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Building a gaming PC; need advice!!! - Page 2

post #41 of 68
[quote]Ok here's a question. Do you know if 2 Athlon XP processors can work together on the Tyan Tiger MP? <hr></blockquote>

Yes they work, i stated this previously in 2 posts responding to you.
post #42 of 68
Ok, sorry about that. I have a lot on my mind right now.....
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post #43 of 68
You are gonna screw up that dude's PC sooo bad.
post #44 of 68
Why do you say that?
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post #45 of 68
Because I wanted to give you a hard time.

That's all.

Have fun!
post #46 of 68
about that sytem not starting up. first, did you get any beeps at all, or just nothing?

second, have you tried removing every single card, resetting the CMOS (flip on the power switch then to drain the capacitors) and then trying again?

i've had weird stuff happen to machines before where they wouldn't boot for no reason. turned out taking out all the cards, resetting etc. and they would suddenly work fine.

never quite did figure out why....

and yeah, that dual athlon system is going to be really, really messed up by the time he's done. he he, sounds like my younger cousin who's just getting into building PC's. knows just enough to be dangerous.
post #47 of 68
2 things, and PC geeks feel free to correct me:
1. Get A Tyan Tiger MP, put one Athlon XP 1800 in it for now. (it will work w/ one processor)

2. When feeling wealthy and self-indulgent, buy another one. They'll be cheaper in all liklihood, too.

Don't bother with Athlon MP's, which are virtually identical, and cost much more.

Yes, Tiger, yes XP's and MP's a basically interchangeable. You can put an MP in a single board, or two XP's on a dual.

Two XP's in a dual will take about a 0.5% performance hit. I believe you can also use dual durons on the same MP board.

All of athlons chips are basically the same chip.
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post #48 of 68
[quote]about that sytem not starting up. first, did you get any beeps at all, or just nothing?

second, have you tried removing every single card, resetting the CMOS (flip on the power switch then to drain the capacitors) and then trying again?

i've had weird stuff happen to machines before where they wouldn't boot for no reason. turned out taking out all the cards, resetting etc. and they would suddenly work fine.

never quite did figure out why....<hr></blockquote>

No beeps. However, I have not hooked up a speaker to it...doesn't the case (after all, it has a case header labeled "speaker") have a crappy little system speaker?

I have resetted the CMOS, and I haven't even bothered installing anything but mobo, CPU, RAM, and Video card. Obviously if I take out my video card I'm not going to get any video, so I haven't tried that.

I've switched the RAM into a different slot, reseated the HSF, reseated the graphics card about twenty times, cleaned the graphics card, etc etc. The motherboard gives the successful boot post code, so I'm pretty sure it's either the graphics or this PSU problem Eskimo is talking about. My new graphics card should be here tomorrow. If it doesn't work, I'm getting a new PSU.
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post #49 of 68
Good thing this is a gaming PC. If you needed it to get work done you would have lost a ton of money by now.

I guess you'd probably make it up down the road with such a fast FPS rate though.

Sorry, couldn't resist the rub.

[ 04-05-2002: Message edited by: seb ]</p>
post #50 of 68
ok, first make sure you have one of those crappy little internal speakers installed. the beeps they give you let you know what's wrong with your machine.

in this case, there are a series of beeps for no video card, so you'd know right away if that was the problem w/o having to send it back to the manf.

second, take out everything and reset the CMOS, making sure to unplug any wires running into the computer.

turn it on (unplugged)

wait about 10-15 min. then turn it off, plug everything back in, and start adding memory and cards.

i have to stress that you really need to check on that internal speaker. often times new computers won't come with one, but they're very useful when trying to diagnose problems when a machine won't boot.

i think no video card is two short beeps, but you might want to check online about that.
post #51 of 68
[quote]i have to stress that you really need to check on that internal speaker. often times new computers won't come with one, but they're very useful when trying to diagnose problems when a machine won't boot.<hr></blockquote>

Will some headphones or such work if I plug them into the headphone jack, or regular PC speakers? If not, then what the hell is the wire from my case labeled "speaker" going to that plugs into the motherboard? If they didn't include a speaker in the case then I'd assume they wouldn't bother making a cable for it.

Also, if there was a beep code indicating a problem, wouldn't it also give a failed POST code?

Thanks for the help!
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post #52 of 68
plugging in a headphone jack won't do anything. it's the wire running from the motherboard to a speaker. it should be in there somewhere, although i'm surprised you can't see it.

you should get at least some beep from it if it's powering up. if nothing else you should get a loooong beep.
post #53 of 68
I just double checked the speaker. It is indeed hooked up. No beeps. I also just got my new GeForce. Does not do a damn thing.

I'm starting to get convinced that it is the PSU. All connections are correct. Unless my mobo or something is fried, that's gotta be it.
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post #54 of 68
I just tried taking the stick of RAM out.

Nothing changed...no beeps or change in the POST code.

It's gotta be the PSU...unless my mobo is busted or something...
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post #55 of 68
CompUSA had their 400W Antec PSU on sale for like $79.99 last I looked.
post #56 of 68
did you follow my above instrustions exactly?

the reason i ask is that a power supply frying is unusual, although not unheard of. you should have at least been able to start it up, then hear it pop and smoke a bit though if it were fried.

unless you follow the above steps exactly it won't work. you can't just take out a RAM stick and think it will start up. you need to reset the CMOS, discharge all electricity in the board etc. for it to make a difference. i've had something very similar happen to me before, and that was how i got it working.

could be a power supply, just not likely. an easy way to test it is to run the MB off another power supply. that would show you real quick if it's the MB or not.

also, when you turn it on, does the PSU turn just a fraction then shut off, or is there absolutly nothing?
post #57 of 68
Thanks for the replies guys.

I tried another few things by the advice of some Arsians. One, I took the CPU/Mobo/RAM/Video card out of the case, and rested it on top of the chassis over some antistatic bagging that was included with the EPoX when I bought it. I also recieved my RMAed video card and tried that, no luck.

I double checked the case headers just in case so I wouldn't miss out on any beeping. They were fine. I checked the BIOS chip to make sure it was securely in. it was fine. Undid the HSF to make sure the Athlon wasn't fried. It was fine. Moved the RAM to a different slot. Resetted the CMOS. Argh! Nothing changes at all.

If I took out a vital component like the RAM, wouldn't it at least give a beep code or a different POST code? That's why I tried it...If the motherboard could figure out something was screwy then it could be considered functioning.

I reseated the video card at least 100 times, tried loosening it a bit, etc. Nothing.

I looked up the boot code again. FFh is defined as one of these things (plus success, I guess, as Eskimo said):

BIOS Loose
Add-On card Loose
Mainboard Problem

I checked the BIOS and it's certainly fine. The video card I have tried so many different ways and with two GTS-Vs that I doubt that could be it.

Another possibility is perhaps my motherboard is dead? That would certainly suck because my 30 Day RMA period from NewEgg ran out three days ago.

Eskimo: Meh, I'm not paying $80 for a 400W PSU...NewEgg has a 350W Sparkle for $45 that should be fine.

One rare possibility: The voltage is set to 220W on my PSU, and therefore is fscking things up. There is a red slider on the PSU to change voltages...however, you can't really tell which it is set to. Plus, setting my PSU to the wrong voltage can't be good.
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post #58 of 68
change the voltage, esp. if that PSU is known to ship at the wrong one. that's by far the most likely possibility at this point. should survive ok, but i'd make sure to take all the cards/ram out of it first.

just to be safe.
post #59 of 68
[quote]but i'd make sure to take all the cards/ram out of it first.<hr></blockquote>

Including the CPU? Ermm, how will I even know it works without the Memory and Video card?
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post #60 of 68
just the CPU. if it works, the fans will spin up. after that, add the ram. boot it.

listen for error beeps.

after that, add the video.

listen for error beeps.

then add a HD.

keep going piece by piece until it works or you know where the problem lies.
post #61 of 68
It's your PSU, like I said I had the exact same probs when I built a computer with that case/power supply. At 220V it will still spin your cpu and chipset fans btw. So don't go by that as a judge. Last time I looked it was clearly marked in white letters what voltage it was set to on the red slider. If you can see 110 then it is set to 110, if you can see 220 then it is set to 220.

[quote]Eskimo: Meh, I'm not paying $80 for a 400W PSU...NewEgg has a 350W Sparkle for $45 that should be fine.

<hr></blockquote>

I mentioned that because CompUSA has a 14 day no questions asked return policy. In otherwise if you suspect it might be the PSU just go grab one of these, plug it in and see if your system boots. At least then you'll know the exact cause for your problems.
post #62 of 68
Thanks for the help guys. I really appreciate it. The motherboard et al are fine. It was the Power supply it was set not on 220, nor on 110...more like something in between. So I got it on 110 without the RAM or video card installed. I get a satisfying beep and a C1 POST code which means it needed some RAM.

Yay! I think. So I put in my RAM, and try it again. "That's funny" I say, why is it giving me this damn FFh POST code again? Oh well, I think, and I put in the video card now.

I boot it up. Same damn FFh POST code. I wait for something to come onto the monitor anyway, when something seems funny. "What the hell is that weird smell?" says I. My heart skips a beat. I sniff the PSU. "Nope, not there" I think. I sniff my HSF. "Hmm, that does indeed smell weird. Maybe because it's the first time the CPU is doing something." And doing something it indeed was. I touch the HS. Feels a little warm, especially considering it's not even putting anything on the screen.

"Oh no!" says I. I shut everything down and hastily unscrew the HSF. There's a miniscule black mark on the die and where it touches the HSF. Yep, that's right, I just fried my beautiful $117 Athlon XP1700+ into a useless piece of silicon that is now bound to become nothing more in life than a keychain.

Well, I don't really have any more questions...I know exactly what has been happening. Now I'm certainly enlightened as to why so many people are lobbying for a thermal protector on the Thuroughbred.

Yeah I'm an idiot. I guess I got so nervous that I might crack the core that I didn't screw my PAL8045 in hard enough. This time I'm gonna buy the cheapest Duron I can so if I fry it I'll only lose $35 or so. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

Oh well. Live and learn, I guess . At least I know what's wrong now.
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post #63 of 68
have you tried to get it working since you think you fried it? it's really not going to hurt anything to have it in there and start it up. you never know, might be tougher than you think.

sorry to hear about the chip if it is toast.

of course, as many people have pointed out in other forums, you can burn through approx. 3 athlons of similar speed vs. P4's and still come out ahead.

[ 04-07-2002: Message edited by: alcimedes ]</p>
post #64 of 68
Yeah, just did. It's completely dead.

The thing that scares me is this: I followed one method of applying Arctic Silver (what you do is you put a little glob on the core, then install the HS on top of it which should spread it out nicely to the edges), and it didn't really work. The AS never smudged to the edge of the core, and and glob in the center was thicker than it should be. I wonder if my mounting screws are a smidgen too tall, preventing my HS from fully contacting the core. I've screwed it in very tightly.
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post #65 of 68
That is the improper method of applying Arctic Silver. Even their webpage will tell you that's not how to do it. Read all about it at <a href="http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm" target="_blank">http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm</a>

Basically you want to apply a small amount of arctic silver to the top of your cpu die and spread it out with a business card or other suitable hard flat surface. The layer should be very thin and exhibit mountain peak type texture when heatsink is mounted and then removed, showing good contact.
post #66 of 68
[quote]hat is the improper method of applying Arctic Silver. Even their webpage will tell you that's not how to do it. Read all about it at <a href="http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm" target="_blank">http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm</a>

Basically you want to apply a small amount of arctic silver to the top of your cpu die and spread it out with a business card or other suitable hard flat surface. The layer should be very thin and exhibit mountain peak type texture when heatsink is mounted and then removed, showing good contact.<hr></blockquote>

*Phew*. I thought that was weird. Well, at least that isn't the way I originally applied it. I did the "dab on HS and CPU then spread with finger through a plastic baggie" method. Don't know about the mountain peaking though. Maybe I need some more, because I rubbed it until there was only a very thin film.
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post #67 of 68
You don't want to use your finger. Your finger doesn't make a good spatula. You want to using something with a flat edge that will scrape excess off. And the flat edge will also spread the compound evenly.

I've always used a cut-off/torn-off piece of an index card.
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post #68 of 68
[quote]You don't want to use your finger. Your finger doesn't make a good spatula. You want to using something with a flat edge that will scrape excess off. And the flat edge will also spread the compound evenly.

I've always used a cut-off/torn-off piece of an index card.<hr></blockquote>

Hehe. Okay, I'll go with a credit card. My index cards have little threads on them...almost hairy. <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />

Is there any way of figuring out where the CPU may not be contacting the HS? What about if I spread the AS3 with the credit card and just see were the AS shows up on the bottom of a clean 8045, no?

[ 04-08-2002: Message edited by: radar1503 ]</p>
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