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Major PC makers plan to concede tablet market to Apple, Amazon in 2012 - Page 4

post #121 of 134
11/19/11 at 10:21am
I doubt this article is accurate. Once Windows 8 is released, PC tablets will have a fighting chance.

And don't bother with the negative reply unless you've actually tried Windows 8. From what I've seen and personally used, the UX is better than iOS.
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post #122 of 134
11/19/11 at 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

I doubt this article is accurate. Once Windows 8 is released, PC tablets will have a fighting chance.

And don't bother with the negative reply unless you've actually tried Windows 8. From what I've seen and personally used, the UX is better than iOS.

Where have you tried Windows 8 with the Metro UI running on ARM?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #123 of 134
11/19/11 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

Simple, do as Amazon does, tightly control the content same as iTunes. You put actual safeguards in place and tight App control for your market place, malware will be non-existent. The Fire is an Android product but only has access to the Amazon market. Now if someone roots it, that is on them.

But if Google tightens control of content, Android won't be "open" any longer. Already, I have my own doubts about whether or not Android is "open."
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post #124 of 134
11/19/11 at 10:44am
Is Michael Dell going to shut up shop and give the shareholders' money back then?

To illustrate how well iPod is doing, in South Africa, where Apple's general performance is pathetic, iPads are popping up all over the place. Shortly after I bought my house, the agent turned up with an iPad. One of the major banks packages iPads with one of their account options (aimed at promoting online transacting), and as I was typing this, an ad on the radio included an iPad prize for something. By contrast, people think I'm odd for using a Mac, and even iPhones have low penetration.

There simply isn't a market for tablet PCs. There is a market for iPads, and it's growing. Android is the only other game and so far it's mainly on phones. Kindle Fire is unattractive in countries without ubiquitous WiFi.

Apple blind-sided Microsoft by building a new platform out of a music player. If anyone else is going to do this, they need to find a way to sell a commodity that runs on a new platform that will achieve high volume, then morph it into a more general platform. This is not trivial: Apple's second major step, adding a phone onto iPod, could easily have flopped.

Philip Machanick creator of Opinionations and Green Grahamstown
Department of Computer Science, Rhodes University, South Africa

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Philip Machanick creator of Opinionations and Green Grahamstown
Department of Computer Science, Rhodes University, South Africa

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post #125 of 134
11/19/11 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by philipm View Post

...
There simply isn't a market for tablet PCs. There is a market for iPads, and it's growing...

It's one and the same market though (unless with tablet PCs you mean Windows based ones, which is partially true).
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post #126 of 134
11/20/11 at 3:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

I'm curious how you know that. It seems rather far fetched to me to claim that nobody can make any money. What facts do you have to support such an outlandish claim?

For example, this.

Apple makes more money in smartphones, because their two models sell in large quantities, and they can use economies of scale. Samsung and HTC and the others sell a lot more models, each with far fewer sales, but they are bound by Apple's prices - the market won't bear significantly higher prices, hence low profits, even though taken together they sell more phones than Apple.

With tablets, Apple's domination is even more pronounced, accounting for most of the tablets. Apple is pricing the iPads aggressively - that screen isn't cheap. This leads me to the conclusion that Samsung is not making very much money on the Galaxy Tab.
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post #127 of 134
11/20/11 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

I doubt this article is accurate. Once Windows 8 is released, PC tablets will have a fighting chance.

And don't bother with the negative reply unless you've actually tried Windows 8. From what I've seen and personally used, the UX is better than iOS.

Oh you mean Windows 8 which won't run any legacy software while you are running an ARM processor. People who dream of having a tablet to take w/them for random gaming will be disappointed if they were expecting things like WoW to run. Does MS have a demo of an ARM based version of Office yet? They shut down the Courier project partly b/c it was not integrating w/their existing software like Outlook and Office. They are using the Windows name b/c of the branding cache it has, but they should really come up w/a new name for their tablet OS if it will be a complete fresh start.
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post #128 of 134
11/20/11 at 5:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

Oh you mean Windows 8 which won't run any legacy software while you are running an ARM processor.

Why is that a problem?

You buy an ARM tablet and you get new Windows. All your new Windows apps will run across tablet/desktop/notebook.

You buy an x86 tablet (which will have a battery+cost trade off) and again you get new Windows, plus you get legacy Windows as well.

It's only going to be an issue if Microsoft totally stuff up the advertising campaign.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

They are using the Windows name b/c of the branding cache it has, but they should really come up w/a new name for their tablet OS if it will be a complete fresh start.

Think about it this way. The "Metro" apps (which run on ARM/x86 + tablet/desktop/notebook) and the "Metro UI" IS Windows and the old Windows (Win95 - Win7) is like legacy support.
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post #129 of 134
11/21/11 at 7:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Why is that a problem?

You buy an ARM tablet and you get new Windows. All your new Windows apps will run across tablet/desktop/notebook.

You buy an x86 tablet (which will have a battery+cost trade off) and again you get new Windows, plus you get legacy Windows as well.

It's only going to be an issue if Microsoft totally stuff up the advertising campaign.

Think about it this way. The "Metro" apps (which run on ARM/x86 + tablet/desktop/notebook) and the "Metro UI" IS Windows and the old Windows (Win95 - Win7) is like legacy support.

Yes but this is Microsoft who is very concerned about legacy support, unlike Apple. What incentive will businesses have to incorporate the ARM based Windows 8 tablets over iPads if they can't support their legacy software? x86 tablets never took off for a reason, they're much bulkier and have awful battery life, not to mention that prior to 8 the OS was not designed for it at all. All that legacy software isn't exactly great w/touch either, but some may interact well.

There is an app for the iPad that lets you control your desktop and it has been specialized for gaming latency and games like World of Warcraft apparently work very nicely w/the touch screen. Not everything works that well tho as it's expecting mouse clicks and things aren't sized for fingers.
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post #130 of 134
11/22/11 at 4:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

What incentive will businesses have to incorporate the ARM based Windows 8 tablets over iPads if they can't support their legacy software?

Integration into existing Windows management environment. e.g. accounts, access controls, security, group policies etc etc will all fit in with the existing Windows environment.

They will also run the same new Windows applications as desktop/notebook.

You'll see cases with stuff like Office 365 and Windows Intune allowing users to work in office or remotely across mobile/tablet/laptop/desktop whilst security policies and application management on all an employee's devices are controlled centrally by I.T staff through the cloud.
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post #131 of 134
11/28/11 at 6:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

Yes but this is Microsoft who is very concerned about legacy support, unlike Apple. What incentive will businesses have to incorporate the ARM based Windows 8 tablets over iPads if they can't support their legacy software? x86 tablets never took off for a reason, they're much bulkier and have awful battery life, not to mention that prior to 8 the OS was not designed for it at all. All that legacy software isn't exactly great w/touch either, but some may interact well.

x86 tablets no longer have awful battery life. E.g. Samsung's new ones apparently equal or best the Air on that front, which equals perfectly usable.

Legacy apps won't work well with touch, but they'll work in a pinch, and more importantly will work great once you reach the desktop and dock the tablet.

The one thing my Air doesn't do well is to be usable while mobile. Being able to go to "tablet mode" to read stuff in cramped quarters, then return to "laptop mode" when I have a spacious environment would be perfect. When it comes time to upgrade I'm going to seriously consider a Transformer Prime or equivalent tablet.
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post #132 of 134
11/28/11 at 12:48pm
Question, does this mean that Windows 8 tablets already have more apps than the iPad? If the Windows 8 can run legacy software, then the only thing is that it need to be made into tablet form, right?

But technically, I could run Crysis on my tablet...right?
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post #133 of 134
11/28/11 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gon View Post

When it comes time to upgrade I'm going to seriously consider a Transformer Prime or equivalent tablet.

Given the relative strengths of the productivity and creative software offerings you're probably better off with an iPad and a keyboard case. The logitech and zagg cases seem to be getting better and better.

Still, I'd love to have an iPad/MBA transformer like device. Ideally with both X86 and ARM CPUs (x86 on the keyboard part, ARM on the screen part obviously)...probably too rube goldbergish for apple
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post #134 of 134
11/28/11 at 10:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Given the relative strengths of the productivity and creative software offerings you're probably better off with an iPad and a keyboard case. The logitech and zagg cases seem to be getting better and better.

Those only work decently on a desk, no? I use the Air a lot while seated in a car or train; it's just that when things get a little more cramped or I'm reading vertical pages, a tablet would be optimal.

And I really don't want to pay for an iOS device as long as Apple dictates what apps I may run on it. OS X with an optional tablet interface (with its specialized apps) would be optimal.
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Still, I'd love to have an iPad/MBA transformer like device. Ideally with both X86 and ARM CPUs (x86 on the keyboard part, ARM on the screen part obviously)...probably too rube goldbergish for apple

That would be kinda pointless I think. There are good enough mixes of performance in existing processors - either a super low power x86 processor from Intel or a Tegra 3 -type ARM design would be fine. The latter would naturally require that Apple added ARM to its universal binaries.
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