OS X Lion growth stagnates at 16% Mac market share - Page 2

• Snow leopard broke many drivers and apps, so no upgrade
• Lion dropped PPC support, obsoleting my apps, so no up-upgrqade
• Not interested in sandboxed apps
• Not interested in walled garden app store, or giving apple 30% to dumb down apps
• Not interested in "single screen" apps or other IOS-ery (IOS needs to move towards OSX, not the other way around)
• Leopard is very amenable to Hackintoshery, which I think I'm going to need (Macpros? When?)
• Leopard has actual install media... it's like XP, it will live for many, many years
• Leopard has everything I need -- seriously, there's no reason to go further at this time.
• Leopard is now seeing fixes from the community, since Apple hasn't fixed their bugs after 4 years (invalid console error messages from cron, anyone?)
• Virtualization means that I can provide a proper environment for Leopard over the forseeable future in non-native machines.
• No need to upgrade.

Apple *could* get me back. They'd have to produce a freaking awesome Macpro to replace my current one, which is still powerful enough for me today (8 cores, 3 ghz, 8 GB ram)... I'd be severely tempted by a four CPU, 24 core, 48 thread machine with lots of memory and PCI lanes/cards/capacity so I can continue enjoying my multiple display antics; and to this, they'd have to add a version of OSX with PPC emulation restored and under which a good number of the apps they broke began to work again. I don't expect any of that, but that's ok... HP makes some awesome hardware suitable for Hackintoshing. Leopard is a terrific OS with everything I love about the Mac pretty well nailed down. Beginning with Snow Leopard, OSX began moving in the wrong direction, and Lion... Lion is just a complete mess. Leopard supports 64-bit data models, that's the key tech that ensures the OS can handle big jobs. 64-bit program space isn't particularly significant.

The screwups with IOS5 don't exactly inspire confidence, either. The wifi sync works under XP, a 10 year old os, but not Leopard? Good job Apple, way to leave 20+% of your users and financial supporters in the cold while sucking up to windows. Not that it's worth much, considering you have to have iTunes on and the iPad plugged in to power for "wireless" sync to work -- lol. And then there are all the apps that crash or won't even start under IOS5, and the power problems, and the bookshelf taking up useless space, and the loss of the Kindle store link in the Kindle app... I don't think the Apple I see today is the Apple I bought my computer from, and that's not a good thing.

It looks like I'm in the minority here, but I love lion. I recently bought an MBA and am working on it all day while I'm onsite at a client's office. It took a few days to get used to, but the new paradigms introduced-mission control, launch pad, gestures-are very useful.

That said, I cannot upgrade my old iMac because of the processor. Also, the client for whom I'm working runs a fairly large Mac-based office. They are running SL on all machines, but I attribute this more to a sensibly conservative approach toward OS upgrades.

I'm typing this on a 2009 MBP, and it's running faster than on Snow Leopard. I've got a 2006 Mac Pro on Lion too, also running faster than SL. Did you do a completely clean install, without restoring user settings too?


Have a look here.

I refuse to upgrade to Lion until Apple forces me to upgrade (either when I purchase a new machine, or when MobileMe is discontinued). There are many reasons why:

1. The new interface is horrible. I'm not just talking about the new scrollbars (or lack thereof), I'm talking about the new look of the apps -- in particular, Address Book. Address Book isn't just a gigantic step backwards in user interface, it's a gigantic step backwards in USABILITY!! We need 3 columns of information in Address Book! iCal is horrible too, but at least we have BusyCal as the superior alternative to iCal. We are holding out hope that BusyMac will release an Address Book alternative, too.

2. No support for PowerPC apps. Sorry, Apple, but I still depend on some discontinued PowerPC apps on a daily basis, such as Quicken and Adobe GoLive CS. I'm slowly making the transition to iBank instead of Quicken, and I still need a long time before I can shift my website from GoLive to Wordpress. So I absolutely can't upgrade to Lion at this point, because 2 of my key applications depend on PowerPC support.

3. As an advanced user, I want an easy way to troubleshoot my Mac and to be able to reinstall the system. The whole "no DVD" thing makes me very hesitant to embrace Lion, as I'm not so sure that Apple has nailed this whole "troubleshooting without a DVD" yet. I'm going to give Apple time to shake out their bugs.

4. I am not thrilled with the many reported bugs in regards to iCloud and many other 3rd-party apps. I'm gonna wait until these bugs are all resolved.

5. I've had FIRST-HAND EXPERIENCE with people running Lion on their Macs, and it is slooooooow slooooow slooooow as molasses. No thank you, Apple.

But it seems like I'll be forced to upgrade by June 2012 to Lion. It makes me very unhappy with Apple that they discontinued MobileMe but made its replacement Lion-only! I need to sync my Address Book and Safari Bookmarks across multiple devices, so what Apple is telling me is that I am going to be FORCED to upgrade to Lion by June 2012. Not cool, Apple. Not cool at all. Apple should really bring iCloud support to Snow Leopard, instead of slapping their loyal customers in the face by forcing them to upgrade. (I'm also disappointed with Apple removing iPhoto Gallery publishing, which we used all the time in the past.)

Just not thrilled with Apple right about now.

I think it's all about the "features". After a few months running Lion, I ended up having to down-grade back to Snow Leopard on my primary desktop. All of these new features just slow you down. Mission Control, the new iCal interface, the new Address Book interface, and so much more. They just add so many new steps. The big difference between an iPad and a Mac is that on an iPad, you can only look at one thing at a time. On a Mac, you can have many windows at once. So making the Mac's interface similar to an iPad's interface, means adding many extra steps to your workflow, and each step is like a speed bump slowing you down.

And lets not count-out rosetta. Anyone with MS Office 2004 and older, Adobe CS2 and older, QuickBooks 2007 & older (QB2007 is a UB, but simply doesn't work with Lion), will have to spend hundreds more $$ upgrading everything else.

For me, the benefits of going back to 10.6 were primarily, a much smoother, more streamlined workflow (compared to Lion). Also 10.6 runs much faster on my Mac Pro than Lion did, even without TRIM support. 10.7 couldn't connect to my 10.5 Server's VPN, so on Lion I had to use a 10.5 VM to connect. Thankfully I don't have to do that any more. Also there are bugs with 10.7's Server Admin that don't work quite right with 10.5 Server. And 10.5 Server's admin apps won't run on 10.7 even though they are UB. So that also ran in the VM. And I installed GoLive CS1 in the VM because I still use that program every once in a while. Now all of that is gone and I'm back to my old, fast self.

I also have a 13" MacBook Pro which I left on Lion. And the telling thing is that with it's small screen, these features like mission control, actually aren't so bad. But on a desktop with a big screen (or two), 10.7 is not so great.

OH and it is fantastic having my scroll bar arrows back!!!!!

I don't get some some of your issues. For instance, the lack of scroll bars by default complaint. It is totally customizable. You can control that setting in system preferences to make the scroll bar show all the time. I also think it makes sense to have the scroll bar be hidden by default. One of the other big features in Lion was full screen mode, and the scroll bar hidden looks better to my eye when in full screen mode, which I am in quite a bit. I suppose ultimately the matter is subjective to the user, but I can't see Apple's decision here being half baked. Ultimately, it shouldn't' matter as you can change the setting to however you want.

I also don't' get the auto save grievance. You can still manually save by hitting the same key command. You can also create a saved version in the menu. So there is no loss of functionality. The user gains.

I'd guess most people do not need a boot disk, as they have no idea how to use it. If you are advanced enough to know how to use one, you probably will figure out you can create a bootable Lion disk yourself.

Again I think this is subjective, but I also think the gestures are pretty straight forward. If you are not used to using gestures in general that can be a little hard to get accustomed to doing. That is somewhat customizable as well.

I don't use Logic, so I can't' help you with that one. I do have a few issues though. Not so much with Lion, but with over all consistency. For instance, on most Lion apps the full screen button is on the far top right hand corner of the title bar. For some apps, like Pages, the button is toward the left hand side of the title bar. Moreover, the way you exit full screen mode is different in Pages as in other apps. The icons also vary. I really dislike inconsistency in the OS. In addition, I find the new gestures in Safari for going backward and forward for webpages already visited incredible fun and useful. However, Safari has become somewhat buggy making my enjoyment somewhat tempered. For instance, I occasionally find Safari freezing, which is very frustrating.

Lion can be tweaked further by using something like Lion Tweaks (a free app).

I downloaded it 3 days after release..

And I went back to SL.

Lion is a fucking joke! A abhorent iOSX interface with lots of problems... It is the worst OSX to date.. Will be hoping for a MAC OS next time

I don't know if this was directed at me or not, but: My issue isn't that scroll bars are hidden by default. Because like you said, they are very easy to bring back. My issue is that scroll bars have no arrows. If you have super long content, like a 10,000 item inbox. And it's being views in a very small view, like 8 lines at a time. And you want to go to YESTERDAY, it is VERY difficult in Lion. On Snow Leopard, it's a piece of cake. It can be done on Lion, but scrolling is just one more speed bump slowing you down on Lion. And this is another feature that isn't much of a problem on my laptop, since you use a trackpad to scroll. But for desktop users that still use mice, it's a huge hassle.

Completely agree. I have never in all the time that I've used a computer needed to see a list of All My files. Take this away, and bring back Library visible by default!! I mean ffs

And the nail was hit square upon its head.

Upgrading is a pain, plain and simple. While I was excited about Lion my wife said "No, just leave it alone. It works fine." And it does.
I upgraded the house iMac and she goes from that to her laptop and I'm really not sure she notices the difference.

My experience is the opposite. This might just be a difference in how our work flow operates and what type of system we are using. On a Macbook, I use gestures a lot. You can flip between desktops using Mission Control, open Launchpad, and accomplish a bunch more just by using gestures on the trackpad. This to me makes things a lot quicker. For instance, if while using Safari I want to go find a site I have been at ten minutes ago, I can quickly flip through past sites using the track pad. It is much much quicker then strolling up to the menu bar. It also looks way cooler. I suppose it might take a little time becoming used to using gestures as opposed to the cursor. Also if you don't' have a trackpad, much of Lions' benefits wouldn't be realized.


I really don't get that grievance either because the arrows slowed things down. You used to have to move the cursor over to the appropriate arrow and carefully click it to scroll to where you wanted to go. Now you use two fingers on the track pad, which doesn't require one to carefully navigate the cursor. If I really want to use the scroll bar, I just tap anywhere above or below the scroll bar as opposed to having to aim for the arrows. I also don't have to careful guide my cursor to the small tab and hold the mouse button down to size my windows.

Again to each their own, but I think for the most part Lion is a big step forward.

I think that's the issue.

Snow Leopard was a great OS. There really isn't much driving force for Lion. No real 'must have' features and no widespread problems with SL. Plus, of course, people using older versions of software might have problems with the loss of Rosetta (thanks a lot, Intuit). I'm not surprised that not very many people upgraded. Heck, I only upgraded one of my 2 Macs.

TBell you are missing the point. I don't have a track pad. I use a desktop. And I really don't have room for a full size keyboard, an apple trackpad, and a mouse on my desktop. So scrolling "a little bit" went from clicking on a scroll bar arrow, to grabbing the scroll "bar", trying to move it as slightly as possible. Then going back cause you want to far. Then repeating several times. Then giving up and doing a search. But only getting partial results so doing a few more searches. It was a nightmare.

I agree with the bring the user Library back by default. That one baffled me. You can accomplish this easily by using Lion Tweaks. I like the All My File feature though. It organizes files by file type and in the order of recent use. It provides people another way to find docs. Or if you don't know the name of a docs, you can easily look for it by file type.

Apple does listen though. I remember when Leopard first shipped. Apple shipped it by only allowing people to view files as stacks within the Dock. You couldn't view things as a list, which was the old way. People complained and Apple added the option back.

What I read about Lion before its release was enough to make me purchase one of the last MacBook Pros that shipped with Snow Leopard pre-installed. I did download Lion, as it was free, but I have not installed it. I have played with it some at my local Apple Store, but dont plan to ever install it. Lion is really geared to new users who are inexperienced with computers. And that, I think, is where Apple is going with both its hardware and software. You can see it in Final Cut Pro, you can see it in the ever-growing emphasis on iOS, and the convergence of iOS and Mac OS. Dont get me wrong. I love iOSon iOS devices. But the conceit of iOS breaks down after you have some 50 documents or so. Apple appears to be moving in the direction of creating dumbed down information appliances that will be extremely useful to beginning computer users, but not very useful once you graduate from that category. I hope Im wrong, but I fear Im not.

TBell I gotta tell you, the way you reply to someone else, and then show their quote UNDER what you say, is really confusing. You might want to stick to the traditional way of quoting, which is quote first, then reply.

For me it is stability. Any Apple OS that ends in version .0 needs time to ripen. Of course, I didn't upgrade to Snow Leopard until it was 10.6.4, which was pretty late in the game. But, I plan to install Lion, no doubt.

Perhaps because it is that I am getting older. I did buy Lion then after a trial install which I discarded here I am back at Snow Leopard. I missed Rosetta , there are things Apple Works does and so easily. The new bells and whistles of Lion Just did not turn me on. Although I must admit that I may be getting somewhat tired I started 25 years ago with my Mac Plus running 6.04 and have gone through every OS since. The way Apple decided to distribute 10.7 and its updates did not make me feel comfortable. First thing I did was to figure out how to make Lion into a bootable install DVD,so I shall not have to ever re-download it again. I would like to suggest to Apple they come half way. BY all means make it a download OS . However make it an archive which can then be used to create a bootable DVD. Finally follow the same pattern for Updates.

That is my 2 cents worth.

I get that. Our difference of opinion likely is because of our equipment set up and work flow. I think Lion really is designed for the trackpad. If you are using a mouse, I can see how in many ways Snow Leopard might be better. For better or worst, I think Apple envisions a future where everybody is using a trackpad as opposed to a mouse. Even if I had a desktop Mac, I wouldn't use a mouse. They feel antiquated to me.

How is that?

Gestures are great, but you just can't get the cursor speed or precision of a mouse, with a trackpad.

Significantly more readable.

Yeah just what I want to do. Upgrade to lion to have a few features that I wouldn't of had before just to run two operating systems so i can run all my adobe creative suite through some virtual machine program.

Ha yeah that's a real fast & efficient (sarcasm)

Bazinga

Weighing out the pros and cons the numbers speak for themselves. I want an operating system that runs my programs. The new features are nice but if I can't work and get the job done like I need to why upgrade?

I'm surprised more people aren't talking about how horrible the Address Book interface is in Lion. It's completely and totally unusable, especially if you spend all day working with groups, like we do. I can't believe ANYBODY at Apple thought that the new Address Book was a good idea. It makes people's lives much LESS productive throughout the day.

Lion has a lot of good stuff.
- Mission Control is better than Expose.
- When you restart everything comes back how you left it. This is great for Boot Camp users.

But it also has some misfires:
- Versioning. I am the user, and I do not matter because versioning looks good on the whiteboard.
- App launch performance: now highly variable. Sometimes even simple apps like Textpad take ages to launch, result in spins etc. I wonder if the versions database needs better indexes. It is not the HD going to sleep, and not a "bad upgrade" because I am religious about these things.
- System Documentation: the man pages are not properly done. It does not match the Apple ethos of putting effort even in to the small things.
- Finder: feels like it was written by the newest of the new developer. Can we please get an experienced hand to review this app for 10.7.3?

I do agree with you. But for me, Mission Control was a much bigger nightmare.


But I have customers that use a calendar server, and they have 30 total calendars. So now in iCal, they have to click a menu just to get a list of their calendars. And that list only shows maybe 10 at a time, so they also have to scroll through that list to see them all. Compare this to Snow Leopard's iCal which simply had an always-there column showing all of your calendars. Again it's probably nice if you're on a tiny screen, but on a non-ipad screen, it's another hassle, another speed bump.

Well, I'm completely convinced. Everyone, please delete Lion and go back to Mac OS 7.

Not 7.5, 7. Straight 7. That's what we deserve.

This is as much a reason as any why I'm not upgrading to Lion. If enough people complain, Apple will fix the issues, and then I can upgrade to the fixed version without having to endure the hassle of the current mess.

Agreed!!

This is what we have all been trying to say to TBell. Guess he is just arguing to keep the thread moving.

http://www.obxwebdesigner.com

Heh, I think partly the problem is Apple tends to make huge "lets dumb this down" changes which they think is for the better, mostly without giving users the option to go back to the old way. There's only so far you can go to simplify things before you lose functionality Ã* la iCal and Address Book.

I think we need several modes the OS can run in if Apple's going to continue down this path: iOS (baby/beginner), halfway-between-OS-X-and-iOS (child/Intermediate/Lion), and OS X (someone who's actually used a computer before/advanced/Snow Leopard)

I agree in spirit. If so many of these "features" just had the option to change back. Like going back to expose & spaces for advanced users, and getting rid of mission control. Or a little check box to bring back scroll bar arrows. Oh well. I'm very happy back on S-L and I'll probably stay with it on my desktop until I replace it with an iMac.... which will happen the day apple bring back the matte screen iMac (so possibly never, or possibly tomorrow).

What can I say? I have the original Intel Core Duo-powered MacBook, and Lion needs at least a Core 2 Duo to install. But even if I could install Lion, I'm not sure that I would, since it can't run PPC code under Rosetta.

So don't buy them. Your fears will be completely warranted when OS X disallows installations from anywhere but the Mac App Store.


Please don't lie outright.

That link accompanies the obvious solution of buying it for $29 and using a $0.05 DVD to burn your own copy.


Well, 640k ought to be enough for anyone.


I still have my LC 575. There was no need for me to buy a Mac Pro. I'm sure I could still get most stuff done on that. Just find a copy of Photoshop 2 or something.

Actually, that would be interesting. Photoshop 2 (there's no contemplative emoticon; imagine one here)

I would have bought Lion if it was available as a DVD at the same or nearly the same price as the download. I'm not paying to download an OS that I have to burn off a DVD of if I need to an install disk in case of emergencies.. and believe me, I've had those emergencies...

I've sent Apple my feedback on that..

I think this is one of St. Steve's decisions that is bad at this time, but possibly smart years later.

Why?

I reread your post several times and this sentence doesn't resolve itself. Why is this an issue for you? You have a DVD drive, obviously, so you would have access to burning the disc. It's 50% cheaper to download it and make your own disc, and who would want a disc and only have that as their backup? If you had a physical DVD, you'd make a (multiple) copy(ies) of that when you had it, anyway. So I don't understand your complaint, is all.


"We skate to where the puck is going, not where it is."

That analogy works for hockey because the game is fast and the shifts are short. Gretzky wasn't standing in the corner of an empty arena waiting for a game two seasons away.

Yes, adress book sucks. What a weird way to navigate. Talk about. Punter intuitive.

Apple currently sells four devices with optical drives, and all news points to that number becoming three or fewer by the end of next year.

I'd say, if anything, Apple is out on the ice shooting practice shots while the rest of the players line up for the National Anthem.

Brash? Unorthodox? Looked down upon?

Yes.

But what Apple is doing now will be lauded once everyone else gets out there. And by then, they'll just be playing catch-up.

Yes, I do believe the computer analogy works for hockey.

The only reason I am on Lion is my new MB Air which forces me onto it.

The very thing Apple always preached against—feature creep—is what makes Lion the worst OSX upgrade in years. There are features that are usable, e.g. I can finally use Spaces. It doesn't outweigh the negatives though.

Worst offenders:

• Versions—versioning you have no control over. "Save as…" is gone and new file system paradigm is forced on the user.
• Autosave—if you opened and closed a file, you just saved whatever changes you made and didn't want.
  Those two features combined clog the hard drive with countless unwanted versions of a file. This article says its text was saved in 110 versions, complete files were saved (not differences) and it swell up to 10MB. We'll hear more about it when more apps are upgraded to Lion versioning/autosave mode.
• Scrolling—I agree with "natural" touchpad scrolling, it makes sense. But it doesn't on mouse scroll wheel, I have to use Scroll Reverser app to be able to use my mouse normally.
• Launchpad—why?…
• Skeuomorphic interfaces in Address Book and iCal are ridiculous. Address Book needed an overhaul—it looked dated even compared to the first iPhone's. They only changed its superficial look in Lion, leaving the antiquated UI in.
• Scrollbars look as if they were unfinished.

There are also hardware issues, e.g. I have to restart the computer every time I wake it from sleep in dual-monitor set up because waking up lights up the closed laptop screen in clamshell mode.

Or untick the "Natural Scrolling" box in mouse prefs. I assume that option's available for non-magic mice too.