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Retina Display for iPad 3 would enable precision required for pilots, doctors - Page 2

post #41 of 64
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Originally Posted by MacLurker View Post

The article was quoting an FAA spokesman, so unless you're a qualified airline pilot it's a bit of bad form to "call bullshit" on an official opinion. Not sure why you believe a supposed ipad3 retina display's extra resolution is critical for medical applications but not for aviation, where even more lives are at stake. The size of a paper map is not the issue, it's the density of information that matters. I've seen AAA road maps who's lines appear to be printed with some kind of vector graphics--not raster at all. There's an incredible amount of detail there, and I would guess it'd look pretty fuzzy on a non-retina display of the ipad's size.

And, btw, Luke turned off his targeting computer and used The Force. I would've too, considering the 1970's-era graphics their HUD displays were showing.

I've flown across country using the ipad2 for navigation in real instrument conditions. It is sharp enough to read all relevant data. Sharper displays would certainly improve readability, but are unnecessary for safe usage of enroute and approach charts.
post #42 of 64
Steve was a unique individual. That doesn't mean there aren't other truly gifted individuals who can wow us just like Steve did, but perhaps in a different way.

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Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

It's true that nobody will ever be a better presenter than Steve Jobs was, but life goes on.
post #43 of 64
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Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Droid is Super AMOLED Advanced, and I haven't been able to find out if it means pentile; the reviews I've read praise it.

That's strange, theverge said it was a rubbish display.

edit: I see others have already chimed in on this. It's interesting that you would be so dubious of theverge's credibility.
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post #44 of 64
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Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

I'll probably be very sad for the next few keynotes knowing that Steve Jobs won't ever be on stage again. He was just so entertaining to watch and listen to with his "amazing, magical, and awesome" dialogue, moving about as though he were holding court. What a terrible loss of such a captivating speaker. Now, every Apple executive speaker is going to have to face that unfair comparison at every keynote address. Of all the CEO's of the major tech companies, Steve Jobs was probably the best but unfortunately had to be the one to go and die at such a young age. Tragic.

Jony Ive is a terrific, charismatic & passionate speaker. He gets my vote to carry Steve's keynote torch.

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post #45 of 64
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Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Sure, the new HTC isn't going look better than the iPhone simply because the pixels are slightly denser, but it's in the area that user's with 20/15 or worse vision won't be able to discern the pixels. As Snowdog65 points out that isn't the case with vendors marketing PenTile sub-pixels as pixels. I think I read that 400 is what will be needed for PenTile to look good.

I wish they would just kill pentile and be done with it, but unfortunately it is a way for them to claim higher resolution with less subpixels (66%), so marketing will keep pentile and it's artifacts going for some time. Tin Foil hats aside, the Razor is clearly pentile.

As far as DPI, anything over 250dpi (with full subpixels) is invisible to me, anything beyond 300dpi (full subpixels) is crazy overkill. 400 dpi pentile only has as many sub-pixels as 267 DPI normal displays. So it makes sense that you might need 400dpi Pentile.

A 2048x1536 iPad would be crazy. I am dubious this can be ready for early 2012.
post #46 of 64
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Originally Posted by TypeMRT View Post

I can see the used for medical imaging but I call bullshit on aviation flight plans. We're not talking about Luke flying through the trenches of the Death Star. We're talking about largely automated planes and using an iPad to replace paper maps that are probably no bigger than a regular sheet of paper.

I totally agree. The flight cart limitation story is pure bullshit. Take a look at enroute airways paper charts (and any other ICAO or domestic FAA pubs). They are NOT hi-res. There is nothing preventing the iPad from being used in this capacity right now. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE BEING USED ALREADY RIGHT NOW!
post #47 of 64
The iPad typically covers about 20° in its long dimension when held at a reasonable 12 inch (300mm) close viewing distance. Seldom would it need to be closer.

Human vision tops out at around 100 lines per degree. That's 50 line pairs of black alternating with white. 20 degrees needs 2000 lines.

A 2048 pixel (long dimension) fits this exactly. Any higher resolution would be a waste.

But right now, it's half. And that's quite good. For X-rays, it's fine. They're not pixel-perfect at all.

Charts, maps and text are never designed to be read out at the absolute fail-point of human vision. Well antialiased graphic and text material are quite good at the current resolution.

That's why so very many pilots and doctors use iPads right this second.
post #48 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by hasmit View Post

I totally agree. The flight cart limitation story is pure bullshit. Take a look at enroute airways paper charts (and any other ICAO or domestic FAA pubs). They are NOT hi-res. There is nothing preventing the iPad from being used in this capacity right now. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE BEING USED ALREADY RIGHT NOW!

I agree too, and I'm a pilot (private).

I've seen this before. People confuse the screen resolution with the maximum resolution of the files that can be shown on the screen. When the iPhone 4 came out I heard several reporters talk about how the Retina Display would allow you to zoom in on high resolution image files to reveal more detail. But the "zooming in" only had to do with the resolution of the image file itself, not the display.

The same is true here. A Retina Display on an iPad may make the charts look nicer, but wouldn't reveal any details required for navigation.
post #49 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

Jony Ive is a terrific, charismatic & passionate speaker. He gets my vote to carry Steve's keynote torch.

I am not too sure he'd do it. From what I read about Ive, he is more of a private person than Steve was. And if he has to unveil a product, he will have to praise his own work. While he may be proud of his work, I don't think it is his nature to blow his on trumpet, so he may not make it. I guess it will be Tim.
post #50 of 64
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Originally Posted by DCstewieG View Post

Modern Android phones actually are pretty close. Maybe not as good or better, but they could be called "comparable" IMO.

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I don't think it's far to compare pixels to sub-pixels of AMOLED. I think I did read about some new qHD displays that will be Super AMOLED+ that will be comparable but have they made it to market it yet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Not yet, as far as I know; the Droid RAZR is coming to Verizon in two days. The HTC Rezound (345 ppi IPS LCD) is due next week.

The new Samsung Galaxy Nexus that was unveiled with Ice Cream Sammich is gonna be 1280x720, Super AMOLED+ I do believe - and within 5 dpi of the iPhone (+/-).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

And that's exactly why they suck. 4:3 is better for tablets than 16:9. A tablet is not a monitor that is on somebody's desk and it's not a TV that is on somebody's wall.

Most of Apple's no talent competitors and copycats just go with the flow. They figure that current monitors are 16:9, so they say "hey, let's make our tablets 16:9 too!". Actually, I doubt that they really gave much thought to it at all.

What most of them thought was that people wouldn't put up with black bars to watch wide screen content - which is what they optimized for - that and working in landscape orientation. And actually a 9.7" 4:3 Apple has more screen area than a 10.1 16:9 Android tablet.

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post #51 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

And that's exactly why they suck. 4:3 is better for tablets than 16:9. A tablet is not a monitor that is on somebody's desk and it's not a TV that is on somebody's wall.

I totally agree with you. I wasn't questioning Apple's choice of 4:3 (IMO they got it right), I was pointing out that the part of the article that said "the iPad's portrait screen is more like computer screens" was complete and utter BS. It's the fact that they are NOT like computer screens which makes them better.
post #52 of 64
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Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

When there's no news or rumors about Apple or it's competitors, AppleInsider will post its fantasies about how awesome retina unicorns are. Brilliant.

And if a unicorn is met in the wild they will report that "AppleInsider reported first about the unicorn"

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post #53 of 64
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Originally Posted by BestKeptSecret View Post

I am not too sure he'd do it. From what I read about Ive, he is more of a private person than Steve was. And if he has to unveil a product, he will have to praise his own work. While he may be proud of his work, I don't think it is his nature to blow his on trumpet, so he may not make it. I guess it will be Tim.

My money's on Phil Schiller being the guy who actually unveils most new products now. With Scott Forstall coming on when they want to talk about iOS.

The only problem I see is that with Schiller being the main guy they won't be able to use him as the comedy fall guy. Maybe they could get Ballmer to come on screaming 'developers, developers, developers' when they want to make the crowd laugh?
post #54 of 64
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Originally Posted by msimpson View Post

Just because Apple releases an iPad3 with higher resolution doesn't mean they will quit making the iPad2. With Apple's manufacturing and supply infrastructure, the more they make of a product the cheaper they are to make. The upfront costs of tooling and line setup get amortized out.

Expect Apple to keep the iPad2 around at a lower price point. The iPad3 will get higher resolution screens, 4G wireless, and probably more processing power and RAM.

Perhaps Apple might choose to offer the iPad 2 at a reduced price along with a higher-spec iPad 3 but the iPad 3 would, in that scenario, come in at roughly the same price as the current iPad. It is unlikely that Apple will want to end up with the latest iPad going up into a higher price range because the current iPad pricing is the sweet spot for such a device.

Also, if the more Apple makes of a particular product the cheaper it is to make, why would Apple want to fragment production in a segment it already dominates.

The competition can't seem to put a dent in a $500 iPad so why on earth would Apple choose to do it for them. Offer a cheaper alternative and sales of the primary iPad would be lower and hence cost per unit would increase. You only do this if there is a threat at a lower price point. Where is that threat coming from at this time?
post #55 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo View Post

Perhaps Apple might choose to offer the iPad 2 at a reduced price along with a higher-spec iPad 3 but the iPad 3 would, in that scenario, come in at roughly the same price as the current iPad. It is unlikely that Apple will want to end up with the latest iPad going up into a higher price range because the current iPad pricing is the sweet spot for such a device.

Also, if the more Apple makes of a particular product the cheaper it is to make, why would Apple want to fragment production in a segment it already dominates.

The competition can't seem to put a dent in a $500 iPad so why on earth would Apple choose to do it for them. Offer a cheaper alternative and sales of the primary iPad would be lower and hence cost per unit would increase. You only do this if there is a threat at a lower price point. Where is that threat coming from at this time?

I think that Kindle and Nook are threats from below. I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple iPad 3 improve speed, thinness, resolution, and battery life, and drop the price by $70, just to put the completion to bed once and for all.
post #56 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I think that Kindle and Nook are threats from below. I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple iPad 3 improve speed, thinness, resolution, and battery life, and drop the price by $70, just to put the completion to bed once and for all.

I don't even see the products as being related. Its like Jaguar dropping the price of Continentals by $10K to lure more VW Jetta buyers.

Competition is good, but I have always viewed Apple as not interested in the low end or catering to customers that can't afford their products.

If someone is looking at a Kindle or Nook, $70 off $500-800 products makes no difference. Granted Apple is not a company to back peddle in price when they are deploying technology that they had devoted significant R&D to such as manufacturing a Retina display that is affordable and with power and manufacturing requirements.
post #57 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That is one area I hope the iPad gets better. The backlight just isn't bright enough for me, especially picking it up after using the iPhone.


Just wait for the lawsuit that claims Apple is illegally cornering the market on pixels.

I don't think a second backlight means more battery usage, just better range. I very much doubt Apple will release an iPad with worse battery performance than previous gens, at least not in general performance. The battery life on my iPad 2 & my wife's iPad 1 are crazy, so much so that we never even really think about it. There isn't a device out there that comes close and the traditional Windows tablets that many businesses have used for portability in past are lucky to get 3hrs of use. If the performance drops by maybe 5 - 10% I doubt it will really effect to many decisions to buy considering that's still better than the competition.
post #58 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I think that Kindle and Nook are threats from below. I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple iPad 3 improve speed, thinness, resolution, and battery life, and drop the price by $70, just to put the completion to bed once and for all.

You can't have both, i.e. a dramatic upgrade in resolution and a $70 price drop. It's just not realistic to expect Apple could deliver state of the art tech and a lower price. It's also not likely that a drop of $70 would matter to the average consumer. If you're OK with paying $429 for an iPad, why would it be a problem to need to go up to $499, especially for one with a higher-res screen and all the other performance improvement that are undoubtedly in the pipeline.

Apple has never been about chasing the lowest possible price point. When competitors lowered their standards to put out awful $299 netbooks, Apple refused to do so. Instead they came up with a $500 iPad that consumers have more enthusiastically embraced. I doubt that competitors will be able to come in at significantly less than $500 without serious compromises. That's not Apple's thing and if there is a robust market for a $500 iPad, why sell it for a penny less.
post #59 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Thanks, I read more than one, but I find it pointless to post someone else's opinion. If the picture that they have provided in the review is of the actual RAZR screen, then it is clearly pentile. Nevertheless, the qualification is entirely subjective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

I saw no text below the image. They could have been illustrating PenTile in general.

I usually give the benefit of the doubt to information on the Internet. It is easy to fake stuff, but also pointless.

http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/8/25...d-razrs-screen

I like how information becomes unreliable when it doesn't suit one's agenda...

Top: Razr. No prizes for guessing which is the iPhone:

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post #60 of 64
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Originally Posted by sennen View Post

http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/8/25...d-razrs-screen

I like how information becomes unreliable when it doesn't suit one's agenda...

Motorola is introducing a new OS feature I've been wanting Apple to ad for years: Smart Actions. It's basically how you'd create a smart playlist in iTunes, you choose from a variety of options.

And unlike Siri where I think APIs could be really difficult logistically, Smart Action APIs seem pretty straightforward.

For instance, I use Beejive as my IM client on my iPhone when I'm away from my Mac, but I hate having both clients open at the same time. With a Smart Action I could have it log into Beejive when my iPhone is no longer on my ocal WiFi network and then log out of it again when it is on my local WiFi network.

A similar example would be to have Push email turn off when I'm on my home WiFi. You could even do it for when you're within x-range of a particular GPS location. Or have your phone automatically switch to vibrate mode when you're in the vicinity of your work or between 9pm and 7am because you have kids trying to sleep.

OK, maybe those aren't the most compelling examples, but I think my point is still clear: Smart Actions are a great idea.
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post #61 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple designed iPad to work principally in a vertical, portrait-style orientation similar to a computer screen,

hardly

THey designed it to be used whatever way someone wants to use it.

Some app designers however have a different view and they made their apps only work in portrait mode.
post #62 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That is one area I hope the iPad gets better. The backlight just isn't bright enough for me, especially picking it up after using the iPhone.

Amazon just loves to bring up that whole outdoor use thing.

If they go all Retina and don't deal with the backlight/outdoor issue I suspect a lot of folks will be pissed off majorly.
post #63 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by msimpson View Post

Expect Apple to keep the iPad2 around at a lower price point.

IF they do. and it's a rather big if, expect it to be the 16 GB wifi only iPad 2, possibly only in black. only $100-150 less than the current price and possibly sold only online or even just to institutions like schools, hospitals etc.
post #64 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacLurker View Post

The article was quoting an FAA spokesman, so unless you're a qualified airline pilot it's a bit of bad form to "call bullshit" on an official opinion. Not sure why you believe a supposed ipad3 retina display's extra resolution is critical for medical applications but not for aviation, where even more lives are at stake. The size of a paper map is not the issue, it's the density of information that matters. I've seen AAA road maps who's lines appear to be printed with some kind of vector graphics--not raster at all. There's an incredible amount of detail there, and I would guess it'd look pretty fuzzy on a non-retina display of the ipad's size.

And, btw, Luke turned off his targeting computer and used The Force. I would've too, considering the 1970's-era graphics their HUD displays were showing.

I see your point. I came across flippant, so that's my fault. I'm not a pilot. I do have experience with photography, CAD, GIS, and printing on a variety of media. I have also used Garmin Nuvi's, iPhones, and in-car navigation devices while driving.

Let's take a look try a real comparision. I found this multi-function flight dsplay from Aspen Avionics as an example. For nearly $8,000 (!) you get a TFT display that's 3.5" x 7" x 6" diagonal with a resolution of 400x760. I figure that works out to about 114 dpi. The image clearly shows it being used for instrumentation and mapping purposes. http://www.aspenavionics.com/index.p...s/efd1000-mfd/

These manufacturers could sell a dedicated iPad with no user-accessible software in a custom mount and still clear a nice profit. It's up to the FAA to get moving on validating that process and approving its use in flight.
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