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Google Chairman Eric tells US senators Apple's Siri could pose 'competitive threat' - Page 3

post #81 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

I agree there is much that's Applesque about the simple UI and the hidden smarts. What I object to is the unilateral reference to the scroll wheel when, in fact, a classic thermostat is round (I believe the round design predates the rectangular ones?).

Oh yeah! Definitely. Even after they started becoming "modern" with the rectangle shape (I assume it was just easier to cut a rectangular hole in drywall) they were using round dials.

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post #82 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

It's unlike Apple because Google uses its dominance (i.e., profits) in search to leverage itself into other markets by dumping (i.e., giving away for free) products in other markets to achieve dominance there as well. That's classic monopolistic behavior and not at all how Apple operates.

I don't agree that is classic monopolistic behaviour. On the other hand, there is an interesting point here - if not Android, what choices would the likes of HTC, Samsung and others have? They would have been left to customize Linux on their own or continue with Windows Mobile. I'm not sure the smartphone world would be a better place. Would iPhone alone have pushed MS to retrench and come up with a new approach?
post #83 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

I don't agree that is classic monopolistic behaviour. On the other hand, there is an interesting point here - if not Android, what choices would the likes of HTC, Samsung and others have? They would have been left to customize Linux on their own or continue with Windows Mobile. I'm not sure the smartphone world would be a better place. Would iPhone alone have pushed MS to retrench and come up with a new approach?

That's an interesting question, but I don't think WP7 today would be much different without Android because iOS would still the biggest obstacle for MS to overcome in the mobile space. The only difference would likely be Apple having more percentage but MS may still have had close to what it has now with or without Android's presence.
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post #84 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Oh yeah! Definitely. Even after they started becoming "modern" with the rectangle shape (I assume it was just easier to cut a rectangular hole in drywall) they were using round dials.


I would be surprised if they didn't start with the classic thermostat as their design template. Look at the similarities down to the concentric circles and the scale. And another Applesque element here is that they have taken a classic beige product and turned it into something easy on the eyes.

If I am not mistaken, it does not even use battery power? Now that's brilliant, if true.
post #85 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That's an interesting question, but I don't think WP7 today would be much different without Android because iOS would still the biggest obstacle for MS to overcome in the mobile space. The only difference would likely be Apple having more percentage but MS may still have had close to what it has now with or without Android's presence.

One difference: Samsung, HTC, etc. would have no alternative to Windows Mobile (sure Samsung can continue to pretend they can roll their own). So perhaps (and I am guessing) the pressure on MS would have been less.
post #86 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

If I am not mistaken, it does not even use battery power? Now that's brilliant, if true.

When I read it had a built-in Lithium-Ion battery I assumed it would have to be periodically replaced as the wall power wasn't enough to power this thermostat (which is also why they gave you the Nest screwdriver).

You are right in that it doesn't need recharging but it does use battery power.

»

http://support.nest.com/customer/por...eed-batteries-

Quote:
Does the Nest Learning Thermostat need batteries?

The Nest Learning Thermostat is equipped with a self-recharging lithium-ion battery. This battery is charged through everyday use of the thermostat and doesn’t need a power adapter or charger. The lifetime of the battery is about 7-10 years and can be replaced by contacting us at support@nest.com.

Last Updated: Nov 02, 2011
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post #87 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

No... You were banned because you are sick and need professional psychiatric help.

http://articles.sfgate.com/2008-03-2...trunk-sleeping

Oh moderator!

Can I respectfully suggest we leave this individual alone (not you, the PeterMC dude)?
post #88 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

When I read it had a built-in Lithium-Ion battery I assumed it would have to be periodically replaced as the wall power wasn't enough to power this thermostat (which is also why they gave you the Nest screwdriver).

You are right in that it doesn't need recharging but it does use battery power.

»

http://support.nest.com/customer/por...eed-batteries-


Oh, thanks. I missed that. I just read somewhere that they worked really hard to minimize power usage and made the wrong assumption.
post #89 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Okay, he's talking to an antitrust committee. Does that mean Google's being searched for having a search monopoly?

Is he claiming Siri is a competitor in this field, ending the monopoly?

Because Siri only uses Wolfram|Alpha for conversions and whatnot. Google is still used for everything else

Can you elaborate on the "whatnot"? The friendship between Jobs and Wolfram is well reported. I'm curious about how intertwined Siri and WolframAlpha are.
post #90 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

To be fair, why isnt the Senate committee grilling Apple with its monopolistic market share of the Tablet market?

Double standard?

Dont get your hopes up too high Apple fans, because the yard stick to a competitive landscape in the eyes of the Senators is anyone having greater than 90% of any market is deemed a monopoly.

Apple should be next on target.

Wrong! Things aren't that simple

1) A merger of 2 small Southern California supermarket chains was prevented because the resulting 7-10% market share would have tended towards a monopoly (Yahoo merger Vons Shopping Bag).

2) IBM in the 1960s was investigated because they held 97% of the [maimframe] computer market. It was found that IBM had attained this position legally by providing superior products and services (Bing IBM monopoly).

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post #91 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

One difference: Samsung, HTC, etc. would have no alternative to Windows Mobile (sure Samsung can continue to pretend they can roll their own). So perhaps (and I am guessing) the pressure on MS would have been less.

1) But WinMo, Symbian, and BB OS-based devices would have still been getting killed by the change to the market introduced by Apple. While Android can claim all these activations it's Apple that is hurting these companies by stealing all the profits from the upper-end of the market. Surely this can be debated and I can easily see a counter position to my own, but I think all the vendors would have been scrambling just as much if Google hadn't ridden Apple's tail into the smartphone market.

2) I think both Bada and WinPh7 are great OSes. Bada is still struggling with building their app portfolio but WinPh7 is looking healthy with 35k. Clearly not as much as either Android or iOS platforms but you get to a point that the number no longer matters. I think MS is nearing that threshold now it just needs to get a foothold in the market. As Pogue said, it's a Catch-22, "Windows Phone isnt popular because it isnt popular." Which is a shame. I'm trying to get one of the blue Nokia N9 WP7 devices sent to me from Finland.
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post #92 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

Documented by Steve Jobs recorded on video. Search the Internet for it.

It's documented that you are wrong about this. Search the internet for it.
post #93 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Can I respectfully suggest we leave this individual alone (not you, the PeterMC dude)?

I agree. I had my fun but this isn't just standard trolling behaviour. I'm a little scared right now and probably won't head to Standford to eat my baloney and cheese sandwich after all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Oh, thanks. I missed that. I just read somewhere that they worked really hard to minimize power usage and made the wrong assumption.

I guess it just sips the power from the standard thermostat hookup. I didn't think that would be enough to charge it but I think the standard are 24V hooks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

I'm curious about how intertwined Siri and WolframAlpha are.

Judging by my use of Siri all numerical calculations are from Wolfram-Alpha. The results between W-A on Siri and their website have identical results right down to the the images of the minimal currency values. Seems like they struck a pretty nice deal with them that will bring W-A to the masses in a way that wasn't before possible.

»

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i...25+of+%2435.15
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post #94 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

So far, Google is using Siri to serve their purpose by trotting it out in front of anti-trust regulators. Picture Alfred E. Neuman as Eric Schmidt saying: "What, me search monopoly?"

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post #95 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Speaking of adjusting your home's thermostat

»

http://www.nest.com/living-with-nest/index.html Ain't that just the coolest thing? I had once thought of getting into this business to make the home HVAC smarter and more energy efficient. I'd like to eventually see that homes that can control the vents to each room/quadrant so that rooms can be individually controlled without needing individual heating and A/C units, just individual system controls.

You'd want such a system to automatically close doors and seal them because air traveling from one room to another can cause the HVAC system to "fight itself" trying to keep one room warm and the other cold.

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post #96 of 232
The stupid media created a fake target for Google to get away with this prob. Siri is not a threat to Google search as I've said in another thread, what Siri can do right now, are stuffs you won't want to use Google search for. Sad.
post #97 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


Haha! That's the one!

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post #98 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

You'd want such a system to automatically close doors and seal them because air traveling from one room to another can cause the HVAC system to "fight itself" trying to keep one room warm and the other cold.

"Nest, open this door. I need to use the bathroom"
"I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that. "

You are right about it fighting itself but with a system that knows the details of each room's temperature and when they are in use it can intelligently optimize the system. I don't think have hermetically sealed doors is a viable solution even though they technically would keep the air from seeping.
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post #99 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

"Nest, open this door. I need to use the bathroom"
"I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that. "

"Command authorization Picard-zero-two-alpha"

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post #100 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Speaking of adjusting your home's thermostat

»

http://www.nest.com/living-with-nest/index.html Ain't that just the coolest thing? I had once thought of getting into this business to make the home HVAC smarter and more energy efficient. I'd like to eventually see that homes that can control the vents to each room/quadrant so that rooms can be individually controlled without needing individual heating and A/C units, just individual system controls.

That is a pretty cool thermostat. $249 is a bit pricey unless you just like fancy gadgets. It might save enough to break even if you spend a lot on heating or cooling. BTW your idea about adjusting dampers to create zones is exactly how conventional HVAC works in commercial and large residential installations. You don't need a sepate A/C unit for each zone.

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post #101 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Can you elaborate on the "whatnot"? The friendship between Jobs and Wolfram is well reported. I'm curious about how intertwined Siri and WolframAlpha are.

Sure, I think I can.

Well, I would imagine all conversions are Wolfram|Alpha from what I've seen of the ads

All of the definitions are through them, too. Also, any relationships between objects. And, obviously, complex math. And abstract concepts. And acronyms. And jokes. And illegal crap. And also stuff that can't really be accurate.

Please excuse any and all language on all of those, particularly the name of the site

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post #102 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

That is a pretty cool thermostat. $249 is a bit pricey unless you just like fancy gadgets. It might save enough to break even if you spend a lot on heating or cooling. BTW your idea about adjusting dampers to create zones is exactly how conventional HVAC works in commercial and large residential installations. You don't need a sepate A/C unit for each zone.

1) I think it looks promising enough that it could save you money in the long term. Even a savings of just $5/month is $60/year which is paying off the device in little over 5 years. That seems like a lowball savings if you currently don't have a programmable thermosat or simply don't program your thermostat at all or well.

2) Yeah, that's what I was getting it. I'm glad to hear these are becoming more common in residential units but I still see basic, single or dual air handlers in even upscale residential spaces.
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post #103 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Sure, I think I can.

Well, I would imagine all conversions are Wolfram|Alpha from what I've seen of the ads…

All of the definitions are through them, too. Also, any relationships between objects. And, obviously, complex math. And abstract concepts. And acronyms. And jokes. And illegal crap. And also stuff that can't really be accurate.

Please excuse any and all language on all of those, particularly the name of the site…

Nie post but I didn't see proof on many of the images that they were from W-A. I'll query Siri to verify the source...

edit: Yep, all from W-A. The only thing about Siri using Google is Maps... for the time being.
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post #104 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) I think looks promising enough that it could save you money in the long term. Even a savings of just $5/month is $60/year which is paying off the device in little over 5 years. That seems like a lowball savings if you currently don't have a programmable thermosat or simply don't program your thermostat at all or well.

Agreed. It wouldn't do me any good though as I only use A/C once or twice a year. Same with heat. I really shouldn't mention it but that's the main reason I chose to move to SoCal. But none of you should get the wrong idea and move here. We have earthquakes, wildfires, mudslides, gangs, smog, traffic jams, high taxes, outrageous housing costs etc. Please stay where you are.

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post #105 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Agreed. It wouldn't do me any good though as I only use A/C once or twice a year. Same with heat. I really shouldn't mention it but that's the main reason I chose to move to SoCal. But none of you should get the wrong idea and move here. We have earthquakes, wildfires, mudslides, gangs, smog, traffic jams, high taxes, outrageous housing costs etc. Please stay where you are.

And heavy rain and hail this past week. You didn't use your heat the last few nights?
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post #106 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

And heavy rain and hail this past week. You didn't use your heat the last few nights?

Nope. My house is super well insulted..

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post #107 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

That is a pretty cool thermostat. $249 is a bit pricey unless you just like fancy gadgets. It might save enough to break even if you spend a lot on heating or cooling. BTW your idea about adjusting dampers to create zones is exactly how conventional HVAC works in commercial and large residential installations. You don't need a sepate A/C unit for each zone.

Well, it's not like something you'll be buying every year, or anything.
post #108 of 232
. . . let me get this straight. Schmidt is complaining that someone with no search experience is entering their core business and may take share? It's almost like someone with no phone experience entering Apple's new core business and taking share. The only thing that could be worse is if Steve Jobs had sat on Google's board.

Hypocrisy, thy name is Eric. What a dick this guy is.
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post #109 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

So far, Google is using Siri to serve their purpose by trotting it out in front of anti-trust regulators. Picture Alfred E. Neuman as Eric Schmidt saying: "What, me search monopoly?"

Hello, I'm Eric Schmidt... What, me search monopoly?


Created on my iPad!

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post #110 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Agreed. It wouldn't do me any good though as I only use A/C once or twice a year. Same with heat. I really shouldn't mention it but that's the main reason I chose to move to SoCal. But none of you should get the wrong idea and move here. We have earthquakes, wildfires, mudslides, gangs, smog, traffic jams, high taxes, outrageous housing costs etc. Please stay where you are.

You forgot to mention... Governor Moonbeam *


* not created on my iPad!

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post #111 of 232
Sorry, Schmidt, potential future threats to Google's current monopoly don't matter today. Whenever you've got a monopoly, it needs oversight and must obey the rules.
post #112 of 232
Try copying that, Eric.
post #113 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

. . . let me get this straight. Schmidt is complaining that someone with no search experience is entering their core business and may take share? It's almost like someone with no phone experience entering Apple's new core business and taking share.


It's like the Yankees taking legal action against Baltimore because they just signed a great hitter.

Or Google offering unlimited free email accounts in the face of pay what others can afford to offer?


I'm confused. The only thing that is clear to me is that Schmidt must be seriously worried to override whatever concern he may have had about Google and himself coming off like a completely unsympathetic character in this story.
post #114 of 232
Google has always been just another Microsoft. They can't invent anything, they just steal the resources around them and throw their money at it. Companies that can't think for themselves never stay around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

. . . let me get this straight. Schmidt is complaining that someone with no search experience is entering their core business and may take share? It's almost like someone with no phone experience entering Apple's new core business and taking share. The only thing that could be worse is if Steve Jobs had sat on Google's board.

Hypocrisy, thy name is Eric. What a dick this guy is.
post #115 of 232
Google search is great
Gmail is Great
Chrome is Great
Android is totally stolen

that's how google does business...some great and some stole products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Surprisingly civil discussion so far involving the Anti-Chri...I mean Google...sorry I get confused when I come on these boards...

You'd swear sometimes that Google supported Osama. -_-

Anywho, I don't see how Google is in violation of Anti-Trust laws.

Buzz probably as you were automatically enrolled in that craptastic attempt at a social network simply by having Gmail.

But I was never forced to join any of their services except that.

The only thing they do is create more products that compete in more markets and try and expand their business...

Not unlike Apple.

Like with tablets, mp3 players, computers, phones, TV boxes, and probably TVs in the future you are free to buy another item. If Apple is what you prefer then you buy it.

Like someone said if Apple forced you to have a Mac in order to use other Apple products then they'd have a problem.

I don't need Gmail, G+, Youtube, etc to use search (or any other item)

I don't see how they are in violation but I'm not that savvy on the laws at play.
post #116 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post



Google has its fingers in so many pies that who knows what it is.




Google is a One Trick Pony.
post #117 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Google is a One Trick Pony.

Google is a one trick pony that frequently enters itself into dog shows, Master's economics courses, BASE jumping exhibitions, yachting clubs, model rocket competitions, and TV chef dramas

Originally posted by Marvin

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post #118 of 232
Lets keep in mind that Eric Schmidt attended the 2011 BilderBerg Meeting

Here is a quick rundown of who BilderBerg Group is

http://www.jeremiahproject.com/newwo...nworder04.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Eric Schmidt, Google's chairman and former chief executive, admitted to the U.S. Senate antitrust subcommittee that Apple's new Siri personal assistant technology is a "significant development" in search and could pose a threat to his company's core business.

The comments came in the form of a statement to the subcommittee in response to questions from the senators after a hearing in September, as noted by Neowin.net. Schmidt's remarks, however, may be best taken with a grain of salt, as letter's objective is clearly to downplay Google's prominence, while highlighting its competitors.

The executive took special care to call out Siri as a new development that might supplant Google's search engine.

"Even in the few weeks since the hearing, Apple has launched an entirely new approach to search technology with Siri, its voice-activated search and task-completion service built into the iPhone 4S," he wrote.

Schmidt even went so far as to cite two publications for calling Siri a "Google killer" and Apple's "entry point" into the search engine business.

In the letter, Schmidt backpedaled from a previous statement in September 2010 where he had denied that Apple and Facebook were a "competitive threat."

"My statement was clearly wrong," he said. "Apples Siri is a significant developmenta voice-activated means of accessing answers through iPhones that demonstrates the innovations in search."

"Google has many strong competitors and we sometimes fail to anticipate the competitive threat posed by new methods of accessing information," Schmidt added, noting that Google competes against search engines (Microsoft's Bing, Yahoo!), specialized search engines (Kayak, Amazon, WebMD, eBay), social networks (Facebook, Twitter), commercial software companies (Apple, Microsoft), mobile apps and direct navigation.

Apple unveiled Siri in October as a prominent new feature of the iPhone 4S. The software, which Apple originally purchased in 2010, is currently in beta, though, and has experienced some embarrassing outages in the first weeks of usage.



In what could be considered a confusing mixed message from Google executives, Android chief Andy Rubin dismissed Siri last month. He said he doesn't believe that phones should be assistants and doubted whether people should communicate with their phones.

To the disappointment of those who readily declare Android as a dominant winner, Schmidt denied in his letter that Google has a "dominant position in the smartphone market." He cited a recent study from research group comScore as saying that "Android operates on only 34.1 percent while Apples iOS runs on 43.1 percent."

In fact, his comment is misleading, as comScore's figures relate to the whole mobile and connected device market. The actual report noted that Android does have the highest share in the smartphone market, with 43.7 percent in August. That difference is largely due to the fact that Apple has an unchallenged lead in the tablet market, as Android tablets have failed to gain much traction.

Schmidt also downplayed Google's role in the search engine market, instead attributing it to hard work and luck.

"I would disagree that Google is dominant," he said after senators asserted that Google is approaching a monopoly. "By investing smartly, hiring extremely talented engineers, and working very, very hard (and with some good luck), Google has been blessed with a great deal of success."

For their part, senators maintain that Google's 65 percent market share of all U.S. Internet searches, 94 percent share of the European market, and 97 percent share of all smartphone searches give it substantial market power that approaches a monopoly.
post #119 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Is it illegal to win in the US now? What a strange place.

How hilarious to hear 'open' google defenders begging for a world without choice.
Ok,I'll put into terms a 4 year old can understand.
With monopoly status, google can manipulate results to show only those from which they profit.
Kinda like thryre already doing, and for which they're being investigated.
post #120 of 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

Google is way too big. Take it apart with a crowbar. Apple's just about there, too. An unregulated corporation is to humanity what a flaming chain saw is to a five-year-old.

No corporation should ever be allowed to even approach a government in terms of power and wealth. Corporate boards don't sit general elections and corporate meetings are held in secret. While they're allegedly responsible to their stockholders, given that a tiny portion of the populace trades nearly all the stock, "stockholder" is nothing a euphemism for "oligarch," and in practice, multinational corporations are seldom held responsible for anything.

Particularly in a country where it's legal, cheap, and accepted for corporate money to openly buy Congressman a six-pack at a time, the whole notion of responsibility would resemble a farce by Moliere, but for the complete absence of wit.

Agreed.

People are arguing over whether Google has a "monopoly" or not but ignoring the fact that true absolute monopolies rarely if ever exist. Oligarchical control is essentially the same thing. In Canada for instance there are three big cell companies that control 80-90% of the market. They are all separate companies and no one has a "monopoly," but they all have the same prices and the same plans and they all treat the customers like dogs.

Chasing after the "true monopoly" and trying to peg Google or Microsoft with that term is a hopeless and essentially useless task. All of these companies are far too big and have far too much control over our lives. They have more control that the average Government and yet no one voted them in and no one can tell them what to do.

But that's what happens when you live in an essentially fascist society. :-/
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