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Apple says Amazon Kindle Fire will further fragment Android - Page 2

post #41 of 130
11/3/11 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

The only person that would remotely even know what you are talking about is a power user. If a power user wants a tablet, they will know what they need and buy accordingly. Since power users make up about 1% of 1% your point is moot. Also, Amazon is planning on keeping this thing locked down and on their own eco system. This tablet is aimed at the other 99.9% that just wants a simple device, which this is.

So not being able to run Android apps on an Android tablet is only going to affect "power user"s? Huh? That makes zero sense. Fragmentation of a platform affects all users of said platform.
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post #42 of 130
11/3/11 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by grmac View Post

Do not awaken StylusGuy!

Oh no... not StylusGuy!
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post #43 of 130
11/3/11 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by alansky View Post

There is absolutely no reason for BMW to be concerned about anything that Chevrolet comes out with, even though BMW and Chevrolet are both cars.

I honestly do not think people get the concept of market share. No one is claiming the Fire will put Apple out of business, the claim is that it will chew into market share, hence be a threat. Anything that takes away sales is a threat. Remember, Chevy owns Cadillac, which does directly compete against BMW, does very well and cuts well into BMW's sales.
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post #44 of 130
11/3/11 at 11:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

So not being able to run Android apps on an Android tablet is only going to affect "power user"s? Huh? That makes zero sense. Fragmentation of a platform affects all users of said platform.

What you fail to understand is that this is an Amazon tablet that is powered by Android, not an Android tablet. Amazon has great plans for this, all powered by apps from Amazon utilizing Amazon's eco system. This is an Amazon platform, not an Android one. Amazon has been very clear on how it plans to control this device.
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post #45 of 130
11/3/11 at 11:18am
While I agree completely that the Kindle Fire will fragment Android and always be a weird intermediate tablet - not as good as the iPad - That 200 dollar price point is HUGE.. Honestly - it plays videos, some games, browses the web, of course reads books.. I think it's going to do really well because it's actually affordable. Especially with holiday season coming up, 500$ is a LOT to spend on a gift for anyone, but 200 is reasonable.
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post #46 of 130
11/3/11 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcalpin View Post

It doesn't have the Android Market, either.

Bingo. That is a huge difference, and a huge different set of expectations. Hellacool says something similar:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

What you fail to understand is that this is an Amazon tablet that is powered by Android, not an Android tablet. Amazon has great plans for this, all powered by apps from Amazon utilizing Amazon's eco system. This is an Amazon platform, not an Android one. Amazon has been very clear on how it plans to control this device.
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post #47 of 130
11/3/11 at 11:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

What you fail to understand is that this is an Amazon tablet that is powered by Android, not an Android tablet. Amazon has great plans for this, all powered by apps from Amazon utilizing Amazon's eco system. This is an Amazon platform, not an Android one. Amazon has been very clear on how it plans to control this device.

So you agree, the is an android tablet. So developers now have to target yet another android tablet device while developing. Thanks for confirming my point. Fragmentation is fragmentation.
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post #48 of 130
11/3/11 at 11:34am
It is a few lines of code for more market sales so the real concern for developers is those nicking their APPS.

Obviously success at 7" guarantees a 10" launch later.
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post #49 of 130
11/3/11 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

So you agree, the is an android tablet. So developers now have to target yet another android tablet device while developing. Thanks for confirming my point. Fragmentation is fragmentation.

No, developers have not been invited. The only developers will be Amazon developers. Again, this is an Amazon tablet, not an Android tablet. It will have the Amazon market not Android market. It just HAPPENS to run a highly modified version of Android, like the Mac runs a highly modified version of Unix.
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post #50 of 130
11/3/11 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

You should contact Apple's advertising department. They always use practical examples to sell their stuff.

"Want to display a life-sized penis on your tablet? The iPad can do that!"



I'm going to need a larger screen iPad then...
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post #51 of 130
11/3/11 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

So you agree, the is an android tablet. So developers now have to target yet another android tablet device while developing. Thanks for confirming my point. Fragmentation is fragmentation.

Developers don't have to do anything that they don't want to do.

Some will be paid by Amazon, some will be able to turn a profit by developing for the Fire, and some will stay away.

I would expect that the software selection will be limited compared to other tablets, but that lots of the most popular stuff will be available, so long as it doesn't compete with Amazon's paid offerings. No Netflix app, I wouldn't imagine, nor one for any proprietary format that B&N may have.

The simple, popular stuff will be well-covered, I would guess.
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post #52 of 130
11/3/11 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

So you agree, the is an android tablet. So developers now have to target yet another android tablet device while developing. Thanks for confirming my point. Fragmentation is fragmentation.

You still don't get it. What does it matter if it's an Android tablet? Developer can target whatever devices they want, but if it's the amazon app store (which is the only one that Amazon will officially support for the Fire) then it's most likely going to 'just work' with the Fire. This 'fragmentation' talk is pure nonsense, especially considering that Amazon plans to keep their tablet in their own little walled garden. In reality, Amazon is exploiting the open source nature of Android while simultaneously leveraging off of their own ecosystem.
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post #53 of 130
11/3/11 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

You still don't get it. What does it matter if it's an Android tablet? Developer can target whatever devices they want, but if it's the amazon app store (which is the only one that Amazon will officially support for the Fire) then it's most likely going to 'just work' with the Fire. This 'fragmentation' talk is pure nonsense, especially considering that Amazon plans to keep their tablet in their own little walled garden. In reality, Amazon is exploiting the open source nature of Android while simultaneously leveraging off of their own ecosystem.

This +1, the only thing being fragmented is the Tablet market, this is ONE MORE tablet developers will have to develop for. Problem is we make that sound like a bad thing. If developers are selling their products, I do not think they care if the have to develop for a Casio calculator.
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post #54 of 130
11/3/11 at 11:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

I'm under the impression that it has a weaker processor and graphics than the full-sized and full-featured ones...

Dual-core processor, I don't know which particular game you have in mind, but I doubt that would be a problem...

Quote:

So games are likely to be less usable, with many impossible, at least going forward. No gyro for sure, no GPS, maybe no position sensors at all? I'm not certain.

Ahh, no gyro is a problem. Very useful for some nice games.

Quote:

Does it support Flash? IIRC, ICS does. If not, major gaming deficit compared to ICS tablets.

I hear the Firte has a good web browser, which seems like 90% of what is needed in a cheap tablet.

It has little internal storage and shorter battery life, doesn't it? So bringing several movies along for a lazy weekend at the camp might not be a use you could put it to.

I don't have info on the ports - does it have any HDMI output capability? Can you bring it to your friend's house and easily plug it into his Home Entertainment System? Certainly it does not have the wireless capabilities of the iPad, which are a major advantage. I'm not sure if ICS has the sophisticated mirroring and streaming stuff that Apple is doing either - if the Fire can come anywhere close, I'd be very amazed.

No cameras, so no pics taken - but it would work friggin great to display them when out of the house.

Likely there's more.

None of the rest I care about. Flash is rapidly losing relevance, I wouldn't be bringing the tablet with me to plug in friends' TVs even if it had the output, and battery life seems sufficient. Thanks for replying, I was interested if I'd be missing out on anything essential for me personally (or, rather, family members). It seems that I wouldn't, other than the gyro-controlled games...
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post #55 of 130
11/3/11 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

So you agree, the is an android tablet. So developers now have to target yet another android tablet device while developing. Thanks for confirming my point. Fragmentation is fragmentation.

Powered by Android much in the same way you can build your own UI on Apple's Darwin OS foundation but it won't be Mac OS and it won't run Mac OS apps.

It's a not like Samsung TouchWiz or HTC Sense that are just graphical layers on standard builds of Android. It's a fork. Android Market apps won't work on this device.
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post #56 of 130
11/3/11 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

So you agree, the is an android tablet. So developers now have to target yet another android tablet device while developing. Thanks for confirming my point. Fragmentation is fragmentation.

Developers can (and will) target the Kindle Fire specifically with the addition of effortless porting of Android applications to the Fire.

Kindle fire apps will not run on Android.
Android apps will not run on Kindle Fire.

Android apps can be ported to Kindle Fire.
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post #57 of 130
11/3/11 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

None of the rest I care about.

My guess is that you feel exactly the way many of the potential FireBuyers feel.

IMO, it is not as capable as the iOS/ICS tablets, but it is nevertheless well worth the money. I think that it will get better with time, as software gets added.
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post #58 of 130
11/3/11 at 12:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlink View Post

Sell IN or sell OUT.

I see lots of dust collecting on sell IN units.

<psssstttt.......Amazon.com is an Internet retailer.......>
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post #59 of 130
11/3/11 at 12:26pm
Is a stylus!

That's the future of computing

Users all over the world have used this proven technology. Hey, even the Newton
had one. And all those Palm pilots. And a lot of "tablet PC's" that no one bought.

Users love the freedom of using a stylus!
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post #60 of 130
11/3/11 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyTab View Post

Is he dense?

Whilst Android based, the Kindle Fire and Amazon Appstore/Ecosystem will emulate exactly what Apple has today.

Is it really that difficult for Tim to grasp what Amazon has on offer?

What is offered to Amazon is a Problem: If you sell a LOT of those you will accumulate LOTS of losses (real money, regarding their almost zero-margin.) Then they NEED to sell a LOT of content to break EVEN.
So that's the strategy. And in order to close the deal they HAD to close the device.

I would not bet on this being a success. Not at all.
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post #61 of 130
11/3/11 at 12:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

You should contact Apple's advertising department. They always use practical examples to sell their stuff.

"Want to display a life-sized penis on your tablet? The iPad can do that!"



This kind of garbage should be banned from comments
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post #62 of 130
11/3/11 at 12:50pm
A little history lesson to some who think an inferior product won't steamroll the iPad:

Once upon a time, way back in the 80's, Microsoft shipped an inferior product they liked to call "Windows."

-end of story.

Ron Paul

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Ron Paul

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post #63 of 130
11/3/11 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Unless Chevrolet pulled a Samsung.

I take it you haven't seen the new Jaguars.
(They pulled a Samsung on Aston Martin)
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post #64 of 130
11/3/11 at 12:59pm
According to Google it is not an Android tablet, as it doesn't use Google apps. People might have noticed Google hasn't sung it any praise.
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post #65 of 130
11/3/11 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Powered by Android much in the same way you can build your own UI on Apple's Darwin OS foundation but it won't be Mac OS and it won't run Mac OS apps.

It's a not like Samsung TouchWiz or HTC Sense that are just graphical layers on standard builds of Android. It's a fork. Android Market apps won't work on this device.

Actually almost every app that doesnt utilize Google Mobile Services would work. So unless its running their services (or Google in app purchasing) then it would run fine. The Kindle runs Android 2.3.4 so almost everything should run on it unless it uses special API calls (doesnt support more than 2 inputs), doesnt upscale to the resolution (it should automatically), or uses Gyros, GPS, cameras, bluetooth. Things like DLNA are left up in the air but id be surprised if it didnt have it considering the chip powering it.

For a developer there are minimal changes to be made unless you have an app that solely relies on the features the Fire doesnt have or cant support.
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post #66 of 130
11/3/11 at 1:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by boodies View Post

And the more I use the ipad, I am beginning to realize what this "walled garden" everyone is talking about. I can't even rearrange my icons my way... REALLY? WTF. That's just one of many issues in android, I can solve easily.

So your example of a walled garden is being unable to arrange icons your way? What way, exactly, do you want to arrange icons? Around your girlfriend's face in the background or something? That's not exactly a good example of 'walled garden' limitation. I'm going to assume you have figured out that you can continually touch an icon to enter a mode where you can move them around and arrange them...

Quote:
Originally Posted by boodies View Post

At this point, it's Windows for PC Android for Phones and Ipads for a tablet.

It would probably be worth settling on a platform so you can enjoy the platforms cross-device features. It can add some enjoyment to Android, but I suppose not terribly much. The coolest things about iPhone and iPad come about when you use Apple products across the board, though they work reasonably well with a Windows PC. At the very least I'd want to enjoy using the same purchases on my tablet and phone...
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post #67 of 130
11/3/11 at 1:21pm
There is a lot of talk here about if this is a Droid or not. Lets assume sites like Apple insider drag in people who pay a bit more attention to what the devices run and do than say the average person. If so many of us are confused about it how do you think average people will feel. It could easily work against it.

"I'm going to by a Droid powered tablet that does not run droid apps. So i will be limited to the much smaller Amazon market for apps...... Yay?"

It's sort of like selling something under the name Playstation that can't play Playstation games. They better make sure it's clear or they will see come back lash from this.

As far as it's effect on iPad sales go. I don't think it will be that big of a deal. As someone with very little money to spare I could have gotten a cheaper device than my iPad, but when I spend my monkey I want to be sure it's spent well. To me any many others that means Apple.
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post #68 of 130
11/3/11 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtapps View Post

"I'm going to by a Droid powered tablet that does not run droid apps. So i will be limited to the much smaller Amazon market for apps...... Yay?"

Sorry to be picky, but the OS is called Android. Droid is a phone model from Motorola.

The Amazon Store and the Android Market have a lot of overlapping apps. I would think it stupid/lazy if developers wouldn't put the app on both markets and increase their exposure. That would apply even in the event of suspected fragmentation (i.e. incompatibility, which so far has not been shown).
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post #69 of 130
11/3/11 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtapps View Post

There is a lot of talk here about if this is a Droid or not. Lets assume sites like Apple insider drag in people who pay a bit more attention to what the devices run and do than say the average person. If so many of us are confused about it how do you think average people will feel. It could easily work against it.

"I'm going to by a Droid powered tablet that does not run droid apps. So i will be limited to the much smaller Amazon market for apps...... Yay?"

It's sort of like selling something under the name Playstation that can't play Playstation games. They better make sure it's clear or they will see come back lash from this.

As far as it's effect on iPad sales go. I don't think it will be that big of a deal. As someone with very little money to spare I could have gotten a cheaper device than my iPad, but when I spend my monkey I want to be sure it's spent well. To me any many others that means Apple.

Its funny you mention it being a Droid tablet, the only people NOT calling it a Droid tablet is Amazon, they are not selling it as such, they are not trying to capitalize on the Droid market place, they are selling it as an Amazon tablet. The people calling it a Droid tablet are the "people who pay a bit more attention to what the devices run", apparently they are not paying attention to how the device is advertised or how it is being marketed. Us lowly wanna-Be's seem to get it.
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post #70 of 130
11/3/11 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patranus View Post

I take it you haven't seen the new Jaguars.
(They pulled a Samsung on Aston Martin)

I don't know, I half assumed that was a cooperative thing.
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post #71 of 130
11/3/11 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

I love the instant "no threat" attitude some here take. This is a threat to Apple, sure head to head, the iPad is a better device, problem is this thing only costs $199, compared to $499. That alone will draw many, many people to this device. Top that with the Amazon ecosystem and it is a winner. I will never own one, I love my iPad but for Christmas I was considering buying a "family" iPad for my two girls, now I can buy them each a Fire. They are not power users and do not need the full functionality of an iPad. They are like many consumers that are in the market but just do not want to spend $499.

There are plenty of $99.00 smart phones out there running android, but people are lining up in the millions around the world for an iPhone 4S. Say what you want about price, quality will always trump that.
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post #72 of 130
11/3/11 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zindako View Post

...quality will always trump that.

What do you mean by "trump"?
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post #73 of 130
11/3/11 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

Its funny you mention it being a Droid tablet, the only people NOT calling it a Droid tablet is Amazon, they are not selling it as such, they are not trying to capitalize on the Droid market place, they are selling it as an Amazon tablet. The people calling it a Droid tablet are the "people who pay a bit more attention to what the devices run", apparently they are not paying attention to how the device is advertised or how it is being marketed. Us lowly wanna-Be's seem to get it.

And technically Droid is only licensed through Lucas Arts for devices on Verizon's network.
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post #74 of 130
11/3/11 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloggerblog View Post

A little history lesson to some who think an inferior product won't steamroll the iPad:

Once upon a time, way back in the 80's, Microsoft shipped an inferior product they liked to call "Windows."

-end of story.

We are now in the 21st century, so why is Microsoft not dominating mobile, heck, they have a monopoly on the desktop, but guess which company makes more money?

In case you did not already know, Apple makes far more money than Microsoft.
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post #75 of 130
11/3/11 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

What do you mean by "trump"?

You're serious? If you don't know what I mean by my response then you're simply trolling or looking to pick a fight for no reason.
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post #76 of 130
11/3/11 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

What do you mean by "trump"?

Trump |trəmp|
verb
• beat (someone or something) by saying or doing something better: taste trumps most if not all other factors when consumers choose food products.
— outshine, outclass, upstage, put in the shade, eclipse, surpass, outdo, outperform; beat, better, top, cap; informal be a cut above, be head and shoulders above, leave standing.
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post #77 of 130
11/3/11 at 1:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Really?

Trump |trəmp|
verb
beat (someone or something) by saying or doing something better: taste trumps most if not all other factors when consumers choose food products.
outshine, outclass, upstage, put in the shade, eclipse, surpass, outdo, outperform; beat, better, top, cap; informal be a cut above, be head and shoulders above, leave standing.

Thank you, I assumed my response was obvious, maybe he does not speak English as a native language.
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post #78 of 130
11/3/11 at 1:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zindako View Post

You're serious? If you don't know what I mean by my response then you're simply trolling or looking to pick a fight for no reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Really?

Trump |trəmp|
verb
beat (someone or something) by saying or doing something better: taste trumps most if not all other factors when consumers choose food products.
*outshine, outclass, upstage, put in the shade, eclipse, surpass, outdo, outperform; beat, better, top, cap; informal be a cut above, be head and shoulders above, leave standing.

Thanks to both of you. I know what trump means. I somehow got the impression that it was used in the sense that quality is the decisive factor for people when deciding what to buy. Meaning that nobody ever buys anything else but the best quality product.

I would assume that quality, together with price, determine buyers behavior. I may be wrong.
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post #79 of 130
11/3/11 at 1:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zindako View Post

Thank you, I assumed my response was obvious, maybe he does not speak English as a native language.

Sure... let me break it to you that 50% of native English speakers have below average intellectual abilities. Leaps in logic are far more common than language errors...
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post #80 of 130
11/3/11 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Thanks to both of you. I know what trump means. I somehow got the impression that it was used in the sense that quality is the decisive factor for people when deciding what to buy. Meaning that nobody ever buys anything else but the best quality product.

I would assume that quality, together with price, determine buyers behavior. I may be wrong.

Ah, I see your point. It does yet we'll still see Android-based and other low cost phones far outsell the iPhone in unit shares, and the iPhone at $199 for 16GB isn't really that expensive and I think plenty of buyers do realize the most expensive component of their purchase in their contractual obligation.

Android is quickly becoming the feature phone OS of the future. It's also a powerful smartphone OS with plenty of potential, but I don't think that is where it will be most prevalent in the long run.

Also, not always does a good, quality product at a reasonable price work out. Just look at WP7 in today's market. Now MS has deep pockets that it can work on WP for many years without seeing a profit so it could prevail yet as of right now I think they are still losing marketshare. Can't wait to get the Nokia N9.
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