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Apple issues third beta of iTunes 10.5.1 for testing iTunes Match - Page 2

post #41 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallistDah View Post

The original launch date was announced by management publicly on October 4th 2011 at which time they said it would be launched in October 2011.

Guess their calendar was broken.

Why would management put themselves in that position unless they were sure it would happen?

Better to be late than to launch something that doesn't work. Isn't that what these boards constantly do in some bizarre scizophrenic cross demands. Release the software yesterday - but it has to be perfect, while at the same time criticising apple for not taking their time and doing things right.
post #42 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Important fix.

Yeah, because I go tons of places that have neither wifi nor mobile phone service. And there's a third one you left out - computers with internet access (which includes wired).

I also think it's a bargain for what it provides (heck, I think it's worth it just to upgrade older, lower quality files). People are already paying for devices to play back their music - if a service like this makes it practical to get a device with less capacity, spending that $25 saves money. If you're replacing your iPhone more than once every four years it's cheaper to get match and save $100 on lower capacity.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TallistDah View Post

Why would management put themselves in that position unless they were sure it would happen?

People make mistakes. I'd rather see it later with fewer bugs than "on time" with more. And this latest beta does fix things that would have been an issue for me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdkid919 View Post

So couldn't you just buy iTunes Match for the first year, and then not renew it the next year? You'd still have the DRM-free files downloaded onto your computer, wouldn't you?

Yes and yes. The one time upgrade is appealing but that's just a side effect, I'm sure there will be plenty of people willing to pay $25 a year for the convenience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

Can you actually play music FROM Match/Cloud or do you have to download the file to your device first? I'm assuming it's like photo streaming where you can view (listen to) the file as well as choose to download it it to your device. So Photo Streaming = Match for music? Viewing an image file is a lot different than streaming/listening to a music file so I wonder if it will be skippy/glitchy.

It plays while downloading (which is what most streaming does anyway). The only difference to the user is that it keeps the file instead of wiping out the data, the user can then manually delete them. Sounds like skipping isn't an issue for the most part although any sort of music playback will skip if you have a slow enough connection. In which case you can just have it download and listen to something else in the meantime.
post #43 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

It plays while downloading (which is what most streaming does anyway). The only difference to the user is that it keeps the file instead of wiping out the data, the user can then manually delete them. Sounds like skipping isn't an issue for the most part although any sort of music playback will skip if you have a slow enough connection. In which case you can just have it download and listen to something else in the meantime.

But can you listen to it from the cloud WITHOUT downloading it to your device where it takes up space? Because streaming doesn't mean it has to be in the device. You know, can we listen to it like LastFM or other streaming service?
post #44 of 57
now correct me if I am wrong but the $25 is only for the Match service but on top of that you will still need to pay for the iCloud storage space...

With 3MB per song and 14 songs per CD, that would be 122 CDs one can 'Match'.

As I have 800 CDs at home that's going to be quite a bit more expensive.

Can I still pay for 1 year of iCloud and 'Match' my 800 CDs and then legally download those 33GB onto an external hard disk?
post #45 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by willowglenlover View Post

now correct me if I am wrong but the $25 is only for the Match service but on top of that you will still need to pay for the iCloud storage space...

With 3MB per song and 14 songs per CD, that would be 122 CDs one can 'Match'.

As I have 800 CDs at home that's going to be quite a bit more expensive.

Can I still pay for 1 year of iCloud and 'Match' my 800 CDs and then legally download those 33GB onto an external hard disk?

You are corrected. You don't pay for storage. You are limited to 25,000 songs, however tracks you purchased from iTunes don't count. There is no size limit so you could have one song that lasted for 24 hours and it would count as one song (of course it would take forever to copy it up). Also, tracks that aren't matched are copied in their existing bit rate up to 320k. If the file is Lossless, it is converted on your machine and then copied up to the cloud at 256K.

And for those who asked, no you can't stream to an iPhone. When you choose a song that is not on your phone it begins to download it. You can listen as you download, but it will be on your phone once the download finishes. You can delete it, but it is there initially after you listen.

However, on Macs it does actually stream. I discovered this last night when I accidentally hit play for a song that was not on my MBP. From what it looked like, it did still download the whole song, but it didn't show up in my library, so it was just in some cache somewhere.
post #46 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by willowglenlover View Post

now correct me if I am wrong but the $25 is only for the Match service

Right.

Quote:
but on top of that you will still need to pay for the iCloud storage space...

No. It's separate.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #47 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by willowglenlover View Post

Can I still pay for 1 year of iCloud and 'Match' my 800 CDs and then legally download those 33GB onto an external hard disk?

This seems to be another place where people are confused or misinformed. iTunes match has not bearing on the legality of your music. In strict legal definition, possession of a pirated tune is not a crime. In other words, even if the RIAA seized my drive and could prove through hash tags or some other means that my songs came from a pirate, they could not charge me with a crime. However, even if I deleted the files, if they could show that I uploaded or downloaded the file, I could be prosecuted.

However, in a civil trial they could win a case on the circumstantial evidence of having the songs, even without the proof of sharing.

So, what does this have to do with the question? Let's say I downloaded a thousand songs from torrents. I use iTunes match and scrub them all. I have now hidden the evidence in the file that it was stolen. But the RIAA subpoenas my ISP and gets my IP address and shows that I downloaded torrent x. The fact that I have a matched version of that file instead offers me no protection from prosecution.

So, if you want to get match to legitimize you library, you won't accomplish anything from a legal standpoint. What you will do is get 256k versions of your pirated tunes, but that won't protect you from legal action.

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney, use this information at your own risk.
post #48 of 57
All my music is ALAC so at 30mb per song...I think I'll pass. Storage ¥ would be through the roof.
post #49 of 57
I posted this in another forum and people found it helpful. So, I thought I would post it here.

Been working with Match for a few weeks and thought I would post a FAQ type response here to what I see people asking over and over again.

1. When you enable Match it goes through a three step process. Analyzing your library, matching songs, uploading non-matched content. It does this for your whole library. You can't choose to exclude songs other than taking them out of your library.

2. If a song is matched, it becomes available to download in 256K AAC. If a song is not matched it is copied in its current format and bit rate up to 320K. If the file is Lossless however, it is converted (presumably by your computer) to a 256k AAC file and then uploaded.

3. Nothing happens to your local music when you run match. If you have a lower quality song that was matched you can remove it from your local library and then replace it with the 256k version. What happens is you delete the song, but the entry in iTunes stays, but a little cloud now shows up in a newly added column that shows you that you have a song that is in the cloud but not in your library. You can click on the cloud and it will download it to your local library, where again it is now permanently yours at the higher bit rate.

4. Match uses your meta-data. If you in an anal-retentive fashion have made lots of custom edits to your files, that is what gets copied to the cloud. Even if you replace your songs with the upgraded versions you keep your previous meta-data.

5. Your limit is 25,000 songs and purchased from iTunes don't count, but matched does. Again if you have personal recordings etc. they won't match (obviously) but will be copied to the cloud in their current format (see above for Lossless exception)

6. Songs below 100k (I couldn't tell if it was below 128K since I don't have any at 100k) are listed as ineligible and nothing happens with them.

7. iTunes runs match on any new material that is added. I.e. when you rip a new album it is matched or copied to the cloud depending on how the match worked. Also, when you change meta-data, it immediately moves that meta-data to the cloud. So, if you correct a name on your iMac, it fixes the name in match. However, if you already had it downloaded on your phone, it would not be changed. But if you delete if from your phone and download it again you would see the new information.

8. iTunes match is not an amnesty program. Because there is no way to prove that matched songs came from a legitimate source, you can't claim you "own" the songs simply because you have a matched version. The RIAA might still prove that your IP address downloaded a file and sue you. Also, since meta-data is preserved if there is a comment like "ripped by mega-thief" it's still going to be there, unless you clean it manually. This does reduce the likelihood that they could prove it was illegally obtained because it had say a specific bit-sum, but it was never a crime to be in possession of files if it couldn't be proven that you up or downloaded it. So, be aware, this does little to protect you from the RIAA.

9. You have reasonable control to get songs off the cloud that you don't want there, but if you keep it in any iTunes library that has match enabled, it will re-upload it when you update the library.

10. I still have a good number of non-obscure albums that end up with 9 out of 10 songs matching. So, when I download to my phone I end up with 9 256K AAC songs and 1 128k MP3. I don't like that.

There are probably more things that people are asking, but hopefully this helps relive some of the FUD about match.
post #50 of 57
One final thought here. As I have been testing it over the part weeks it is getting better. Trust me when I say you wouldn't have wanted it as it was at the end of October. It still is not perfect, and I still don't know why they can't get all the songs in a album right sometimes. And these are not pirated albums, I ripped them myself, so I know that they are correct.

That brings up another issue which is that Gracenote data and iTunes store data is not always in sync. I had an album that was a little more obscure, but it was on iTunes and in Gracenote. When I ripped it, the song names were all screwed up. I fixed them, and then I found a link on the Gracenote site where you can report issues. I sent an email and within a few hours I got a reply saying they would fix it within 48 hours. I have to say I was impressed because I thought nothing would happen. But, Gracenote did me solid on this. But it did point out that iTunes and Gracenote are independent databases.

The last update seems to be fairly minor, so I am hoping that they are getting close to launching. Of course it will have to be at least a few days away as I can't imagine them not doing a final wipe before going public and they usually give a days notice before that happens.
post #51 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nunyabinez View Post

I posted this in another forum and people found it helpful. So, I thought I would post it here.

Been working with Match for a few weeks and thought I would post a FAQ type response here to what I see people asking over and over again.

1. When you enable Match it goes through a three step process. Analyzing your library, matching songs, uploading non-matched content. It does this for your whole library. You can't choose to exclude songs other than taking them out of your library.

2. If a song is matched, it becomes available to download in 256K AAC. If a song is not matched it is copied in its current format and bit rate up to 320K. If the file is Lossless however, it is converted (presumably by your computer) to a 256k AAC file and then uploaded.

3. Nothing happens to your local music when you run match. If you have a lower quality song that was matched you can remove it from your local library and then replace it with the 256k version. What happens is you delete the song, but the entry in iTunes stays, but a little cloud now shows up in a newly added column that shows you that you have a song that is in the cloud but not in your library. You can click on the cloud and it will download it to your local library, where again it is now permanently yours at the higher bit rate.

4. Match uses your meta-data. If you in an anal-retentive fashion have made lots of custom edits to your files, that is what gets copied to the cloud. Even if you replace your songs with the upgraded versions you keep your previous meta-data.

5. Your limit is 25,000 songs and purchased from iTunes don't count, but matched does. Again if you have personal recordings etc. they won't match (obviously) but will be copied to the cloud in their current format (see above for Lossless exception)

6. Songs below 100k (I couldn't tell if it was below 128K since I don't have any at 100k) are listed as ineligible and nothing happens with them.

7. iTunes runs match on any new material that is added. I.e. when you rip a new album it is matched or copied to the cloud depending on how the match worked. Also, when you change meta-data, it immediately moves that meta-data to the cloud. So, if you correct a name on your iMac, it fixes the name in match. However, if you already had it downloaded on your phone, it would not be changed. But if you delete if from your phone and download it again you would see the new information.

8. iTunes match is not an amnesty program. Because there is no way to prove that matched songs came from a legitimate source, you can't claim you "own" the songs simply because you have a matched version. The RIAA might still prove that your IP address downloaded a file and sue you. Also, since meta-data is preserved if there is a comment like "ripped by mega-thief" it's still going to be there, unless you clean it manually. This does reduce the likelihood that they could prove it was illegally obtained because it had say a specific bit-sum, but it was never a crime to be in possession of files if it couldn't be proven that you up or downloaded it. So, be aware, this does little to protect you from the RIAA.

9. You have reasonable control to get songs off the cloud that you don't want there, but if you keep it in any iTunes library that has match enabled, it will re-upload it when you update the library.

10. I still have a good number of non-obscure albums that end up with 9 out of 10 songs matching. So, when I download to my phone I end up with 9 256K AAC songs and 1 128k MP3. I don't like that.

There are probably more things that people are asking, but hopefully this helps relive some of the FUD about match.

Awesome post Nunyabinez. Thanks!

Quick questions:
1- I have a hodgepodge collection from totally random sources- most are ripped from CDs, some are downloaded from iTunes, some are borrowed from friends (who easily could have pirated them), etc. I'm not an audiophile by any means when it comes to music because of how I consume it. I either stream it to my Den Via ATV, on my iMac, or I listen with crappy headphone from my iPhone/iPad. Thats it. So I would not be able to distinguish "CD quality" from 320k.

So with that info, I would prefer to just replace my entire album with the iTunes stuff and delete the other junk off my computer- that was they are all the same, and its clean/concise. So when I enable Match, it will grab all my music (around 2,000 songs), and "match" it. Then I can delete everything without the cloud by it? Is this possible?


2- I have a mishmash of metadata that sucks too. A few of my songs say "unknown album", have various things in the comment section, might not be the right track number, etc. Is there a program that I can run that auto-fills in all the Meta-Data to the "iTunes info" or similar? Is TuneUp good? If so, I'll just run that prior to doing the match and get all my info cleaned up.

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

Reply
post #52 of 57
iTunes Match has been released.

Now is the time for all good men to stop talking about how it's "vaporware" and Apple is "horrible".

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
post #53 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

All my music is ALAC so at 30mb per song...I think I'll pass. Storage ¥ would be through the roof.

I'm in a similar boat to you. Almost all my library is Lossless, but I discovered that even Lossless songs that aren't matched end up being converted to 256K. If your tracks are all matched, you would have no problem because no data would be sent to the cloud. Your issue would be the time to upload as each of those tracks would be converted locally before being uploaded. But as I said earlier, size doesn't matter, it's the number of songs.

One other thing that I hear a bunch of people saying is that they are worried about what happens if they don't renew. If you are even thinking about having songs stored only on the cloud, please don't do it. My approach is this: My Mac Pro is my master library. It has everything on it and it is mostly Lossless. On my iPhone, iPad, and MBP I have 256k versions of what I am actively listening to. If the cloud crashes or I can't afford to renew, my data is safe. People, please don't be foolish with this and then get pissed of at Apple when something goes wrong. Match is not a storage solution. It is a personal music distribution system. If you make it something it isn't you could get screwed.
post #54 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Awesome post Nunyabinez. Thanks!

Quick questions:
1- I have a hodgepodge collection from totally random sources- most are ripped from CDs, some are downloaded from iTunes, some are borrowed from friends (who easily could have pirated them), etc. I'm not an audiophile by any means when it comes to music because of how I consume it. I either stream it to my Den Via ATV, on my iMac, or I listen with crappy headphone from my iPhone/iPad. Thats it. So I would not be able to distinguish "CD quality" from 320k.

So with that info, I would prefer to just replace my entire album with the iTunes stuff and delete the other junk off my computer- that was they are all the same, and its clean/concise. So when I enable Match, it will grab all my music (around 2,000 songs), and "match" it. Then I can delete everything without the cloud by it? Is this possible?


2- I have a mishmash of metadata that sucks too. A few of my songs say "unknown album", have various things in the comment section, might not be the right track number, etc. Is there a program that I can run that auto-fills in all the Meta-Data to the "iTunes info" or similar? Is TuneUp good? If so, I'll just run that prior to doing the match and get all my info cleaned up.

Yes, you can replace any song that matches with it's matched version. I was not totally clear about what you were asking, but I went through and for each album that matched I replaced it with the matched version if the bit rate was higher. FYI there is a new field that is called Match Status or something like that that shows you if it was matched, uploaded, ineligible, etc. so you can use that to decide which to delete or replace.

I have heard mixed reports about tuneup, but some people swear by it. I think it is a good idea to clean your library as much as possible, but I'm not totally sure how match does the matching. It appears that there is some kind of actual audio sampling of the tracks. So, you can't just rename a bunch of random tracks with a different album's meta-data and match it. So, fixing your meta-data may not have much effect on match, but it's worth trying to help match as much as possible.
post #55 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

iTunes Match has been released.

Now is the time for all good men to stop talking about how it's "vaporware" and Apple is "horrible".

Wow! This is a surprise. I'll have to check to see if they wiped my data from this weekend.
post #56 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nunyabinez View Post

Yes, you can replace any song that matches with it's matched version. I was not totally clear about what you were asking, but I went through and for each album that matched I replaced it with the matched version if the bit rate was higher. FYI there is a new field that is called Match Status or something like that that shows you if it was matched, uploaded, ineligible, etc. so you can use that to decide which to delete or replace.

I have heard mixed reports about tuneup, but some people swear by it. I think it is a good idea to clean your library as much as possible, but I'm not totally sure how match does the matching. It appears that there is some kind of actual audio sampling of the tracks. So, you can't just rename a bunch of random tracks with a different album's meta-data and match it. So, fixing your meta-data may not have much effect on match, but it's worth trying to help match as much as possible.

Thanks. Because my genres are all messed up too. Even the same stinking CD rip will say "pop" for 11 songs and "rock" for 2. Same CD... so strange

Any suggestion of a program to use? Free would be preferred of course. I spend 3 hours yesterday cleaning it up and it made a tiny dent. Tiny.

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

Reply
post #57 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallistDah View Post

Management announced today that Thanksgiving will be celebrated in November. It is currently in its third round of Beta testing. Beta testers have been asked to log off so that management can erase their calendars in preparation for the immanent announcement of the final date.

Sort of in beta; it's the first time AFAIK that Apple is giving extra time off during Thanksgiving
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