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Teardown of Amazon's Kindle Fire reveals Texas Instruments OMAP 4430 chip

post #1 of 58
Thread Starter 
A teardown of Amazon's new Kindle Fire showed that the online retailer went with the 1GHz Texas Instruments OMAP 4430 processor for its entry into the media tablet market.

iFixit took apart the device, undertaking in the process the publication's first in-house chip unmasking. The Kindle Fire proved to be relatively easy to tear down and earned a score of 8 out of 10 for repairability. By comparison, Apple's iPad 2 received a 4 out of 10 during its teardown.

In addition to the TI OMAP 4430 chip, the teardown of the Fire found 8GB of Samsung Flash memory, 512MB of Hynix RAM and several other Texas Instruments chips on-board the Fire.

Earlier reports had suggested that Amazon would go with the same chip as Research in Motion's PlayBook tablet in order to keep costs down and move the project along. The PlayBook does, in fact, also use the TI OMAP 4430 chip.

The teardown also noted that the tablet's only button is a power button, a fact that has drawn some criticism from reviewers. Reviews for the device have been generally positive, with most noting that the Fire is a good deal but no "iPad killer."



According to the report, the capacity of the 3.7 volt battery stands at 16.28 Watt-hours, significantly less than the iPad 2's 25 Watt-hours. iFixit also pointed out that charging the Fire over a computer USB port will take longer than the advertised four-hour charge time for when the device is plugged into an outlet.

A recent survey of more than 2,000 developers found growing interest in the Kindle Fire, with 49 percent of those surveyed indicating they were "very interested" in developing for the device. Meanwhile, Apple maintained a dominant share with 88 percent of respondents interested in developing for the iPad.



As for consumers, 26 percent of Kindle Fire buyers say they delayed or put on hold an iPad purchase, according to a survey by ChangeWave and RBC Capital Markets.

Amazon revealed last month that it is building millions more Kindle Fires than originally planned. One recent report claimed the company is looking to build 5 million units by the end of the year.

But, Apple has said it is not worried about the Fire affecting iPad sales. Company executives recently indicated that they believe Amazon's tablet will further fragment the market because it is a fork off Android. Apple reportedly believes the more fragmentation the better, as it will drive customers toward its stable iPad platform.
post #2 of 58
The customer reviews on Amazon are overwhelmingly positive, with a clear majority giving the Kindle Fire 5 stars. The most valued critical review still gives it 3 out of 5 stars. It seems that Amazon did it right, despite the modest HW specs.

http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Color-M...owViewpoints=1
post #3 of 58
Saying the Kindle Fire contributes to Android fragmentation is like saying OSX is fragmenting Unix.
post #4 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

The customer reviews on Amazon are overwhelmingly positive, with a clear majority giving the Kindle Fire 5 stars. The most valued critical review still gives it 3 out of 5 stars. It seems that Amazon did it right, despite the modest HW specs.

http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Color-M...owViewpoints=1

They did do it right cuz they kept it focused and did a great job on the UI as opposed to the typical clunky Android UI.

They focused on making sure the device was great at ebooks, magazines, music, video, games, email, web browsing, & apps such as Facebook, Twitter, Pandora, etc.. (your typical content consumption apps)

Good for them.
post #5 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

Saying the Kindle Fire contributes to Android fragmentation is like saying OSX is fragmenting Unix.

MacOSX is almost never seen as part of the Unix world, when comparing market share.
Why? Because MacOSX blows away Unix/Linux on the desktop. MacOSX doesn't really "suffer" from this fragmentation, does it?
In contrast: there are many small players in the Android world, which gives the term "fragmentation" quite different ring.

One should notice that the Linux/Android community is trying very hard to make it appear that all Androids effectively form one platform.

Luckily for Apple, it turns out that MacOSX only needs to compete with each Android incarnation separately, much unlike what the Android advertising machine wants you to believe.
post #6 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

The customer reviews on Amazon are overwhelmingly positive, with a clear majority giving the Kindle Fire 5 stars. The most valued critical review still gives it 3 out of 5 stars. It seems that Amazon did it right, despite the modest HW specs.

http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Color-M...owViewpoints=1

We are seeing "PC" all again.
History is repeating it self.

These people who gives 5 stars reviews have used their Fires for minutes and have used about 0 Apps. But ignorance is bliss. If you have not used an iPad, of course the Kindle Fire rulezzzz.

Just like PC. The wast majority of people have never used a mac. They only have used windows. They think windows is great. Rebooting, crashing, viruses are natural part of computing. Nobody screams at their PC if it crashes, they are used to it.
At work I have a Sun Workstation. It crashes about 1 each year. Since I am not used to crashes I go berserk each time its happens. I don't accept crashes, viruses, malware or other stuff since all that is Windows related, no real computer have those problems.

This is also the reason why Windows Phone does not sell well. Most people have used Android/iOS. They don't accept a subpar product. Here people have something to compare against.

Kindle is good enough = people does not try iPad that is way better. Since they don't know is better, they are content and happy.

PC (especially Win7) is good enough = people don't try real computers. (anything *nix based). They accept viruses and so on.

Mobile phones. Android is good enough = people does not try iOS. Fandroids are fanatical. (like all surveys have shown. Most Android users would NEVER use an iPhone. Most Apple users would use an Android if it was better.

So.. this is a sad world that accept second grade products because they never have tried anything else.

The Amazon cult will burst someday. The share price have a P/E over 110. Appel have a trailing P/E of 9. With money 6. Somehow people values Amazon 20 times more then Apple shares. These Wall Street idiots still believe that market share is everything. Its the .com bubble all again. Amazon looses upwards 100 dollar on each Fire sold. Wall Street is happy since they gain market share. Just give away the product and have 100% market share?

Lets hope Apple does not do the same mistake they did in mid 80is. I want to have 1 company that does fanatical, perfect, elegant, art products.
But Apples track record since Steve left early 2011 is not promising....
post #7 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

We are seeing "PC" all again.
History is repeating it self.

These people who gives 5 stars reviews have used their Fires for minutes and have used about 0 Apps. But ignorance is bliss. If you have not used an iPad, of course the Kindle Fire rulezzzz.

Just like PC. The wast majority of people have never used a mac. They only have used windows. They think windows is great. Rebooting, crashing, viruses are natural part of computing. Nobody screams at their PC if it crashes, they are used to it.
At work I have a Sun Workstation. It crashes about 1 each year. Since I am not used to crashes I go berserk each time its happens. I don't accept crashes, viruses, malware or other stuff since all that is Windows related, no real computer have those problems.

This is also the reason why Windows Phone does not sell well. Most people have used Android/iOS. They don't accept a subpar product. Here people have something to compare against.

Kindle is good enough = people does not try iPad that is way better. Since they don't know is better, they are content and happy.

PC (especially Win7) is good enough = people don't try real computers. (anything *nix based). They accept viruses and so on.

Mobile phones. Android is good enough = people does not try iOS. Fandroids are fanatical. (like all surveys have shown. Most Android users would NEVER use an iPhone. Most Apple users would use an Android if it was better.

So.. this is a sad world that accept second grade products because they never have tried anything else.

The Amazon cult will burst someday. The share price have a P/E over 110. Appel have a trailing P/E of 9. With money 6. Somehow people values Amazon 20 times more then Apple shares. These Wall Street idiots still believe that market share is everything. Its the .com bubble all again. Amazon looses upwards 100 dollar on each Fire sold. Wall Street is happy since they gain market share. Just give away the product and have 100% market share?

Lets hope Apple does not do the same mistake they did in mid 80is. I want to have 1 company that does fanatical, perfect, elegant, art products.
But Apples track record since Steve left early 2011 is not promising....

Comedy hour on AI?

Most Android users have used iOS. A lot have iPads (and even consider it the only tablet worth owning - like I do)

I've seen hundreds of comments from people here who have not used Android at all. And considering the religious like following Apple has most will never try Android.

People do not like the same things. I do wish Android was as smooth an experience as iOS. It isn't. However I do not like iOS. I do not want a 3.5 inch screen. I do not want an app launcher for a homescreen. I want and enjoy tinkering and control. I like the pseudo open nature of Android and the community always pushing the envelope.

Even then I don't agree nor like everything about Android. I do not like the lack of at least an app icon template. I do not like the overwhelming number of poor quality apps (luckily the apps I use are high quality)

When I pick up an iPhone I know how to use it. It is okay IMO. But too small. And too limiting (which is why I can't Eben enjoy WP7 as it is so boring despite the fact that I think the UI is the best out there)

I do wish Google would exercise more control of Android. But they don't or won't and I can live with that.

There are specific reasons I don't use iOS (or Mac OSX at home) little things I don't like.

Fandroids overall are a hell of a lot more open minded than iPhanboys.

We tend not to worship Google. You can go to any Android blog then any Apple blog and compare the glorification/complaint ratio of articles on each. Android blogs say a lot more and criticise a lot more. They desire control. We don't need to be coddled and ushered into an age of whitewashed simplicity.

I like that the twitter integration you now have is native on android by simply installing an app. I like being able to completely swap out almost every stock app at my discretion. I can share almost anything through almost any app that adds a line of code. These are freedoms you will never enjoy. My device is mine. Android screenshot threads vs iOS screenshot threads are utterly hilarious. That alone should show you some of why people choose Android. It's not some ignorance of iOS. Who the hell is ignorant of iOS? It is not a hatred of Apple. A lot of the CM team USE macs to make Cyanogenmods.

So what is it? Choice. Freedom. Ownership.

The kindle is not a second rate iPad. It is a kindle. A portal into Amazon's ecosystem. A content streaming device. An e-reader. Not even a competitor to the iPad. No one who wants an iPad would be swayed into getting a kindle. Most who want a kindle could be swayed into getting an iPad. The iPad is scores more useful than a Kindle Fire.

But not everyone needs an iPad or is heavily invested in Apple's ecosystem nor do they wish to be.

Your walled garden is beautiful and landscaped to perfection. Sure.

I like my world just fine.
post #8 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanFruniken View Post

MacOSX is almost never seen as part of the Unix world, when comparing market share.
Why? Because MacOSX blows away Unix/Linux on the desktop. MacOSX doesn't really "suffer" from this fragmentation, does it?
In contrast: there are many small players in the Android world, which gives the term "fragmentation" quite different ring.

One should notice that the Linux/Android community is trying very hard to make it appear that all Androids effectively form one platform.

Luckily for Apple, it turns out that MacOSX only needs to compete with each Android incarnation separately, much unlike what the Android advertising machine wants you to believe.

Wasn't sure mac osx was even competing with Android. -_-

And there are forks of Android and skins of Android and versions of Android.

A phone running Sense 3.5 and a phone running Touchwhiz 4.0 are both the same version of Android with different skins.

A tablet running Amazon's Android and a tablet running Stock Android are not as Amazon has forked Android into it's own separate entity.

That's what he meant by "calling OSX a version of Unix"
post #9 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Comedy hour on AI?

Most Android users have used iOS.

This is absolute nonsense.

Look at the figures. The overwhelming majority of iPhone users stick with iPhones. IIRC, the percentage who leave the iPhone to switch to Android is in the single digits.

So if less than 10% of iPhone users switch to Android and Android phones outsell iPhones by a significant margins, how does that work out? Obviously, the majority if Android users are NOT coming from iPhones.

Furthermore, it doesn't take to long to realize that a large fraction of Android fans (certainly on sites like this) absolutely refuse to have anything to do with Apple products for 'religious' reasons.

Sure, they may have seen their neighbor's cousin's sister-in-law's iPhone for 10 seconds and think that makes them an expert, but in reality, most of them have not.
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post #10 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

So if less than 10% of iPhone users switch to Android and Android phones outsell iPhones by a significant margins, how does that work out? Obviously, the majority if Android users are NOT coming from iPhones.

I think you're mistaking 'used' with 'owned'.
post #11 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

I think you're mistaking 'used' with 'owned'.

Se his last sentence. He realized his fundamental error, and made ups a"fact" to compensate.
post #12 of 58
Actually I believe he said they had used iOS, not specifically an iPhone. Like you I wouldn't make the claim that most Android owners had used/owned iOS devices (such as an iPod), but I do believe a very significant percentage have, yet still went with an Android smartphone.
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post #13 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Comedy hour on AI?

There are specific reasons I don't use iOS (or Mac OSX at home) little things I don't like.

Fandroids overall are a hell of a lot more open minded than iPhanboys.

We tend not to worship Google. You can go to any Android blog then any Apple blog and compare the glorification/complaint ratio of articles on each. Android blogs say a lot more and criticise a lot more. They desire control. We don't need to be coddled and ushered into an age of whitewashed simplicity.

I like that the twitter integration you now have is native on android by simply installing an app. I like being able to completely swap out almost every stock app at my discretion. I can share almost anything through almost any app that adds a line of code. These are freedoms you will never enjoy. My device is mine. Android screenshot threads vs iOS screenshot threads are utterly hilarious. That alone should show you some of why people choose Android. It's not some ignorance of iOS. Who the hell is ignorant of iOS? It is not a hatred of Apple. A lot of the CM team USE macs to make Cyanogenmods.

That is a lot of crap I say. When going to android based forums the apple bashing is even worse than on vice versa on this forum. I have been to many....

And many G-worshipers (and there are a VERY large number out there) that dont see google ever doing ANYTHING bad. And if you ask google is doing this all out of their goodness of heart (developing android). But like always you CANT pull everyone through your stereotypical mold by makeing an asumption of everybody on this forum isnt discussing features without criticism. There are many here that can criticize Apple on a large number of choices. Most fo them arent any dealbreakers. Some might be for some people.

There are those that have jailbroken devices and think thats enough for some. I for one have compiled enough kernels and sources to appreciate that something works (mostly) without bugs and debuging and you dont need to read the manual to use a function (nor edit 200 lines of configs). I have no want to use the terminal on my phone if I dont need to. And you shouldnt need to on a phone. In my humble opinion android is not so polished that I would use it but thats a personal choise, Amen! Many mac enthusiasts like the polished user interfaces and
especially LOGICAL interfaces. And you can still hack as much as you want IF you want. On a phone i would dare to say test, If you modify software you are going to have to alfatest it and you can usually count ME out on those (alfatesting phone operating systems, i NEED my phone).

And the rooting of android devices. Whats the difference to eg jailbreaking an iphone. Atleast you avoid your warranty in both cases. You could install android on the iphone if you wanted to (yes somebody has already done it) but I cant think of a single reason this would be great (other than maybe for demo purposes).. The bottomline is that you can do anything that you want to YOUR iphone or android phone. Nobody is going to stop you. I dont know what you are rambling about the walled garden. ITS A CHOICE. You dont need to if you dont want to... on ANY platform (you will have to prove me wrong!).

To me it looks like IOS phone folks are _quite_ happy with their user interface and rather not muck around with it too much and instead put the effort on features (via jailbreak community). It puzzles me that so many are unhappy with their android phones that they have to rip everything out and put something else in Either they dont have a life or they are pissed about what they got..

What comes down to criticism on this web-forum, I would say that this site is as good or as bad as all the other sites. There are allways those that try to provoke argument for the sake of argument on any site.
post #14 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...The teardown also noted that the tablet's only button is a power button, a fact that has drawn some criticism from reviewers...

Did we need a teardown to figure that out?
post #15 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

The customer reviews on Amazon are overwhelmingly positive, with a clear majority giving the Kindle Fire 5 stars. The most valued critical review still gives it 3 out of 5 stars. It seems that Amazon did it right, despite the modest HW specs.

http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Color-M...owViewpoints=1

FYI, the 1 star movement is growing among actual owners of the device. Amazon fans, no less vociferous than Apple fans, are actually defending the Fire against these attacks by saying things like "What did you expect? A tablet? At this price?" and then saying, as if it's a good thing, that what this device is really made for and really excels at is shopping at Amazon.
post #16 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

This is absolute nonsense.

Look at the figures. The overwhelming majority of iPhone users stick with iPhones. IIRC, the percentage who leave the iPhone to switch to Android is in the single digits.

So if less than 10% of iPhone users switch to Android and Android phones outsell iPhones by a significant margins, how does that work out? Obviously, the majority if Android users are NOT coming from iPhones.

Furthermore, it doesn't take to long to realize that a large fraction of Android fans (certainly on sites like this) absolutely refuse to have anything to do with Apple products for 'religious' reasons.

Sure, they may have seen their neighbor's cousin's sister-in-law's iPhone for 10 seconds and think that makes them an expert, but in reality, most of them have not.

Never said they left iOS...I said they've used iOS...I've never had an iPhone before I bought an Android phone. But I've used them.

And do you really think Fandroids are anywhere near as ravenous and cult-like as iPhanboys? That's like saying a "militant" atheist is as ravenous as a fundamentalist Christian. They may both scream loud and make noise but one is significantly more loyal to their cause.
post #17 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

iFixit also pointed out that charging the Fire over a computer USB port will take longer than the advertised four-hour charge time for when the device is plugged into an outlet.

Could this sentence be anymore awkward? So is the advertised four-hour charge time over USB or outlet?
post #18 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


Reviews for the device have been generally positive, with most noting that the Fire is a good deal but no "iPad killer."

As for consumers, 26 percent of Kindle Fire buyers say they delayed or put on hold an iPad purchase, according to a survey by ChangeWave and RBC Capital Markets.

][/url][/c]

Wrong and wrong. The reviews are generally kind of middling and the 26%, a number highly suspect due to margin of error almost as high as the segment of the sample, were not Fire buyers but people who had ordered or were thinking of ordering a Fire.
post #19 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by habi View Post

That is a lot of crap I say. When going to android based forums the apple bashing is even worse than on vice versa on this forum. I have been to many....

And many G-worshipers (and there are a VERY large number out there) that dont see google ever doing ANYTHING bad. And if you ask google is doing this all out of their goodness of heart (developing android). But like always you CANT pull everyone through your stereotypical mold by makeing an asumption of everybody on this forum isnt discussing features without criticism. There are many here that can criticize Apple on a large number of choices. Most fo them arent any dealbreakers. Some might be for some people.

There are those that have jailbroken devices and think thats enough for some. I for one have compiled enough kernels and sources to appreciate that something works (mostly) without bugs and debuging and you dont need to read the manual to use a function (nor edit 200 lines of configs). I have no want to use the terminal on my phone if I dont need to. And you shouldnt need to on a phone. In my humble opinion android is not so polished that I would use it but thats a personal choise, Amen! Many mac enthusiasts like the polished user interfaces and
especially LOGICAL interfaces. And you can still hack as much as you want IF you want. On a phone i would dare to say test, If you modify software you are going to have to alfatest it and you can usually count ME out on those (alfatesting phone operating systems, i NEED my phone).

And the rooting of android devices. Whats the difference to eg jailbreaking an iphone. Atleast you avoid your warranty in both cases. You could install android on the iphone if you wanted to (yes somebody has already done it) but I cant think of a single reason this would be great (other than maybe for demo purposes).. The bottomline is that you can do anything that you want to YOUR iphone or android phone. Nobody is going to stop you. I dont know what you are rambling about the walled garden. ITS A CHOICE. You dont need to if you dont want to... on ANY platform (you will have to prove me wrong!).

To me it looks like IOS phone folks are _quite_ happy with their user interface and rather not muck around with it too much and instead put the effort on features (via jailbreak community). It puzzles me that so many are unhappy with their android phones that they have to rip everything out and put something else in Either they dont have a life or they are pissed about what they got..

What comes down to criticism on this web-forum, I would say that this site is as good or as bad as all the other sites. There are allways those that try to provoke argument for the sake of argument on any site.

Prove your point then. Show me an Android blog, like this site, that has anywhere near the number of Apple articles (often not even related to the site's focus) and the number of posters who are anywhere near as anti-Apple as the Anti-anything-not-Apple-ers here.

When you can find me one forum site, news site that comes even remotely close to what can be seen here I will concede defeat and apologize for wasting your time.

Note, not some random anti-Apple comment, I mean a consistent, anti-Apple atmosphere.

A popular blog site, not some random teenagers rant blog.
post #20 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by habi View Post

That is a lot of crap I say. When going to android based forums the apple bashing is even worse than on vice versa on this forum. I have been to many....

I don't spend much time around Android-specific forums, but from my limited visits I've usually seen civil discourse when Apple/Android comparisons are made. Personally I couldn't agree that Apple bashing is standard fare on Android-centric user forums. Perhaps given a few more years they could become just as pseudo-religious as some (not all) Apple fans. For now I haven't seen it very often other than sites like Engadget.
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post #21 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by strask View Post

FYI, the 1 star movement is growing among actual owners of the device...

LOL, true that! The initial 10-20 1-star reviews were almost exclusively from people who didn't have the device. Now the proportion of those who actually own it and give 1 star is, understandably, growing. Nevertheless, those appear to be the most poorly written, misinformed and baseless reviews, and you can see that for yourself.

I do think that the predominant 5-star rating is swayed by the lowered expectations due to the low price. The average 4-star rating is likely more realistic. Still, that leaves us with a better than average product with a below average price tag.
post #22 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

Saying the Kindle Fire contributes to Android fragmentation is like saying OSX is fragmenting Unix.

Silly. OSX is based on UNIX but no one is selling it to consumers.

The Kindle is a fork of Android which is being sold to consumers.


No one is expecting all UNIX system to work together or be able to share the same AppStore and stores for media consumption.

On the other hand, consumer would expect all Android devices to share the same AppStores and stores for media consumption.


The Kindle divides Android and brings with it a WALLED GARDEN for it's AppStore.
post #23 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

Saying the Kindle Fire contributes to Android fragmentation is like saying OSX is fragmenting Unix.

Okay... let's just say that we give you that one... the Fire doesn't contribute to Android fragmentation.

... but what does it do to Android tablet sales?

I'd say that anyone trying to sell any other Android tablet this holiday season, at least in the US, might as well pack up their tent and go home.
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post #24 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Okay... let's just say that we give you that one... the Fire doesn't contribute to Android fragmentation.

... but what does it do to Android tablet sales?

I'd say that anyone trying to sell any other Android tablet this holiday season, at least in the US, might as well pack up their tent and go home.

My guess is that the Nook Tablet will also sell very well. It costs $50 more, but is much more capable.
post #25 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Okay... let's just say that we give you that one... the Fire doesn't contribute to Android fragmentation.

... but what does it do to Android tablet sales?

I'd say that anyone trying to sell any other Android tablet this holiday season, at least in the US, might as well pack up their tent and go home.

QFT. If the Kindle Fire sells as well as it is expected, Android tablet vendors (possibly excluding B&N with the Nook) will be negatively affected. However, in absolute numbers, the lost iPad sales may be significantly higher due to its dominant market share.
post #26 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Never said they left iOS...I said they've used iOS...I've never had an iPhone before I bought an Android phone. But I've used them.

" But I've used them."

Just what does that mean?

What have you used an iPhone for?

How long did you use it?

When? What Model Phone? What version of iOS?

Did you set up the iPhone with your personal information so you could make and receive phone calls, texts, emails, chats, video chats, etc.?

How many things did you buy from the app store or the music store?

Did you use AirPrint? AirPlay?

Did you use Siri? Long enough for Siri to recognize your voice and contacts, relationships, nicknames?

Did you ever try iTunes match -- where all your music purchases and your entire music collection is available instantly? (14,000 plus songs for our household)

How many apps did you run? Which ones?

Did you use it through a full discharge/recharge cycle to assess its usability?

Did you use it through an OS update cycle?

How long did you have to wait for the latest OS release to be available that was applicable to your model iPhone.

How long did the OS install take?

How many times did you need to back-install a prior OS release?

How many carrier-installed apps did you find that you would like to remove?

How many manufacturer-installed apps did you find that you would like to remove?

Did you JailBreak the iPhone so it was as flexible as your rooted Android phone?

How many JailBreak apps did you install?

How many apps did you write and install?


Unless you've done most of the things -- you've not really used an iPhone.


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post #27 of 58
1) It's a $200 eReader with some tablet-esque capabilities. The price point to functionality ratio is great, but it's not a great tablet. Apple set that bar, no one else has come close to reaching it.

2) Why does every competitor to Apple get these thanks-for-participating qualifiers like "It's pretty good for a first attempt" or "It's pretty good for $200." Apple didn't get that with their $500 iPad. In fact quite the opposite was said about the usefulness, and longevity of the device that didn't follow in the footsteps of 3 decades of failed tablet designs.

3) Kindle Fire OS is a fork, that means it's not fragmenting Android because it's not part of the Android OS ecosystem. What Kindle Fire is a fragmentation of the entire tablet market. It's yet another OS that developers have to deal with for the market as a whole if they want to push their apps. Kindle Fire OS is more like a distant cousin that wouldn't even be a match as a liver donor when Android gets cirrhosis for drinking it self to the bottom of the OEM bottle.

4) Kindle Fires are going to be a hit this season, but they won't take a hit on iPad sales. No one hems and haws about a products that are 2.5x the different in price. What the Kindle Fire (and Nook Color) may do is give consumers who would have not spent $500 or more on a tablet the taste of how a tablet can be useful, so after they get the Fisher Price version they very well may want to get a real tablet for their next purchase. This means Amazon needs to get a proper 10" tablet for next year or risk losing in the long term.
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post #28 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

" But I've used them."

Just what does that mean?

Instead of asking a bunch of questions, why don't you specify the exact time needed for a person to form an educated opinion about a device. Something in the lines of "received 100 calls on iPhone", "installed 20 apps on iPad", "set up 10 calendar appointments through Siri".

That way, we can all be on the same page.
post #29 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

2) Why does every competitor to Apple get these thanks-for-participating qualifiers like "It's pretty good for a first attempt" or "It's pretty good for $200." Apple didn't get that with their $500 iPad. In fact quite the opposite was said about the usefulness, and longevity of the device that didn't follow in the footsteps of 3 decades of failed tablet designs.

You just answered your own question. For $500, people expect significantly more. Just look at all Android tablets that flopped when introduced at around $600...
post #30 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

QFT. If the Kindle Fire sells as well as it is expected, Android tablet vendors (possibly excluding B&N with the Nook) will be negatively affected. However, in absolute numbers, the lost iPad sales may be significantly higher due to its dominant market share.

No doubt it will cut into iPad sales. My guess is that Fire sales (no pun intended) will diminish dramatically come January... not that the iPad won't also slow at this time but iPad has the chance to again increase sales with an increase in features and/or ability with the iPad 3. If the Fire can extend its features and/or ability then it too may see increased sales in the future but, imo, after Christmas it will be a slow year for the Fire.

As far as the Nook is concerned... I wouldn't want to be in B & N's shoes right now. It seems to me that the customer group that would buy the Nook aren't looking beyond basic features and therefore the Fire, being cheaper (and much better advertised), would be their first choice.
Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
Reply
post #31 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

" But I've used them."

Just what does that mean?

That I've spent an extensive time with an iPhone and currently own an iPad and have a full feel of how polished iOS is and how functional and how smooth the entire experience is.

Quote:
What have you used an iPhone for?

Calls, web browsing, games, notes, text messages, instant messaging, music, videos

Quote:
How long did you use it?

Combined? I can't really quantify that as I've used them sporadically when my phone (ironically) died or I left it at home. I'll say over the course of 4 years about 2 weeks worth of usage.

Quote:
When? What Model Phone? What version of iOS?

In 2007 when my friend (her name is Lauren) got one I couldn't keep my hands off of it for hours...it was the new hotness, a sight unseen before. I was serious amazed.

Throughout the year I'd get many other opportunities to use one and would've probably bought one (the 3G) but at that point in time shit decided to amass together and slam headfirst into the fan so I was stuck using my WM6.1 phone a bit longer.

The 3G added apps, which were AWESOME and I would use Lauren's and other friends phones whenever we were lazily chilling or my lackluster T-mobile Dash was just lame.

(insert Android - 10/21/2008)

3GS came out...faster phone overall, fun to use. At this point I was mainly using people's iPhones for Games and music as in late 08 Android could hardly be called a competitor.

The 4...beautiful. Same usage really..Games, Apps, Internet, Notes, Music...not much else. (u know, normal usage for smartphones despite how capable they REALLY are)

And the 4S I've played around with and was thus amazed by Siri.

Did you set up the iPhone with your personal information so you could make and receive phone calls, texts, emails, chats, video chats, etc.?

Quote:
How many things did you buy from the app store or the music store?

Few games for the iPad.

Quote:
Did you use AirPrint? AirPlay?

Nah but those are fantastic features.

Quote:
Did you use Siri? Long enough for Siri to recognize your voice and contacts, relationships, nicknames?

Again, never owned an iPhone (and my iPad has an old OS still) but I will always be impressed by Siri, I don't need to be sold on it as I am already sold on it. Voice Actions on my Android are ridiculous....but being that I have a speech impediment speaking to my phone isn't really something I care to concentrate on so I can be understood, I do that enough with actual human interaction)

Quote:
Did you ever try iTunes match -- where all your music purchases and your entire music collection is available instantly? (14,000 plus songs for our household)

I own 24 songs. I don't care about this feature.

Quote:
How many apps did you run? Which ones?

Really? Over the course of 4 years I've run many many many apps...most forgotten. The ones that I use often are Facebook, Yelp, Angry Birds, etc. I mostly use my iPad for emails and web browsing...games and videos sometimes.

Quote:
Did you use it through a full discharge/recharge cycle to assess its usability?

Not writing a review...this doesn't matter to me.

Quote:
Did you use it through an OS update cycle?

Before and after, but never during.

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How many manufacturer-installed apps did you find that you would like to remove?

Cute...Zero.

Quote:
How long did you have to wait for the latest OS release to be available that was applicable to your model iPhone.
How long did the OS install take?
How many times did you need to back-install a prior OS release?
Did you JailBreak the iPhone so it was as flexible as your rooted Android phone?
How many JailBreak apps did you install?
How many apps did you write and install?
Unless you've done most of the things -- you've not really used an iPhone.

Never owned my own iPhone...I figured that was quite clear.

Quote:
"Let me borrow a jacket"... is not the same as "Walk a mile in my shoes"!


Yea but "Hey can I borrow your car to go a block to pick something up." Is not the same as "Hey we have to drive across country so I'll drive your car half way."

You can get a decent feel for the car there, pros and cons, and little nuances without actually owning the car and tuning it up and adding a spoiler kit to it or changing the tire.
post #32 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

This is absolute nonsense.

Look at the figures. The overwhelming majority of iPhone users stick with iPhones. IIRC, the percentage who leave the iPhone to switch to Android is in the single digits.

So if less than 10% of iPhone users switch to Android and Android phones outsell iPhones by a significant margins, how does that work out? Obviously, the majority if Android users are NOT coming from iPhones.

Furthermore, it doesn't take to long to realize that a large fraction of Android fans (certainly on sites like this) absolutely refuse to have anything to do with Apple products for 'religious' reasons.

Sure, they may have seen their neighbor's cousin's sister-in-law's iPhone for 10 seconds and think that makes them an expert, but in reality, most of them have not.

Is the iPhone now the only device that runs iOS?
post #33 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Instead of asking a bunch of questions, why don't you specify the exact time needed for a person to form an educated opinion about a device. Something in the lines of "received 100 calls on iPhone", "installed 20 apps on iPad", "set up 10 calendar appointments through Siri".

That way, we can all be on the same page.

Yea that would be nice.

According to his questionnaire I'd have had to own the device for 2 years 5 months 1.3 weeks 10 days 4 hours 3 minutes and 29 seconds in order to have a solid opinion on whether or not I like the iPhone -_-
post #34 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

You just answered your own question. For $500, people expect significantly more. Just look at all Android tablets that flopped when introduced at around $600...

You mean all those Android-based tablets that were deemed "Great for a first try", "An iPad killer", "The first fully functional tablet" yet costing more than the iPad? Yeah, that worked out so well for them. Why don't Apple products get these passes?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #35 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

The customer reviews on Amazon are overwhelmingly positive, with a clear majority giving the Kindle Fire 5 stars. The most valued critical review still gives it 3 out of 5 stars. It seems that Amazon did it right, despite the modest HW specs.

http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Color-M...owViewpoints=1

Customer reviews have become a way of marketing. I am always quite sceptical of customer reviews as I believe mostly users with a gripe bother writing. Whenever there is a long structured customer review I assume it is paid for. There are sites where you put it related jobs to tender and many of those are customer review, or blog comment related.
post #36 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You men all those Android-based tablets that were deemed "Great for a first try", "An iPad killer", "The first fully functional tablet". Yeah, that worked out so well for them.

It didn't. But none of them cost $200, either.
post #37 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

Instead of asking a bunch of questions, why don't you specify the exact time needed for a person to form an educated opinion about a device. Something in the lines of "received 100 calls on iPhone", "installed 20 apps on iPad", "set up 10 calendar appointments through Siri".

That way, we can all be on the same page.

I don't think the numbers are as important as the activities embodied by the questions...

Obviously, my point was to demonstrate that playing with a smart phone at a demo counter, or borrowing a friends smart phone to make a call or play a game -- is quite different than buying a phone, installing "yourself" on the device and making it your own over a period of time.

I've used (driven) A Roll-Royce, Aston-Martin, Austin-Healey, several Jaguars, several Mercedes-Benz... but I never owned any of them.

They were nice, but I don't feel qualified to evaluate (praise or berate) them -- I just don't have the standing... the experience.

However, I did own an MG TD 1953. I am fully qualified to explain:
-- how much fun it is to spend 10 minutes putting the top up during a rainstorm
-- setting the tappet adjustments over and over and over until they are just right
-- setting the carburetors by sound, listening through a vacuum cleaner hose
-- the satisfying feeling when you got a hand wave from another poor soul driving an early sports car

I haven't used an Android phone -- there is nothing there that interests me.

But I don't go to to Android-centric forums and try to convince them that my decision, an iPhone/iPad, is better than theirs.

"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
post #38 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

However, I did own an MG TD 1953. I am fully qualified to explain:
-- how much fun it is to spend 10 minutes putting the top up during a rainstorm
-- setting the tappet adjustments over and over and over until they are just right
-- setting the carburetors by sound, listening through a vacuum cleaner hose
-- the satisfying feeling when you got a hand wave from another poor soul driving an early sports car

Off topic - but NICE! (did you ever use a screwdriver as a stethoscope? good way to find out which tappet is out)
post #39 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by redbarchetta View Post

Saying the Kindle Fire contributes to Android fragmentation is like saying OSX is fragmenting Unix.

I hope that the management team doesn't believe their marketing speak. Apple should be very concerned. The reality is that it doesn't matter what OS Fire runs, it is the marketing ability of the company behind it that matters.
post #40 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Again, never owned an iPhone (and my iPad has an old OS still) but I will always be impressed by Siri, I don't need to be sold on it as I am already sold on it. Voice Actions on my Android are ridiculous....but being that I have a speech impediment speaking to my phone isn't really something I care to concentrate on so I can be understood, I do that enough with actual human interaction)

Serious question here:

My 13-year-old grandson had an undetected hearing defect when he was young (a blockage that was corrected by inserting tubes in both ears).

Because of this he couldn't properly hear others speak.

He is OK now, but tends to speak in a rapid monotone, running the words together, with no emphasis or pauses.

When he's excited, you can barely understand him. His friends make fun of him!

The speech therapists say they've done all they can...

When we group read, aloud, we make him speak slowly, pause, emphasize... tell us a story. This works very well... but it hasn't become a habit.

When I got the iPhone 4S he was all over Siri...

Hmm... I wonder if Siri could be used for voice therapy...
-- it forces you to enunciate
-- it recognizes pauses and context
-- it reinforces what you say by repeating it
-- it is useful
-- it is always available
-- it is habit forming
-- it appears to be almost human

I am hoping that Apple makes Siri available on non-phone iDevices, then opens up the APIs to 3rd-party programmers.

I'd love to write a customizable drill-and-practice Siri speech app for my grandson.

We are considering buying him an iPhone 4S (contract or unlocked) for Christmas.

This will be of some use -- but not as far-reaching as ifthe Siri APIs were available.

As someone with a speech impediment and who is familiar with Siri -- would you mind giving me your opinions on this?
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
Reply
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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