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Retina Display for iPad 3 would enable precision required for pilots, doctors

post #1 of 64
Thread Starter 
While Apple billed the iPhone 4's Retina Display largely as a nicer way for consumers to view photos, a similar pixel density for iPad 3 would unlock very valuable capabilities for professionals, including pilots using the tablet for electronic charts and doctors using it for medical imaging.

Over the past year, an increasing number of airlines have started using Apple's iPad to replace conventional flight bags weighing 40 pounds or more. But regulations restrict the iPad from being used further than a 50-mile radius of the originating and destination airports.

"The charts for the in-route portion of a flight are still too complex to be displayed well on any electronic device," according to FAA spokesperson Les Dorr in a report by MacWorld.

While "about 75 to 80 percent of a flight is done using the autopilot, in conjunction with the flight management system," according to Flight Safety Foundation executive vice president Kevin Hiatt, the ability to use an electronic device to navigate highly complex flight maps could be expanded with the additional resolution in a "Retina Display" iPad.

Other professionals would similarly benefit from such a doubling improvement in resolution, which would pack four times as many pixels into the same screen area. Apple's iPad has already found high end uses in medical imaging, where it is uniquely approved for use by the FDA.



Retina Display likely to be unique to iPad

While alternative mobile platforms such as Android have enabled Apple's competitors to debut features such as larger screens to smartphones, Apple was first to bring a high resolution, "Retina Display" to a mainstream handheld device, and no mainstream Android phones yet offer anything comparable. The company would likely also be unique in bringing a Retina Display to mainstream tablets.

Apple designed iPad to work principally in a vertical, portrait-style orientation similar to a computer screen, while its competitors have largely focused on tablet devices with wide screen orientations more suited to watching movies. While consumers have largely ignored competing tablets as being poorly suited replacements for laptops, consumers, educators and professionals have snapped up tens of millions of iPads for a range of uses from entertainment to serious work.

Adding a Retina Display resolution of 2048 x 1536 pixels to the iPad was first rumored nearly a year ago, and evidence supporting the development has increasingly mounted as the company approaches its third generation of the first successful tablet computer.

Apple has already done the work in iOS to support a potential Retina Display for iPad, preventing the kind of fragmentation that has plagued other mobile operating systems that are generically designed to support anything, but which force developers to account for hardware differences on their own, without tight platform optimization for specific resolutions.
post #2 of 64
That's all WOOT.
post #3 of 64
Bring it on! I'll be happy to look at it.
post #4 of 64
Makes me sad to think that Steve Jobs won't be the person unveiling the ipad 3 when it finally gets shown. I'm sure one of the other guys will do a fine job, but it won't be the same.
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post #5 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodification View Post

Makes me sad to think that Steve Jobs won't be the person unveiling the ipad 3 when it finally gets shown. I'm sure one of the other guys will do a fine job, but it won't be the same.

It's true that nobody will ever be a better presenter than Steve Jobs was, but life goes on.

As long as Apple keeps pumping out kickass products that leaves their competitors in the dust and makes hordes of Fandroids wet their pants, then all is well!

I'm not one to believe in crazy rumors and speculation, but if this retina iPad 3 does indeed get released, then sign me up for one! Where can I place my preorder?
post #6 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple designed iPad to work principally in a vertical, portrait-style orientation similar to a computer screen

Last time I looked 99% of computer screens were landscape, not portrait orientation. If anything the iPad's competitor's widescreen screens are more similar to current widescreen computer screens.

I know what you were trying to say, but you failed totally to say it.
post #7 of 64
Quote:
Apple was first to bring a high resolution, "Retina Display" to a mainstream handheld device, and no mainstream Android phones yet offer anything comparable

Modern Android phones actually are pretty close. Maybe not as good or better, but they could be called "comparable" IMO.
post #8 of 64
Too bad most of the traditional medical imaging acquisition and retrieval systems are based on integrated patient record systems built on Windows. In order for iPad to be useful in a universal way in the medical imaging field, the entire system needs to be upgraded to be iPad friendly, and that will likely take a long time.

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post #9 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodification View Post

Makes me sad to think that Steve Jobs won't be the person unveiling the ipad 3 when it finally gets shown. I'm sure one of the other guys will do a fine job, but it won't be the same.

I totally agree with every aspect of what you said.
post #10 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelab View Post

If anything the iPad's competitor's widescreen screens are more similar to current widescreen computer screens.

And that's exactly why they suck. 4:3 is better for tablets than 16:9. A tablet is not a monitor that is on somebody's desk and it's not a TV that is on somebody's wall.

Most of Apple's no talent competitors and copycats just go with the flow. They figure that current monitors are 16:9, so they say "hey, let's make our tablets 16:9 too!". Actually, I doubt that they really gave much thought to it at all.

Apple, with years of research and planning, decides not to go with the flow and they decided that a 4:3 form factor is far better suited for a tablet. And guess what, tens of millions of people agree with them!
post #11 of 64
As great as this sounds on paper I question the ability to add 4x as many pixels and have the performance and battery life be equal or better. With the iPhone 4 the 4x pixel count was still less than the pixels of the iPad that predated it by 4 months despite having the same basic HW. So I hope this is true but I can't help but be skeptical.

At any rate, it seems likely Apple will beat their tablet competitors by fair amount in this area. Something that could very well make the unit share dominance of the iPad look much like the iPod for their respective markets.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DCstewieG View Post

Modern Android phones actually are pretty close. Maybe not as good or better, but they could be called "comparable" IMO.

I don't think it's far to compare pixels to sub-pixels of AMOLED. I think I did read about some new qHD displays that will be Super AMOLED+ that will be comparable but have they made it to market it yet?
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post #12 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

...
I don't think it's far to compare pixels to sub-pixels of AMOLED. I think I did read about some new qHD displays that will be Super AMOLED+ that will be comparable but have they made it to market it yet?

Not yet, as far as I know; the Droid RAZR is coming to Verizon in two days. The HTC Rezound (345 ppi IPS LCD) is due next week.
post #13 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

As great as this sounds on paper I question the ability to add 4x as many pixels and have the performance and battery life be equal or better. With the iPhone 4 the 4x pixel count was still less than the pixels of the iPad that predated it by 4 months despite having the same basic HW. So I hope this is true but I can't help but be skeptical.

Particularly since they're (apparently) thinking about adding a second backlight, and I know that when I have my backlight up on my iPad, I get 12 or so hours of reading but with it all the way down I'll get twenty-four or more.

Quote:
At any rate, it seems likely Apple will beat their tablet competitors by fair amount in this area. Something that could very well make the unit share dominance of the iPad look much like the iPod for their respective markets.

Wonder if anyone (meaning other companies) will complain that 'Apple is gobbling up all the 2048x1536 panels so we can't compete' or something. I don't think that ever happened with NAND memory, but I do remember articles about how Apple basically had a stranglehold on that market.

Quote:
I don't think it's far to compare pixels to sub-pixels of AMOLED. I think I did read about some new qHD displays that will be Super AMOLED+ that will be comparable but have they made it to market it yet?

Gosh, that's all so confusing. I just want QD-LEDs or MEMS displays to happen so we can bypass the decade-long experiment that has been OLED.

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post #14 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Not yet, as far as I know; the Droid RAZR is coming to Verizon in two days. The HTC Rezound (345 ppi IPS LCD) is due next week.

Droid RAZR is only Super AMOLED, and really falls short in the reviews.

THe HTC Rezound looks like it will be the first to best the iPhone's Retina Display. Only took a year and half, which is better than I expected from the competition but there are still other areas in which the display need to be tested, including how long the battery lasts which is pretty hefty at 1620mAh. I just hope that 1.5GHz CPU and 1280x720 IPS display aren't going to make this a poor compromise. Still, I'm glad to see other good (on paper) display panels coming to the competition.
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post #15 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Particularly since they're (apparently) thinking about adding a second backlight, and I know that when I have my backlight up on my iPad, I get 12 or so hours of reading but with it all the way down I'll get twenty-four or more.

That is one area I hope the iPad gets better. The backlight just isn't bright enough for me, especially picking it up after using the iPhone.

Quote:
Wonder if anyone (meaning other companies) will complain that 'Apple is gobbling up all the 2048x1536 panels so we can't compete' or something. I don't think that ever happened with NAND memory, but I do remember articles about how Apple basically had a stranglehold on that market.

Just wait for the lawsuit that claims Apple is illegally cornering the market on pixels.
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post #16 of 64
When there's no news or rumors about Apple or it's competitors, AppleInsider will post its fantasies about how awesome retina unicorns are. Brilliant.

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post #17 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Droid RAZR is only Super AMOLED, and really falls short in the reviews.

THe HTC Rezound looks like it will be the first to best the iPhone's Retina Display. Only took a year and half, which is better than I expected from the competition but there are still other areas in which the display need to be tested, including how long the battery lasts which is pretty hefty at 1620mAh. I just hope that 1.5GHz CPU and 1280x720 IPS display aren't going to make this a poor compromise. Still, I'm glad to see other good (on paper) display panels coming to the competition.

Droid is Super AMOLED Advanced, and I haven't been able to find out if it means pentile; the reviews I've read praise it.

I don't think there is competition regarding screen density, merely a gradual evolution towards better screens. If screen density was a factor, millions of people wouldn't still be buying the 3GS with its feature-phone-worthy 320x480 screen.
post #18 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Too bad most of the traditional medical imaging acquisition and retrieval systems are based on integrated patient record systems built on Windows. In order for iPad to be useful in a universal way in the medical imaging field, the entire system needs to be upgraded to be iPad friendly, and that will likely take a long time.

I respectfully disagree. The facts are quite clear.

1. Many vendors of acquisition modalities offer Unix or Windows compatible systems or even platform agnostic systems. I do believe Microsoft Windows is likely the most popular but not the only option.

2. Operating systems level integration isn't necessary due to the relatively robust standards in medical imaging such as DICOM, HL7 and IHE. There isn't anything that needs to be done to make these systems compatible, the integration standards have existed for decades.

3. Most of the more popular Picture Archiving and Communications Systems (as this type of software is known) vendors offer similar non-diagnostic viewing apps for iPhone and/or iPad. A quick search of iTunes App Store for "PACS" will reveal the truth.
post #19 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Droid is Super AMOLED Advanced, and I haven't been able to find out if it means pentile; the reviews I've read praise it.
.

I only read one:

http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/7/25...id-razr-review

"and second, the RAZR’s screen looks pretty bad. Super AMOLED panels use the inferior PenTile pixel arrangement, and the RAZR’s 256dpi pixel density doesn’t hide it — in fact, it seems to make it worse. Not only are individual pixels readily apparent, but text looks jaggy, there’s red fringing around vertical lines, and images seem to de-res when scrolling in the browser."
post #20 of 64
I can see the used for medical imaging but I call bullshit on aviation flight plans. We're not talking about Luke flying through the trenches of the Death Star. We're talking about largely automated planes and using an iPad to replace paper maps that are probably no bigger than a regular sheet of paper.
post #21 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

I only read one:

...

Thanks, I read more than one, but I find it pointless to post someone else's opinion. If the picture that they have provided in the review is of the actual RAZR screen, then it is clearly pentile. Nevertheless, the qualification is entirely subjective.
post #22 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Droid is Super AMOLED Advanced, and I haven't been able to find out if it means pentile; the reviews I've read praise it.

I don't think there is competition regarding screen density, merely a gradual evolution towards better screens. If screen density was a factor, millions of people wouldn't still be buying the 3GS with its feature-phone-worthy 320x480 screen.

Sure, the new HTC isn't going look better than the iPhone simply because the pixels are slightly denser, but it's in the area that user's with 20/15 or worse vision won't be able to discern the pixels. As Snowdog65 points out that isn't the case with vendors marketing PenTile sub-pixels as pixels. I think I read that 400 is what will be needed for PenTile to look good.

As for the iPhone 3GS, this applies to most other phones, too. There will always be a part of the population that is oblivious to new trends in tech or simply don't realize their benefit. I know people that are always late to the game but yet a yer or two later talking up a tech like it's newly released. The act remains that the goal posts for moden devices have moved to making the pixels invisible to the naked eye. This is a good thing.
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post #23 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Thanks, I read more than one, but I find it pointless to post someone else's opinion. If the picture that they have provided in the review is of the actual RAZR screen, then it is clearly pentile. Nevertheless, the qualification is entirely subjective.

'If' the picture is of the device? I understand questioning certain facts but to suggest The Verge is being dubious seems tinfoil hatish.
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post #24 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeMRT View Post

I can see the used for medical imaging but I call bullshit on aviation flight plans. We're not talking about Luke flying through the trenches of the Death Star. We're talking about largely automated planes and using an iPad to replace paper maps that are probably no bigger than a regular sheet of paper.

You really don't want someone trying to diagnose a 2 mm stone on your Abdominal CT scan on an iPad. Typically, we use 3 megapixel displays and often 5 megapixel displays or higher. We also use require very high contrast ratios rather than color (with some exceptions) with exceedingly high luminance which should be calibrated daily. You really don't want a radiologist diagnosing your imaging study on an iPad.

The iPad is fantastic for patient education, however. The ability to show a patient images at the point of care is further enabling a paradigm shift in medicine. Furthermore, once a radiologist has made their diagnosis, iPads are wonderful for referring physicians (often primary care physicians) view key images and better understand their patient's condition.
post #25 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

"The charts for the in-route portion of a flight are still too complex to be displayed well on any electronic device,"

Even with pinch to zoom?!

Too complex for any electronics device but okay to deal with Jeppesen's 'onion paper-like' victor airways and jet airways enroute charts.
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post #26 of 64
Pilots are already using iPads.....

http://www.marines.mil/unit/mcascher...ghanistan.aspx

http://www.marines.mil/Pages/PhotoDe...-AN675-003.JPG

Hell, we're even killing bad guys with them.
post #27 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeMRT View Post

I can see the used for medical imaging but I call bullshit on aviation flight plans. We're not talking about Luke flying through the trenches of the Death Star. We're talking about largely automated planes and using an iPad to replace paper maps that are probably no bigger than a regular sheet of paper.


Approach plates, SID's STAR's are smaller than regular sheet of paper but enroute charts... think your old fashion fold out road map of old in your cars glove box.
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post #28 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Droid RAZR is only Super AMOLED, and really falls short in the reviews.

THe HTC Rezound looks like it will be the first to best the iPhone's Retina Display. Only took a year and half, which is better than I expected from the competition but there are still other areas in which the display need to be tested, including how long the battery lasts which is pretty hefty at 1620mAh. I just hope that 1.5GHz CPU and 1280x720 IPS display aren't going to make this a poor compromise. Still, I'm glad to see other good (on paper) display panels coming to the competition.

RAZR? Rezound? Do Android manufacturers name their phonez for the usual suspectz?

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post #29 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeMRT View Post

I can see the used for medical imaging but I call bullshit on aviation flight plans. We're not talking about Luke flying through the trenches of the Death Star. We're talking about largely automated planes and using an iPad to replace paper maps that are probably no bigger than a regular sheet of paper.

The aviation maps require a pretty hefty briefcase. The size of each map is less relevant that the total amount of information they display (which might be quite high, depending on the DPI).
post #30 of 64
Not going to happen.

Expect to see Retina in either iPad 4 or 5. I don't for a second believe they have manufacturing costs low enough to implement Retina displays in an iPad 3... plus the additional power and processing... Nah. Not going to happen.

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post #31 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by TypeMRT View Post

I can see the used for medical imaging but I call bullshit on aviation flight plans. We're not talking about Luke flying through the trenches of the Death Star. We're talking about largely automated planes and using an iPad to replace paper maps that are probably no bigger than a regular sheet of paper.

The article was quoting an FAA spokesman, so unless you're a qualified airline pilot it's a bit of bad form to "call bullshit" on an official opinion. Not sure why you believe a supposed ipad3 retina display's extra resolution is critical for medical applications but not for aviation, where even more lives are at stake. The size of a paper map is not the issue, it's the density of information that matters. I've seen AAA road maps who's lines appear to be printed with some kind of vector graphics--not raster at all. There's an incredible amount of detail there, and I would guess it'd look pretty fuzzy on a non-retina display of the ipad's size.

And, btw, Luke turned off his targeting computer and used The Force. I would've too, considering the 1970's-era graphics their HUD displays were showing.
post #32 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

'If' the picture is of the device? I understand questioning certain facts but to suggest The Verge is being dubious seems tinfoil hatish.

I saw no text below the image. They could have been illustrating PenTile in general.

I usually give the benefit of the doubt to information on the Internet. It is easy to fake stuff, but also pointless.
post #33 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That is one area I hope the iPad gets better. The backlight just isn't bright enough for me, especially picking it up after using the iPhone.

Maybe you've got a problematic unit. Mine is so bright I can't take it more than 3/4 of the brightness up, especially in a dark room.
post #34 of 64
It's not enough. The primary target customer is the average consumer and only if something makes sense, considered in totality, for that target audience, will it be incorporated into future versions of the iPad. There is no way, if there are trade-offs that make the iPad less appealing to consumers, that Apple would implement such a change. For example if the iPad is rendered more expensive with poorer battery life as a result of going with a retina-like display, it's simply not going to happen, certainly if the motivation was to have pilots using the device for long flights. The iPad is not intended for that specialized segment. If it can work for such a specific use, great, the more the merrier. But it's not something that would factor in Apple's decision-making.
post #35 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

It's not enough. The primary target customer is the average consumer and only if something makes sense, considered in totality, for that target audience, will it be incorporated into future versions of the iPad. There is no way, if there are trade-offs that make the iPad less appealing to consumers, that Apple would implement such a change. For example if the iPad is rendered more expensive with poorer battery life as a result of going with a retina-like display, it's simply not going to happen, certainly if the motivation was to have pilots using the device for long flights. The iPad is not intended for that specialized segment. If it can work for such a specific use, great, the more the merrier. But it's not something that would factor in Apple's decision-making.

Just because Apple releases an iPad3 with higher resolution doesn't mean they will quit making the iPad2. With Apple's manufacturing and supply infrastructure, the more they make of a product the cheaper they are to make. The upfront costs of tooling and line setup get amortized out.

Expect Apple to keep the iPad2 around at a lower price point. The iPad3 will get higher resolution screens, 4G wireless, and probably more processing power and RAM.
post #36 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That is one area I hope the iPad gets better. The backlight just isn't bright enough for me, especially picking it up after using the iPhone.

With two LED light sources on opposite sides of the screens each unit only has to light half the screen, so they can be run at a lower power. Overall it might drain a little more power than a single light source, but the trade off is it also gives Apple the capability to provide greater brightness overall if desired, and probably a larger dynamic range and more even dispersion.
post #37 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by msimpson View Post

Expect Apple to keep the iPad2 around at a lower price point.

Interesting proposition. This might actually happen.

Quote:
4G wireless

Hold your horses, now.

Quote:
probably more processing power and RAM.

Yeah, I'm thinking A6 with a gig. Or, knowing Apple, A6 with 768 megs.

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post #38 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmvsm View Post

Maybe you've got a problematic unit. Mine is so bright I can't take it more than 3/4 of the brightness up, especially in a dark room.

Between the first and second generation I've Owen 5 different units, each with equivelent brightness. I think my needs just exceed the average user.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Yeah, I'm thinking A6 with a gig. Or, knowing Apple, A6 with 768 megs.

If they move to the 4x resolution they will need 1GB of RAM. AnadTech notes in their 4S review why Apple won't jump to 768MB.
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post #39 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodification View Post

Makes me sad to think that Steve Jobs won't be the person unveiling the ipad 3 when it finally gets shown. I'm sure one of the other guys will do a fine job, but it won't be the same.

I'll probably be very sad for the next few keynotes knowing that Steve Jobs won't ever be on stage again. He was just so entertaining to watch and listen to with his "amazing, magical, and awesome" dialogue, moving about as though he were holding court. What a terrible loss of such a captivating speaker. Now, every Apple executive speaker is going to have to face that unfair comparison at every keynote address. Of all the CEO's of the major tech companies, Steve Jobs was probably the best but unfortunately had to be the one to go and die at such a young age. Tragic.
post #40 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

You really don't want someone trying to diagnose a 2 mm stone on your Abdominal CT scan on an iPad. Typically, we use 3 megapixel displays and often 5 megapixel displays or higher. We also use require very high contrast ratios rather than color (with some exceptions) with exceedingly high luminance which should be calibrated daily. You really don't want a radiologist diagnosing your imaging study on an iPad.

And are all those MI monitors 10 bit?
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