or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Adobe manager puts partial blame on Apple for mobile Flash failure
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Adobe manager puts partial blame on Apple for mobile Flash failure

post #1 of 128
Thread Starter 
An Adobe product manager has pointed to the fact that Apple had refused to support Flash on iOS as a major reason for the company's decision to halt development of the Flash Player for mobile devices.

Mike Chambers, Principal Product Manager for developer relations for the Flash Platform, published a blog post clarifying the reasons behind the software maker's plans, which were announced on Wednesday. Adobe said it will continue to support existing implementations of Flash Player for mobile browsers, but will cease development in order to redirect resources to better focus on HTML5.

Chambers has spent the past 12 or 13 years working with the technology as part of the Flash community. According to him, the past couple days "have been some of the most difficult" of his career.

"Considering how politically charged the issue has been, the decision to stop development of the Flash Player for Mobile Browsers was not an easy decision. However, at the end of the day, there were a number of items that made it clear that putting resources towards its continued development would not be the best use of resources," he wrote.

The first reason Chambers cited was the fact that Flash Player would never "achieve the same ubiquity" on mobile devices as it has on the desktop.

"This one should be pretty apparent, but given the fragmentation of the mobile market, and the fact that one of the leading mobile platforms (Apples iOS) was not going to allow the Flash Player in the browser, the Flash Player was not on track to reach anywhere near the ubiquity of the Flash Player on desktops," Chambers said.

Chambers admitted that it is "very clear" that HTML5 is now the solution for providing "a richer browser based experience" across browsers on mobile devices. "No matter what we did, the Flash Player was not going to be available on Apples iOS anytime in the foreseeable future," he said.

The ubiquity of HTML5 on mobile browsers was cited as a second reason for Adobe's decision. He pointed to dramatic improvement of Canvas performance between iOS 4 and 5 as an example. Adobe had sought to reach the same level of ubiquity as HTML5, but Chambers said it was "something that did not, and was not going to happen."

"This new generation of smart phones and tablets (ushered in by the original Apple iPhone) are only a couple of years old. Because of this, the rendering engines deployed on these devices (most WebKit based) were all also relatively new and modern," he said.

Apple's App Store was also partly to blame for mobile Flash's demise, according to the post, as mobile users are much more likely to look to applications than the web for rich content. Chambers cited differences in screen sizes, resolution and interaction models; slower and higher latency network connections; tight integration between apps and operating systems and tight integration between mobile app stores and operating systems as the reasons.

"The mobile platforms make it very easy to discover new content and applications by providing tight integration between the app stores (Apple App Store, Android Marketplace, etc..) and the mobile operating system, he said. "In general, users do not look to the web on mobile devices for finding and consuming rich content (such as games and applications)."

Chambers also admitted that Flash Player for mobile browsers had required "much more resources" than originally anticipated. Whereas Adobe can usually work within "well defined plugin APIs" on the desktop, the company found it had to work with numerous mobile operating system vendors, hardware device manufacturers and component manufacturers in order to develop mobile Flash.

"For each new device, browser and operating system released, the resources required to develop, test and maintain the Flash Player also increases. This is something that we realized is simply not scalable or sustainable," he wrote.

Finally, Chambers pointed to the need to shift some resources from Flash to HTML5. Given the widespread adoption of HTML5, Adobe had decided to "more evenly balance" its resources between the two technologies.

But, in defense of the product, the manager did remind his audience that "Flash is not dead." He reiterated Adobe's "long term commitment" to Flash Player on desktops. For the "foreseeable future," Adobe will focus on Flash's strengths of delivering "advanced video" and a "graphically rich gaming platform" on the desktop.



The vindication of Steve Jobs

In fact, Chambers' comments align in part with an open letter on Adobe Flash written by late Apple co-founder Steve Jobs in April 2010. Jobs penned the letter in response to criticism that Apple's decision not to support Flash on the iPhone and iPad was purely a business move.

Like Chambers, Jobs pointed to WebKit as an example of the ubiquity of HTML5 on mobile devices. Apple built WebKit off of an open-source project, and it has since been adopted by Google, Palm, Nokia and RIM. He pointed out that, since websites will have to rewrite touch versions of their websites for the mobile age, they might as well just go with the open format.

Jobs also used the argument that mobile users often use apps, rather than the web, to access rich content such as games and video.

"Flash was created during the PC era for PCs and mice. Flash is a successful business for Adobe, and we can understand why they want to push it beyond PCs. But the mobile era is about low power devices, touch interfaces and open web standards all areas where Flash falls short," Jobs said. "New open standards created in the mobile era, such as HTML5, will win on mobile devices (and PCs too). Perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools for the future, and less on criticizing Apple for leaving the past behind."

Based on Adobe's recent announcement and Chambers' subsequent explanations, it would appear that the company has followed Jobs' advice to give up on mobile Flash and move toward HTML5.
post #2 of 128
Yeah its Apple's fault that Adobe couldnt make flash work on a mobile device.

So much for that blasted selling point on Android

Steve was right the entire time
"In March we told you 2011 would be the year of iPad 2, and it is, but we're starting 2012 early." - September 2011

~Ireland

Such a true sig
Reply
"In March we told you 2011 would be the year of iPad 2, and it is, but we're starting 2012 early." - September 2011

~Ireland

Such a true sig
Reply
post #3 of 128
If adobe made great mobile versions of flash that worked flawlessly and consumed little to no power , apple would have used them. The truth is, flash on desktop still eats more battery power than watching a quicktime h/264 podcast from itunes, wich does not spin the fans even at 1080p.

The web is well served by apple's strong stance against flash, and mobile web sites made for html 5 are now much higher quality experience than even their desktop counterparts in my opinion.

Now only if restaurants finally got rid of their flash sites we could all kiss the flash era good bye.
--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
Reply
--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
Reply
post #4 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

Now only if restaurants finally got rid of their flash sites we could all kiss the flash era good bye.

You're right. Restaurants as an industry have embraced flash. I don't know why.
post #5 of 128
"Just to be very clear on this," he added. "No matter what we did, the Flash Player was not going to be available on Apple’s iOS anytime in the foreseeable future."

You mean, "Since we weren't going to fix the huge power draining, security and crash issues of Flash, it wouldn't be on iOS". Steve had said in the open letter that Flash was not performing to their expectations and there was not a full version of mobile Flash for so long. They can try and deflect this to Apple but people know better
post #6 of 128
Chambers need only say Steve was right. The complaining was unnecessary.

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

Reply

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

Reply
post #7 of 128
Too bad for Adobe that SJ isn't around anymore to give them business advise, guidance and direction for their applications.
You talkin' to me?
Reply
You talkin' to me?
Reply
post #8 of 128
It is telling that durring the heat of the battle, no one defended Flash on the basis that it was a good technology that was a benefit to the platform. They defended it because it wasn't Apple, or that it represented choice, or that it was a necessary evil. No one actually thought it was a good thing. Even now in the post mortum, some of the Flash supporters are cursing Apple and spinning it to say that evil Apple has denied people choice. Even now, no one is saying that Flash is anything other than the steaming pile that it is and always has been. Even as Adobe is admitting that Apple was right all along, the anti-Apple crowd will never admit it.

As an aside, I find it surreal that RIM is doubling down on their support for Flash even as the makers of the product have publically taken it out back and shot it. RIM is in the unenviable possition of having to explain why Adobe is wrong about their own product.
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
Reply
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
Reply
post #9 of 128
I enjoy reading Apple insider. I really do. Even now I am typing this on my iPad2. But after reading your daily for over a year, I cannot help but detect a consistent bias in favor of Apple. This article makes it clear to me.

In most cases, your writers seem to summarize an event, trend, or story in a way that either says: "Apple was right all along" or "See, this is proof that Apple really will conquer the world." As if we really needed another data point for either view.

Are you just living in fear of falling out of Apple's good graces? Are you actually Apple employees? Or are you blinded by the light...so smitten with the Apple wave that you cannot see any signal that might minimize its stature?

It is great to get updates on what is happening in the Apple domain (although admittedly I often read about a story first on Slashdot, Ars Techica or TechCrunch before picking it up here hours or days later).

But please stop writing the articles as if you are an extension of Apple's PR department. A little objectivity would restore quite a bit of your objectivity.

Respectfully,

Neil Francis
post #10 of 128
I agree with you wholeheartedly, Neil.
post #11 of 128
Apple had to build Webkit as an open source project since they forked KHTML and KJS to create Webkit. The sentence "Apple built WebKit as an open-source project," makes it sound like Apple created Webkit then decide to open source it, which is not the case. They HAD to open source it under KHTML's Gnu license.

Just clarifying.
post #12 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelfrancis View Post

I enjoy reading Apple insider. I really do. Even now I am typing this on my iPad2. But after reading your daily for over a year, I cannot help but detect a consistent bias in favor of Apple. This article makes it clear to me.

In most cases, your writers seem to summarize an event, trend, or story in a way that either says: "Apple was right all along" or "See, this is proof that Apple really will conquer the world." As if we really needed another data point for either view.

Are you just living in fear of falling out of Apple's good graces? Are you actually Apple employees? Or are you blinded by the light...so smitten with the Apple wave that you cannot see any signal that might minimize its stature?

It is great to get updates on what is happening in the Apple domain (although admittedly I often read about a story first on Slashdot, Ars Techica or TechCrunch before picking it up here hours or days later).

But please stop writing the articles as if you are an extension of Apple's PR department. A little objectivity would restore quite a bit of your objectivity.

Respectfully,

Neil Francis

Neil, you do know that the name of this site is "Apple Insider"? Just based on the name, i would expect a bias towards Apple products. I don't know, call it common sense.

And you are free to not click on any article from this site. You have plenty of other choices, I'm sure.
post #13 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelfrancis View Post

But please stop writing the articles as if you are an extension of Apple's PR department. A little objectivity would restore quite a bit of your objectivity.

Head to daring fireball if you want Apple's out-of-hours PR department. AI remains incredibly objective in comparison to other Apple focused sites.
Check out my Apple Tech Podcast: Cidercast
Reply
Check out my Apple Tech Podcast: Cidercast
Reply
post #14 of 128
Who cares about this guy's whining.

If Apple was ultimately responsible for hastening the death of Flash - as I think it was - hooray for Apple!
post #15 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelfrancis View Post

I enjoy reading Apple insider… …But after reading your daily for over a year, I cannot help but detect a consistent bias in favor of Apple.



Joking aside, what do you expect? It does indeed ring unprofessional at times, but there's not a news outlet that isn't biased. Not a single one. Self-policing is the only way to expose lies. These aren't lies.

Quote:
But please stop writing the articles as if you are an extension of Apple's PR department. A little objectivity would restore quite a bit of your objectivity.

I'd watch any future stories on Apple/Samsung in Australia. If there's anywhere subjectivity would break through, it'd be there.
post #16 of 128
The product manager failed to mention that nearly all mobile devices run with ARM SoCs. The available memory is more constrained. Power management is at a premium. Those were serious architectural problems for Flash ports that could not be wished away iOS or Android.

In the past, Adobe put out products such as Acrobat (and others) that had a full functionality set on the Windows platform, but a subset of that functionality on the OS X platform. Adobe made little effort to make these product platform versions functionally equivalent. Sure, there were return on investment reasons as to why, but this was not publicly acknowledged by Adobe.

Nullis in verba -- "on the word of no one"

 

 

 

Reply

Nullis in verba -- "on the word of no one"

 

 

 

Reply
post #17 of 128
Hmmm. Website called apple insider displays an apple bias. Almost like they believe they are insiders at apple. I am shocked. Shocked I say.

Btw I find it amusing that these complaints come in an article that does nothing but regurgitate the words of an Adobe manager. Just goes to show that some commentators think presenting ideas and news as favoring 1 side, even if reality favors that 1 side, is being biased. For these folks reality isn't important. Getting both sides is important. This weird presentation of news is even more apparent in US political reporting, which goes to explain why so many Americans are so woefully misinformed about the world around them.
post #18 of 128
Look, Adobe didn't support Apple on many fronts through the years, why would Apple ship a phone that's going to have its battery life cut in half just so users can enjoy craptastic floating banners obscuring their web pages. I think Apple made a brilliant decision and the author of this article is rightly pointing it out.

Adobe comes across like a poorly run, whiny blank. It wasn't rocket science.Flash just sucks batteries.

Pull up an H.264 video, watch it for an hour, then pull up same video on Hulu for an hour. Use any laptop on battery power. Report back to someone when you figure it out.

and really, the site's biased? I think its just focused on Apple. The site regularly posts negative comments about their products, that botched movie editing software story had legs for a while, battery life problems, problems with the cloud, etc etc.

Go back to school, learn some critical thinking skills, then come back when you can hold a conversation.

but I kid.
post #19 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by article

Whereas Adobe can usually work within "well defined plugin APIs" on the desktop

I think that's a euphemism for "sucking the machine dry".
post #20 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelfrancis View Post

But after reading your daily for over a year, I cannot help but detect a consistent bias in favor of Apple.

No seriously? What gives it away?
post #21 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

Chambers need only say Steve was right. The complaining was unnecessary.

Well, the final irony is that Chambers said pretty much what Steve said. Even if you totally remove Apple and iOS from the picture, Chambers acknowledges all the other problems with Flash that Steve Jobs has been saying for years and years.

This is classic innovator's dilemma. Adobe sat on Flash for too long as it got ever more bloated. They *never*, get this, *never* cleaned up the 2D compositing engine to any reasonable degree. Tell me how the heck a phone can essentially do better 2D graphics and realtime compositing than a Core 2 Duo with Nvidia and ATI GPUs?

Yes, it would not have been easy because the Flash engine is potentially exposed by the content authors to extremely high levels of 2D compositing of vectors and bitmaps, all with antialiasing to boot. But I'm sorry Chambers, your team just dropped the ball several years ago and just never got round to picking it up again. Thank goodness I abandoned Flash as part of my career direction a few years ago.
post #22 of 128
I thought Android was getting a good amount of traction, 50% more units running Android than Apple.

I think it's bad to have a business model that depends on near-absolute ubiquity to work. When you do achieve it, it's too easy to rest on your laurels. And then when it doesn't work, it's a painful slide to the bottom.

Heck, I still see stuttering and frame drops on Flash video, on Windows and Mac. That shouldn't be happening.
post #23 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

If Apple was ultimately responsible for hastening the death of Flash - as I think it was - hooray for Apple!

The more significant point is that Android had a big part to play in this too, something that Apple-bashers would never understand. Chambers says it point blank in his blog post about Android being fragmented both on a OS and hardware level... If Android is crushing iPhone as people like to say, then Flash on Android would also be crushing iPhone web and native apps, right? Ah, therein lies the rub.

Like I mentioned many times, I have expected in the past 2 years to have people raving about Flash on their Android devices. Hasn't really come up. The people I know that like Android like it because it's not Apple, the screen, Android *native apps*, rooting, etc. Not really Flash.

Adobe AIR is DOA too at this stage. Earlier this year I was wondering if I could leverage my Flash knowledge to make iOS apps. Looked at a book on how to do it with Adobe's tools, and it's not pretty.

This decade, it is native iOS and native Android coding that will give you the largest advantage in delivering app experiences. Websites optimised for "touch" is good too, but hacky unless you stay quite close to HTML5.

What Chambers didn't say is that for many people iOS and Android native coding is also a very, very good approach besides HTML5. But after 15 years in the industry and at this stage in the game, to admit this very raw truth openly without dissing Adobe is impossible.

But the field still remains wide open for someone to enable making quality apps easier than using Xcode. Remember, all HTML used to be text-editing only, and was considered the only "pure" way to do websites. This "purity" will change for apps too, and in fact has already started with Corona and other such things. Pity Adobe's tools are not considered to be on the forefront of the non-Xcode revolution.
post #24 of 128
This is why you can't believe most of what you read in the media.
Android is supposedly the leading mobile OS on tens of millions of devices. Way ahead of ISO. So, with Google leading the way how the hell could this guy blame Apple for the failure of mobile flash?
It is an insult to reason!
post #25 of 128
I'm surprised Android's "500,000" activations per day couldn't sustain Flash.
post #26 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by theguycalledtom View Post

Head to daring fireball if you want Apple's out-of-hours PR department. AI remains incredibly objective in comparison to other Apple focused sites.

I enjoy Appleinsider. However, the authors hardly compare with John Gruber. Gruber is pretty smart, and provides opinion and analysis. I am not saying the authors of this site don't have some intelligence, we'd just never know based on the chosen presentation of the material.
post #27 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelfrancis View Post

I enjoy reading Apple insider. I really do. Even now I am typing this on my iPad2. But after reading your daily for over a year, I cannot help but detect a consistent bias in favor of Apple. This article makes it clear to me.

In most cases, your writers seem to summarize an event, trend, or story in a way that either says: "Apple was right all along" or "See, this is proof that Apple really will conquer the world." As if we really needed another data point for either view.

Are you just living in fear of falling out of Apple's good graces? Are you actually Apple employees? Or are you blinded by the light...so smitten with the Apple wave that you cannot see any signal that might minimize its stature?

It is great to get updates on what is happening in the Apple domain (although admittedly I often read about a story first on Slashdot, Ars Techica or TechCrunch before picking it up here hours or days later).

But please stop writing the articles as if you are an extension of Apple's PR department. A little objectivity would restore quite a bit of your objectivity.

Respectfully,

Neil Francis


Well some of your points are valid, you hardly dispel why Jobs got it wrong in his well thought out explanation of why Apple doesn't support Flash. Turns out Adobe essentially admitted Jobs was right by claiming having to support multiple platforms turned out to be too much for Adobe.
post #28 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

This is why you can't believe most of what you read in the media.
Android is supposedly the leading mobile OS on tens of millions of devices. Way ahead of ISO. So, with Google leading the way how the hell could this guy blame Apple for the failure of mobile flash?
It is an insult to reason!

Yeah it seems that android fragmentation also played a large role in flash's failure on mobile.
post #29 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

This is why you can't believe most of what you read in the media.
Android is supposedly the leading mobile OS on tens of millions of devices. Way ahead of ISO. So, with Google leading the way how the hell could this guy blame Apple for the failure of mobile flash?
It is an insult to reason!

how can they blame anyone but themselves honestly...
post #30 of 128
"Blame"?! I think they mean "praise".
post #31 of 128
Hey Marvin

Do you still want to tell me that killing mobile flash was just a matter of timing and not a matter of competition.

Timing? Really?
na na na na na...
Reply
na na na na na...
Reply
post #32 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Chambers admitted that it is "very clear" that HTML5 is now the solution for providing "a richer browser based experience" across browsers on mobile devices. "No matter what we did, the Flash Player was not going to be available on Apples iOS anytime in the foreseeable future," he said.

I think he meant, "No matter what we said..." not did. I mean, it's not like they really did all that much to make Flash great on the mobile platforms. How many years was it before 10.1? And that one was only barely adequate.
post #33 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

Now only if restaurants finally got rid of their flash sites we could all kiss the flash era good bye.

Just do what I do.

Look for a support email address usually found under "contact us".

Write telling them as their website is not accessible you won't be using their business but will go to one of their competitors (include some links to examples if you want).

If enough people do this then they just might get the message and come to their senses.
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #34 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelfrancis View Post

I enjoy reading Apple insider. I really do. Even now I am typing this on my iPad2. But after reading your daily for over a year, I cannot help but detect a consistent bias in favor of Apple. This article makes it clear to me.

In most cases, your writers seem to summarize an event, trend, or story in a way that either says: "Apple was right all along" or "See, this is proof that Apple really will conquer the world." As if we really needed another data point for either view.

Are you just living in fear of falling out of Apple's good graces? Are you actually Apple employees? Or are you blinded by the light...so smitten with the Apple wave that you cannot see any signal that might minimize its stature?

It is great to get updates on what is happening in the Apple domain (although admittedly I often read about a story first on Slashdot, Ars Techica or TechCrunch before picking it up here hours or days later).

But please stop writing the articles as if you are an extension of Apple's PR department. A little objectivity would restore quite a bit of your objectivity.

Respectfully,

Neil Francis

Hi Neil, welcome to the forum.

Apple was right all along regarding Flash.

Have a nice day.
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
Better than my Bose, better than my Skullcandy's, listening to Mozart through my LeBron James limited edition PowerBeats by Dre is almost as good as my Sennheisers.
Reply
post #35 of 128
But...but..but... all the Fandroids since like... forever... have been whining that Flash will kill iOS.

oh... wait...
post #36 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

But...but..but... all the Fandroids since like... forever... have been whining that Flash will kill iOS.

oh... wait...

never saw that argument...ever...

bragging about flash? sure some did...

most just enjoyed the option of turning it on when it was necessary.

but I don't recall anyone saying that the lack of flash will destroy iOS.



then again mindless fanboys being mindless fanboys (true mindless fanboys, not people like me who hardly scratch the surface) I wouldn't be shocked if someone did say that. But it wouldn't be big enough to make a general statement like that.
post #37 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

never saw that argument...ever...

bragging about flash? sure some did...

most just enjoyed the option of turning it on when it was necessary.

Here are a couple…

»

http://sonnati.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/5/

» http://blogs.computerworld.com/16862/android_flash And those are recent. You get back to 2007 when the iPhone won't have Flash Lite and you'll see a lot more blatant remarks about how the iPhone, along with its keyboard-less HW, will never take off.
In addition, Flash has not performed well on mobile devices. We have routinely asked Adobe to show us Flash performing well on a mobile device, any mobile device, for a few years now. We have never seen it. ~Steve Jobs, April 2010:
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #38 of 128
So I would guess that by acknowledging the change that has happened in the landscape, saying "foreseeable future" and putting more resources toward HTML 5 Development, Adobe has begun their transition period. Mobile is growing. As the Mac OS and Windows move to their next iterations (Win8, Mac OS Xi (?)), the convergence will continue. By setting their path know, Adobe is actually better preparing themselves for the eventual death of Flash as a delivery tool, and focusing on turning it into a development platform for web and apps. Sites will get rewritten, will drop Flash in favor of HTML 5, and we all, including Adobe, will be better off as a result.
post #39 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelfrancis View Post

In most cases, your writers seem to summarize an event, trend, or story in a way that either says: "Apple was right all along" or "See, this is proof that Apple really will conquer the world." As if we really needed another data point for either view.

Are you just living in fear of falling out of Apple's good graces? Are you actually Apple employees? Or are you blinded by the light...so smitten with the Apple wave that you cannot see any signal that might minimize its stature?

Chill. That's way too deep and angsty for this site. It's a pro-Apple news, rumor, and occasionally rampant speculation/unicorn-milking web site. As Steve Jobs once said verily, "what you see is what you get." (Jobs 39:43).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelfrancis View Post

But please stop writing the articles as if you are an extension of Apple's PR department. A little objectivity would restore quite a bit of your objectivity.

But why? What is the purpose of "objectivity"? Can you even measure it objectively? If you can, then what is the unit of measure for objectivity? Is there an instrument for measuring objectivity? I don't think it exists, because the claim of "objectivity" itself is a subjective judgment. If you apply a subjective judgment about a website's "objectivity," are you not therefore guilty of lacking objectivity yourself? Did I just blow your mind???

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #40 of 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Chill. That's way too deep and angsty for this site. It's a pro-Apple news, rumor, and occasionally rampant speculation/unicorn-milking web site. As Steve Jobs once said verily, "what you see is what you get." (Jobs 39:43).



But why? What is the purpose of "objectivity"? Can you even measure it objectively? If you can, then what is the unit of measure for objectivity? Is there an instrument for measuring objectivity? I don't think it exists, because the claim of "objectivity" itself is a subjective judgment. If you apply a subjective judgment about a website's "objectivity," are you not therefore guilty of lacking objectivity yourself? Did I just blow your mind???

Now that was Prime Choice!!
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
Reply
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Adobe manager puts partial blame on Apple for mobile Flash failure