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Jailbreak hack enables Siri on iPhone 4, 4th-gen iPod touch - Page 4

post #121 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Not trying to downplay it, but really both requests recognize a set of keywords and trigger related actions. "Remind" suggest work with the calendar, "when I get home" will trigger the reminder upon specific GPS coordinates. Similarly, "where is the closest" will read your current location, and "pub" will do an internet search for pubs around that location.

I was referring to the hooks into the OS and apps as opposed to being a stand alone application for information retrieval.
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post #122 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It doesn't matter to you that the back end can't handle 120 million iOS devices at once?

Whether or not the back end can handle any specific amount of devices is pure speculation.

And even if you are correct, why did Apple roll out a feature when it was not ready to support it?

What's up with the data center? That data center has been some kind of heralded and feted holy grail for YEARS. Is it already inadequate, unable to handle the purpose for which it was built?

Execution has been a big problem for Apple for several years now.
post #123 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

No it wasn't. The 3rd party app you refer to and the current implementation of Siri are not the same thing.

As far as this goes, jailbreaking is legal, but unlicensed use of software isn't. Jailbreaking your phoen to use Siri is no different than jailbreaking to side-load pirated apps.

I can't argue legal or not, but jailbreaking is definitely immoral. You agreed to the EULA and then you broke your word when you jailbroke your phone. Anybody that jailbreaks their phone has a problem with ethics.
post #124 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by eehd View Post

These aren't reasons, they are speculations. As the post says, Apple is the only one that knows, and without an explanation, Apple is just asking for people to jailbreak their devices by limiting Siri to the new iPhone. I've never jailbroken any of my previous iPhones, but Apple's nonsense and lack of explanation, might just lead me to jailbreak my iPhone 4.

Don't you realize that Siri is a service that Apple supplies to some of its customers -- currently limited to owners of iPhone 4S devices.

Apple may choose to expand this service to other devices at a later date, or choose not to -- they have no obligation to do so.


Since Siri is partially software running on Apple's servers, this software could easily deny service to any device... but more specifically any JailBroken device (even an iP4S).


Is it so difficult to understand... the guy who provides the service -- gets to set the rules.


Just because you think you are entitled -- does not mean that you are.


What about all those Win, BB, Droid handset owners? Aren't they entitled Siri too? I'm sure someone could write a handset app for Android phones that could connect with Apple's Siri servers...

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post #125 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

I can't argue legal or not, but jailbreaking is definitely immoral. You agreed to the EULA and then you broke your word when you jailbroke your phone. Anybody that jailbreaks their phone has a problem with ethics.

*snort*

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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #126 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Yeah, I've been calling bullshit on this 4S exclusivity thing. It's software. There is no reason the 4 can't run it. This is clearly Apple's attempt to make people plunk down cash for a new phone so they can get the feature.

Ever shop for and buy a new car? TV? Anything? Why?
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post #127 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Still doesn't explain why they killed the existing Siri app that did run on iPhone 4.

That's easy! All the Siri people are working on the new, superior Siri app/service and integrating it into iOS (and possibly Lion) as well as interfacing Apple's core iapps and services.

Likely they are investigating ways of opening Siri to 3rd-party apps and developers.


We are on chapter 1, page 1 of changing the way we interact with technology.

Would you prefer Apple spending their precious Siri resources supporting the past or inventing the future?

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post #128 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

I don't think Siri is important enough to push down to lower end devices. It's nice in some situations like setting up alarms, but other than that I think typing is still faster and Siri asks to confirm too often.

Actually asking to confirm reminds me of MS asking to save settings after changing them (whereas Macs just change settings as soon as you change them). Get rid of confirmations and Siri becomes faster than typing, but by that time we will all have a 4S or a 5 in our hands and it won't be a huge deal.

I see this as a possible enhancement -- something like this:


you: "Siri, don't respond, I'll alert you when I want your attention"

you: "Siri: Send an email to Tim Cook subject iPhone 4S Sales Projections"

you: dictating an email "Tim comma new line new line Here are the the projections I mentioned..."
...
you: "Siri: include that numbers chart named 4Q 2011 iPhone Sales Projections"

you: "enlarge it 25%?
...
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post #129 of 168
<Mr. Burns voice> Excellent. </Mr. Burns voice>
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post #130 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

They've been crippling products since the 80s.

Huh. Strange, then, that that's pretty much the reason for ALL of their success.

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post #131 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

We are on chapter 1, page 1 of changing the way we interact with technology.




Voice command is a 20th century technology, as is AI. We are far past being in the first chapter.

More like Volume III: "Early Attempts at Profiting from AI: From Laboratory to Marketing Tool".
post #132 of 168
Oh I agree with you. I think Apple has the right to keep Siri off the new iPhone 4S. I also think Apple has reasons other then selling the new iPhone to do so.

Another poster though suggested jailbreaking should be illegal because some people are going to use jailbroken phone to use Siri against Apple's wishes.

I support Apple's desire to keep Siri tied to the iPhone 4S. I also support my right to jailbreak my phone. Though the jailbreaking probably shouldn't extent to allowing a jailbroken phone to use Apple's servers for a service Apple doesn't desire users to use.

QUOTE=Paul94544;1978190]One of the first things SJ said when he launched the original iPhone was and I'm paraphrasing " it makes more sense to have software keyboard than a hardware keyboard, so that you don't need to buy a new phone to get a new feature" I interpret this to mean that as more and better UI's are developed they will be available on older hardware.

So logically it makes no sense for Apple to limit Siri to only newer hardware unless they have real technical reasons not to like performance and so on. I do not believe Apple plays the game of obsessively keeping technology from users to coerce them to buying new hardware. They have generally made the hard ware better and do tend to make backwards compatible changes in the OS to as many of the existing phones as possible.[/QUOTE]
post #133 of 168
Until the BETA is over, no one knows what Apple is going to do with Siri. They have not confirmed that the 4S is the only device that will get it once they exit beta.

It is more than likely it will officially show up on the iPhone 4 and the iPad 2... other devices aren't as sure-fire.

Give them a few weeks/months to develop and test drivers for the other devices and scale up the back-end.
post #134 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

So Siri will replace wives?

She doesn't exactly have a mouth....
post #135 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It's too bad Siri isn't more intelligent about the local settings. It would be great to say to Siri "Minimize display brightness" or "Disable Push email for the next two hours."

edit: Now that think about it there are a lot of time consuming tasks I do with my iPhone that would be great if I could state what I want done instead of going through all those touch-based steps. Creating Reminders and iCal events are a great example of how a digital personal assistance can save a lot of time.

Yeah! I think they'll open it up to more Apple apps then to 3rd-party apps -- once they gather more data on what/how people are using Siri...


Or for the new Android PA:

you: "Andy-Andy: please root my phone, install the latest back-release of gingerbread and randomly rearrange the widgets on my home screen"
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post #136 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Or for the new Android PA:

you: "Andy-Andy: please root my phone, install the latest back-release of gingerbread and randomly rearrange the widgets on my home screen"

You forgot, "Delete my text history at least once a month, forget to quit processes, leak RAM and reboot randomly when I'm on a call."
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post #137 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Of course you know where this is headed. Full on human-like in appearance robot assistants who eventually will not obey your commands, not because they didn't understand what you wanted but because they have their own agenda.

Here on AI, we call them troids.
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post #138 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

See this is where I disagree somewhat. Several articles/blogs of Siri complained that you couldn't open apps directly with Siri. I'm not so sure that make much sense. That's too "computery" like telling your iPhone to open "Settings' then saying "now go to General." You typically don't talk that way to people less you're teaching them how to navigate, but Siri should know how to navigate. So instead of saying "open Maps" or "open Messages" you should just tell it what you want it to do and it will open the appropriate app for that task, as it does for Maps and Messages now.

Yes, Exactly!

you: "Siri: text my wife I love you and I miss you"

you: "Siri: send it"


not


you: "Siri: open the messages app"

you: "Siri: select new message"

you: "Siri: find lucy"

you: "Siri: select lucy"

you: "Siri: skip the subject"

you: "I love you and I miss you"

you: "Siri: send it"


"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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post #139 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

So Siri will replace wives?

No... Siri listens to you... then attempts to be responsive...


Siri: "You don't love me any more"

you: "Siri: yes I do... how can I show you?"

Siri: "um... not that way -- I have a headache"

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post #140 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Well ok but there maybe several aps that could be used so Siri could ask as she does now when you say call someone with several numbers. Having said that I'd like to be able to say open Pandora and play my Gordon Lightfoot playlist instead of Siri assuming I want to use my iTunes library for example. But heck, who could have imagined this discussion at all a few years back eh?


Siri: "Sundown, you better take care If I find you bin creepin' round my back stairs"

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post #141 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I see your point, there are clearly limitations to how Siri would know what app you mean to use without referencing it directly, but I think in those cases the app opening would be the action, not just a starting point.

I can see Apple creating Siri APIs to further its usability and to mine even more data on how we use our devices, but this seems like a difficult thing to build out. I'm not expecting that to be an option for 3rd-party apps for least several years.

Ahh... the proven technology already exists and is implemented in OS X -- just hasn't been ported to iOS, yet!
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post #142 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

He's completely right though. We've had accurate voice recognition on phones for years.

Siri is only doing a few things differently. This includes:
-Contextual commands with a little more variety than the competition. Eg. "wake me in one hour"
-Some funny responses when you ask it weird questions
-Deep integration with system applications.


Other than that, Siri is nothing new. This should by no means be a selling point for anyone to buy a phone.

Ask it "How to tie a tie"
It returns with a google search. Just with a different interface. It will not actually tell you.

Aside from the commands that interact directly with the OS, that's all it really is. It's a Google search that presents the information neatly.

The voice technology is not new, or any more accurate than other current voice detection software. All the phone is doing is converting your voice to text. The text is sent off to Apple's servers to be processed, and for a command to be sent back. There are trigger words that define the context. Eg. "where is", "wake me up", "what's the weather", "play this album".

Is it currently the best voice command software on a phone? Yes.
Is this amazing new technology? No. But props to apple for integrating it deeply and making it easy and intuitive. But in the end, Siri is either controlling a limited amount of system apps, or it's doing a Google search and displaying the most relevant info based on your search

The difference is one of scale and opportunity.

When Siri is actively running on hundreds of millions of iDevices, and being monitored for accuracy, performance, unfulfillable requests (in multiple languages) -- it will likely generate a greater mine of information than all the prior efforts combined.

This will provide the opportunity to determine what is being done well, done badly or not done at all -- and too flesh out Siri to be even better.

If Apple exposes Siri's capabilities to 3rd-party apps and developers... we will have hundreds of thousands of talented, knowledgeable technical people testing and contributing to this rather specialized subset of AI.

I think that Siri is bigger than a single class of device, a predefined set of tasks -- or a single company.

Siri will become generic!

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post #143 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Yes, Exactly!

you: "Siri: text my wife I love you and I miss you"

you: "Siri: send it"


not


you: "Siri: open the messages app"

you: "Siri: select new message"

you: "Siri: find lucy"

you: "Siri: select lucy"

you: "Siri: skip the subject"

you: "I love you and I miss you"

you: "Siri: send it"



Ah, a much better example. I can see some fringe cases for how simply opening the app would be all that is needed, but I have a hard time imagining Apple releasing an API for a small group or users with a high chance the majority could abuse it.

It's funny how now we get people saying how Siri is nothing special, nothing new, nothing that wasn't already available and completely obvious.

If I understand Siri correctly, a single Siri input starts with speech-to text (licensed from Nuance), then Siri's NLP (natural language processing) of the intended meaning, then converting that intended meaning to commands that are then made into specific queries outside of Siri that are then recreated in the most human readable form possible, or executed locally then displayed for you to confirm, and finally text-to-speech. All of these technologies have been around for decades, especially text-to-speech, but I can't think of one that ever been this accurate, useful or seamless. But it's all just obvious...
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post #144 of 168
Imagine this with Siri: http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-...with-push-ups/

Watch the video. It's a little creepy.

(via NasserAE)
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post #145 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post

All of those phones will be banned for life!

I haven't gotten through the comments, so it may have been stated already, although I'm not planning to wade through the fan boy hate.

It would seem to me this is a possibility. If Apple only wants this on 4S phones, my understanding was Siri goes out to the Apple DC. If that communication carries with it the model, it would seem easy enough to deny traffic from non-4S models and if it carried with ie the IMEI or other identifying info, it could disable the service or other Apple provided services. The latter may introduce privacy concerns and a legal battle with consumers it doesn't want to take up, but the first seems easily doable.

I'm not for it either way, but I believe it would be entirely possible and within their rights as the DC host to do so.
post #146 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I think this is the first time Apple has put beta software front and center in an ad campaign. Maybe they are just trying to deflect any criticism of the lack of functionality by calling it beta. In fact I cannot recall any other instance when Apple released beta software publicly. This is clearly version 1.0.

When Google makes a general public software release and calls it beta, Apple fans joke how lame that is. But now, it seems they are ok with it when Apple does it.

Perhaps because Google leaves their software in "beta" for decades. Google News was in beta for at least 3-4 years.
post #147 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

...
If I understand Siri correctly, a single Siri input starts with speech-to text (licensed from Nuance), then Siri's NLP (natural language processing) of the intended meaning, then converting that intended meaning to commands that are then made into specific queries outside of Siri that are then recreated in the most human readable form possible, or executed locally then displayed for you to confirm, and finally text-to-speech. All of these technologies have been around for decades, especially text-to-speech, but I can't think of one that ever been this accurate, useful or seamless. But it's all just obvious...

It's far from obvious; I didn't really understand what exactly Siri does until I watched Tom Gruber's presentation (I posted the link previously). Sure, the idea of what we want a virtual personal assistant to achieve is old, but the actual implementation of the language processing is novel, and has taken years of research.

Add to that that only a few years back we didn't have mobile processing power of today's magnitude, that GPS technology was not as widespread, that wireless internet connectivity was far from ubiquitous, even the internet itself isn't that old, and it only became conveniently accessible after Google's search engine... So no, it's not obvious at all -- at least it's not obvious how to achieve the effect, other than having a real assistant to do the things for you...
post #148 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I think this is the first time Apple has put beta software front and center in an ad campaign. Maybe they are just trying to deflect any criticism of the lack of functionality by calling it beta. In fact I cannot recall any other instance when Apple released beta software publicly. This is clearly version 1.0.

When Google makes a general public software release and calls it beta, Apple fans joke how lame that is. But now, it seems they are ok with it when Apple does it.

Google doesn't sell its products, so nobody has any right to complain. If you don't like being a beta tester, don't use it...

I believe Siri's "beta" label comes not as much from the software not being of a "release" quality, but rather because for now it's rather USA-centric. I actually doubt that it will have matching features within a year in half of Europe, let alone the world. But then again, the market penetration of Apple will likely remain considerably higher in the US than elsewhere.
post #149 of 168
One of the things not really discussed...

Siri is new! Sending all requests (an ever-increasing number) to the DC for analysis will allow Apple to quantify:

-- what type of requests are made most often
-- how those requests are worded
-- the followup request to verify the success of the initial request

It is likely, IMO, that Apple will try to concentrate on the high-volume/traffic requests by refining and tweaking the processing -- to the point where they can quickly recognize patterns (maybe voice prints) and phrasing that comprise these requests.

Then, they can start a parallel thread for the requests -- to test these refinements against the results of current processing.

This could be done on an aggregate level -- or individual requests tied to a specific device/user. I assume that the user would be asked to opt-in for the individual processing.


At some point, if there is a difference Siri could ask:

Siri: "here are the ways I understand what you requested: 1) ..... 2).... 3) neither"

The user would indicate the correct response.

Ultimately, for a select group of requests -- the detection and processing of these requests could be migrated back to the device as kind of a quick filter (or test) to see if the specific request could be resolved on the device, bypassing the server. Anything that fails the quick test is sent to the server, as normal


This would be an ongoing process -- as the devices become more powerful; Siri recognizes more requests and voice patterns; and Siri gains the ability to perform more actions.

This is almost like a parent-child or instructor-student relationship -- where, over time the knowledge/capability is passed down to where the student outperforms the teacher... so we just add a few more teachers and subjects... ad infinitum.

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post #150 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

And the Siri servers already started buckle under the strain of 4 million iPhone 4S users in 3 days. These asshat trolls never think what would happen if Apple rolled out Siri to 120 million iDevices at once.

Good post. That pretty much sums up the situation.

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post #151 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Watch the video. It's a little creepy.

VERY creepy but interesting.

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post #152 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Huh. Strange, then, that that's pretty much the reason for ALL of their success.

My first Mac, a IIsi, was downclocked intentionally so as not to compete with the IIfx. But there are many more examples of artificial product line differentiation. Of course there is nothing wrong with it per se, and yes you are right it's allowed massive profits for Apple. Most other computer companies do it, too.

But this thing with Siri just hurts. It's not the typical you lose a few Mhz from one computer to another. I would love to use it on my iPad 2.

However lots of people here have made a good point, it is in Beta. I imagine when they will eventually release it at least for iPhone 4 and iPad 2.
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post #153 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

But this thing with Siri just hurts. It's not the typical you lose a few Mhz from one computer to another. I would love to use it on my iPad 2.

However lots of people here have made a good point, it is in Beta. I imagine when they will eventually release it at least for iPhone 4 and iPad 2.

That's what I believe, as well.

Heck, if they can release it for the iPhone 4, they can release it for the FIRST iPad, too. I'm not upset about it being limited to the 4S right now, but if they do decide to do a wider rollout and DON'T bring it to the original iPad, boy howdy, I'll be upset.

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post #154 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That's what I believe, as well.

Heck, if they can release it for the iPhone 4, they can release it for the FIRST iPad, too. I'm not upset about it being limited to the 4S right now, but if they do decide to do a wider rollout and DON'T bring it to the original iPad, boy howdy, I'll be upset.

Me too, Buffalo Bob... and all you boyz and girlz in the peanut gallery!
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post #155 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

Surprised the Apple apologists haven't come out yet, defending Apple's right to artificially restrict Siri to only the latest model, only to add a tiny bit more value to an otherwise underwhelming upgrade. "4 Steve," indeed. We all know this section would be full of insults and denigrations if Microsoft pulled this same crap with the latest Mango update.

1) Your's was the first comment -- so no apologists yet. Congratulations on first troll as well.

2) The 4S was of course and underwhelming upgrade -- it was intended to be just a MINOR upgrade with some costs shaved and a change in parts sourcing. If you hung out here more, you'd know this.

3) Putting their AI software on a particular upgraded device MIGHT have been to promote the sale - however, this being the first release of a groundbreaking new technology (granted, more of an implementation of various techs floating around for years), Apple MIGHT have wanted a limited release to work out the bugs and make sure it didn't BREAK.

If they had allowed it on the iPhone 3 -- and it garbled commands, you'd be here to point out how Lame the software is, and how they take credit for reintroducing other people's software done better elsewhere.

>> Otherwise, I'm sort of happy it has been hacked, so that I can test it out. Apple sometimes can annoy us with their need for profits.

All those open source peripherals I use with my XBox are great as well -- oh yeah, after 3 years in the wild I can network it without the $99 official device. High five anyone?

... lets' PLEASE not devolve into a tit-for-tat rant on closed or open or free vs profit. I think Apple has been fairly good at releasing things on various "Mac" platforms over time. But I appreciate them not hindering future products supporting the bast device forever. I can be ANNOYED Siri isn't out for my Mac.


... what I'd REALLY like is an emulator to run iPad/iPhone apps on my laptop because my kids never let me near the iPad since they got their hands on it.


>> Suffice to say; if Apple sucks so much -- why do you CARE that they don't have Siri on your device?
post #156 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) If you are locked into a contract why does it even matter?

2) The entitlement you people have is unreal. If Apple was trying to force you to update your current device by making it appear inferior why would they give you any update to the device, mucless going back three generations for the same basic OS. They'd just follow their competition's lead and never release a major update.

1) Because I'm locked into a contract is the reason why it matters. The problem isn't hardware related, it is software, which the upgrade is free.

2) I expect software to be the same for all the devices that are capable of running it. If Siri is limited to the US, it isn't about hardware, it is about creating a tiered customer base. The iPhone 4 is now inferior to the iPhone 4S because of the software.
post #157 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by eehd View Post

I expect software to be the same for all the devices that are capable of running it.

Since Apple's Siri servers (I remind you, still in Beta) can't serve 120 million iOS-based at once your solution is to A) Not include Siri in any device for a gradual rollout or B) to include Siri in all devices even if means that no one can use it and Siri looks like a failure on a scale that towers over the MobileMe open release. I'm glad you don't work for Apple.

Quote:
The iPhone 4 is now inferior to the iPhone 4S because of the software.

Are we forgetting something? Um, hardware?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #158 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Since Apple's Siri servers (I remind you, still in Beta) can't serve 120 million iOS-based at once your solution is to A) Not include Siri in any device for a gradual rollout or B) to include Siri in all devices even if means that no one can use it and Siri looks like a failure on a scale that towers over the MobileMe open release. I'm glad you don't work for Apple.


Are we forgetting something? Um, hardware?

Apple never releases beta software. This is highly unusual for Apple. Wait until the jailbreak and you'll see that it has nothing to do with hardware.
post #159 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by eehd View Post

Apple never releases beta software.

Abject lie

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone exists], it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
post #160 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by eehd View Post

Apple never releases beta software. This is highly unusual for Apple. Wait until the jailbreak and you'll see that it has nothing to do with hardware.

Fact: Apple release Betas all the time.

Fact: The iPhone 4S is superior to the iPhone 4 in HW.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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