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26% of Amazon Kindle Fire buyers delaying purchase of Apple's iPad - Page 2

post #41 of 73
11/9/11 at 8:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by henniman View Post

The more interesting point is: How many people originally planning to buy a Kindle Fire are now targeting an iPad3 or iPad2s since they heard of Amazon already preparing the successor model.

I don't know why this successor model is supposed to be an issue. Any company worth its salt would be working 2-3 generations ahead. This basic fact is not talked about a lot, but it's not a secret either. Johnathan Ive recently mentioned they have three year's worth of product designs they're working on.
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post #42 of 73
11/9/11 at 8:39am
This is so misleading
1) The survey was of 2600 "early adopter types" not a general public
2) Of those, 5% or 130 had pre-ordered a Kindle Fire
3) Of those 130 people 26% or 34 said they put off buying an iPad

So 34 people put off buying an iPad and pre-ordered a Kindle and this flashes around the inter web tech world like flu germs in an elevator.

One might ask how someone is classified as an early adopter type and hasn't purchased an iPad after 18 months and 10s of millions of sales but its so much easier to be mindless and repeat what others are saying than to think.
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post #43 of 73
11/9/11 at 8:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I think the market is down in general... AAPL about 1.6%

Of interest to this article:

- 1.56% AMZN
+ 1.83% BKS (Barnes and Noble)

But, your point is well taken!

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Day Breakfast View Post

This is so misleading
1) The survey was of 2600 "early adopter types" not a general public
2) Of those, 5% or 130 had pre-ordered a Kindle Fire
3) Of those 130 people 26% or 34 said they put off buying an iPad

So 34 people put off buying an iPad and pre-ordered a Kindle and this flashes around the inter web tech world like flu germs in an elevator.

One might ask how someone is classified as an early adopter type and hasn't purchased an iPad after 18 months and 10s of millions of sales but its so much easier to be mindless and repeat what others are saying than to think.

Not only that, but this news also brought down both AAPL and AMZN

Maybe 7 of the 34 hinted that they are also considering the Nook, hence the surge of BKS

It all makes perfect sense now!!!
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post #44 of 73
11/9/11 at 8:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by All Day Breakfast View Post

This is so misleading
1) The survey was of 2600 "early adopter types" not a general public
2) Of those, 5% or 130 had pre-ordered a Kindle Fire
3) Of those 130 people 26% or 34 said they put off buying an iPad

So 34 people put off buying an iPad and pre-ordered a Kindle and this flashes around the inter web tech world like flu germs in an elevator.

One might ask how someone is classified as an early adopter type and hasn't purchased an iPad after 18 months and 10s of millions of sales but its so much easier to be mindless and repeat what others are saying than to think.

It's even worse than that -- from the article:

Quote:
...5 percent of respondents said they have already preordered a Kindle Fire or are "very likely" to purchase soon.

It would be interesting to re-survey those 130 people and see how many Fire purchases are now being delayed in light of the Kindle Tablet.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #45 of 73
11/9/11 at 9:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by drdoppio View Post

not only that, but this news also brought down both aapl and amzn

Maybe 7 of the 34 hinted that they are also considering the nook, hence the surge of bks

It all makes perfect sense now!!!

- 1.65% aapl
- 1.75% amzn
+ 3.08% bks
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #46 of 73
11/9/11 at 9:04am
Count me in. The FIRE is gong to burn up the market!
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post #47 of 73
11/9/11 at 9:17am
from Apple 2.0

" In a note to clients issued Thursday, RBC's Mike Abramsky shares the results of a ChangeWave survey of 2,600 early adopter types. Two key findings:
5% of those surveyed said they had pre-ordered or were very likely to buy Amazon's (AMZN) new Kindle Fire, exceeding the 4% who said they were very likely to buy the original iPad in 2010.
26% of those 5% said they would delay or put on hold the purchase of a new iPad.
"Sustained Fire uptake and 'buzz,'" writes Abramsky, "will depend on consumer/reviewer reactions to Fire's user experience.""

5% of 2600 that said they would buy kindle.... 26% of that 5% would delay buying an iPad. Silly numbers.
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post #48 of 73
11/9/11 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Apple doesn't care about the other boys when it comes to how they make their decisions. Unless the other boys are cheating and stealing IP

They'll care if the other guys sell a lot of units and hurt iPad sales. And over the years there certainly have been features borrowed from Android and elsewhere, that sure looks like a reaction to the competition.
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post #49 of 73
11/9/11 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by xSamplex View Post

Count me in. The FIRE is gong to burn up the market!

You mean "Amazon's profits", right?
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #50 of 73
11/9/11 at 9:41am
That sounds like an amazingly low number. Wouldnt you think that nearly 100% of people who actually ARE buying a non-iPad tablet (as opposed to a black-and-white e-reader) would be buying just that tablet alone?

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post #51 of 73
11/9/11 at 9:58am
Apple has a 3/4 share of the tablet market. People who are thinking of getting a Kindle Fire are very likely to be people who were in general thinking of getting a tablet. People thinking of the Fire instead of an iPad make up less than 70% of the group that was in the market for a tablet in general. Additionally, some purchasers were thinking of getting a Kindle. With the super aggressive sell at a loss strategy, this seems about right and is slightly more favorable to Apple than other manufacturers.
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post #52 of 73
11/9/11 at 10:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

I am going to buy Kindles for my whole family, 3 each

None of them delays an iPad purchase


I totally agree. Tempted to get a Kindle or two to give as Xmas presents for family that just wants to have something portable to read books.

But definitely that won't delay me getting an iPad as soon as the next upgrade comes out, hopefully in January. I would wait for that regardless to get my first iPad so I can benefit from display and processor upgrades. And Siri on the iPad

Sure it would be nice if iPads were cheaper to give to my whole family, too. But I don't see Apple lowering the prices. I just like the fact that iPads are priced well and that they hold the prices with upgrades! Apple's margins are reasonable despite what others may say. That bit of extra money I pay for Apple stuff fuels the company so it can make vastly superior products. You really get what you pay for with Apple -- you get quality, visionary products, great customer service, etc, etc. Other products may give you something cheaper but they are just trying to buy market share -- haven't seen anything worth even considering for a real tablet. iPad is so much better it like comparing, well, apples and oranges.
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post #53 of 73
11/9/11 at 10:01am
- 1.68% aapl
- 1.24% amzn
+ 5.65% bks
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #54 of 73
11/9/11 at 10:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A new survey of customers who plan to buy Amazon's Kindle Fire touchscreen tablet found that 26 percent of those said the product has prompted them to delay or put on hold a purchase of Apple's iPad.

26% is a lot. A whole lot.

What are the initial sales projected at?
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post #55 of 73
11/9/11 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

26% is a lot. A whole lot.

26% of 5% -- or just about 1.3% of the total group. Well within statistical error. 1.3% isn't a "whole lot".

Not to mention, of course, all the other flaws in the survey (most of them cited above).
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post #56 of 73
11/9/11 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


I don't doubt that they'll sell well, but I wonder how many of their purchasers would have otherwise bought an iPad. I'll bet the number is fairly small - they're just too different to be directly competing.


No need to doubt, wonder or bet - according to the article, it is 26%.
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post #57 of 73
11/9/11 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtHarg View Post

So Apple will sell, what, 26,000 iPads less (or later) if Amazon sells 100,000 Fires. Won't make a dent in iPad sales.

Some are predicting sales of up to 5 million, reducing iPad sales by somewhat over 1 million.
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post #58 of 73
11/9/11 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Some are predicting sales of up to 5 million, reducing iPad sales by somewhat over 1 million.

And some, actually quite a few, predicted that the iPad would be a flop. Predictions are worthless and the Amazon Kindle Fire will have very little effect on the iPad market. They're two completely different things. One of them is tiny and isn't even true multitouch.

The main people who are interested in it are people with not much money to spend.
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post #59 of 73
11/9/11 at 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

No need to doubt, wonder or bet - according to the article, it is 26%.

That's not what it says. Does Google pay you extra when you grossly misinterpret things?
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post #60 of 73
11/9/11 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmvsm View Post

7" form factor is too small with the growing screen size of the smart phone. I thought that I might actually like it, but it looked cumbersome on the commercials if you were doing anything outside of reading an online book.

So you only use your cell phone for reading books too, then?
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post #61 of 73
11/9/11 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

No need to doubt, wonder or bet - according to the article, it is 26%.

And that's 26% of 5%, they only asked the question of those who have already ordered a fire. 2600 people participated in the survey, 130 of those have ordered a fire and were asked the question. So that "26%" is actually 34 people out of 2600.
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post #62 of 73
11/9/11 at 1:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickf View Post

The Fire and Nook tablets will take a bunch of share from Apple. I'm considering one, since I use my iPad primarily for reading. Yeah, I have a keyboard and all that for the iPad, but mostly I just do reading.

I have tons of games, but don't play them much. I read. I read. I read.

Amazon and Barnes and Noble will take a good chunk of share from Apple.

Yes, they are different types of devices, but a lot of people just want to read. The iPad does get heavy after a while.

Who cares if Android is forked and Amazon has to "maintain" Android. BN, too. So what?

The Nook is a fine device. The Fire will be a fine device. And the Nook tablet will be a fine device. All will have good sales.

End of story. Thanks.

Except, did you see the price of the 7" tablets? Nice. Very nice. Again, Apple will lose share. No one wants to pay $500 to read.

P

Although I get a lot additional functionality out of the iPad, I have to say, spot on.
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post #63 of 73
11/9/11 at 1:46pm
The Fire and the new Nook will affect Apple's market share numbers because the analysts will group these all in the same product category, even though from a technical point of view they're not anywhere close. But I don't see these new devices impacting Apple's iPad sales at all.

At best, these new devices are just an enhanced e-Reader, with color and media playback. The advent of the Fire has not changed my iPad purchase plans in the slightest. I still plan on purchasing a new iPad (3) next year. However, I now plan to purchase either a Fire or Nook in ADDITION to the iPad, for one purpose, and one purpose alone: A 'throw away' device for the kids to play with.
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post #64 of 73
11/9/11 at 2:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

And that's 26% of 5%, they only asked the question of those who have already ordered a fire. 2600 people participated in the survey, 130 of those have ordered a fire and were asked the question. So that "26%" is actually 34 people out of 2600.

Actually, it was people who had ordered a Fire or were planning to do so soon.


However, no one has caught the biggest flaw in the survey. These people are supposedly 'early adopters'. Yet they don't already have iPads. Now, if they're early adopters, but don't have iPads, then they must have some particular problem either with Apple or the iPad, so they're not representative.
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post #65 of 73
11/9/11 at 2:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

- 1.68% aapl
- 1.24% amzn
+ 5.65% bks

Not sure it means anything much at all. (The numbers at close are, btw, AAPL 2.7%, AMZN 3.1%, BKS +13.8%).

First, the market was down well over 3%. So, both AAPL and AMZN simply mirrored that. Second, wile it is true that BKS had a good day (+ ~17%, market-adjusted), that is because the stock has stunk for a while, and this news prompted some faint relief that they probably still have some life left in them. BKS (mkt cap ~800M) is not even a rounding error compared to AMZN (mkt cap ~$100B).
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post #66 of 73
11/9/11 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickf View Post

Apple should care and lower the price of the iPad. Price sensitivity. What will the market bear?

So you are saying that Apple should lower their prices to compete with an enhanced reader that is not as full-featured nor as capable as the iPad.

Ok then using your flawed logic I guess Mercedes should lower their prices to compete with KIA.
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post #67 of 73
11/9/11 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Actually, it was people who had ordered a Fire or were planning to do so soon.


However, no one has caught the biggest flaw in the survey. These people are supposedly 'early adopters'. Yet they don't already have iPads. Now, if they're early adopters, but don't have iPads, then they must have some particular problem either with Apple or the iPad, so they're not representative.

I suspect it is price sensitivity...

If there is a maximum $ amount that you are set to spend -- you:

1) don't buy anything above that amount.

2) buy something at or below that amount

3) don't buy anything -- you wait until you can buy what you want at a price you want to pay.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #68 of 73
11/9/11 at 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I suspect it is price sensitivity...

If there is a maximum $ amount that you are set to spend -- you:

1) don't buy anything above that amount.

2) buy something at or below that amount

3) don't buy anything -- you wait until you can buy what you want at a price you want to pay.

That's entirely true - but would mean that the 5% of 26% who allegedly delayed their iPad purchase weren't really likely to buy an iPad, anyway.
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post #69 of 73
11/9/11 at 6:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I think we're still in the "learning period" for what a tablet should be, for most people.

If you've never owned a tablet, you may be in the market for a big smart phone with better media performance. Email, browser, photos, movies and music, books, games (one or two of the currently most popular). Done. If that's all you'd ever want then a Fire would probably be a great choice, certainly an economical choice.

Apple, of course, is pushing the iPad towards laptop replacement territory. If you're trying to get by without a laptop on your next trip, the Fire would probably be frustrating.

As tablets become more ubiquitous, and the pool of potential buyers become more sophisticated about what a tablet can potentially do, I think somewhat limited devices will be a harder sell, even at low price points. No one buys a media laptop thinking that they might need to get a fully featured laptop to go along with it at some point, but that's because years of use have educated the buyer about what a laptop "ought" to do.

I see the tablet market divided into 3 separate sections:

-The e-book readers. These are your kindle and nooks. Specific use and designed for reading books (duh).

-The media tablets. This is the market that Apple pretty much created. Designed for general usage, they excel in 'media consumption' roles with a light bit of productivity.

-The tablet PCs. these are your convertible, stylus based tablets running windows. Designed for very general use, they excel in productivity tasks while mobile.

For the most part, I don't see these 3 segments competing with each other. You pretty much know which of the 3 types of tablets you want from the get-go. We are, however, starting to see tablets that blur the lines between these distinctions.
The Kindle Fire and the Nook Color occupy a space somewhere between e-readers and media tablets, whether it works or not remains to be seen.
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post #70 of 73
11/9/11 at 6:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's entirely true - but would mean that the 5% of 26% who allegedly delayed their iPad purchase weren't really likely to buy an iPad, anyway.

No, that's exactly backwards. The 74% are unlikely to buy an iPad. The 26% were likely to buy.
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post #71 of 73
11/9/11 at 9:13pm
It is the price factor which determine the purchase of Fire and not functionality per se.

Just like the PC war it is price driven.

Remember the webos tablet which sold like hot cakes and I wonder how many are regretting they what they did.

I believe as long as Apple keep on their course of making the iPad better they have no fear of any android tablets.
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post #72 of 73
11/10/11 at 3:59am
Meh, I like the Nook Tablet better for $50 more. It's a good enough device to let the kids have.
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post #73 of 73
11/10/11 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

No, that's exactly backwards. The 74% are unlikely to buy an iPad. The 26% were likely to buy.

Is it really too much trouble to check the facts before posting your nonsense?

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...ples_ipad.html
http://photos.appleinsider.com/changewave-111109.jpg

5% of responders said that they had purchased a Fire or were planning to. Of that 5%, the question was asked whether they had delayed or put on hold the planned purchase of other devices. 26% said that they had delayed or put on hold their iPad purchase. That tells you nothing about the other 74% except that they did NOT delay or put on hold their iPad purchase. They might never have planned to buy one in the first place. They might have decided to proceed with their iPad purchase without delay. Or they might have decided to accelerate their iPad purchase after seeing the Fire. Once again, your interpretation has no bearing on reality.
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