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Jailbreak hack enables Siri on iPhone 4, 4th-gen iPod touch - Page 2

post #41 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by sm72jj View Post

Since Siri and Camera update were the only distinct upgrade on iPhone 4s, Apple might come out aggressive on this issue.

Siri and the camera were the only distinct upgrades?

I suppose that's true - if you ignore the CPU that's more than twice as fast. And the GPU that's 7 times as fast. And twice the max storage capacity. And the improved antenna. And world phone capability. And Bluetooth 4.0. And longer talk time. And probably a few more things I've forgotten.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Still doesn't explain why they killed the existing Siri app that did run on iPhone 4.

So? First, do you know that it's the same version? Maybe Apple added new capabilities. Second, perhaps it didn't run well enough to meet Apple's standards, particularly when other things are active.

Furthermore, even if it DID run just fine on the iPhone 4, that's Apple's choice. If you don't like it, you're free to develop your own phone and software.
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post #42 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by realitycheck69 View Post

Only Apple can increase the price of an app to $199 and call it magical.

Why do ridiculous insane crackpots always choose names like "reality check?"

Don't you see the irony of picking a name like that and then posting all the looney garbage that you do?

You should change your name to "crack-smoking-lunatic100."
post #43 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

This is quite irresponsible. Apple will be growing server capacity inline with the number of 4S sold. If this hack becomes widespread it could ruin the experience for genuine, paying customers.

EXACTLY. If you don't like it, then there's always Android. Where you can get gingerbread on your nice G1.....oh, wait.
post #44 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

And the Siri servers already starte buckle under the strain of 4 million iPhone 4S users in 3 days. These asshat trolls never think what would happen if Apple rolled out Siri to 120 million iDevices at once.

As for Cash907's comment on Mango it's been for how long now and I still haven't had the update pushed to me. Apparently it's ok for MS to do a systematic and controlled release, but not Apple.

You were the one defending it to the DEATH saying that there was just no way the iphone 4 could handle Siri...

Anything you say in this thread I won't be able to take seriously.

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post #45 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post

EXACTLY. If you don't like it, then there's always Android. Where you can get gingerbread on your nice G1.....oh, wait.

People don't have G1s though. They're 3 years old now.

This means that you have an option to get a free Android phone running the newest release of Android.

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post #46 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

People don't have G1s though. They're 3 years old now.

This means that you have an option to get a free Android phone running the newest release of Android.

What are you evne talking about. You're not making any sense AT ALL. What does that have to do with anything? Yeah, G1 was the first Android phone....what the hell is the free thing?
post #47 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

So? First, do you know that it's the same version? Maybe Apple added new capabilities. Second, perhaps it didn't run well enough to meet Apple's standards, particularly when other things are active.

You are not making sense. Perhaps this, perhaps that. It was a free app so they are under no obligation to keep it running but it would have been nice to treat it like the iDisk policy and let it run until the two year contract expiration. Instead it makes it look like they killed it to twist your arm into buying a new phone and pay an early termination fee.

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post #48 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

This is quite irresponsible. Apple will be growing server capacity inline with the number of 4S sold. If this hack becomes widespread it could ruin the experience for genuine, paying customers.

Exactly my first thought and I agree totally. This is asinine.

Given it is mostly done server side I have to assume Apple can sort out what is an iPhone 4s and block the rest if they wish though. I have little doubt more devices will gain Siri as the server capacity grows.
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post #49 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Given it is mostly done server side I have to assume Apple can sort out what is an iPhone 4s and block the rest if they wish though. I have little doubt more devices will gain Siri as the server capacity grows.

Can't wait to see those overage fees for all the data.

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post #50 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaroonMushroom View Post

You were the one defending it to the DEATH saying that there was just no way the iphone 4 could handle Siri...

Anything you say in this thread I won't be able to take seriously.

1) I seem to recall you saying Siri required no processing whatsoever. I said it clearly does. I was right.

2) Siri was already available as an app for previous iPhones so saying that it wasn't technically possible to work at some level is not something I've ever said or would ever say. I said and still say there are clear logistical, marketing, and potential technical reasons Apple did it nor will include Siri for previous iDevices. With two years of Apple-owned Siri development and a completely different requirement for minimal service requirements should be considered by anyone with half a brain.
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post #51 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) I seem to recall you saying Siri required no processing whatsoever. I said it clearly does. I was right.

Siri uses very little processing power - the majority of the work goes into UI and dictation. Dictation is not as processing intensive as you would think (it understands or it doesn't, it doesn't "think" about what you said to try and understand what it doesn't initially). The majority of the work goes into understanding what your text means, and this is handled by Apple.

Quote:
Given it is mostly done server side I have to assume Apple can sort out what is an iPhone 4s and block the rest if they wish though. I have little doubt more devices will gain Siri as the server capacity grows.

This is what Apple does now. When an iPhone 4S is activated it gains a special authorization token that allows Siri's servers to respond, which is saved to the device. The examples shown use a valid auth token which makes the servers think the commands are coming from a 4S - this is why this method is not something to be mass distributed.
post #52 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyy View Post

Siri uses very little processing power - the majority of the work goes into UI and dictation. Dictation is not as processing intensive as you would think (it understands or it doesn't, it doesn't "think" about what you said to try and understand what it doesn't initially). The majority of the work goes into understanding what your text means, and this is handled by Apple.


This is what Apple does now. When an iPhone 4S is activated it gains a special authorization token that allows Siri's servers to respond, which is saved to the device. The examples shown use a valid auth token which makes the servers think the commands are coming from a 4S - this is why this method is not something to be mass distributed.

When you ask or command Siri to answer a question or do some task does the recording of your voice get sent to Apple for analysis or does Siri figure out if the request can be understood locally on the device and then send a text based request to the server. I'm curious because it would greatly affect the amount of data sent over the network. I thought that it sent the audio to the server.

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post #53 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

So? First, do you know that it's the same version? Maybe Apple added new capabilities. Second, perhaps it didn't run well enough to meet Apple's standards, particularly when other things are active.

Furthermore, even if it DID run just fine on the iPhone 4, that's Apple's choice. If you don't like it, you're free to develop your own phone and software.

I can make a case for and against Siri eventually coming to all devices running iOS 5.0. The tipping point all depends on how important is the data mining it produces.

There are several things I have yet to read about Siri:
  1. How does it compare to the old standalone app in reliability.
  2. How does it compare to the old standalone app in speed.
  3. How does it compare to the old standalone app in versatility.
  4. Since it's systmewide, how does it compare to the old standalone app in data used per user.
  5. Since it's systmewide, how does it compare to the old standalone app in processing per user.
  6. Is any of Siri processed locally like in the previous Voice Control for iPhone for making a call or playing music, or is all processing now sent server-side for processing.
  7. What exactly is that new A5 feature Phil Schiller talked about during the Siri demo?

Clearly there are good technical and logistical reasons for Siri not being pushed to 120 million iDevices at once as we've during the first weekend, but there are clearly marketing reasons why you'd put it on the flagship product first. Anyone who crys foul because Apple didn't roll of the Beta to only new iPod Touches or new sales of 3GS's are just asshats who either don't understand the simplest fundamentals of business and/or just angry little trolls that hate anything successful. Let them had their inferior Speaktoit on the Android Market while claiming it's better because it's not owned by the evil Apple empire.
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post #54 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyy View Post

Siri uses very little processing power - the majority of the work goes into UI and dictation. Dictation is not as processing intensive as you would think (it understands or it doesn't, it doesn't "think" about what you said to try and understand what it doesn't initially). The majority of the work goes into understanding what your text means, and this is handled by Apple.

How do you think "Apple" figures out all these audio bytes?! THAT ALL HAS TO BE PROCESSED!! There is a huge amount of processing involved with Siri. Just because it's not's not local doesn't mean it's not being processed. It's not being sent to Hogwarts so Dumbledorf can put a translation spell on it. No actual magic is involved with breakthrough technology.


Edit: When you and others refer to Siri as requiring no processing are you thinking about Siri as just the nifty little icon on your iPhone when you long-press the Home Button? I certainly don't, and neither should anyone else. It's an ecosystem technology and should be considered as such.
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post #55 of 168
I find it funny when this crap comes out, people 'defend' Apple and say it's their company. Anyways, why don't people get mad because My Wii discs break when I put it into my NES slot?
post #56 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

How do you think "Apple" figures out all these audio bytes?! THAT ALL HAS TO BE PROCESSED!! There is a huge amount of processing involved with Siri. Just because it's not's not local doesn't mean it's not being processed. It's not being sent to Hogwarts so Dumbledorf can put a translation spell on it. No actual magic is involved with breakthrough technology.


Edit: When you and others refer to Siri as requiring no processing are you thinking about Siri as just the nifty little icon on your iPhone when you long-press the Home Button? I certainly don't, and neither should anyone else. It's an ecosystem technology and should be considered as such.

Where are you getting this idea that Siri uses huge amounts of processing power? Do you understand how Siri works at all? Or even do you have any experience with speech-to-text programming, text analyzers, or programming at all? Or are you just blinding guessing it does because it just seems like it would?

Sure, it's processing power, which takes machines and effort to handle - especially from millions of iPhone users, but do not forget that Apple is sitting on over $75 billion in cash reserves and processing information is very very cheap. One investment in a server, which is also cheap, and you have an *infinite ability to process with that machine. (* excluding maintaining and care, which are extremely cheap as well).


To be honest, I'm more wow'ed by Apple's ability to handle the iCloud services over Siri's load. Apple was having problems with Siri's servers, but that was because they underestimated the usage that would come in. With preparation and access to an inane they can be ready for anything.
post #57 of 168
Let the hackers add Siri to the iPad 2 then Mission Accomplished!
post #58 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyy View Post

Where are you getting this idea that Siri uses huge amounts of processing power? Do you understand how Siri works at all? Or even do you have any experience with speech-to-text programming, text analyzers, or programming at all? Or are you just blinding guessing it does because it just seems like it would?

Sure, it's processing power, which takes machines and effort to handle - especially from millions of iPhone users, but do not forget that Apple is sitting on over $75 billion in cash reserves and processing information is very very cheap. One investment in a server, which is also cheap, and you have an *infinite ability to process with that machine. (* excluding maintaining and care, which are extremely cheap as well).


To be honest, I'm more wow'ed by Apple's ability to handle the iCloud services over Siri's load. Apple was having problems with Siri's servers, but that was because they underestimated the usage that would come in. With preparation and access to an inane they can be ready for anything.

1) Yes, understanding human language is process intensive.

2) No, there is no infinite abili to process... as seen by the server issues with the weekend launch of the 4S.

3) you acknowdlge the problems with Siri's servers and "underestimated" usage but you say that processing is infinite and Apple has (rephrasing) an excessive amount of money... Yet you don't think this was an issue with processing all the Siri requests. Too many requests in RAM? (silly) Too much bandwidth for Siri requests? (possible but far from the most likely reason)
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post #59 of 168
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe Apple ever stated that the 4S hardware spec upgrade was needed for Siri to function or perform optimally. On the other hand, I don't believe they said it was being limited to the 4S due to Apple server limitations or other non-hardware issues. They could have precluded or mitigated the inevitable porting to other devices by stating why Siri was being limited to the 4S.
post #60 of 168
I fully expect that the limitation to the 4s was solely for marketing purposes to push sales of the new phone. If they make it sound cool enough, it won't just be off-contract people switching, but also people buying a new unlocked one and selling their old 4.

I also fully expect that once that initial push dies down, that Apple will coincidentally "finalize" Siri 1.0 and "discover" that it will work on other iOS devices afterall, and make it available to them, for a price.
post #61 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

Yes, Apple owes the world a complete explanation of all their strategic planning for software and hardware. And if we shoot ourselves in the foot doing work arounds, it's their fault.

Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post

I hope this post was sarcastic......

Sorry, forgot my sarcastic emoticon. Thought it was outrageous on the face to avoid such confusion. But considering the posts of the 'droid trolls that infest this place, I can understand your problem.
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post #62 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) Yes, understanding human language is process intensive.

2) No, there is no infinite abili to process... as seen by the server issues with the weekend launch of the 4S.

3) you acknowdlge the problems with Siri's servers and "underestimated" usage but you say that processing is infinite and Apple has (rephrasing) an excessive amount of money... Yet you don't think this was an issue with processing all the Siri requests. Too many requests in RAM? (silly) Too much bandwidth for Siri requests? (possible but far from the most likely reason)

I'm going to assume that you are not familiar with any kind of programming nor how Siri functions.
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post #63 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

There may be all sorts of reasons why it will not perform optimally. Apple is not interested in "we can make this stumble along" kind of performance. There may be a very solid technical reason why the 4S is needed (or why the 4 will not work well under all conditions).

Yeah, but it's much more fun to yell "Apple is evil."
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post #64 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyy View Post

I'm going to assume that you are not familiar with any kind of programming nor how Siri functions.
Please see: www.jeffwofford.com/?p=817

So you think Siri requests are sent to a server for shits and giggles? Awesome logic!
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post #65 of 168
Putting Siri on the existing base of iOS devices upgraded to iOS 5 would have been server suicide.

It's a beta product, let them iron it out a bit, and if it's not rolled out to other platforms, then you can gripe about it...
post #66 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Why do ridiculous insane crackpots always choose names like "reality check?"

Don't you see the irony of picking a name like that and then posting all the looney garbage that you do?

You should change your name to "crack-smoking-lunatic100."


Mods:

This is WAY over the line. Please discipline this guy.
post #67 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple's first television ad for the iPhone 4S focused exclusively on Siri serves as further evidence that the company plans to, at least at first, rely on the service to distinguish the device from its predecessor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esoom View Post

It's a beta product, let them iron it out a bit, and if it's not rolled out to other platforms, then you can gripe about it...



I think this is the first time Apple has put beta software front and center in an ad campaign. Maybe they are just trying to deflect any criticism of the lack of functionality by calling it beta. In fact I cannot recall any other instance when Apple released beta software publicly. This is clearly version 1.0.

When Google makes a general public software release and calls it beta, Apple fans joke how lame that is. But now, it seems they are ok with it when Apple does it.

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post #68 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I think this is the first time Apple has put beta software front and center in an ad campaign. Maybe they are just trying to deflect any criticism of the lack of functionality by calling it beta. In fact I cannot recall any other instance when Apple released beta software publicly. This is clearly version 1.0.

When Google makes a general public software release and calls it beta, Apple fans joke how lame that is. But now, it seems they are ok with it when Apple does it.

Apple TV v1 was practically a beta concept, hardware and software. Instead of the word beta Steve used Hobby.
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post #69 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I think this is the first time Apple has put beta software front and center in an ad campaign. Maybe they are just trying to deflect any criticism of the lack of functionality by calling it beta. In fact I cannot recall any other instance when Apple released beta software publicly. This is clearly version 1.0.

When Google makes a general public software release and calls it beta, Apple fans joke how lame that is. But now, it seems they are ok with it when Apple does it.

It is pretty unique, but I can see why they did it. There is just no way to crack natural language processing without a hefty amount of real world usage. Even with Nuance's support for more than 44 languages and dialects spoken around the world Siri only supports 5: German, French and three dialects of English. On top of that there is limited Siri functionality outside the US.

I see Siri like the original iPhone back in 2007. It was a revolutionary product that changed the way the entire cellular industry worked. Not just how smartphones were to be made, but caused a dramatic shift in both which people bought smartphones and carrier control of the handset. it had lots of limitations but it was brilliant and as only going to get better from there.

Jump ahead 4 years and I think Siri (as well as similar services on all other platforms) will be a very important part of our lives.
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post #70 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Can't wait to see those overage fees for all the data.

I don't believe for one second use of Siri will add to your iPhone bill.
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post #71 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Apple TV v1 was practically a beta concept, hardware and software. Instead of the word beta Steve used Hobby.

But it was not the focus of a TV ad campaign as far as I know.

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post #72 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I don't believe for one second use of Siri will add to your iPhone bill.

I am still wondering if it sends the audio of your voice to Apple or not. If it does, that is a lot of data.

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post #73 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Apple TV v1 was practically a beta concept, hardware and software. Instead of the word beta Steve used Hobby.

That was back in 2006 when it was introduced with a 1GHz Pentium processor running Mac OS X Tiger, I think. it was the best Media Extender appliance I played with, bar none, but that was a long time ago in computer and Apple history. That was before the ARMv7 chips, Apple's investment in Imagination, and their unveiling of the efficient fork of iOS (then iPhone OS) from Mac OS X.
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post #74 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyy View Post

I'm going to assume that you are not familiar with any kind of programming nor how Siri functions.
Please see: www.jeffwofford.com/?p=817

That was an interesting read, although it seemed to me the author was doing a lot of guessing, not unlike many of us here. Here's another link to a fantastic presentation by Tom Gruber about Siri:

http://vimeo.com/5424527

I recommend everyone interested in artificial intelligence to watch it -- it opened my eyes to the true nature of Siri, which is much more exciting than mere voice recognition, text to speech, or canned jokes.

More on topic, those using the hack to run Siri on unauthorized devices are doing something illegal, since the software is not freely distributable. This is also likely to cause strain on the back-end servers, so Apple would be looking for a way to curtail it...
post #75 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It is pretty unique, but I can see why they did it. There is just no way to crack natural language processing without a hefty amount of real world usage.

Which is why Google ran their GOOG411 service for a year before releasing their voice recognition apps and they shut the service down once they had enough data. That's Google for you. And people thought it was a convenient service for consumers not realizing they were being used.

I am fine with Apple doing the same but on one hand they are saying this is the most amazing feature but on the other they call it a beta. Early 4s adopters are being used just the way Google users were. Apple is just putting a different spin on it but it is the same thing.

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post #76 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Which is why Google ran their GOOG411 service for a year before releasing their voice recognition apps and they shut the service down once they had enough data. That's Google for you. And people thought it was a convenient service for consumers not realizing they were being used.

I am fine with Apple doing the same but on one hand they are saying this the most amazing feature but on the other they call it a beta. Early 4s adopters are being used just the way Google users were. Apple is just putting a different spin on it but it is the same thing.

People also need to understand that Apple will have very direct data mining of your habits. It would be remiss of them not take advantage of this excellent source of information to better serve their customers (aka turning a profit), but one shouldn't think that means they will sell this information or that they won't anonymise it like they do with the Location Data sent from your iPhone. We are their customers, not their products. Facebook and Google make me feel like an Eloi.
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post #77 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

People also need to understand that Apple will have very direct data mining of your habits. It would be remiss of them not take advantage of this excellent source of information to better serve their customers (aka turning a profit), but one shouldn't think that means they will sell this information or that they won't anonymise it like they do with the Location Data sent from your iPhone. We are their customers, not their products. Facebook and Google make me feel like an Eloi.

Good god, you don't have link Eloi, this is a sci if blog isn't it!
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post #78 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Good god, you don't have link Eloi, this is a sci if blog isn't it!

We talk about science, the trolls make up fiction, so I guess that counts as Sci-Fi.

Morlock I think would have been obvious to most, but I wasn't sure about Eloi.
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post #79 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

That was an interesting read, although it seemed to me the author was doing a lot of guessing, not unlike many of us here. Here's another link to a fantastic presentation by Tom Gruber about Siri:

http://vimeo.com/5424527

I recommend everyone interested in artificial intelligence to watch it -- it opened my eyes to the true nature of Siri, which is much more exciting than mere voice recognition, text to speech, or canned jokes.

More on topic, those using the hack to run Siri on unauthorized devices are doing something illegal, since the software is not freely distributable. This is also likely to cause strain on the back-end servers, so Apple would be looking for a way to curtail it...

And what is so sad is in that video was the software that used to be available on all iPhones

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #80 of 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I am still wondering if it sends the audio of your voice to Apple or not. If it does, that is a lot of data.

Hasn't anyone figured that out yet? I assumed it , I mean she, sent audio. If not that is some amazing on board software!
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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