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HP takes aim at Apple's MacBook Air with new $900 Folio13 Ultrabook - Page 3

post #81 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post

"Its design is less than 18 millimeters thin"

Please, lets not let marketing speak pervade our language here. It's less than 18 millimeters *thick*.

+1

This is the first thing in the article that got me going. I'll wager the writer is < 30 and thinks this usage is normal.
post #82 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

You'll be getting USB 3 next year when Ivy Bridge adds USB 3 support to the motherboards. Apple won't be updating them w/that beforehand. How is HDMI more flexible than Thunderbolt? HDMI is for one thing and one thing only, displays. Bonus points for transmitting sound as well. Thunderbolt does everything both USB 3 and HDMI can do and, with adapters, can handle Firewire, Ethernet, Fibre, etc. USB can't handle any of those.

Didn't say HDMI is more flexible than Thunderbolt. It is just more useful. Every display made in the last 5 years has an HDMI port, where as there is currently 1 dedicated display that has Thunderbolt. If you want to hook your Macbook Air up to a screen (a pretty common pur, which is a more useful port?

Same for USB 3.0. I have 2 external drives with USB 3.0 - they are widely available at the same price as USB 2.0 drives (1TB for ~$75). Cheapest Thunderbolt drive is 4 times as much. Anyone buying an external drive in the last 6 months will have USB 3.0 as a default.

Also adding an adapter to a port defeats the purpose of the flexibility IMO.
post #83 of 105
So was this what HP decided to purchase Palm for... to gain access to a model name?

[R.I.P., Palm Foleo]

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Quality isn't expensive... it's priceless.

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post #84 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

[Snip]
...as the resellers get next to no margin on the Macs.
[Snip]

I happen to know in my case exactly what the margin on a Mini was. This was from a small local shop in Portugal that doesn't really sell Macs, so it had to be ordered, and embarrassingly for them they quoted me their price! They paid Apple 669 and after a bit of teasing on my part (they're nice people ) I paid the book price of 749. So 80 for making an online order and handing it over to me seems a reasonable enough margin!
Believe nothing, no matter where you heard it, not even if I have said it, if it does not agree with your own reason and your own common sense.
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Believe nothing, no matter where you heard it, not even if I have said it, if it does not agree with your own reason and your own common sense.
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post #85 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd_in_sb View Post

Didn't Palm trademark the name "Folio?"

If they did, they were ignored by Toshiba, whose Folio was a short-selling tablet from last year.
post #86 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

So? Companies are not allowed to try and penetrate this market? Maybe the $2500 Mac spec to spec is no better than the $999 PC? At $999, the PC is not considered premium yet can compete, spec to spec with the Mac. So who is the fool? The buyer who paid twice as much for his Mac than I did for my PC? This HP is $999 which means it is not considered Premium yet will compete directly with the $1500 Air, which is considered premium.

please show me a 999 windows cloner laptop with the same or better specs than a 2500 mac laptop. Straw man is straw man. Repeat after me...there is no Windows cloner premium market, Apple owns the premium market.
post #87 of 105
So, basically ... I can buy this generically mediocre "ultra portable" notebook from HP for $900, or ... I can spend another $100 and get a premium made 11" MacBook Air.

Hmmm ... tough call. I think I'm going to have to go with the MacBook Air ... every time.

That's like GM rebranding a new Geo Metro at $32,000 ... when for a mere couple thousand dollars more I can just buy a brand new Mercedes-Benz or BMW.
post #88 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

No, it doesn't. But Windows 7 is just as competent. OS X is much prettier though.

Actually, in my experience, it's just the reverse. Windows 7 is pretty (at least superficially) with it's translucent/clear window edges, which are pretty cool until you try to figure out at a glance which window is active, or try to read the black text on the top bar.

In terms of usability, though, I gotta say, Windows sucks. My new job has required me to use it more intensively than ever before, and I've found it _surprisingly bad_ in all kinds of ways, big and small.

Yes, there are programs that will only run under Windows, but those are even worse. Half-assed, incomplete, thown-together, Visual-Basic/just-barely-usable human-interface disasters. They still sell, unfortunately, because that's frankly the standard in the Windows technical software world.
post #89 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by blursd View Post

So, basically ... I can buy this generically mediocre "ultra portable" notebook from HP for $900, or ... I can spend another $100 and get a premium made 11" MacBook Air.

Hmmm ... tough call. I think I'm going to have to go with the MacBook Air ... every time.

That's like GM rebranding a new Geo Metro at $32,000 ... when for a mere couple thousand dollars more I can just buy a brand new Mercedes-Benz or BMW.

Unfortunately many many of us are stuck with using Windows software, either because of corporate standards or specialized software, so this could sell really well.
post #90 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

obvious troll is obvious...Apple controls over 90% of the over $1000 computer market yet only represents around 9% of the total market. You do the math....DUH!

None of that has anything to do with the point being made.
post #91 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

It does have 3D Studio Max though, which is a nice advantage. Max 2012 is, in my experience, significantly nicer than Maya 2012.

Why is that? Both have annoying quirks, but I'm wondering why you find one significantly better. I'd like to hear about it if you do read this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by airnerd View Post

I owned an HP laptop once. ONCE. Was the biggest piece of garbage ever. Loud (yes, a laptop that is loud), heavy, slow even when just released, and so loaded with bloatware it took me forever to get it all removed and it wasn't easy. I'm no tech savant, but I can get around a computer.

HP will need a LOT of glowing reviews before I stroll back to their products.

I've seen a lot of their stuff break too. Many of the PC oems do a decent job on their top models, which carry a much higher markup and a terrible job on higher volume systems. The PC oems overall don't really have a brand that currently stands out from the rest in a good way. HP is never going to beat Dell in the price war. They would be better off simply trying to define themselves by better products, and that should include trying to give their products a look that does not resemble Apple products. Otherwise it just sets up a weird image for them. Given Intel's goals on wattage reduction, this is actually a smart move for HP. They're bringing something that looks fully usable to market below $1000.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

On the other hand, at least they didn't just slavishly duplicate the "aluminum wedge" styling of the MacBook Air, unlike some manufacturers (Asus), down to the keyboard layout. It looks like all of the other plastic bodied HP laptops clogging Best Buy at the $499 level. That makes it's $900 price tag all the less of a great value: buyers won't see this as "MacBook Air competitor", but more "get less HP laptop for more money." IOW, the $499 HP is a much better value.

You know... HP has enough brand recognition that if their board would permit it, they could do something interesting on the PC end. I don't see why they would want to compete with Dell for who can be the cheapest. They do a lot of corporate sales, so if those customers are looking for ultrabooks that run Windows, they could have an opportunity here. Step one would be not filling them with bloatware especially given that these run on lighter hardware.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blursd View Post

So, basically ... I can buy this generically mediocre "ultra portable" notebook from HP for $900, or ... I can spend another $100 and get a premium made 11" MacBook Air.

This is a really bad comparison, and you are just very biased. First I'm always reading complaints about Windows on a macbook air whenever someone tries to go that route. That aside why would you compare an 11" to a 13"? That 11" starter is in many cases too low on specs to be usable as a primary computer. This is a fully functional Windows PC and unlike the others they brought out a usable size under $1000. 11" display versus 13" makes for a noticeable difference. These will probably sell extremely well to HP's corporate clients.
post #92 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proximityeffect View Post

128GB? Will it have iCloud to store my music and everything else?

iCloud Control Panel for Windows
http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1455
post #93 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

It does have 3D Studio Max though, which is a nice advantage. Max 2012 is, in my experience, significantly nicer than Maya 2012.

You plan on working on 3D Studio Max on an ultrabook??
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post #94 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonamac View Post

It takes genuine talent to make a laptop that looks this forgettable.

Why on earth can't these massive companies employ a decent designer with some actual vision? Why do people put up with such epically bad aesthetics from PCs when they don't from anything else, even vacuum cleaners and irons!

Out of all these Ultrabooks I don't think anything looks quite as good as the Lenovo U Series, and that includes the MBA.

After seeing how good the Lenovo looks, and with all of these MBA cloners coming out, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple redesigned their entire MBA and MBP lines.

I'm thinking an Air that looks something like a MBP but only 0.3" thick would hit the mark.
post #95 of 105
Why do I hear creaking noises when I look at the picture of the HP.
post #96 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

So contrary to all evidence, you are saying there exists a premium market in the Microsoft clone world? Care to show us this new evidence of such a thing? DUH?

So poorly written articles and anecdotes mean that premium automatically equates to Apple. They have managed to pull off that image over the past decade, but it's not always the best solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

You plan on working on 3D Studio Max on an ultrabook??

That does sound like he is asking for awful lag. Maya always seemed to be the one with the lighter hardware requirements (not that I'd suggest an ultrabook there either but it could probably do lighter work).

Quote:
Originally Posted by djmikeo View Post

Why do I hear creaking noises when I look at the picture of the HP.

Apple laptops creaked too. It basically went away with the unibody design.
post #97 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


I'm thinking an Air that looks something like a MBP but only 0.3" thin would hit the mark.

There I fixed that for you... I'm sure you meant to say 0.3" thin
post #98 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'd love to see a detailed breakdown, even an infograph, of how these various ultra books stack up against each other and to the MBAs. Having separate articles doesn't really offer a good comparison for consumers.

The only open minded poster in this thread. I honestly don't know why AI does this sort of thing.
post #99 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proximityeffect View Post

128GB? Will it have iCloud to store my music and everything else?

Nope. It will have Microsoft Skydrive, though.
post #100 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Looks sweet!

HP should make an 11 inch version as well.

I'm looking forward this one.

They managed to squeeze backlit keyboard and 128GB SSD in reasonably priced package. Case is (said to be) fully metal, and if it is made like some of HP's business netbooks I have seen, it will be more than robust enough.

The only question that remains is quality of the screen, though. Looking at previous HP love with cheap screens, I'm not holding my breath - but one can only hope. With decent screen, this would be perfect ultra-portable for me.
post #101 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I hope the trackpad works well. The HP Envy had promise but when the reviewers stated you had to use an external mouse to get anything done it kind of ruins the concept of a $2000+ notebook.

I believe, though, that was issue with first generation Envies. Pretty sure I've read somewhere HP sorted that along the way.

In fact, I think major problem with Envy line nowadays is that quality IPS panels are not available for every model. (unless they have changed that recently as well, but last thing I recall was HP complaining how difficult it is to source good quality panels, especially 17")
post #102 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by webfrasse View Post

They still don't get it....

And what would that be?

How to move remaining 5% of computer users from Mac to PC

or

How to make expensive product that will be able to compete against hundreds of much cheaper units with same specs?
post #103 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacBook Pro View Post

For years, Microsoft proponents have been telling Apple proponents that we pay far too much for Mac OS X on the same hardware as Microsoft OEM hardware.

I believe much like the iPad market (referred to as the "tablet market" by many) that there isn't a significant "ultraportable market" outside Apple MacBook Air.

I believe the Apple "ultraportable" (MacBook Air) market is strong for the following reasons:

Mac OS X (Aqua ui, accessibility, layered frameworks architecture, reliability, security, technology innovation (Bluetooth 4.0, Thunderbolt as recent examples)

Best in Class Customer Service

iLife (GarageBand, iMovie, iPhoto, Mac App Store)

iCloud (iTunes in the Cloud, PhotoStream, Documents in the Cloud, Apps, Books and Backup, Calendar, Mail and Conacts, Find my Friends and Find my iPhone)

iTunes integration (market-leading ecosystem for apps, books, music, movies, podcasts, TV shows which allow me to use many of these products and services on (m)any Apple device(s)


In other words, as far as I can discern, Apple is the only vendor whose primary focus is the user experience. Microsoft OEMs are far too busy differentiating themselves with hardware specifications because they don't understand the user experience. Amazon provides a comparable experience to iTunes and (some of) iCloud via Amazon Cloud but doesn't provide mail, calendars or contacts (AFAIK). Google provides a cloud for Google Apps (Gmail, Google Groups, Google Calendar, Talk, Docs and Sites) but lacks iTunes media content.

iTunes media content provides an immediate, manifest justification for Apple products and services while iCloud extends the products and services across the entire Apple product line. Unless other vendors understand these principles behind the success of Apple's premium products and services as well as the advantages of Apple Stores providing local services and support they won't succeed.

You DO get Hotmail with SkyDrive's 25GB online storage for free...
post #104 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

Wow, slow much? No one is doubting that Apple dominates the premium PC market, that's not what you said, you said, "is there a premium market for MS Clones"? If Apple is dominating a market then obviously they are not in it alone.

Oh and just because Apple charges $1000 or more dollars for a PC does not mean it is more premium over the $700 windows PC, Spec to spec. Maybe Windows buyers understand this and are smart shoppers.

I'm finding that NPD's statement a bit... vague.

First of, it seems to be 2 years old.

Second of, quick googling around didn't reveal if that covers:

US or world wide?
Retail only, on-line purchases, CTO builds, enthusiast component purchases?
Laptops or laptops and desktops?
post #105 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oflife View Post

The build quality, perceived weight and industrial design of the MBA blow this thing out of the water, not to mention the whole OS X experience.

No wonder non Apple vendors are failing to dent MBA sales.

Just today, I was in an Apple dealer here in grey and increasingly cold England, and a guy came in to switch from Windows to Mac, and bought a 13" MBA with 256MB of slick SSD. Way to go!

Except that OS experience with Windows machine is major plus for big number of Windows users. I know it is hard to swallow, but it is true.

MBA sales are 1/3 of Apple computer sales, which are 5% worldwide. So MBA sales are around 1.7% of worldwide computer sales.

I don't really think is it undentable number. In fact, I'd say it is much more accurate to say MBA sales are failing to dent netbook sales.
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