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Apple's restrictive pre-installed software policy halts NTT DoCoMo iPhone deal

post #1 of 43
Thread Starter 
Apple's policy that prevents partners from pre-installing software on the iPhone has stalled a possible partnership with Japan's largest wireless operator NTT DoCoMo.

It was revealed on Tuesday that ongoing talks to bring Apple's iPhone to NTT DoCoMo's network have come to a standstill, as the two companies have reached an impasse over installing the carrier's proprietary apps on the device, reports The Wall Street Journal.

NTT DoCoMo President and Chief Executive Ryuji Yamada said that certain conditions have made it difficult for the carrier to bring the iPhone onto its network. He cites Apple's large commitment requirements and a closed operating system in iOS as being the main factors of the slowdown.

"We haven't given up our hope of introducing the iPhone," but Apple usually asks carriers to commit a large volume, Yamada said. "If the introduction of the iPhone results in the mass majority of our products occupied by the iPhone, then that's a scenario that's difficult to us to swallow."

Yamada went on to say that Apple limits NTT DoCoMo from pre-installing applications he claims are important to Japanese customers, like the carrier's e-wallet and i-mode email service. He failed to mention why these apps couldn't be downloaded from the App Store after purchase, however secondary revenue may be a factor.

NTT DoCoMo President Ryuji Yamada

Pre-installed apps have the potential to drive revenue as seen in iOS 5's Newsstand, which is credited with creating a 268% rise in iPad subscriptions for major publishing house Condé Nast. The adoption of an i-mode app would be an advantage for NTT DoCoMo as the company has already invested resources to establish the service within Japan.

The carrier first rolled out i-mode in 1999 as a paid mobile internet option, providing content through official portals that allow the carrier to keep tighter control of billing. Special i-mode formatted services are hosted by the carrier and include a mobile browser and an email client, both of which require users to pay data transfer charges along with a monthly access fee. Many NTT DoCoMo feature phones feature a dedicated i-mode button that, when pressed, connects the phone to official i-mode portals.

The company's next-generation 3G service for smartphones, dubbed "sp-mode," rolled out in 2010 and carries with it many of the services that i-mode pioneered, with certain services like i-mode email now having separate apps.

The lack of easy access to i-mode apps on the iPhone could possibly cause a drop in subscriber usage leading to a decline in revenue as the service also charges a monthly rate for user access.

NTT DoCoMo's sp-mode mobile internet service for smartphones | Source: NTT DoCoMo

Since the release of the first iPhone, Apple has restricted carrier-installed applications and only pre-loads basic apps like Calculator and Mail, allowing users to customize their phone's software through the App Store.

Japan's second largest mobile carrier, KDDI Corp., recently joined wireless operator Softbank Corp. in carrying Apple's popular smartphone. Both companies reported net profit increases in the second quarter thanks in part to strong iPhone sales, while NTT DoCoMo saw a decline the same period as voice revenue continued to slip.

NTT DoCoMo's lineup of smartphones predominantly run on Google's Android platform, with most recent releases being Sony Ericsson's Xperia and Samsung's Galaxy S. Citing Japanese market data, Yamada said that Android handsets account for 70%-80% of the smartphone market while iPhone only garnered 20%-30% in July.

As more Japanese customers move away from expensive voice plans, carriers are concentrating on increasing revenue from data, with hopes riding on the growing popularity of smartphones like Apple's iPhone.
post #2 of 43
Translation:

Apple makes it harder for us to gouge our customers and won't let us install crapware so we'll stick with Android where our crapware is the best thing on the phone.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #3 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Japan's second largest mobile carrier, KDDI Corp., recently joined Softbank Corp. in carrying Apple's popular smartphone. Both companies reported increases to net profits during the second quarter thanks in part to strong iPhone sales, while NTT DoCoMo saw a decline the same period as voice revenue continued to slip.

Swallow that.
post #4 of 43
Good for Apple. I wouldn't want carrier-crap pre-installed on any phone I buy.

If I should decide to download it later after purchase, then the carrier can work extra hard to make it better carrier-crap. My choice, not theirs.
post #5 of 43
Yamada doesn't understand that not allowing carriers to change the iPhone is a big part of the reason the iPhone is popular.

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Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

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post #6 of 43
Apple cares about user experience, making it so good that the user comes back in future and brings Apple more business. Carriers care about gouging and tricking customers out of every nickel and dime they can think to get, and dont care about the user experience. (But will, no doubt, complain that the missing crapware worsens the experience for the poor users!)

If carriers want an OS that favors them and not the user, theres another OS for that....
post #7 of 43
i-mode is junk. It's like WAP services. Only in Japan can you still find ancient technologies peddled by similarly ancient Japanese corporate dinosaurs.

The longer NTT DoCoMo holds out against the iPhone, the faster KDDI and Softbank will eat its lunch. Although NTT being the giant that it is, I guess it can afford to lose a whole bunch of subscribers.
post #8 of 43
really glad that Apple doesn't allow preinstalled software from cell providers. None of this bloatware (remember VCAST?) no stupid cell phone logo startup screen and no silly ringtone each ringtone provider has.
post #9 of 43
Shame Steve's vision of bypassing the carriers never came to fruition. They all blow.

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GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #10 of 43
Sounds like AOL 20 years ago.
post #11 of 43
I don't want junk preinstalled on my phone!

I have an AT&T iPhone, and I wanted the AT&T app because it comes in handy to check your usage and such. So I went to the App Store and installed it. I'm sure it's not hard for this company to provide a pamphlet with the phone telling the customer how to install the software!

Hard to believe any carrier would turn down a popular handset like the iPhone over something so silly, which has a trivial workaround anyway.
post #12 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

however secondary revenue may be a factor.

That is EXACTLY the big sticking point between Docomo and Apple. Docomo makes a lot of money from iMode and customers pay a lot of money for access to the iMode menu which creates a lot of traffic in turn for customers. Docomo doesn't want to give that up. As Micheal Mace pointed out here: http://mobileopportunity.blogspot.co...ash-greed.html, Adobe and Macromedia got too greedy after the Docomo Flash licensing deal, I think Docomo is facing a similar situation and can't let go. Now that big sites like Mobage and Gree are moving out from the iMode tent into smartphones, it's just a matter of time before the ad budgets move as well. At some point Docomo will have to add iPhone to their portfolio if they want to stay competitive with KDDI and SoftBank.
post #13 of 43
He's a cat, flushing a toilet.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #14 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

Yamada doesn't understand that not allowing carriers to change the iPhone is a big part of the reason the iPhone is popular.

Sure he does. He wants it both ways. That's business. He thinks it's too high of a cost to carry the iPhone. Thankfully there are other options and the market will decide the winner.
post #15 of 43
Sounds like they are taking advice from Verizon...
post #16 of 43
Apple will hold its ground otherwise the floodgates will open and once again consumers will be under the thumb of the telco goliaths, sucking the marrow from the bone, just like banks are doing today.
post #17 of 43
Fuck them. Cook better not give in to them. Steve wouldn't.

Sigh. RIP SJ.
post #18 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBillyGoatGruff View Post

Sounds like they are taking advice from Verizon...

How so? Verizon has none of those bloat ware preinstalled.
post #19 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by superdx View Post

Only in Japan can you still find ancient technologies peddled by similarly ancient Japanese corporate dinosaurs.

It's always such a paradox that Japan is king of high tech, and yet its business practices are so behind the times.

This is nothing new. As late as 1989, it was rare to see even a single PC in an office in Tokyo, with everything still being done by hand.
post #20 of 43
Quote:
NTT DoCoMo President and Chief Executive Ryuji Yamada said that certain conditions have made it difficult for the carrier to bring the iPhone onto its network

Certain conditions? Apple doesn't want certain conditions. Apple wants you to come on board and make a ton of money you idiot.

Quote:
He cites Apple's large commitment requirements and a closed operating system in iOS as being the main factors of the slowdown.

Bullshit, Apple doesn't want your crapware on their phones, so they declined you. You retaliate by attacking the brand, you want Apple to lose face, don't you?

Quote:
"We haven't given up our hope of introducing the iPhone," but Apple usually asks carriers to commit a large volume, Yamada said. "If the introduction of the iPhone results in the mass majority of our products occupied by the iPhone, then that's a scenario that's difficult to us to swallow. "

Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

Swallow that.




NTT DoCoMo President and Chief Executive Ryuji Yamada

post #21 of 43
Looks like Yamada better be polishing up his resume. Methink he won't be lasting too long while his competitors are raking in the additional revenue from carrying the iPhone.

You want crapware, stick with Android. You want a clean, consistent experience, Apple does it best.
post #22 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by starbird View Post

How so? Verizon has none of those bloat ware preinstalled.

I believe he means on Verizon phones in general. Obviously not the iPhone, which dampens the effectiveness of his comment somewhat.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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post #23 of 43
When you can't compete, you copy. When you can't copy, you lie, When you can't lie, you monopolize! It basic telco business 101.
post #24 of 43
Gee I wonder where the regular trolls are saying how Apple's closed system and Android's open system is better for customers?

The world of cellphone users are better for Apple's entry into this market. NTT DoCoMo will not win here.
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post #25 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by starbird View Post

How so? Verizon has none of those bloat ware preinstalled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I believe he means on Verizon phones in general. Obviously not the iPhone, which dampens the effectiveness of his comment somewhat.

I'm glad you know what I meant.

I was referring to Verizon's initial rejection of the iPhone due to revenue and control of the relationship...

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/20...n-iphone_x.htm

...only to come around later.

I'm not aware that anyone ever explicitly admitted to crapware being an issue, but that was widely rumored to be a sticking-point, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deewin View Post

really glad that Apple doesn't allow preinstalled software from cell providers. None of this bloatware (remember VCAST?) no stupid cell phone logo startup screen and no silly ringtone each ringtone provider has.
post #26 of 43
One of the best things about iPhone -- no carrier-ware.
post #27 of 43
It's pretty obvious that DoCoMo is just a front for the Judoon.
post #28 of 43
Assist them in making the apps they want pre-installed, but only allow it as a download on the app store post purchase. Deal done.
post #29 of 43
I wholeheartedly agree, Apple should waive the $99 iOS Developer Program fee for NTT DoCoMo.

post #30 of 43
No livin' way...

...You don't tell Apple to do anything!
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post #31 of 43
Not on the iPhone, but check out the other offerings, such as Android. Do an Internet Search. Verizon is very big on installing crap ware. Not installing crap ware is something Apple has carried over from Macs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by starbird View Post

How so? Verizon has none of those bloat ware preinstalled.
post #32 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Gee I wonder where the regular trolls are saying how Apple's closed system and Android's open system is better for customers?

The world of cellphone users are better for Apple's entry into this market. NTT DoCoMo will not win here.

*snort*

The irony is when a carrier like DoCoMo says "open" they mean they want the smartphone manufacturer to open their smartphones to the carrier's preloaded shovelware, branding, and carrier-locking of frequencies and/or SIM chips. Trust me, what the carriers typically end up selling you is anything BUT "open" and what you end up getting is locked to their network.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #33 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBillyGoatGruff View Post

Sounds like they are taking advice from Verizon...

Verizon: Let's talk about selling iPhones.
Apple: Ok.
Verizon: We want to load V-Cast on every one we sell.
Apple: No.
Verizon: Can you at least put our logo on the back?
Apple: No.
Verizon: Ok, how about a peel off sticker with a Verizon logo?
Apple: No.
Verizon: Can we load the Verizon store on there?
Apple: No.
Verizon: Will you at least put Java on it so we can--
Apple: No.
Verizon: How about showing the Verizon logo when it boots?
Apple: No.
Verizon: Can we put a Verizon wallpaper on the lock screen?
Apple: No.
Verizon: Can we we require customers to have to call Verizon to activate it?
Apple: iTunes option doesn't come off the table.

Verizon: Ok, we have a deal.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #34 of 43
No, that's not how it went. The conversation was much shorter.

Verizon (nervously): We have some contingencies to discuss with you.
Apple (blandly): Here's our standard contract. All our other partners signed it. If you don't like it, our Gulfstream V already has landing rights in Kansas City. We can text Dan; he'll probably send out a car to drive us to Overland Park.
Verizon (eagerly): Where do we sign?
post #35 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

*snort*

The irony is when a carrier like DoCoMo says "open" they mean they want the smartphone manufacturer to open their smartphones to the carrier's preloaded shovelware, branding, and carrier-locking of frequencies and/or SIM chips. Trust me, what the carriers typically end up selling you is anything BUT "open" and what you end up getting is locked to their network.

Google talks up a good game about openness but there customers are the handset/tablet vendors and carriers, not the end users, so you end up with a closed and lock system that typically has more crapware than anything that predated Android entering the market.

Sure, you can always root your device and find some clean version of the firmware built by some coder that goes by the dubious name that included some cute play on words and a pejorative remark against Apple or Obama, but 1) can you be sure there is no spyware included in that build, 2) is this really the kind of thing these users expect the average consumer to deal with. Bottom line is you don't win mindshare by fucking your customer base with crappy pre-installed software which is why those $400 PCs you see in Office Depot are not being used for 3, 4 or 5 years like Macs.
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post #36 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

No, that's not how it went. The conversation was much shorter.

Verizon (nervously): We have some contingencies to discuss with you.
Apple (blandly): Here's our standard contract. All our other partners signed it. If you don't like it, our Gulfstream V already has landing rights in Kansas City. We can text Dan; he'll probably send out a car to drive us to Overland Park.
Verizon (eagerly): Where do we sign?

This is how the second conversation went. When the iPhone first came out the conversation with Verizon was much more like what Simply Newton said, except that in the end neither Apple or Verizon budged. After seeing the amazing success of the iPhone on AT&T, then your conversation is correct.
post #37 of 43
Apple doesn't allow preloaded crap-ware that can't be deleted/hidden on their phones...unless Apple wants it there.


I have no use for Newstand, nor do I want it on its own page or to force it into a folder that corrupts it. I just want the option to get it off my phone. Thanks for not letting me do what I want with an app ON MY OWN PHONE Apple.
post #38 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Google talks up a good game about openness but there customers are the handset/tablet vendors and carriers, not the end users, so you end up with a closed and lock system that typically has more crapware than anything that predated Android entering the market.

Sure, you can always root your device and find some clean version of the firmware built by some coder that goes by the dubious name that included some cute play on words and a pejorative remark against Apple or Obama, but 1) can you be sure there is no spyware included in that build, 2) is this really the kind of thing these users expect the average consumer to deal with. Bottom line is you don't win mindshare by fucking your customer base with crappy pre-installed software which is why those $400 PCs you see in Office Depot are not being used for 3, 4 or 5 years like Macs.

You only got it partly right, once the phone is rooted bloatware can simply be uninstalled.
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post #39 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by airnerd View Post

Thanks for not letting me do what I want with an app ON MY OWN PHONE Apple.

"I want to put Windows Phone 7 on my iPhone because it's MY IPHONE; I can do with it what I want."



You can easily not update to iOS 5. That's doing what you want with it. I know people still on 1.1.3. 'Course, that's just because they're morons who don't know they can update.

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #40 of 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

"I want to put Windows Phone 7 on my iPhone because it's MY IPHONE; I can do with it what I want."



You can easily not update to iOS 5. That's doing what you want with it. I know people still on 1.1.3. 'Course, that's just because they're morons who don't know they can update.

I am not wanting to add anything. I should be able to take a program that isn't being used off my phone, or at least hide it in a folder. I'm not asking to delete iTunes or anything like that, but a stupid app that takes up space. Yeah, I can hide it on the last page or trick it into a folder, but that doesn't sound safe. All I want is all apps to be hideable. Even give me a setting that I can turn it on or off, at least.


And no, I can't "easily not update to iOS 5". There was no option when buying the 4S, and it would be dumb to have a 4S and not iOS 5.
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