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Schools expect to have more iPads than computers in next 5 years

post #1 of 51
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A new survey of technology directors in U.S. school districts found that all of them are testing or deploying the iPad in schools, and they expect tablets to outnumber computers in the next five years.

Analyst Gene Munster of Piper Jaffray revealed the results of the small survey of 25 educational technology directors at a conference on the integration of technology in the classroom. The poll found that all of them were utilizing Apple's iPad in schools, while none were testing or deploying Android-based tablets.

"While this may be expected due to limited availability of Android tablets early in the tablet cycle, we also see it as evidence of Apple's first mover advantage," Munster said. "We also see a trend in education (which is mirrored in the enterprise) that familiarity with Apple devices among students (or employees) is causing a demand pull within institutions to also provide Apple devices."

IT directors who spoke with Piper Jaffray indicated that within the next five years, they expect to have more tablets per student than they currently have computers. And since the iPad represents 100 percent of tablets seen in schools, Munster said the word "tablet" might as well be synonymous with "iPad."

He noted that Ron Johnson, Apple's outgoing head of retail operations, recently indicated that the current crop of students may be "the last generation with backpacks," as students use iPads to replace their books. The 25 technology decision makers in education indicated that devices like the iPad allow for individualized learning better than a traditional computer.

The school districts represented in the survey have about 10 students per computer, but in the next five years, IT directors for school districts expect they will have about six students per iPad. The survey also revealed that the iPad is being used to supplement computers, not replace them, within schools.



Earlier this year, Apple Chief Executive Tim Cook indicated that demand for the iPad is strong among education customers, as well as with consumers and in the enterprise. The company went on to report sales of 11.2 million iPad units in its last quarter, the highest sales yet in a three-month period.

In February of this year, a Georgia state senator proposed a plan to get rid of conventional textbooks and shift middle school classrooms to the iPad. Tommie Williams hopes to see printed books replaced, and met with Apple to discuss a plan to make the iPad a central component in the state's education system.
post #2 of 51
No wonder Steve Jobs was disappointed at the bad press after iPad's initial release. This is a game changer and has a lot of potential. In retrospect, now, I admire Jobs more than before.

Honestly, I hesitated with the purchase of my iPad. But, by the time it became available, I decided. Now, I am very happy I bought it. Even though it's less powerful then the iPad 2, it's still going very strong. I am sure iPad 3 will be even more impressive.
post #3 of 51
This wouldn't surprise me, in all honesty. For the price you pay you get a machine that can cope with the usual onslaught of school work and has a build quality that would outlast any laptop in the same price class. Value for money, meet iPad.

If I didn't need my MacBook Pro at work, my iPad would be my only portable computer.

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post #4 of 51
They will be able to pay for the iPads by the savings on printed text books alone.
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post #5 of 51
Although I totally agree with their premise that iPads are the future in schools, I surely am not basing that on a statistically insignificant poll of 25 people, even if they are educational technologist.
post #6 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

They will be able to pay for the iPads by the savings on printed text books alone.

My former university replaced almost all the journals with ebooks for download from the library website. At the same time they issued WiFI and VPN connection instructions for the iPad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post

Although I totally agree with their premise that iPads are the future in schools, I surely am not basing that on a statistically insignificant poll of 25 people, even if they are educational technologist.

It just sounds like the analysts are just restating the obvious, if I am at all honest.

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post #7 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

They will be able to pay for the iPads by the savings on printed text books alone.

Maybe. From what I've seen, the cost of electronic books is not all that much lower than the cost of printed books. It SHOULD be, but it isn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post

Although I totally agree with their premise that iPads are the future in schools, I surely am not basing that on a statistically insignificant poll of 25 people, even if they are educational technologist.

Depends on the confidence level you're choosing. If the sample is random, the margin of error could be as good as +/- 10% or so which might be useful information if the answers are consistent enough.

The real problem is randomness. Still, when 100% of the people are using iPads, 0% are using Android, and the majority say that they will be migrating from computers to iPads, that's useful information, even if it's statistically marginal.
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post #8 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by jj.yuan View Post

No wonder Steve Jobs was disappointed at the bad press after iPad's initial release. This is a game changer and has a lot of potential. In retrospect, now, I admire Jobs more than before.

Honestly, I hesitated with the purchase of my iPad. But, by the time it became available, I decided. Now, I am very happy I bought it. Even though it's less powerful then the iPad 2, it's still going very strong. I am sure iPad 3 will be even more impressive.

I'm not sure why SJ was disappointed. People were expecting whizzbang and instead they got an email app demo, a Pages demo, and a bunch of mundane walkthroughs. I would say that that was his most boring SJ keynote.
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post #9 of 51
I have always suggested that this was one of the goals of Apple. That soon the teacher in front of the class will say: "Students, download chapter (x) of (this or that) book", and then would go over it with the class. No more books to carry home or to school. The number of books in the library will slowly diminish.

Another target that Apple should have eyed for the iPad is the medical field. Hospitals, but also specialists, family doctors and even dentists can have all the needed information within the touch of a button.

Apple (or Steve Jobs) are literally changing the world!
post #10 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Maybe. From what I've seen, the cost of electronic books is not all that much lower than the cost of printed books. It SHOULD be, but it isn't.

The actual cost of a physical book is less than you think. For the average hardback, think $3-$4.

The rest is book production costs (art, editing, etc.), advertising and promotion, author's royalties, publisher's profit, and retailer's profit.

And ebook prices ARE much lower, typically 40% to half the cost of the hardback. But today we're also used to retailers marking bestselling hardbacks down 30-40% as loss leaders, which makes it seem like the ebook price is the same, or even higher.
post #11 of 51
Sounds like a stupid move to me. Better to get the computer per student level up. iPads are expensive and you can’t do much with them. You need a docking station with a full size keyboard to make it ergonomically sound enough to be able to type several hours a day. A screen based keyboard on a 10 inch screen just does not cut it. Also when the keyboard is active on the iPad, screen real estate goes down significantly, so you cant see much else. And of course, whenever you want to take notes, you need your keyboard open, or you need a HTC like stylus.

My daughter is dyslectic and uses a 12 inch laptop but it is proving too small for her electronic books (legal requirement that electronic books are available for secondary school children with dyslexia over here) so when at home she uses a 22 inch screen. We will soon buy her a 17 inch laptop for school. Best thing about the 22 inch is she can have a book open and a word documents so she is typing as she reads.

Also, either Apple starts unlocking all their iPads, or how do you learn computer programming. This is a compulsory course in lower secondary school in many areas. Students need to be able to program on their computers at school and at home.

Apple would be better placed to focus their attention on getting more iMacs or Macbooks into the schools. I know of many teachers who, when given the option, are going for macbooks for their work computer.
post #12 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

I'm not sure why SJ was disappointed. People were expecting whizzbang and instead they got an email app demo, a Pages demo, and a bunch of mundane walkthroughs. I would say that that was his most boring SJ keynote.

First, iPad was kind of an open secret. Second, most of the people watching were technologists who simply didn't get it. "Why buy one of these when you can buy a netbook that does more," they asked. Some simply didn't see the niche.

And today, despite the fact they're flying off the shelves, many still don't get it.
post #13 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairb View Post

Sounds like a stupid move to me. Better to get the computer per student level up. iPads are expensive and you can’t do much with them. You need a docking station with a full size keyboard to make it ergonomically sound enough to be able to type several hours a day. A screen based keyboard on a 10 inch screen just does not cut it. Also when the keyboard is active on the iPad, screen real estate goes down significantly, so you cant see much else. And of course, whenever you want to take notes, you need your keyboard open, or you need a HTC like stylus.

My daughter is dyslectic and uses a 12 inch laptop but it is proving too small for her electronic books (legal requirement that electronic books are available for secondary school children with dyslexia over here) so when at home she uses a 22 inch screen. We will soon buy her a 17 inch laptop for school. Best thing about the 22 inch is she can have a book open and a word documents so she is typing as she reads.

Also, either Apple starts unlocking all their iPads, or how do you learn computer programming. This is a compulsory course in lower secondary school in many areas. Students need to be able to program on their computers at school and at home.

Apple would be better placed to focus their attention on getting more iMacs or Macbooks into the schools. I know of many teachers who, when given the option, are going for macbooks for their work computer.

You're thinking in the past, and also missing the point. iPads don't replace computers, any more than cars replace trucks. But for a lot of uses, including eBooks, the iPad is superior and far more portable. It also features loads of accessibility features for those with special needs. And if you do need to type, you don't need a huge dock; a Bluetooth keyboard suffices, and is equally portable.

And for all the essential things you list... computer programming? Wow.

Also, remember that this isn't limited to college; it's for regular school districts.
post #14 of 51
The article seems a bit ambiguous - it says all the technology directors are testing/using the iPad and then states they think they will have more iPads than computers in 5 years, but it's unclear if the "all" is meant to encompass both parts. Do they also *all* agree that they will have more iPads, or is it just a few?
post #15 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by LighteningKid View Post

The article seems a bit ambiguous - it says all the technology directors are testing/using the iPad and then states they think they will have more iPads than computers in 5 years, but it's unclear if the "all" is meant to encompass both parts. Do they also *all* agree that they will have more iPads, or is it just a few?

Given that the results are not from any kind of scientific poll, but rather, from casual conversations with pollster-selected subjects, that doesn't really matter.
post #16 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

They will be able to pay for the iPads by the savings on printed text books alone.

Shame, then, that digital books are exactly the same price as their physical copies, even though they could easily be less than 1/10th the price.

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post #17 of 51
Is the iPad the greenest electronic device ever?

Think of how many millions of trees will be saved with electronic textbooks!
post #18 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Secular Investor View Post

Think of how many millions of trees will be saved with electronic textbooks!

This is basically all we'll get out of it. No price saving or anything.

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post #19 of 51
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Originally Posted by ahmlco View Post

The actual cost of a physical book is less than you think. For the average hardback, think $3-$4.

The rest is book production costs (art, editing, etc.), advertising and promotion, author's royalties, publisher's profit, and retailer's profit.

And ebook prices ARE much lower, typically 40% to half the cost of the hardback. But today we're also used to retailers marking bestselling hardbacks down 30-40% as loss leaders, which makes it seem like the ebook price is the same, or even higher.

First, your assumption of printing costs is way low for text books. In any event, the bottom line is that using e-books isn't really any cheaper than buying paper books:
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/aug...cal/me-books26

There are other advantages, but given the current cost structure, cost savings isn't one of them. The biggest advantage is that my daughter would not be carrying 20 pounds of text books in her backpack every night. Plus, it would be easier to keep the books up to date.
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post #20 of 51
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Originally Posted by Roos24 View Post

I have always suggested that this was one of the goals of Apple. That soon the teacher in front of the class will say: "Students, download chapter (x) of (this or that) book", and then would go over it with the class. No more books to carry home or to school. The number of books in the library will slowly diminish.

Another target that Apple should have eyed for the iPad is the medical field. Hospitals, but also specialists, family doctors and even dentists can have all the needed information within the touch of a button.

Apple (or Steve Jobs) are literally changing the world!

The medical profession isn't far behind, if they are at all. My oncologist at Stanford has access to my whole case on an iPad. His intern was able to write the note while in the office with me and schedule the follow up and send me an email reminder (been in remission 5 years).
post #21 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

I'm not sure why SJ was disappointed. People were expecting whizzbang and instead they got an email app demo, a Pages demo, and a bunch of mundane walkthroughs. I would say that that was his most boring SJ keynote.

I think he was upset by the tech-head critics because it was claimed that Apple had shown the iPad to a number top executives in various industries and they were blown away by how compact and fast the iPad was. I think most ordinary people would have been very excited about using one.

Then it's shown to the tech critics who believe they know everything about computers and they were disappointed, as usual, because the iPad didn't feature every port they felt was necessary in order for the iPad to be as useful as a $250 Windows netbook. Steve Jobs probably thought that the tech people would have been happy with something thinner, lighter and having longer battery life than current Windows tablets. He was wrong. Tech-heads are just too smart for their own good. Fortunately, consumers are not as critical and since they're the ones who would be doing all the buying, Apple was able to sell iPads by the millions of units. The rest is history. Consumers are satisfied with the iPad and the tech geniuses are still sulking and desperately waiting for Windows 8 tablets a couple of years later.
post #22 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

This is basically all we'll get out of it. No price saving or anything.

One more thing to consider is health costs related to kids hauling their books around every day in absence of lockers. I work in schools. Many children, of all ages, have taken to rolling backpacks so as not injure or cause stress on their bodies that could have long term effect later. Which, obviously, will cost more money to the child's family and the taxpayers.
post #23 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Shame, then, that digital books are exactly the same price as their physical copies, even though they could easily be less than 1/10th the price.

To be fair, in a capitalistic system, the prices aren't set from the bottom up; they're set based on what consumers are willing to pay and how much they value the product/service. Unless you're the company in question and considering profit margins, the cost has no bearing on the final price.
post #24 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by LighteningKid View Post

The article seems a bit ambiguous - it says all the technology directors are testing/using the iPad and then states they think they will have more iPads than computers in 5 years, but it's unclear if the "all" is meant to encompass both parts. Do they also *all* agree that they will have more iPads, or is it just a few?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Given that the results are not from any kind of scientific poll, but rather, from casual conversations with pollster-selected subjects, that doesn't really matter.

Perhaps it doesn't matter to you, but I'm interested to know - even if it isn't scientific - or else I wouldn't have asked.

Does anyone else know the answer?
post #25 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmlco View Post

First, iPad was kind of an open secret. Second, most of the people watching were technologists who simply didn't get it. "Why buy one of these when you can buy a netbook that does more," they asked. Some simply didn't see the niche.

And today, despite the fact they're flying off the shelves, many still don't get it.

1) I agree with your points, but also agree with bloggerblog's point about it being one of the worst keynotes. There were repetitions, there were hesitations, there were pages with Flash that couldn't obviously be displayed. I like the idea with the chair to show off it being a casual yet power device, but it just didn't come across as well rehearsed and thought out as other keynotes.

2) I certainly knew it would be a break away hit and that netbooks were crap, but I also had no need for an iPad. I returned my first one, my 2nd iPad 1 (a gift) after iOS 4.0 was released got some use, but it wasn't until my iPad 2 that I really started using it a lot. Now I've gone from needing only the minimal amount of storage to getting the the maximum amount of storage of the next model which is why I'm hoping for 128GB.

3) I can see the Amazon Fire being a great way to sell iPads. It might be hard for many to plop down $500 or more for CE they aren't sure they need, but they could very well do $199 without second guessing the decision. From there may find that they like the experience enough that for their next tablet purchase they'll go with a full sized and fully function tablet, which at this point leaves only one choice: iPad.
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post #26 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

I think he was upset by the tech-head critics because it was claimed that Apple had shown the iPad to a number top executives in various industries and they were blown away by how compact and fast the iPad was. I think most ordinary people would have been very excited about using one.

Then it's shown to the tech critics who believe they know everything about computers and they were disappointed, as usual, because the iPad didn't feature every port they felt was necessary in order for the iPad to be as useful as a $250 Windows netbook. Steve Jobs probably thought that the tech people would have been happy with something thinner, lighter and having longer battery life than current Windows tablets. He was wrong. Tech-heads are just too smart for their own good. Fortunately, consumers are not as critical and since they're the ones who would be doing all the buying, Apple was able to sell iPads by the millions of units. The rest is history. Consumers are satisfied with the iPad and the tech geniuses are still sulking and desperately waiting for Windows 8 tablets a couple of years later.

You're absolutely right. Enterprise IT departments are incredibly conservative with a vested interest in Windows and a fear or loathing of Apple products.

However they are coming under immense pressure both from senior executives above and staff below who insist on using their iPhones, iPads and Macs which are gaining surprisingly strong traction. At the last CC it was disclosed that "93% of the Fortune 500 deploying or testing the device [iPhones], up from 91% last quarter"

The speed with which iPads are gaining tracts amazing, considering it only came out 18 months ago: "the pace at which enterprises worldwide are adopting iPad is unprecedented. Today, 92% of the Fortune 500 are testing or deploying iPad within their enterprises, up from 86% last quarter. Internationally, 52% of the Global 500 are testing or deploying iPad, up from 47% last quarter."

Even Forrester, previously an arch opponent of Macs has done a 180 degree turn and now recommend companies support Macs, because Mac users are more productive than Windows PC users

"It's time to repeal prohibition and take decisive action," writes David Johnson in a new report made available to Fortune (and available for sale here). "Mac users are your HEROes and you should enable them not hinder them."

"HERO," it turns out, is a Forrester acronym for Highly Empowered and Resourceful Operatives -- "the 17% of information workers who use new technologies and find innovative ways to be more productive and serve customers more effectively."

"Most of the Macs today," writes Johnson, "are being freewheeled into the office by executives, top sales reps, and other workaholics. Forrester believes this is the same demographic that we're now calling the "power laptop user," and according to the latest Workforce Technology And Engagement Survey, power laptop users make 44% more money, use more collaboration apps, and carry an average of three devices wherever they go."

These power users are willing to pay for MacBooks Pros out of their own pocket, according to Forrester, because their company-supplied Microsoft (MSFT) Windows PCs:

Are slowing them down. Time is the only thing that these fierce competitors can't make more of. Many of today's corporate PCs are saddled with management, backup, and security agents that can bog down a PC. Employees want their PCs to boot in 10 seconds, not 10 minutes, and they don't want to have to get a cup of coffee while opening a 20 MB spreadsheet in Excel. They're drawn to uncluttered Macs especially those with solid-state drives, which are more responsive and boot in seconds."

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/10/...ce=yahoo_quote

If even Forrester now supports the Mac (which of course work seamlessly with iPhones and iPads) it looks like we've reached a tipping point.

A survey by Good Technology shows that in enterprises, iPhone and iPad totally dominate Android - with Blackberry losing market share and Windows mobile almost non-existent.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...r_android.html


It used to be said of IBM PCs (which ran MSDos) "Nobody gets fired for buying IBM - and they stormed the enterprise sector.

Now it may be said "Nobody gets fired for buying Apple! - but buying Android might be your last executive decision!" , with their lack of security and lack of backwards compatibility making it a nightmare to support Android"
post #27 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post

This wouldn't surprise me, in all honesty. For the price you pay you get a machine that can cope with the usual onslaught of school work and has a build quality that would outlast any laptop in the same price class. Value for money, meet iPad.

If I didn't need my MacBook Pro at work, my iPad would be my only portable computer.

Lol. So if this study or whatever turns out to be true its not suprising. However I have a 2007 Blackbook that is still going strong with Zero concern that it will have problems anytime soon. It has 4gigs of RAM and runs Lion on its dual core CPU. I cant see how/why my iPad won't last any longer or less for that matter.

What I think you are seeing is the slow death of text books, not the replacement of computers by iPads. I think consumption and some very light creation will be diverted from computers to iPad's but good old fashion report writing and any other serious creation will still be on a computer.
post #28 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by jj.yuan View Post

No wonder Steve Jobs was disappointed at the bad press after iPad's initial release. This is a game changer and has a lot of potential. In retrospect, now, I admire Jobs more than before.

He was disappointed because they were booing a product that they hadn't used yet. Only heard about.

As for some of the comments by Piper they are part no duh and part, well no duh. The average school has, if they are lucky, 30 computers in it with more like 500 kids. Give 50 of those kids tablets and you have more tablets than computers. And tablets are easier for the kids to use than computers in a number of ways. Plus the benefits of e-textbooks.

Now I wouldn't use tablets for everything. I think kids should still be learning their finger painting, their playing twinkle twinkle little star on the recorder etc. But with school budgets that are dropping art, music etc I would rather they at least get a bit of art history looking at the Louvre app than nothing. Playing the piano on Garageband is better than nothing.

And I would have a firm rule of no tablets at recess. One cause they can break and two cause kids need to run around and muck it up and burn off that not so healthy school lunch they just ate

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post #29 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post

Although I totally agree with their premise that iPads are the future in schools, I surely am not basing that on a statistically insignificant poll of 25 people, even if they are educational technologist.

Neither would I, if not for the anecdotal data of the last year and a half. Which is why I say that what he said and surveyed is really a no duh

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post #30 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Secular Investor View Post

You're absolutely right. Enterprise IT departments are incredibly conservative with a vested interest in Windows and a fear or loathing of Apple products.

However they are coming under immense pressure both from senior executives above and staff below who insist on using their iPhones, iPads and Macs which are gaining surprisingly strong traction. At the last CC it was disclosed that "93% of the Fortune 500 deploying or testing the device [iPhones], up from 91% last quarter"

The speed with which iPads are gaining tracts amazing, considering it only came out 18 months ago: "the pace at which enterprises worldwide are adopting iPad is unprecedented. Today, 92% of the Fortune 500 are testing or deploying iPad within their enterprises, up from 86% last quarter. Internationally, 52% of the Global 500 are testing or deploying iPad, up from 47% last quarter."

Even Forrester, previously an arch opponent of Macs has done a 180 degree turn and now recommend companies support Macs, because Mac users are more productive than Windows PC users

"It's time to repeal prohibition and take decisive action," writes David Johnson in a new report made available to Fortune (and available for sale here). "Mac users are your HEROes and you should enable them not hinder them."

"HERO," it turns out, is a Forrester acronym for Highly Empowered and Resourceful Operatives -- "the 17% of information workers who use new technologies and find innovative ways to be more productive and serve customers more effectively."

"Most of the Macs today," writes Johnson, "are being freewheeled into the office by executives, top sales reps, and other workaholics. Forrester believes this is the same demographic that we're now calling the "power laptop user," and according to the latest Workforce Technology And Engagement Survey, power laptop users make 44% more money, use more collaboration apps, and carry an average of three devices wherever they go."

These power users are willing to pay for MacBooks Pros out of their own pocket, according to Forrester, because their company-supplied Microsoft (MSFT) Windows PCs:

Are slowing them down. Time is the only thing that these fierce competitors can't make more of. Many of today's corporate PCs are saddled with management, backup, and security agents that can bog down a PC. Employees want their PCs to boot in 10 seconds, not 10 minutes, and they don't want to have to get a cup of coffee while opening a 20 MB spreadsheet in Excel. They're drawn to uncluttered Macs especially those with solid-state drives, which are more responsive and boot in seconds."

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/10/...ce=yahoo_quote

If even Forrester now supports the Mac (which of course work seamlessly with iPhones and iPads) it looks like we've reached a tipping point.

A survey by Good Technology shows that in enterprises, iPhone and iPad totally dominate Android - with Blackberry losing market share and Windows mobile almost non-existent.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...r_android.html


It used to be said of IBM PCs (which ran MSDos) "Nobody gets fired for buying IBM - and they stormed the enterprise sector.

Now it may be said "Nobody gets fired for buying Apple! - but buying Android might be your last executive decision!" , with their lack of security and lack of backwards compatibility making it a nightmare to support Android"

Do you work in corporate IT? You have no idea what you are talking about.

"You're absolutely right. Enterprise IT departments are incredibly conservative with a vested interest in Windows and a fear or loathing of Apple products."

It has nothing to do with "loathing" Apple products. I love them, but when you must manage/control hundreds to thousands of computers Apple products just down play well. Go over to Macfixit and just read all of the problems with Mac's, SMB, and AD binding. Its a huge PITA.

Unless a corporation is willing to go all Apple (server and client) and roll out OD and ditch AD, Apple products are not Enterprise friendly at all. The cost would be simply to great. Add to that a properly setup Microsoft environment (Windows 7/2008 R2/AD) runs just as well as anything Apple can put together. Better in many respects because of the management tools (SCCM/SCOM etc). Just take the data center alone, we are 99% virtualized. Since there is NO real solution for this on the Apple side, I would have to build out to get space for all of those physical servers....oh wait Apple does not make rack mounted servers any more.....never mind.

All of the studies about corporations adopting iPad's are offing joke. Yes executives bring in their Mac's and iPads and people like me give them guest wireless access so they can surf the internet on their iPad or read email on their Mac. They are NOT hooking up these devices to the internal LAN and opening up files off a server. Some Mac's may be but they are joined to AD (if they don't have issues) and manage as best as you can.
post #31 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roos24 View Post

I have always suggested that this was one of the goals of Apple. That soon the teacher in front of the class will say: "Students, download chapter (x) of (this or that) book",

Nope. it will all be pushed to them.

The teacher will do their lecture thing and then the kids will do their math worksheets right there and the score will be immediate and sent to a grading app for the teacher to see.

The kids will read chapters whatever to whatever of their novel for english and can take notes, or write a paper or whatever. They can create Keynote slides for presentations and airplay them to the smart screen up front.

When they do their social studies unit on Japan they will get to watch a FaceTime with a Japanese teacher that shows them some of the sites, teaches them a few words of Japanese and even demonstrates how to make a sushi roll. Which the kids will then try in class.

Kids won't be lugging around 50 lbs of textbooks or having to try to run between classes to get to a locker to swap things out. Nor will they be forced to get the nasty 5 year old books that have been ripped up, written in etc. Everyone gets a clean book and even gets to keep it if the school sets it up right.

It's a brave new world.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Shame, then, that digital books are exactly the same price as their physical copies, even though they could easily be less than 1/10th the price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

This is basically all we'll get out of it. No price saving or anything.

You don't see the savings cause you aren't looking at the right math.

The typical grade school math textbook costs $100-150 and might last two years before it is falling apart. And you have to buy a new text for every grade level. So for the typical grade school kid 1-6 grade basic math is 6 books. We'll keep the math easy and say that it's $600 even. IF the books actually all last 2 years that means for a school of 500 kids you need 250 sets at $150k. The math gets tricker because at least once in that six years the publisher is going to revise a text and force you to have to buy all new ones instead of getting that second year and most likely a revision on all 6 levels. So that's another payment to make. Plus the workbooks, the copy masters etc for the teachers, that can be easily $1000 a year for the 6 grades between the actual books and the supply costs for the copying.

Now take it electronic. One payment of $100 gets you a book that could potentially be used for all 500 kids. And revisions are typically free. There's no need for workbooks because they are built into the app. Even if your usage license makes you buy one copy of the book for every 100 students you are still paying a lot less.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #32 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

All of the studies about corporations adopting iPad's are offing joke.

But in the end the joke is going to be on you and others that rail on Mac systems as faulty based on things like forum postings. Because you forget that those with a gripe will make it loud and often and those without one are too busy getting their work done to say anything. Quick to fault, slow to praise is the way the game goes.

Companies are adopting iPhones, iPads, Macs and IT folks that don't get with it and support whatever the employees want to use are going to find out the hard way that they work for the employees not the other way around when they are kicked to the curb for some young pup that can handle all systems without griping. The age of companies looking at their IT people as god like tech experts to tell the idiots what to use is over. Get with the new game or get out

And that's coming from someone that is a corporate IT person and handles Windows, Mac and Linux systems both on separate machines and virtuals.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #33 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by bettieblue View Post

Do you work in corporate IT? You have no idea what you are talking about.

"You're absolutely right. Enterprise IT departments are incredibly conservative with a vested interest in Windows and a fear or loathing of Apple products."

It has nothing to do with "loathing" Apple products. I love them, but when you must manage/control hundreds to thousands of computers Apple products just down play well. Go over to Macfixit and just read all of the problems with Mac's, SMB, and AD binding. Its a huge PITA.

Unless a corporation is willing to go all Apple (server and client) and roll out OD and ditch AD, Apple products are not Enterprise friendly at all. The cost would be simply to great. Add to that a properly setup Microsoft environment (Windows 7/2008 R2/AD) runs just as well as anything Apple can put together. Better in many respects because of the management tools (SCCM/SCOM etc). Just take the data center alone, we are 99% virtualized. Since there is NO real solution for this on the Apple side, I would have to build out to get space for all of those physical servers....oh wait Apple does not make rack mounted servers any more.....never mind.

All of the studies about corporations adopting iPad's are offing joke. Yes executives bring in their Mac's and iPads and people like me give them guest wireless access so they can surf the internet on their iPad or read email on their Mac. They are NOT hooking up these devices to the internal LAN and opening up files off a server. Some Mac's may be but they are joined to AD (if they don't have issues) and manage as best as you can.

You sound just like the dinosaurs that are trying to resist Apple's advance. You remind me of King Canute . You are not being asked to replace Microsoft servers with Apple ones. You are being asked to make them work properly with Apple Macs, iPads and iPhones. You say it can't be and that you know better than Forrester, Good Technology, SAP, Salesforce and the thousands of companies adopting Apple devices in droves!

No I don't work in a Corporate IT department - they work for me! And if you worked for me I would tell you not to be a Luddite, go out, do your research and check how all those companies are improving productivity by using Apple front ends and come back to me with a plan how you are going to improve our company's productivity like the competition by adopting Apple stuff.

If you can't do that, you know where the doors is!
post #34 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

When they do their social studies unit on Japan they will get to watch a FaceTime with a Japanese teacher that shows them some of the sites, teaches them a few words of Japanese and even demonstrates how to make a sushi roll. Which the kids will then try in class.

There's no crying emoticon. Imagine one here.

I love your future. I want to live there. I want to have my hypothetical future daughter grow up in it.

It will never happen.

Quote:
Now take it electronic. One payment of $100 gets you a book that could potentially be used for all 500 kids.

The publishers will NEVER EVER let that happen. Schools will be paying per book per iPad.

And all the iPads in the school would have to be on the same Apple ID for that to work, anyway.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply
post #35 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Secular Investor View Post

Is the iPad the greenest electronic device ever?

Think of how many millions of trees will be saved with electronic textbooks!


I'll believe that as soon as I see a paperless office.


post #36 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Now take it electronic. One payment of $100 gets you a book that could potentially be used for all 500 kids. And revisions are typically free. There's no need for workbooks because they are built into the app. Even if your usage license makes you buy one copy of the book for every 100 students you are still paying a lot less.

Not a chance. The eBook will be charged per student or per iPad or something like that. If there are 500 users, the school will be buying 500 of them, not 1.

If the publisher was going to let them get away with that, then the school could just buy 1 textbook and Xerox it 500 times. Obviously, that's not going to fly.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #37 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

First, your assumption of printing costs is way low for text books. In any event, the bottom line is that using e-books isn't really any cheaper than buying paper books:
http://articles.latimes.com/2008/aug...cal/me-books26

There are other advantages, but given the current cost structure, cost savings isn't one of them. The biggest advantage is that my daughter would not be carrying 20 pounds of text books in her backpack every night. Plus, it would be easier to keep the books up to date.

Not only is there a savings in the initial printing, but instead of becoming dated or not current, the text, pictures, or whatever, can just be uploaded like any upgraded software. It also eliminates shipping altogether. Teachers can also add there own information to the curriculum
post #38 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Secular Investor View Post

Is the iPad the greenest electronic device ever?

Think of how many millions of trees will be saved with electronic textbooks!

Yes, but try not to forget the processes involved in making modern electronic devices.
post #39 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Secular Investor View Post

You sound just like the dinosaurs that are trying to resist Apple's advance. You remind me of King Canute . You are not being asked to replace Microsoft servers with Apple ones. You are being asked to make them work properly with Apple Macs, iPads and iPhones. You say it can't be and that you know better than Forrester, Good Technology, SAP, Salesforce and the thousands of companies adopting Apple devices in droves!

No I don't work in a Corporate IT department - they work for me! And if you worked for me I would tell you not to be a Luddite, go out, do your research and check how all those companies are improving productivity by using Apple front ends and come back to me with a plan how you are going to improve our company's productivity like the competition by adopting Apple stuff.

If you can't do that, you know where the doors is!

No one works for you. Nobody like that would post here. You simply have no idea what it takes to manage an IT infrastructure.

You CANT EVEN buy Apple servers any more. What is Apple running in their data center in NC...HP's with Linux/UNIX on them? It is not Xserves with OS X that is for sure, unless they just stack thousands upon thousands of Mini's on top of each other. Apple does not even have native iSCSI support out of the box. Instead you must rely on 3rd party software that is "OK" at best.

Anyone that truly has the fiduciary responsibility of their corporation in their hands as leader in IT will see the strengths and weaknesses of all solutions and use the best tool for the job.

Apple makes great consumer products and yes iPhone's and iPad's are being used in some places but largely as remote access devices and for consumption only in most respects. I have seen iPhones used in retail to scan with the camera and then looking of inventory/sales data on a Sharepoint server. In that particular company they struggled with managing those devices and were looking into WP7 as an alternative because you can manage those devices, thousands of them with SCCM.

If Apple cared about the enterprise they would do more to show it, but they do the complete opposite.
post #40 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

But in the end the joke is going to be on you and others that rail on Mac systems as faulty based on things like forum postings. Because you forget that those with a gripe will make it loud and often and those without one are too busy getting their work done to say anything. Quick to fault, slow to praise is the way the game goes.

Companies are adopting iPhones, iPads, Macs and IT folks that don't get with it and support whatever the employees want to use are going to find out the hard way that they work for the employees not the other way around when they are kicked to the curb for some young pup that can handle all systems without griping. The age of companies looking at their IT people as god like tech experts to tell the idiots what to use is over. Get with the new game or get out

And that's coming from someone that is a corporate IT person and handles Windows, Mac and Linux systems both on separate machines and virtuals.

Horse shit. The employees where hired to do something, and if they are not in IT their computers, tablets and phones provided by the company are tools to DO WHAT THEY ARE HIRED TO DO.

If you work in the purchasing department and you get a Windows PC that runs the 3-5 apps you might need, perfectly well......you really think that as an employee you can bitch about wanting a Mac and they should give it you? What if the software you use for purchasing IS NOT on the Mac? Should the company now buy different software so it can run on a Mac so you as the employee are happy?

WTF planet do you live on? No one in IT is a god, they are just doing a job. If Apple had serious enterprise products, and software options like Windows has, and pricing structure like Windows PC's then I would be all for it.

When one of the few Mac's we have has an issue, and they do just as much as PC's one of the desktop techs has to take it to an Apple store. If a Dell PC has a hardware problem, Dell sends a tech out to replace the bad part. Which is more cost effective for a company??? Think hard this question is really hard.
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