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Tim Cook looks to mold a more streamlined Apple - Page 3

post #81 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post


...Bye the way, if "AAPL" did a 'buy back', then your stock would go up. ...Depending on how much stock they re-purchased.

Should the stock actually go up, in theory? The book value of a company should be priced into the stock, right? If Apple were to give the $80B to charity their stock should fall, if they spend the $80B on a buy back, the fall in the stock price caused by the money on hand falling is balanced, in theory, by the buy back.

I see buy backs as huge wastes of money from the corporations point of view.
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post #82 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Should the stock actually go up, in theory? The book value of a company should be priced into the stock, right? If Apple were to give the $80B to charity their stock should fall, if they spend the $80B on a buy back, the fall in the stock price caused by the money on hand falling is balanced, in theory, by the buy back.

I see buy backs as huge wastes of money from the corporations point of view.

When a company buys back its stock, it's a sign of confidence in the future. Market sentiment alone puts upward price pressure on the stock in the near term. Also, you have to look at what it means -- the company feels its own stock is a better bet with its capital than any other investment. Unless it's a company on its last legs, making a desperate move to push its stock higher, you can almost always bet on good things in the future for the company.
post #83 of 119
I have to agree this is not good, I am going to keep a close eye on these changes since I may need to dump my investments if this kind of activities continue. This is exactly what happen when steve left the last time, Sculley and other senior management put levels in to separate themselves from the people with the ideas and doing the work since they could not understand what they were doing.

Cooks is obviously doing this because he probably read it in a book. The big different between Steve and others is Steve knew what was going on in the company, he would go to the sources and told the sources what needed to be done, no chain of command structure. Cook is putting in a classic chain of command since people who do not have a vision need it in place to understand what is going on.
post #84 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

I have to agree this is not good, I am going to keep a close eye on these changes since I may need to dump my investments if this kind of activities continue. This is exactly what happen when steve left the last time, Sculley and other senior management put levels in to separate themselves from the people with the ideas and doing the work since they could not understand what they were doing.

Cooks is obviously doing this because he probably read it in a book. The big different between Steve and others is Steve knew what was going on in the company, he would go to the sources and told the sources what needed to be done, no chain of command structure. Cook is putting in a classic chain of command since people who do not have a vision need it in place to understand what is going on.

I don't see where the article says Cook is separating himself from the workers. If anything, he is empowering people, which is a total 180 from the way Jobs ran the ship. Under Cook's watch, Apple is almost certainly a much better place to work, and happy employees make good products.
post #85 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

I suspect that the first 5 years with Cook as CEO will be better than those 5 years would have been with Jobs, just because Cook can go after the low hanging fruit of correcting Jobs' mistakes. As an outsider, I don't know for sure what exactly Jobs' recent mistakes have been, but from reading his biography I can certainly see that he has made plenty in his career.

One area where I could imagine Cook charting a different path is with enterprise customers. Jobs clearly hated corporate IT types (can't say that I blame him), but I think Jobs allowed his disdain for the IT dweebs to get in the way of figuring out a way to get Macs to the poor souls stuck using PCs at work. Ten years ago neglecting enterprise customers probably made sense due to a lack of end-user demand for Macs within corporations (i.e., not too many people wanted Macs in the first place). But today I think end-user demand for Macs is strong, including at the highest levels of organizations. Apple now has allies inside corporations that they can work with to beat the IT managers.

The biggest thing holding the Mac back in the enterprise right now is Apple's total lack of effort. If Apple would just start providing better sales, support, and IT-oriented management tools, I think the Mac could enjoy years of strong growth in the enterprise. Macs/PCs may be "trucks", but there are an awful lot of trucks being sold, and there always will be. Even though it's not a growing market, a growing share of a large market is still a good way to make money. I'm guessing Cook can see that more clearly than Jobs did.

Your post makes sense only if you decide that enterprise is going to keep buying boatloads of PCs. My Fortune 50 company has been rapidly replacing PCs with VDI boxes for several years now, and the new mobile tablet devices make that even easier. If you look at some of the corporate analyses, even Gartner is predicting that there is a new enterprise paradigm in the offing and it has Apple stamped clearly on it. With Apple products currently in study phase or being deployed in all of the Fortune 50 and most of the Fortune 500 companies, you have de facto support for enterprise already in place for Apple without all of the nonsense that traditional vendor relationships require. My own company has a large number of developer teams already building out corporate App Store controls, utilities and apps for our operations, without requiring massive ammounts of effort to support by Apple. Since all of these items are owned by the company, support stays internalized and controlled without requiring Apple to provide the kind of hand-holding required from Microsoft, for example. It's a whole different approach and it works extremely well here.

I think you are being very myopic in thinking that enterprise requires "trucks" for all of its needs. Most workers need email access, intra/internet access, systems access, and processing capacity for documents, spreadsheets and the odd database operations. That is all fully provisioned via VDI and can be delivered on a dumb box or mobile device. The only addition to a tablet approach we see is a keyboard, and I just walk in to a conference and jack into the projector using HDMI and deliver. Time to get out of your 20th century mindset and wake up to the 21st century you're living in.
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post #86 of 119
This quote really bothers me: "tell me again how this helps me sell more phones?".
post #87 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vadania View Post


...Bye the way, if "AAPL" did a 'buy back', then your stock would go up. ...Depending on how much stock they re-purchased.

Typically, this effect is short-lived. It is a short-term gimmick for companies needing to placate shareholders (often one or two institutions, in order to ensure their support at SHAs). In the long term, investing in the company rather than financial gimmicks is always the better way to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Should the stock actually go up, in theory? The book value of a company should be priced into the stock, right? If Apple were to give the $80B to charity their stock should fall, if they spend the $80B on a buy back, the fall in the stock price caused by the money on hand falling is balanced, in theory, by the buy back.

I see buy backs as huge wastes of money from the corporations point of view.

The price per share will go up because there are fewer shares to go around. This has been proven over time. But many factors, including the drop in cash holdings, will bring it down eventually if the company is not performing.

The fact is that it is unnecessary to do a stock buyback. Apple has proven that the stock takes care of itself if you execute on making and marketing great products. If Tim Cook forgets this lesson, shame on him.
post #88 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by jspence444 View Post

This quote really bothers me: "tell me again how this helps me sell more phones?".

Yep, that's the only thing that bothers me, too.

It screams Scully.

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post #89 of 119
Another corporate-level change is recently-announced charitable matching program that calls for Apple to match employee donations up to $10,000 per year, a change from the Jobs who was reportedly against giving money away.

That is a nice change. It is always good to give back to the community.
post #90 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post

I just want to know why someone would take a company so successful, that has used this formula to pull out of such a trench in the marketplace to rise to the biggest company in the world in market capitalization, and change it? Why change what isn't broken?

Change was thrust upon Apple with the departure of Steve Jobs. When you lose a central person like that, is it any wonder that the company would HAVE to restructure a bit as a result? Apple knows they can't just "tap" an individual to be the new Steve Jobs. Failing that, the duties and reporting structures that were attached to Steve are forced to change.

In my opinion, the changes that Tim Cook is instituting are motivated by that. I suspect that he is trying to do it in a minimally invasive way.

Thompson
post #91 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Yep, that's the only thing that bothers me, too.

It screams Scully.

Much bemused by the delayed reaction to Steve's death. So, the reality is sinking in now , huh?

Aw, just give the 'new' guy a chance. He's only been running things since 2006 or so.

People aren't going to stop buying Apple products anytime soon. There's a long line of exciting products finalizing development. Cook can execute. Apple is a sticky ecosystem. .

Seriously are you guys trying to talk Apple into a funk? find something else to do. It's a big amazing world out there.
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post #92 of 119
All companies take on the feel of there CEO's

Apple as we knew it gone just as Mr. Job's is gone, period.

I worry about the future of Apple like the next guy, but there is nothing that can be done.

This is a new Apple and the changes he is making are striking.

Mr. Ive's will be the odd man out, the lone voice so to speak.

My gut tells me the day's of corp executives getting a huge payday are about to begin.

For years they have had to bow to the seat of Mr. Job's and wait for his approval, thats was his Type A personality.

They loved there leader but I would be willing to bet there was some quiet animosity there.

Look at it as a mob mentality, with out Mr. Jobs to lay and enforce the law they will start re-writing laws as they see fit and how it benefits them.

I have lived thru multiple corporations that have there founder no longer a part of the company and it takes very little time for what I stated above to happen.

Even with the most loyal follower with in the company.

My hope is that the foundation Mr. Job's built can with stand this 3 to 5 year onslaught.

If so then new blood can take over with new vision and creativity.

Heres to hoping I am wrong...
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post #93 of 119
Fist off, the 'tell me how this sells more iphones' quote is so without context that it's impossible to say what's really going on there. As someone who's spent a decade at Apple, on teams reporting up to Tim, I can tell you first-hand that he know's what the heck is going on and probably has less patience with underperformance and time-wasting endeavors than Steve did so I'm guessing he was making someone explain the reasons for wanting to spend time on a particular project. One of the things I'm sure he's dealing with is how Apple's (unparalleled) growth has affected it's organization and no doubt he is doing what he needs to do to make it work. Apple will be fine with Cook at the helm (as long as Ive stays, of course)

Also, don't let Tim Cook's soft spoken nature fool you. There will be zero f-ing around at Apple.
post #94 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Profile > userlists > add to ignore.

Doubt you can see it since I'm allegedly a troll and thus either ignored or about to be.

Is there a way to find out who is ignoring ME?

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post #95 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by eehd View Post

Another corporate-level change is recently-announced charitable matching program that calls for Apple to match employee donations up to $10,000 per year, a change from the Jobs who was reportedly against giving money away.

That is a nice change. It is always good to give back to the community.

Watch out, given the attitudes of some people here, that statement might be considered controversial, even political!

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post #96 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SinceMacOS6 View Post

Fist off, the 'tell me how this sells more iphones' quote is so without context that it's impossible to say what's really going on there. As someone who's spent a decade at Apple, on teams reporting up to Tim, I can tell you first-hand that he know's what the heck is going on and probably has less patience with underperformance and time-wasting endeavors than Steve did so I'm guessing he was making someone explain the reasons for wanting to spend time on a particular project. One of the things I'm sure he's dealing with is how Apple's (unparalleled) growth has affected it's organization and no doubt he is doing what he needs to do to make it work. Apple will be fine with Cook at the helm (as long as Ive stays, of course)

Also, don't let Tim Cook's soft spoken nature fool you. There will be zero f-ing around at Apple.

Welcome!

Are Apple employees actually allowed to participate in forums like this?

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post #97 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGNR8 View Post

My gut tells me the day's of corp executives getting a huge payday are about to begin.

Tim Cook received 12.3M in stock for the good work he did taking over for Steve in 2009. He made 59M last year between salary, stock and bonuses and when they made him CEO, they gave him 1M shares of stock. I don't think he's worried too much about what his specific salary will be as CEO.
post #98 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by palomine View Post

Much bemused by the delayed reaction to Steve's death. So, the reality is sinking in now , huh?

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOROM View Post

Are Apple employees actually allowed to participate in forums like this?

Once they find out who he is, he'll be fired, particularly since he's a higher-up. They're allowed to read, not post.

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post #99 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOROM View Post

Welcome!

Are Apple employees actually allowed to participate in forums like this?

He was speaking in the past tense. Likely he no longer is an Apple employee.


post #100 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

He was speaking in the past tense. Likely he no longer is an Apple employee.

He used "who's". He used it incorrectly, but he used it. That implies 'who has', 'not who had', meaning ongoing.

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post #101 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Once they find out who he is, he'll be fired, particularly since he's a higher-up. They're allowed to read, not post.

you an insider now?
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post #102 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

you an insider now?

I so wish.

"Yeah, that way you'd be overcome with a self-righteous sense of morality and wouldn't post anymore!"

No.

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post #103 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPedro View Post

Not any one person. Steve was Apple. He was a one man company who delegated his work to other people but they did what he wanted.

In the Steveless Apple, several people whom he groomed have taken over areas of their expertise.

Here is what your "new Steve Jobs" looks like:



It's not one person, it's many people.

Tim Cook is the best at running the ship, but somebody like Jony Ive for example has taken a leadership role in his area of expertise: industrial design. Steve and him used to confer on designs. Now Ive does it himself. Jobs used to brainstorm all ads and marketing strategies with the agencies Apple dealt with. Phil Schiller was part of that. Now Phil is solely in charge.

If you're looking for a single person who will do all that Jobs did, you won't find one, but the sum of all the men (no women strangely) does make for a very competitive Steve replacement. Upset at the word "replacement"? Don't be. Steve himself designed it.

Interesting (in a bad way) that there's no Senior Vice President of Computer Software - there's one for Internet Software and one for iOS Software.

The one area Apple has gone downhill in is its computer software - lots of mistakes and bad design decisions.
post #104 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Such a good post it's worth posting again

There is one thing that worries me slightly and that is that there's no "Mac OS" equivalent to Scott Forstall.

I just posted the same idea before reading yours. Well, it's worth saying again - Apple needs to improve and tighten up its computer software development.
post #105 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

He used "who's". He used it incorrectly, but he used it. That implies 'who has', 'not who had', meaning ongoing.

I took another look. You're right.
post #106 of 119
As long as Ive, Schiller and Forstall are at high levels and never leave the company - I have faith in Apple. If more than one of them leaves then my faith declines greatly.
post #107 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruel24 View Post

I just want to know why someone would take a company so successful, that has used this formula to pull out of such a trench in the marketplace to rise to the biggest company in the world in market capitalization, and change it? Why change what isn't broken?

Alan Mulally once said that the problem with most CEOs is that they're driving by the shareholders instead of the product. If you have the product, you have the sales, you have the revenue, you have the profits, and therefore you have the shareholders.

Because Steve's genius and personality, while it made Apple the incredible success it is today, also hurt Apple and its employees in some respects and what we don't know is how many great minds Apple lost because they didn't want to deal with Steve's tantrums and behavior, which in any other company, could be considered to be "hostile working conditions."

Especially because Steve is gone, it is important for Apple to retain its best employees. If Cook improves communication and makes it more pleasant to work at Apple, I think that's a good thing.

My question is this: While Ive is there to drive industrial design, who is the person at Apple who drives new product ideas? Who decides how the next generation OS is going to work? Who decides if the iOS and OS X should be merged or separated? Who is strategizing on what OS XI should be? Who is creating whatever new product comes after the iPhone, whether it's a television or something else? These are the things that Steve was great at. If Tim Cook is not a "product guy", then he needs someone at the most senior level aside from Ive who is.
post #108 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SinceMacOS6 View Post

Fist off, the 'tell me how this sells more iphones' quote is so without context that it's impossible to say what's really going on there. As someone who's spent a decade at Apple, on teams reporting up to Tim, I can tell you first-hand that he know's what the heck is going on and probably has less patience with underperformance and time-wasting endeavors than Steve did so I'm guessing he was making someone explain the reasons for wanting to spend time on a particular project. One of the things I'm sure he's dealing with is how Apple's (unparalleled) growth has affected it's organization and no doubt he is doing what he needs to do to make it work. Apple will be fine with Cook at the helm (as long as Ive stays, of course)

Also, don't let Tim Cook's soft spoken nature fool you. There will be zero f-ing around at Apple.

This is a valuable perspective on that shred of a quote that was missing from anybody else's handwringing over it here. How could anyone presume to worry about it without knowing even the basic context, not to mention any of the ten or so imaginable subtle contexts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

He used "who's". He used it incorrectly, but he used it. That implies 'who has', 'not who had', meaning ongoing.

Actually he used "who's" correctly. In the next phrase, "know's" is not correct.
post #109 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Actually he used "who's" correctly.

There's no subject-verb agreement. You think it's correct because that's how people talk now, which is wrong grammatically.

Quote:
In the next phrase, "know's" is not correct.

Thought I'd give him a pass on that.

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post #110 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

There's no subject-verb agreement. You think it's correct because that's how people talk now, which is wrong grammatically.



Thought I'd give him a pass on that.

Well, you're the last someone whom I'd argue with. And I doubt there's anyone around here who's willing to either.

If anyone's out there who'd like to mediate, he or she'd be doing us a favor.
post #111 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Debating the importance of iTunes is moot. It is becoming irrelevant with iCloud.

Please explain...
post #112 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

How is it badly implemented?

All software could use some tweaks here and there, but by far, it's the best thing Apple makes, including OSX and iOS. iTunes is literally the only Apple product (hardware or software) where I can say, "yes, that is exactly what I want".

The only thing I can think of that I would change is perhaps adding native support for other file formats such as Divx or FLAC.

Do I like or use everything that is in there? No, but I just turn those things off. Unlike a lot of Apple products, at least I actually have a choice instead of them arbitrarily taking features away that I might want.

I find it slow,I find it locks my Mac up quite a lot, I find it heavy, there is too many functions in the one App, I think they should have continued on the iTunes for media, iSync for syncing route. One example is, why do they release a whole new copy of iTunes for a new iPod, why?
post #113 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

One example is, why do they release a whole new copy of iTunes for a new iPod, why?

New hardware uses new USB profiles. The software must be updated to know how to see them, how to sync to them, and how to manage their software and hardware configurations.

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post #114 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

I find it slow,I find it locks my Mac up quite a lot, I find it heavy, there is too many functions in the one App

If it's slow for you, there's something wrong with your Mac. I've never had an iTunes lock-up, and I've been using it since day one on several different machines. iTunes is one of the sleekest, most efficient apps that exists for OS X.

It's fully-functional aspect is its greatest strength. I don't need a bunch of different apps that do all kind of things, everything is right there. That's my biggest beef with the iOS implementation of it, I have to keep going back and forth between different apps to do things that are integrated on the desktop version. I have to use two different apps to use different episodes of the same podcast feed!

There are plenty of bad apps out there, OS X's iTunes is not one of them. It's one of the very best apps that exists for any purpose.

Syncing? OF COURSE that should be in iTunes. That's where the library that I'm syncing from is! It allows me to control what I want and how I want it. If anything, iCloud is the problem. It should have just been a feature of iTunes. If you are logged to your iTunes account, you could just check off cloud sync, and it's done. The way it is now, there are all kinds of people who can't even figure out how to sign up for iCloud, never mind use it.
post #115 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

New hardware uses new USB profiles. The software must be updated to know how to see them, how to sync to them, and how to manage their software and hardware configurations.

So if they had a seperate app for syncing they would only need to update it, not the entire iTunes apps
post #116 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

If it's slow for you, there's something wrong with your Mac. I've never had an iTunes lock-up, and I've been using it since day one on several different machines. iTunes is one of the sleekest, most efficient apps that exists for OS X.

I've been through this with you guys tonnes of times, I'm sick of it. I find iTunes crap. There is nothing wrong with my Mac other than it being over 6 months old. If you have a number of items in your library it slows down a lot, and it has been getting slower and slower for the last number of releases, version 7 and 8 were ok, 9 started going downhill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

It's fully-functional aspect is its greatest strength. I don't need a bunch of different apps that do all kind of things, everything is right there. That's my biggest beef with the iOS implementation of it, I have to keep going back and forth between different apps to do things that are integrated on the desktop version. I have to use two different apps to use different episodes of the same podcast feed!

I don't own any iOS devices, I'll have to take your word on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

There are plenty of bad apps out there, OS X's iTunes is not one of them. It's one of the very best apps that exists for any purpose.

That's your opinion, you are welcome to it, but I insist you know that your opinion is wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

Syncing? OF COURSE that should be in iTunes. That's where the library that I'm syncing from is! It allows me to control what I want and how I want it. If anything, iCloud is the problem. It should have just been a feature of iTunes. If you are logged to your iTunes account, you could just check off cloud sync, and it's done. The way it is now, there are all kinds of people who can't even figure out how to sign up for iCloud, never mind use it.

Why should syncing be in iTunes? That is one of the reasons iTunes is getting so far, more and more stuff is thrown at it. You don't sync constantly, it doesn't need to be open constantly, a small application that does nothing by syncing is fine. And I don't really care about iCloud, my iPod classic can't use it, my capped internet connection has no want to use it
post #117 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

I've been through this with you guys tonnes of times, I'm sick of it. I find iTunes crap. There is nothing wrong with my Mac other than it being over 6 months old. If you have a number of items in your library it slows down a lot,

I have 20,995 items in my iTunes library (363.14 GB). How many more until I start to see it slow down?
post #118 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

I have 20,995 items in my iTunes library (363.14 GB). How many more until I start to see it slow down?

When you hit a terabyte total, you start to see it slow down.

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post #119 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

I have 20,995 items in my iTunes library (363.14 GB). How many more until I start to see it slow down?

Mine is over 1TB
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