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Adobe confirms it will no longer develop Flash for mobile browsers - Page 4

post #121 of 171
11/9/11 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Although I agree with Gruber's overall point, he lost me with the last, bolded sentence. We iOS users didn't "magically" have access to the full web and HTML5/video/animation playback beginning in 2007.

It hasn't been until that past year/year and a half or so that I've been able go to about 90% of my favorite websites and actually get HTML5 compliant video and animations on pages instead of the broken Flash icon. So to say that we've been benefiting since 2007 seems a bit disingenuous.

That is unless I'm not understanding his statement which I probably am

I think the benefit he was referring to was not the eventual arrival of HTML5, but the exclusion of Flash. From the intro of the iPhone, iOS users have been enjoying more efficient and less power hungry devices.
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post #122 of 171
11/9/11 at 1:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I just hope Flash doesn't go away on the desktop¡ I don't know what I'd do if I went to a restaurant's website and actually got useful information.

I can't believe that graphic left out the obnoxious music that plays at full volume. But otherwise they nailed it.
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post #123 of 171
11/9/11 at 1:07pm
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post #124 of 171
11/9/11 at 1:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

nobody could hack a machine running google chrome as the browser at the last hack attack contest thingy. Flash doesn't pose a threat like that anymore.

Flash is a total turd in OSX, but only because Apple refused to work with Adobe at improving it. Adobe worked with Microsoft, and the result has been awesome, and a driver in it's acceptance across the web.

I'm all for moving to HTML5, but we aren't quite there yet. Flash is still being used heavily, and Adobe showed us it can run fine in Android. You admit you removed it from your Android device before even giving it a chance, and you claim you only use it on your tablet when you want to run the battery down? Those two statements alone would lead me to believe you're lying about even owning an Android device.

Not true at all. Apple gave Adobe many chances to improve mobile flash, but they never delivered a suitable product. Adobe never knocked it out of the park with desktop flash either, but Apple at least found it to be adequate, and so they allowed it to remain in OS X. But for mobile, they never got it right, and Apple is not about to ship a product with Flash support if it halves the battery life. This would be suicidal, especially in the early days when the iPhone was too expensive for most adopters.

Even after Apple omitted Flash with the first iPhone, Apple still left the door open almost begging Adobe to deliver a good product and made available their engineers to work with them, but they couldn't deliver.

This is all on Adobe.
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post #125 of 171
11/9/11 at 1:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

This isn't is a suburban elementary school. Not everyone gets a trophy for participating. We keep score, and decided winners and losers.

Although, it seems all of Apple's competitors are getting a gold star for participating in the tablet market while Apple got berated for its original, breakthrough iPad.

Berating Apple for its innovative ideas and products, and giving a lot of credits to others who try unsuccessfully to copy them beats me too.
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post #126 of 171
11/9/11 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Yes, ironic isn't it?: If the claims about battery life are true, iPhone just lost one more advantage.

Very true. And if the mobile industry had gotten rid of flash years ago, all phones would have been on the same playing field all along (as it pertains to battery life). Now other companies can see the rewards that Apple has had these past few years.

EDIT: I should also add though that, regardless of a better or equal battery life, no other company can provide me the combination of hardware and software that Apple can. So, better battery life for awhile was great, but was only icing on the already amazing cake.
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post #127 of 171
11/9/11 at 1:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

Ding dong the witch is dead, the witch is dead, ding dong. the wicked witch is dead.

Oh... sorry.

Mmm... I remember listening to a lady executive say that Adobe's objective with Flash was to: "make content rich" and "give content reach"...

Rich and Reach -- I thought that had a nice ring to it, but didn't go far enough. So I added a word to describe the user experience:

Rich, Reach and Retch...


But, Witch, Weach and Wetch... sounds good too
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post #128 of 171
11/9/11 at 2:01pm
Everything has to start somewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Well, that's sorta my point. HTML5 may have been there in 2007, but we certainly weren't benefitting from it then like we are today.

It'd be like saying iPhone 4S users have been benefiting from Bluetooth 4.0 since October 2011. Well, uhh, there aren't any BT4.0 peripherals out there to use
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post #129 of 171
11/9/11 at 2:41pm
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post #130 of 171
11/9/11 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

I can't believe that graphic left out the obnoxious music that plays at full volume. But otherwise they nailed it.

LOL They did completely miss that one.
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post #131 of 171
11/9/11 at 2:57pm
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post #132 of 171
11/9/11 at 3:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Flash-derived iPad game tops App Store charts
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20...-store-charts/

That's old news. I actually have that game for Mac OS X on STEAM. It's an ok game, but what's your point? Flash still sucks.
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post #133 of 171
11/9/11 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

That's old news. I actually have that game for Mac OS X on STEAM. It's an ok game, but what's your point? Flash still sucks.

Be careful here... lest you be accused of making an ad trollinem attack!
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #134 of 171
11/9/11 at 4:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Eggleston View Post

I so strongly disagree with this. Having developed in both Java and iOS, I can tell you that developing for iOS is by far an easier solution. I have yet to see any kind of GUI that allows you to model data or create the GUI for Java that is anywhere close to Xcode.


I do understand the Java more closely resembles other languages (as far as look of syntax, and the way it handles OOP), however once you have gotten over the initial hump of learning Objective-C and why it uses the messages approach; doing the other way just seems archaic to me.

OK. I am not a developer

My understanding is that Java's 'write once, run everywhere' approach while not perfect greatly simplifies the task of writing apps for multiple platforms. Apple's Xcode/Objective-C environment is no doubt elegant.

The central point of my response is that Android and Blackberry are mobile platforms that DO have runtime environments...
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post #135 of 171
11/9/11 at 4:26pm
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post #136 of 171
11/9/11 at 4:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

He's giving God tips on Intelligent Design telling him he needs to focus this products better starting with discontinuing the designed-by-committee platypus.

(I hope that doesn't offend anyone)


I am grievously offended!
Sincerely yours,
Hon. William T. Platypus
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post #137 of 171
11/9/11 at 4:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by drdb View Post

I heard that Google are offering the square root of minus one for these patents now.

*Imagine* how rich you would be with that amount of money!
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post #138 of 171
11/9/11 at 4:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DESuserIGN View Post

I am grievously offended!
Sincerely yours,
Hon. William T. Platypus

Always a joker in the bunch.
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post #139 of 171
11/9/11 at 4:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Flash-derived iPad game tops App Store charts
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20...-store-charts/

Yup, that's the future of Flash...native apps. Not mobile web.
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post #140 of 171
11/9/11 at 4:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Yup, that's the future of Flash...native apps. Not mobile web.

He tried to paint Apple in a bad light just to prove that native apps are better than using a plugin..
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post #141 of 171
11/9/11 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Although I agree with Gruber's overall point, he lost me with the last, bolded sentence. We iOS users didn't "magically" have access to the full web and HTML5/video/animation playback beginning in 2007.

I think you have missed his point. iOS users couldn't care less about this so-called "full web", they'd rather a better experience. He said "it will make the entire web better." and we've had this better experience of the mobile web since the first iPhone came out.
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post #142 of 171
11/9/11 at 5:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chronster View Post

I'm saying Adobe got flash to work fine in Android, and it's a total lie to say it doesn't.

Works fine? Really? We've even had other Android users post here to say otherwise.

Quote:
BTW, the only reason you people are "html5 people" is because the salesman Steve Jobs sold you bs that you gobbled up. He said flash couldn't run on mobile platforms, and also said it was a battery drain. Neither of those things turned out to be true.

Quote:
PS. Do you mind linking to where Steve Jobs said Flash couldn't run on mobile devices?

I think you missed this question. And he was correct on the battery drain as well.
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post #143 of 171
11/9/11 at 5:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazda 3s View Post

Although I agree with Gruber's overall point, he lost me with the last, bolded sentence. We iOS users didn't "magically" have access to the full web and HTML5/video/animation playback beginning in 2007.

It hasn't been until that past year/year and a half or so that I've been able go to about 90% of my favorite websites and actually get HTML5 compliant video and animations on pages instead of the broken Flash icon. So to say that we've been benefiting since 2007 seems a bit disingenuous.

That is unless I'm not understanding his statement which I probably am

I don't think Gruber's comment is wrong, I think you are comparing today's open webcode to webcode of 2007. Even if Apple bent over backwards for Adobe the only Flash Apple could have possibly added was Flash Lite which wouldn't be the full web either since it wasn't even close to a modern version of Flash.

On top of that, there were years of fervent development that occurred because Apple pointed out Flash's faults (though MS did a lot, too, with Silverlight that also appeared on the scene in 2007). It took Adobe years to get the whole touch system worked out.

Even if that was all these issues were "magically" worked out in 2007, there's still the issue of Flash pages being designed for pointer(mouse) inputs and for larger screens. Yet with the iPhone, the browser was good. It was responsive. It was the first phone that didn't need to have a mobile version of a site for that site to be useful, yet (ironically) because the browser was so useful the web quickly moved to make an iPhone optimized option, even going so far as to add iPhone home screen icons so you can save a site's access to your Home Screen.

PS: When was the video tag added to iOS? I thought it was there since v1.0.
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post #144 of 171
11/9/11 at 5:48pm
The first stage is denial.

Flash player 10.1 will kill HTML5
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post #145 of 171
11/9/11 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob55 View Post

Too bad he didn't get to see this day. It would have been interesting to hear what he would have had to say.

No doubt!
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post #146 of 171
11/9/11 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

This is terrible news for savvy consumers who want the full web experience on their mobile devices.

ROFLOL - you can't be serious! The full web should not have proprietary technology running it that drains the battery, slows down the entire web experience and clogs the pipes with buggy bloated crapware. Get over yourself.
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post #147 of 171
11/9/11 at 9:23pm
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post #148 of 171
11/9/11 at 10:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

This is terrible news for savvy consumers who want the full web experience on their mobile devices.

Once Flash becomes obsolete the full web won't consist of Flash content idiot.
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post #149 of 171
11/9/11 at 10:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by eksodos View Post

This is terrible news for savvy consumers who want the full web experience on their mobile devices.

Eksodos, it appears that a significant percentage of AI posters are humor impaired!
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post #150 of 171
11/10/11 at 3:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


God status achieved.

... at night.

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... at night.

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post #151 of 171
11/10/11 at 4:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

ROFLOL - you can't be serious! The full web should not have proprietary technology running it that drains the battery, slows down the entire web experience and clogs the pipes with buggy bloated crapware. Get over yourself.

If used correctly, Flash can be a really interesting platform (I develop games in Flash) because of the ease of publishing to multiple devices, etc. Unfortunately, on mobile it is true that the processors of the phones could not handle Flash because Flash unfortunately allows you to be lazy about optimizing, which usually leads to the battery and slow problems.
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post #152 of 171
11/10/11 at 4:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidlougheed View Post

If used correctly, Flash can be a really interesting platform (I develop games in Flash) because of the ease of publishing to multiple devices, etc. Unfortunately, on mobile it is true that the processors of the phones could not handle Flash because Flash unfortunately allows you to be lazy about optimizing, which usually leads to the battery and slow problems.

Even optimised Flash applications I've seen use more processing power than they really should. Box.net has a file viewer and that works very well - its well optimised and does a cracking job, but why use flash when Javascript/AJAX/jQuery (choose your poison) inside an iFrame can do the same job and work on literally any device without a plugin? The new "Worker" method in Javascript allows true multi-threaded applications in Javascript - Flash still handles single threaded applications whilst creating its own bewildering amount of threads in the background just to get everything to work.

... at night.

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post #153 of 171
11/10/11 at 4:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Well, that's certainly one POV. I don't characterize this as "Steve was right." I think Steve was more prescient about the future of mobile web standards. It didn't hurt that he took a hard line on "no plug-ins for mobile Safari" to help force the issue. That includes Microsoft's seldom loved Silverlight plug-in.

Microsoft don't even support the Silverlight plug-in on their own phone or in Metro IE10.

I'd be very surprised if it was Steve's hard-line stance on plug-ins that prevented it from appearing on iOS.
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post #154 of 171
11/10/11 at 5:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by screamingfist View Post

i am not 'html5 people', i am 'all sh*t software needs to go away people'

i guess you still use and sing the praises of RealPlayer too?

You know what piece of sh*t software really needs to go away?

Quicktime.

Go to the Apple trailers site on a PC and you're greeted with this...



OK. So 80MB download, 10 minute installation and 8 new background services running and I'm set to go.

This is what my CPU looks like playing a 720p video through Quicktime.


This is what my CPU looks like playing the same trailer using Flash (HTML5 is about the same).



The really stupid thing is that the videos are all there in a HTML5 compatible format, Apple just decide to wrap them in Quicktime.


Actually scratch all that. It's not just Quicktime that needs to go. The whole damn iTunes application needs to go.

My iPhone and iPad can both sync to iCloud. There is absolutly no reason that I should have to install this piece of sh*t on my computer.

Could you imagine if Apple put their weight behind writing a kick-ass version of iTunes that ran fully in HTML5? That would be sweet.
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post #155 of 171
11/10/11 at 8:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

You know what piece of sh*t software really needs to go away?

Quicktime.

Go to the Apple trailers site on a PC and you're greeted with this...



OK. So 80MB download, 10 minute installation and 8 new background services running and I'm set to go.

This is what my CPU looks like playing a 720p video through Quicktime.


This is what my CPU looks like playing the same trailer using Flash (HTML5 is about the same).



The really stupid thing is that the videos are all there in a HTML5 compatible format, Apple just decide to wrap them in Quicktime.


Actually scratch all that. It's not just Quicktime that needs to go. The whole damn iTunes application needs to go.

My iPhone and iPad can both sync to iCloud. There is absolutly no reason that I should have to install this piece of sh*t on my computer.

Could you imagine if Apple put their weight behind writing a kick-ass version of iTunes that ran fully in HTML5? That would be sweet.


unfortunately the sync to icloud is a bit new. i do think itunes has run its course but itunes and the ipod were what put apple back on top.
i hope they focus on streamlining itunes and the store and remove the other stuff.
apple doesn't care about you installing itunes on your machine. your machine is a dodo bird. apple will make 'appliances' and itunes etc will all be built in.
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post #156 of 171
11/10/11 at 8:59am
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post #157 of 171
11/10/11 at 10:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

You know what piece of sh*t software really needs to go away?

Quicktime.

Go to the Apple trailers site on a PC and you're greeted with this...



OK. So 80MB download, 10 minute installation and 8 new background services running and I'm set to go.

This is what my CPU looks like playing a 720p video through Quicktime.


This is what my CPU looks like playing the same trailer using Flash (HTML5 is about the same).



The really stupid thing is that the videos are all there in a HTML5 compatible format, Apple just decide to wrap them in Quicktime.


Actually scratch all that. It's not just Quicktime that needs to go. The whole damn iTunes application needs to go.

My iPhone and iPad can both sync to iCloud. There is absolutly no reason that I should have to install this piece of sh*t on my computer.

Could you imagine if Apple put their weight behind writing a kick-ass version of iTunes that ran fully in HTML5? That would be sweet.

I think you have a problem with your computer. I have a Compaq Presario CQ56 sporting an AMD V140 processor that is far from fast. I can run 720p video in QT just fine with no huge CPU hit.

... at night.

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post #158 of 171
11/10/11 at 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

You know what piece of sh*t software really needs to go away?

Quicktime.

Go to the Apple trailers site on a PC and you're greeted with this...



OK. So 80MB download, 10 minute installation and 8 new background services running and I'm set to go.

This is what my CPU looks like playing a 720p video through Quicktime.


This is what my CPU looks like playing the same trailer using Flash (HTML5 is about the same).



The really stupid thing is that the videos are all there in a HTML5 compatible format, Apple just decide to wrap them in Quicktime.


Actually scratch all that. It's not just Quicktime that needs to go. The whole damn iTunes application needs to go.

My iPhone and iPad can both sync to iCloud. There is absolutly no reason that I should have to install this piece of sh*t on my computer.

Could you imagine if Apple put their weight behind writing a kick-ass version of iTunes that ran fully in HTML5? That would be sweet.

My Core2 Duo 2.4Ghz tops out at 40% when playing a 720p QuickTime video from Apple's Movie Trailers website. It hovers between 30%-40% CPU. Not sure what is different about your setup.
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post #159 of 171
11/10/11 at 2:57pm
Tallest Skils picture was cosmic
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post #160 of 171
11/10/11 at 7:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

My Core2 Duo 2.4Ghz tops out at 40% when playing a 720p QuickTime video from Apple's Movie Trailers website. It hovers between 30%-40% CPU. Not sure what is different about your setup.

The solution shouldn't be find hardware that can run sh*t software, but to avoid sh*t software in the first place.

I can run the same test on good hardware and it doesn't even make a mark...
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