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Amazon's new Kindle Fire tablet: an in depth review - Page 3

post #81 of 157
11/20/11 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Why didn't they call the iPad an iPod Touch? You can't put everything into the same product category for shits and giggles and expect it to succeed. The 5-7" 3:2 device is much closer to the iPod category than the iPad. It would help prop up the iPod's dropping sales and be seen as a great alternative to whatever Sony and Nintendo plan to make in the handheld console market. It would fit in a purse, something an iPad can't do not should be able to do. Bottom line: you add a flagship device to a struggling product category instead of adding an entry level model to a thriving product category.

yes it was iPod size. but otherwise it was pure marketing. tablets were still iffy, not good for an ID. Apple saw the end of the iPod era coming and knew it needed to segue those customers to iOS. very smart. wish they had capitalized the T tho.
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post #82 of 157
11/20/11 at 3:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

So what would be the difference between a 7" iPod touch and a 7" iPad. Honest question.

Essentially only the name. But the name could be used to set expectations, eg, that the UI of a 7" iPod touch would resemble more that of an iPod touch than that of an iPad. On Android and QNX we have seen both, ie, the 2.x-base 7" tablets had a UI that was essentially just a blown up phone UI. The Playbook and now the Fire are more like a scaled down iPad UI.
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post #83 of 157
11/20/11 at 3:30pm
The 1 gen Touch lacked a speaker not a mic. Come on AppleInsider get it right instead of just cleverly bashing the Fire.
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post #84 of 157
11/20/11 at 3:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

Essentially only the name. But the name could be used to set expectations, eg, that the UI of a 7" iPod touch would resemble more that of an iPod touch than that of an iPad. On Android and QNX we have seen both, ie, the 2.x-base 7" tablets had a UI that was essentially just a blown up phone UI. The Playbook and now the Fire are more like a scaled down iPad UI.

Except they can access the entire www whereas an iPad surely can't.
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post #85 of 157
11/20/11 at 4:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

video playback and games are its strongest features but are still only good, certainly not excellent

Amazon appears to be betting that there just might be a market for a device which is good for video and games, is less than half the price of the iPad, and has a larger screen than the iPod touch.
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post #86 of 157
11/20/11 at 4:03pm

If Apple were going to release a 7" iDevice they would have already done it!

If the iPad 1 had been a 7" device the same form factor as the Galaxy Tab, PlayBook at a $500 price it would not have been as successful nor would it been able to usher in the post-pc era and devastate the netbook market.

Everyone knew that Apple was going to introduce a Tablet for $1,000.

Most expected it would run OS X and be a MacBook without a keyboard.

Most expected that the usual suspects (Dell, HP, ASUS...) would follow almost immediately with cheaper models, say, $799 running Windows.

But Apple fooled them all and changed the way we interface a computer -- at a price, quality, capability level that nobody could match for going on 2 years.


The iPad defined what a Tablet [computer] is!

Like making a first impression, you only get one chance to do that.


Now, almost 2 years later we have some 7" Tablet/jrs, NetTablets, Tablet/castrati (whatever) trying to fill the void between a $200 iPod Touch and a $500 iPad.

The fact is that there is no money [profit] to be made in the 7" market -- whatever you call the device.

"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #87 of 157
11/20/11 at 4:18pm
The Fire is a clear example of the key difference between Jeff Bezos and Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs was a great businessman AND transcendent visionary. Jeff Bezos is just a businessman.
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post #88 of 157
11/20/11 at 4:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Everything down to the packaging looks cheap.

OTOH, if Amazon had really nice-looking packaging (say, like the Samsung Galaxy 10.1) we'd probably be hearing about how Amazing is copying Apple in that regard, too.

I, for one, applaud the cheap packaging. It's a mail-order item. Who cares what the packing looks like as long as it protects the device before you get it (which is its main purpose, as this thing probably isn't ever going to sit on a display shelf somewhere).

They probably saved some money on the packaging, too. Better to get the end price down for the user.
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post #89 of 157
11/20/11 at 4:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyde View Post

They probably saved some money on the packaging, too. Better to get the end price down for the user.

It's also good if the product meets the buyer's expectations. If you purchase a cheap tablet, you expect to receive a cheap tablet.
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post #90 of 157
11/20/11 at 4:46pm
[QUOTE=lkrupp;1991766]
Quote:
Originally Posted by emulator View Post

yeah, ded again

Well, he gets to write articles and reviews for AppleInsider and you don't. Why don't you get a job at a tech web site or start your own instead. I can't get my head around why so many Apple haters are regulars at an Apple centric web site like AI. I would be bored to tears trying to be a regular at a PC or Android site.

On the other hand AI doesn't hold a candle to MacRumors when it comes to Apple hating regulars.

I spend time here because I like to stay updated on Apple news and rumors. As a shareholder, its a prudent thing to do.

I don't hate Apple, I hate Apple fanboys who are so blinded by their love of the products that they cannot admit the products are even in the least flawed. That is what grates me.

So please keep buying Apple products, I will just keep making money off the stock.

I will show up on MacRumors next. Thanks.
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post #91 of 157
11/20/11 at 5:01pm
It's as painful to read about as I'm sure the user experience sounds like on this device is. This likely will be a waste of money to a heavy mobile device user. Perhaps Amazon will try to do better if they bring out a second generation of this device and/or software update. I believe they can do better, but are by no means our coveted Apple
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post #92 of 157
11/20/11 at 5:03pm
Most reviews of the Fire I read are pretty good, I certainly don't see where the WSJ called it garbage. I've had a Fire now for a few days and haven't had any issues, navigation is snappy and easy, there are plenty of apps and I side loaded a few that were missing. The cloud storage works well and the Amazon store is easy to navigate. One of the sideloaded apps has crashed a couple times, but I have had plenty of apps on my iPod Touch and iPhone lockup, it happens. IOS 5 is certainly not without its issues as my iPod drained overnight and I had to change a number of settings to get it back to a reasonable battery drain - so there are certainly issues. The point of all this is the Kindle Fire is reasonable product at a good price point and fits the need of a decent e-reader that can do other things and at is very portable. This article points out a number of flaws but the hyperbole and blatant bias detracts from review rather than adds any value.
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post #93 of 157
11/20/11 at 5:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm never been able to figure out what that ASCII art is suppose to be.

It's one of those 3D patterns. You have to stare at it long enough to see it.
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #94 of 157
11/20/11 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corrections View Post

It's just that DED has a really high accuracy rate in calling out success and failure in the face of fanboys who supported everything DED didn't.

Really?

This "Dilger" guy claimed Microsoft stole Metro iconography from Apple, that Metro was a "web-based layer" laid over classic Windows 7, that Windows Phone users would be forced to select different app versions in the marketplace based on their OS version and that wrote an entire article about the future product direction of Office based on a quote he miss-attributed to Ballmer.

And that's just the recent Windows stuff.

Go back further and you see this "Dilger" guy proclaiming Google would never take on Apple in the mobile space, then when it became clear they would, continually predicted doom and gloom for Android.

Saying this "Dilger" has a "really high accuracy rate" is far to generous, but "scatter shot accuracy" is probably a little to harsh.

The truth is somewhere in between, and depends on what he is trying to predict. i.e. If your position is "everything Apple is awesome" (like this "Dilger") would lead to a pretty good decade of predictions about Apple products, but also having the position of "everything non-Apple is crap" (again like this "Dilger") would make you look like a fanboy and a simpleton.
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post #95 of 157
11/20/11 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Really?

This "Dilger" guy claimed Microsoft stole Metro iconography from Apple, that Metro was a "web-based layer" laid over classic Windows 7, that Windows Phone users would be forced to select different app versions in the marketplace based on their OS version and that wrote an entire article about the future product direction of Office based on a quote he miss-attributed to Ballmer.

And that's just the recent Windows stuff.

Go back further and you see this "Dilger" guy proclaiming Google would never take on Apple in the mobile space, then when it became clear they would, continually predicted doom and gloom for Android.

Saying this "Dilger" has a "really high accuracy rate" is far to generous, but "scatter shot accuracy" is probably a little to harsh.

The truth is somewhere in between, and depends on what he is trying to predict. i.e. A position is "everything Apple is awesome" (like this "Dilger") would lead to a pretty good decade of predictions about Apple products, but also having the position of "everything non-Apple is crap" (again like this "Dilger") would make you look like a fanboy and a simpleton.

That's a pretty accurate assessment -- though your way of arriving at is interesting, to say the least...
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #96 of 157
11/20/11 at 5:29pm
The fatal error here is assuming the Fire won't be further refined, it will most assuredly be reimagined after they've had it out for a few months.

I do suspect that it will remain a somewhat bland device, and always remain a step or two behind in technology to keep the entry price low.

IMHO, the Fire will help the iPad essentially destroy the tablet market, it will be for the immediate future an iPad and a Fire market. The other tablets will have to remain in a fairly tight price range between the iPad and the Fire, and there's little profit in that range.

The other manufacturers will be forced to add cameras, microphones, faster CPU's and GPS chips to differentiate themselves from the Fire, so they're looking at a $300-$400 BOM's to build a 10" device with a 20% mark up that's further eroded by R&D costs, marketing and retailer's mark up so they can keep the lights on and pay employees.

They're also going to have to contend with using Android to keep costs low, and deal with paying Microsoft to stay out of court, plus avoid the minefield of Apple lawsuits.
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post #97 of 157
11/20/11 at 5:29pm
This device is a toy. It really doesn't have a practical application in the manner an iPad does. We see iPads being used in medical, educational, music, corporate and other venues. This Amazon device is strictly a low level entertainment device. I honestly think the other guy's (I mean every one other than Apple) cannot produce anything without copy right infringement. I think that Apple has really done the research on this iPad and iPhone to where it is almost impossible to make one outside Apple without copyright violation. So we will see these little nibbles like the Kindle Fire and not see the real fish on the hook.
An Apple man since 1977
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An Apple man since 1977
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post #98 of 157
11/20/11 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thesmoth View Post

The iPad is an expensive toy and all I see on these boards are people desperately trying to justify their expensive and unnecessary purchases. You spent a lot of money on a nearly useless toy, accept the fact and deal with it, stop making up pathetic justifications. iPads are really cool, pretty, trendy, well advertised, fun to interface with, have cute games, etc... But that is all they are and all they will be. They are great to have around for those odd occasions where you don't want to use your laptop or you are traveling, etc... but they are worth about $200 in the functions they return.


LOL. You speak from ignorance. You obviously don't get out much.

Want one example? iPads have revolutionized recording studios, specifically where scripts are the order of the session, which is my line of work, day in , day out. We no longer get nor accept printed scripts from clients. Every time a narrator reads a 300 page script they are using our iPad in the booth reading a pdf, either autoscrolling or manually flipping a page at a time. We could never do this before because never before was there such a versatile completely silent tool for $500 that had a zero learning curve. (Disk drives and anything not nearly silent need not apply). When the client would send one script instead of the three we'd request we had to copy two more, and at 300 pages that's a huge PITA and expense. No longer. We use iPads for the scripts for the audio engineers as well, which frees up the Mac monitor for more valuable use.

This is not just us. This is how recording studios do it. Printed scripts are over and it's only thanks to the iPad, not the ASUS EEEpad or the Galaxy or the Xoom. The smoothest, most responsive interface is the only one that gets used. iPads are ALL OVER recording studios in NYC, and no one is wishing they'd get their money back or that they'd bought something else.

Every session I do with ours (which is daily) I'll be thinking of your funny post.
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post #99 of 157
11/20/11 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

That's a pretty accurate assessment -- though your way of arriving at is interesting, to say the least...

Well I'm an interesting kind of guy!
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post #100 of 157
11/20/11 at 5:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

It's also good if the product meets the buyer's expectations. If you purchase a cheap tablet, you expect to receive a cheap tablet.


It's also good if it makes the owner feel it does plenty, and plenty well enough for what they paid for it. Most of the complaints I see about the Fire are like complaining about fish because they can't fly.
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post #101 of 157
11/20/11 at 5:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

lol ded

What else do tou expect him to say? Nothing? You must explain. You have knowledge? He bought one, he tried it. I think he has described his perspective. What's yours? LOL?
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post #102 of 157
11/20/11 at 6:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

The iPad defined what a Tablet [computer] is!

Like making a first impression, you only get one chance to do that.


Now, almost 2 years later we have some 7" Tablet/jrs, NetTablets, Tablet/castrati (whatever) trying to fill the void between a $200 iPod Touch and a $500 iPad.

Here's how I see it.

Apple created the iPad to fill the space between laptops and pocket devices. So these third parties immediately see it like this.



They think that this is the way things are. So what do they do? They try to fill the 'gaps'. Like a low-resolution bitmap image expanded terribly high, they try to interpolate the pixels between the devices by cutting up the line, spreading it apart, and plopping in intermediaries.



And yet, every single one has failed. Always to the detriment of the company and often to the bankruptcy (or near) of that division or the whole kit and caboodle.

They don't get it.

THIS is the reality.



They're bitmap players in a vector world. Or, if you've seen the parallel between this and Apple's marketing, low-DPI players in a Retina world.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #103 of 157
11/20/11 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esoom View Post

The fatal error here is assuming the Fire won't be further refined, it will most assuredly be reimagined after they've had it out for a few months.

Not sure.

Lets say you returned your Fire because you didn't like it, the negative experience that you pass on to your friends is contagious. Far more than if you like a product. It was a hotel manager who told me a few years ago - give someone a good experience they will tell 2 people, give someone a bad experience and they will tell 10.

If the Fire gets off to a bad start, the technical unsavy may not want to risk v2 or v3.

The difference between the Fire and the iPad is that Apple got the iPad right from day 1. Forget all the naysayers about multitasking and cameras and all that jazz, Apple got out an amazingly good product on the first day.

And as much as we write off "well it's only $200", consumers deserve to get a polished product for that. The hardware maybe cheap but there is no excuse in this day and age for a bad user experience from a main brand company like Amazon.

The biggest thing in all of this is the bit that people overlook-

What happens after the purchase?

If someone plays with it for a few days and puts it to one side, they'll never buy another version. They'll think that all tablets are crap, including the iPad.

And what people are overlooking by a mile - is that iPad users for the most part use their purchase all the time, and are telling other people about the good experience. This isn;t about Pro-Apple, it's about Pro-Technology. People want good technology.
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post #104 of 157
11/20/11 at 6:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by popnfresh View Post

In the Rating section the comparison charts are organized to emphasize the things the Fire lacks vis-a-vis the iPad2, while simultaneously glossing over things the iPad2 lacks vis-a-vis the Fire.

For example, in comparing the hardware, they note that the Fire has no GPS, no motion sensor, no cameras, etc. All true. However, they fail to treat the iPad2 equally. In comparing the software included with the two units, it would be just as fair to call out that the iPad2 has no QuickOffice, no included Facebook app, no included comics viewer, no daily free app giveaways and no Flash support. But conveniently, AppleInsider doesn't point a finger at iOS's shortcomings and instead has chosen to slant the comparisons against the Fire. Now, I realize that it goes against the party line to fault Apple for banishing Flash from iOS's Garden of Eden, but the truth is that Flash is still useful and there are still websites that depend on Flash that iOS can't fully access. At least the Fire doesn't arbitrarily prevent you from doing so.

So you find the lack of flash to be an incovenience on your iOS device or the presence of flash to be key on your android device? I use iOS and I don't miss flash. Instead, I feel that sites that don't work properly on my iDevice are behind the current technological times and need to get busy. They are lazy. Arbitrary is asking that all devices support proprietary technology. Not arbitrary is asking that devices support open standards. If the standard is proprietary, something needs needs to change.
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post #105 of 157
11/20/11 at 7:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

That's a great point, and I've often thought about it myself. But then you have to realize that Apple designed a different UI for the iPad and the iPhone. It would make more sense for Apple to release a 7" iPod touch than a 7" iPad.

People keep repeating this and it's simply not true. There is ONE major difference, and that's the split view UI controller that allows a drop down list to appear side-by-side with the content.

Everything else: buttons, sliders, navigation controllers, and so on are the same.
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post #106 of 157
11/20/11 at 7:09pm
A good DED review for sure.

I find it curious though that in the first few paragraphs he raises the spectre of "patent" with swipe to unlock. (I did notice it is in the opposite direction just to be "safe").

And then throughout any interface observations suggests that the Fire is not up to snuff because it doesn't copy the iOS methods. Things such as bounce at end of list, particular transitions etc.

So it comes out to me at least a bit at cross purposes. First a waggling finger followed up by the complaint it does not slavishly copy.

what is a developer to do
you only have freedom in choice when you know you have no choice
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you only have freedom in choice when you know you have no choice
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post #107 of 157
11/20/11 at 7:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman0 View Post

Not sure.

Lets say you returned your Fire because you didn't like it, the negative experience that you pass on to your friends is contagious. Far more than if you like a product. It was a hotel manager who told me a few years ago - give someone a good experience they will tell 2 people, give someone a bad experience and they will tell 10.

If the Fire gets off to a bad start, the technical unsavy may not want to risk v2 or v3.

The difference between the Fire and the iPad is that Apple got the iPad right from day 1. Forget all the naysayers about multitasking and cameras and all that jazz, Apple got out an amazingly good product on the first day.

And as much as we write off "well it's only $200", consumers deserve to get a polished product for that. The hardware maybe cheap but there is no excuse in this day and age for a bad user experience from a main brand company like Amazon.

The biggest thing in all of this is the bit that people overlook-

What happens after the purchase?

If someone plays with it for a few days and puts it to one side, they'll never buy another version. They'll think that all tablets are crap, including the iPad.

And what people are overlooking by a mile - is that iPad users for the most part use their purchase all the time, and are telling other people about the good experience. This isn;t about Pro-Apple, it's about Pro-Technology. People want good technology.

I agree. Unfortunately allot os us are tech savvy. But there are a majority of people who are not tech savvy. It's amazing how may people are ignorant to technology. Their Kids are far more technology savvy than their parents. Parents that listen to their kids and buy the iPad find that their kids are happier. But Kids that expect and iPad and get a Fire are gonna show their parents just how poor the quality is when the fire ends up in a dresser drawer or laying under the coffee table. I honestly believe this device is a toy. Or a color Kindle.
An Apple man since 1977
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An Apple man since 1977
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post #108 of 157
11/20/11 at 7:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thesmoth View Post

The iPad is FAR away from a laptop replacement. It cannot yet really do anything well enough to replace a laptop. Even simple web browsing is faster and more efficient on a laptop, AND You can watch flash videos (actually a big deal). There are a lot of sites I frequent that require flash, so the argument that it isn't a big problem anymore is completely false. The iPad is an expensive toy and all I see on these boards are people desperately trying to justify their expensive and unnecessary purchases. You spent a lot of money on a nearly useless toy, accept the fact and deal with it, stop making up pathetic justifications. iPads are really cool, pretty, trendy, well advertised, fun to interface with, have cute games, etc... But that is all they are and all they will be. They are great to have around for those odd occasions where you don't want to use your laptop or you are traveling, etc... but they are worth about $200 in the functions they return. Slowly the number of useful functions they can perform is increasing, and slowly their prices will drop, and in about 2 years those will balance out and we'll have tablets worth buying. For now you early adopters are beta testers funding development of the real deal.

Waaaaaah the world doesn't work like it should in my imagination. Someone had to make it. It was Apple. Someone decided to go in this directions it was Apple. Everyone else is following. If Apple wasn't successful at selling their idea of a tablet...no one would be making them. Flash is dead in mobile browsing, apparently you didn't get the memo. What do you consider a useful function? Sounds like you have no clue.
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post #109 of 157
11/20/11 at 7:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Here's how I see it.

Apple created the iPad to fill the space between laptops and pocket devices. So these third parties immediately see it like this.



They think that this is the way things are. So what do they do? They try to fill the 'gaps'. Like a low-resolution bitmap image expanded terribly high, they try to interpolate the pixels between the devices by cutting up the line, spreading it apart, and plopping in intermediaries.



And yet, every single one has failed. Always to the detriment of the company and often to the bankruptcy (or near) of that division or the whole kit and caboodle.

They don't get it.

THIS is the reality.



They're bitmap players in a vector world. Or, if you've seen the parallel between this and Apple's marketing, low-DPI players in a Retina world.

Oddly... That says it all!

Normally I wouldn't include the images in my reply...
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #110 of 157
11/20/11 at 7:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cy_starkman View Post

A good DED review for sure.

I find it curious though that in the first few paragraphs he raises the spectre of "patent" with swipe to unlock. (I did notice it is in the opposite direction just to be "safe").

This is a good point. Sinse the swipe to unlock feature was patented, doesn't Amazon have to pay Apple royalties. Just because the Fire swipes from left to right, should make no difference, correct?
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post #111 of 157
11/20/11 at 7:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmlco View Post

People keep repeating this and it's simply not true. There is ONE major difference, and that's the split view UI controller that allows a drop down list to appear side-by-side with the content.

Everything else: buttons, sliders, navigation controllers, and so on are the same.

No... All the controls, kb, etc are diffent size...
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
post #112 of 157
11/20/11 at 8:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post


If Apple were going to release a 7" iDevice they would have already done it!

If the iPad 1 had been a 7" device the same form factor as the Galaxy Tab, PlayBook at a $500 price it would not have been as successful nor would it been able to usher in the post-pc era and devastate the netbook market.

Everyone knew that Apple was going to introduce a Tablet for $1,000.

Most expected it would run OS X and be a MacBook without a keyboard.

Most expected that the usual suspects (Dell, HP, ASUS...) would follow almost immediately with cheaper models, say, $799 running Windows.

But Apple fooled them all and changed the way we interface a computer -- at a price, quality, capability level that nobody could match for going on 2 years.


The iPad defined what a Tablet [computer] is!

Like making a first impression, you only get one chance to do that.


Now, almost 2 years later we have some 7" Tablet/jrs, NetTablets, Tablet/castrati (whatever) trying to fill the void between a $200 iPod Touch and a $500 iPad.

The fact is that there is no money [profit] to be made in the 7" market -- whatever you call the device.


I am not sure. Its all speculation, of course, but the landscape is always changing and what was true last year may not be true today. I am repeating myself in this thread (apologies) but in spite of all the technical and business reasons for Apple NOT to release a 7" and the fact that SJ clearly stated that the present iPad was the ideal size (after much research / testing), and even after we recently have been hearing all about the what lies behind the business decisions central to Apple's success (simplicity, the courage to say no, live by ones vision, etc), I still contend that if the Amazon Fire is a gains traction and continues to sell well, Apple may have little choice but to compete.

With the existing IOS user base and public awareness, as well as the developed backend services and content, why not compete in a rapidly growing market? There would be fragmentation and more complications for developers, but also an opportunity.

I can even see a point where if you own one application for one device and wish to get the same for another there would be a minor charge. Not a deal breaker, but a charge nonetheless.
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post #113 of 157
11/20/11 at 8:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cy_starkman View Post

A good DED review for sure.

I find it curious though that in the first few paragraphs he raises the spectre of "patent" with swipe to unlock. (I did notice it is in the opposite direction just to be "safe").

And then throughout any interface observations suggests that the Fire is not up to snuff because it doesn't copy the iOS methods. Things such as bounce at end of list, particular transitions etc.

So it comes out to me at least a bit at cross purposes. First a waggling finger followed up by the complaint it does not slavishly copy.

what is a developer to do

Well the "swipe to unlock" is something Apple just patented (widely reported recently) just as Google just received a patent for gesture unlock swiping between a grid of numbers. So it's odd Amazon would use the very Apple-borrowed swipe (it also works in a non-smooth way on the Fire).

On the other hand, I don't think the review is demanding that the Fire act exactly like iOS as much as pointing out that it diverges in ways that make it feel slower and cheaper, missing the little touches that Apple filled with specific examples like bounce. On the Fire, it appears to do a grey shadow when you pull down to the end of a list. This is clearly not as well conceived as Apple. Very much like Windows copying the Mac, and introducing changes that just make the copy worse.
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post #114 of 157
11/20/11 at 9:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman0 View Post

Shouldn't worry, it's the usual thing where people can only see a product from their own point of view, and discount that other people have different tastes, uses, abilities, etc. It's a very narrow viewpoint they hold.

If I had an iPad, I wouldn't be taking my laptop to the sofa in the evening, however, MrsTinman's iPad always goes to the sofa after work and rarely her laptop. If we go away, she'll take the iPad rather than her laptop.

If anything, the iPad is making me reconsider whether I need a laptop and couldn't just use an iMac+iPad.

But as I said, everyone is different, and have different uses for things. And not everyone can appreciate that.

That's a lovely idea. But at the same time, every so often something comes along that makes a previous category obsolete. I think this is a clear example of one of those cases. The only difference between the two form factors, once you correct for stuff that's going to become a non-issue over time (like performance), is that one has a keyboard attached to the bottom of the display by a hinge. Do you really think having a keyboard attached by a hinge to the bottom of the display is such a huge convenience that there should be an entire product category to serve the demand for it?

EDIT: I thought you were the guy I was originally arguing with and misread you. Forgive the snarky tone.
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post #115 of 157
11/20/11 at 10:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

No... All the controls, kb, etc are diffent size...

You're serious? For most apps, it doesn't matter. You tell the system you want a list with 23 elements in it. The system tells you to give it your text for item 16. It displays it. The user taps on item 16, and you go to the next screen. Rinse. Repeat.

By and large, it doesn't matter WHAT the size is. The system scales and manages everything for you.

And if you're doing bitmapped graphics or something similar, then you'd better have gotten your port size and scaling information from the system BEFORE you started drawing. Again, done correctly, you have resolution independence.

How the hell do you think the same app runs correctly on a old-school 3GS and a 4/4S with a Retina display?
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post #116 of 157
11/20/11 at 11:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by guch20 View Post

Wow, how uninformed are you? You talk about how the iPad 2 can't replace a laptop, as though your opinion is somehow gospel.

My iPad 2 has replaced my $2000 Windows 7 laptop most of the time. In fact, just about the only thing I use my laptop for is to wirelessly sync my iPad and iPhone.

You really spent $2000 on a Windows laptop?
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post #117 of 157
11/21/11 at 12:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

No... All the controls, kb, etc are diffent size...

They even made unique Home Screen icons of a difference size and spacing instead of just scaling them by pixel sizes to make them bigger.

I can't believe going into 2012 ass hats are still claiming the iPad is just s big iPod Touch. Maybe if they realized they rewrote the UI from the bottom up to be idealized for the display, which is also completely different aspect ratio not just size, they'd realize why Android never had a chance by simply scaling up to fit a larger display.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #118 of 157
11/21/11 at 12:43am
What a great read! And so unbiased.

Next I will go to www.playstationsuperfanboyclub.com and read their unbiased review of the latest legend of zelda game!
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post #119 of 157
11/21/11 at 1:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

What a great read! And so unbiased.

It was a bit too generous. I wouldn't have given it 2.5/5.
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post #120 of 157
11/21/11 at 5:14am
I think people that wishes a 7" tablet for the smaller form factor have not really understood the difference between 3.5"-4" vs 7" vs 10". When it comes to certain computing/reading experiences, the middl of the road 7" sizes just doesn't cut it. I think Apple for it right with it's current two sizes and skipping the 7".

Jobs got it right, let others fight over the less profitable and usable form factor. You need to put all the form factors on a table and start playing with different apps and functionality to realize this. I have iphone, ipad and nook tablet on the table and boy, the immediate choice for me to grab would be ipad and then iphone...nook tablet is actually well done if they didn't lock the bootloader... that said, i think 7" is good for epub reading experience but translates other computing experiences half-ass.
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