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UK's chief rabbi blames Apple for 'egocentric culture' - Page 3

post #81 of 116
Well... I, for one, believe hammers promote self destructivism and are prone to destroy or alter in an unholy way God's creations. Almost every second a human being on Earth hits a finger unintendedly with a hammer. Hammers should be banned and be cast to that hell where they came from.
Et in Arcadia, ego.
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Et in Arcadia, ego.
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post #82 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler82 View Post

I do think that modern day Apple users are insatiable and materialistic to the point of ridiculousness. It makes me when I read users posting that they sold their iPhone 4 so they can upgrade to an iPhone 4S. Seriously? Are you that dissatisfied with your life? I believe that it is the newer bandwagon Apple users that are like this, though. The old school fellas like myself tend to be loyal and stick with our Macs like we do with our underwear- until it is absolutely necessary to upgrade.

Geez, I hope you were being sarcastic. I mean, how dare these Apple users do something that might make themselves happy. Loyalty to an old inanimate product? Really?
post #83 of 116
"The consumer society was laid down by the late Steve Jobs"

This rabbi is a space cadet. Fruit loop. Nutter. It's a shame that he has such a prominent platform to deliver his ridiculous view from.
"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
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"We're Apple. We don't wear suits. We don't even own suits."
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post #84 of 116
In a clarification sent out on Sunday, Chief Rabbi Sacks' office said that "The Chief Rabbi meant no criticism of either Steve Jobs personally or the contribution Apple has made to the development of technology in the 21st century. He admires both and indeed uses an iPhone and an iPad on a daily basis. The Chief Rabbi was simply pointing out the potential dangers of consumerism when taken too far."
post #85 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

You don't pay bills? That usually counts in deciding who is credit worthy. Paying bills is effectively net 30 debt/credit. Like how people should treat credit cards, not as something to carry a balance.

Yep. I pay all my bills. In full. On time. Every time.

I need to own a house (huge debt) or a car (huge debt) or loads of consumer goods (huge debt) to prove that I know how to handle my money it seems. Maintaining a bank account with a positive balance seems to show that I don't know how to handle credit. Who knows how it all works?
post #86 of 116
Like any other person whose job it is to give new presentations or share their opinions on a rigid schedule, they've got to find something to talk about, something that will jerk the listen from a stupor.

So, the guy simply needed something to say, and wanted to wax eloquently, if not ridiculously on some matter.

His 15 minutes of fame.
post #87 of 116
Cue Captain Obvious.

Hello? Capitalism's GOAL is to promote people's irrational desires. You could pick any product that exemplifies this... the iPad is just the obvious target because it's so popular.
post #88 of 116
Whats new? A religious leader blaming innovation, technology and progress for consumerism. Perhaps the rabbi needs to take a look at religion. Perhaps this is something he might understand. He clearly does not understand that technology empowers humanity. Religon is at the heart of most wars the earth has seen. Religion is responsible for more suffering and death than just about any other human construct. But hush because you'll get to go to heaven! Suffer now and you get entail rest later. Oh have you tithed yet... Where is your 10% for the church's coffers - tax freed. What a scam.
post #89 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Lord Sacks, the Chief Rabbi in the U.K., has blamed Apple for creating a consumer society, comparing the iPad touchscreen tablet to a modern-day version of Moses' stone tablets that bore the Ten Commandments.

Sacks made the comments in the presence of the Queen at an interfaith reception last week, reinterpreted the "i" in Apple's popular naming scheme as an indication of an increasingly selfish society, as noted by The Telegraph.

The consumer society was laid down by the late Steve Jobs coming down the mountain with two tablets, iPad one and iPad two, and the result is that we now have a culture of iPod, iPhone, iTune, i, i, i," he said. When youre an individualist, egocentric culture and you only care about 'i, you dont do terribly well.

The rabbi went on to say that the consumer ethic fosters ingratitude because it makes people unhappy with what they have. People should instead spend their time thanking God for things they do have, Sacks said.

"The consumer society is in fact the most efficient mechanism ever devised for the creation and distribution of unhappiness, he added, singling out consumer desire for new iPhone models as an example.

Sacks called on the devout to observe the traditional Jewish day of rest, the Shabbat, in order to avoid the trap of materialism. "Therefore the answer to the consumer society is the world of faith, which the Jews call the world of Shabbat, where you cant shop and you cant spend and you spend your time with things that matter, with family," he said.

At least one of the audience members present at the meeting was an iDevice owner, as reports revealed earlier this year that Queen Elizabeth II was so impressed with her grandsons' iPads that she ordered one for herself. The Queen is said to be a "big fan" of Apple's products and reportedly owns two iPods, including one given to her as a gift by U.S. President Barack Obama in 2009.

For his part, Jobs was considered for knighthood in the U.K. 2009, but the plans were said to have been scrapped because he declined an invitation to speak at a political conference. However, Apple's lead designer and U.K. citizen, Jonathan Ive, has received the title of Commander of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire, one step below knighthood.

Maybe the Rabbi should speak to the issues of the Middle East where perhaps he has some knowledge other then expressing this awkward expression of his ignorance and religious intolerance.
post #90 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

"The consumer society was laid down by the late Steve Jobs"

This rabbi is a space cadet. Fruit loop. Nutter. It's a shame that he has such a prominent platform to deliver his ridiculous view from.

Another example as to why religionists of any stripe need to be banished from human contact.
post #91 of 116
Don't worry Lord Sacks I for one haven't been affected. The only thing I'm looking for from Apple is a mid sized mid range headless Mac to replace my old PowerMac G4. Since I haven't been able to get what I want from Apple I certainly haven't been supporting it by buying all the iDevices that I have no interest in owning.

I am an individual. "Me" not "i".

That said I want to wish this Rabbi Merry Christmas.
post #92 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheff View Post

I suggest rabbi reads on wealth of nations and how caring about your own interest translates into good for all. Than he should study up on communism and how collectivst societies fail. After that he should read somephysics and coding textbooks to see how many people it takes to make an idevice. Finally he should pull his head out of the gutter and see that we are living in the best of times, people are much more tolerant and caring than they have ever been, and apple has recently started an employee confrubution scheme.

I give the same suggestion to muslims and every ofher religious leader complaing about modern society.

Adam Smith had lots to say about progressive taxation and the Commons that today's right wingers conveniently leave out. Don't pick and choose.
post #93 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by gottabereal View Post

This "chief Rabbi" is a man-hating, miserable piece of sub-humanity peddling his primitive, irrational, supernatural ideological nonsense to the detriment of individual human beings who simply want to enjoy their lives. The hypocritical bastard uses an iPhone and iPad while trying to destroy them and keep us from enjoying them. I love myself, I love my life, I love iProducts, and I love any thing that can bring joy, convenience, and comfort to my life. I have zero tolerance for and hate any jackass who attacks any of these fundamental human values. So "chief Rabbi" go to the hell that religionists like you invented, because you and your anti-material, anti-Earth, anti-life, anti-man, anti-values, anti-enjoyment, anti-happiness putrid ideology do not belong on Earth! This chief Rabbi, who lives off the money that he mooched from working individuals by spewing his guilt-inducing anti-existence, anti-Earth, anti-material, anti-life, anti-self, anti-happiness ideology, should join forces with the chief of Christianity (the Pope), the chief imam of Islam, the chief of Buddhism (Dalai Lama), etc. and go live in a primitive cave with no running water, no electricity, no toilet, no microphones, no books, no computers, no Internet, no materialistic appliances, no consumeristic devices, no iDevices and leave us alone!

Awesome post ... gotta real beat to it
post #94 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by dg252 View Post

In a clarification sent out on Sunday, Chief Rabbi Sacks' office said that "The Chief Rabbi meant no criticism of either Steve Jobs personally or the contribution Apple has made to the development of technology in the 21st century. He admires both and indeed uses an iPhone and an iPad on a daily basis. The Chief Rabbi was simply pointing out the potential dangers of consumerism when taken too far."

Lord Sacks forgot to sign his rant, "Send from my iPad"

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #95 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux View Post

This rabbi doesn't know the half of it:

http://objectiveministries.org/creation/propaganda.html

"Given the now obvious anti-Christian and cultish nature of Apple Computers, is it any wonder that they have decided to base their newest operating system on Darwinism?"

And that's just the beginning...

Thanks for the link
post #96 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcsegenmd View Post

As if the israelis and their lack of ethicse.g., building on Palestinian land, cutting down their olive trees, blocking their export of food, jailing them for no reason, not negotiating in good faith, aren't giving the world enough reasons for anti-semitism, Rabbi Putz-berg adds to the reasons to dislike the Jewsand I'm half Jewish.

Materialism indeed.

When I got the first gen iPhone, I made of list of things (stuff) that I no longer needed, including a watch (haven't had a watch for years), PDA, iPod, etc and by current iPhone standards, it was pretty primitive. The current gen iPhone has a so much more, including movie camera, a pocket secretary, books and apps that are only limited by the developer community's imagination. If anything, an iPhone REDUCES materialism. It's a tool.

The only way that idiot can defend his position is if he rides a donkey (ass on an ass?), lives without electricity 24/7, has no TV, microwave, etc.

Lord Sacks is not an Israeli.
post #97 of 116
Nothing "individualist" or "egocentric" about allowing yourself use of the title "Lord" though!
It might even be considered blasphemy
post #98 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by dg252 View Post

In a clarification sent out on Sunday, Chief Rabbi Sacks' office said that "The Chief Rabbi meant no criticism of either Steve Jobs personally or the contribution Apple has made to the development of technology in the 21st century. He admires both and indeed uses an iPhone and an iPad on a daily basis. The Chief Rabbi was simply pointing out the potential dangers of consumerism when taken too far."

Amazing how the guy uses a little hyperbole (I found the Moses and "tablets" thing pretty amusing) to make a point and many people here jump all over him. It would be best to explore the context of his comments but it's too easy to read a couple lines in AI and stop there. For all we know, he had his "tongue in his cheek" when he mentioned Steve Jobs.

Regardless, it seemed obvious to me he was using the iDevices as an example of what's wrong with our world. You don't get to be a Lord by thinking an iPhone is the cause of every problem in the world.
post #99 of 116
From one rabbi to another...

http://mcrebbe.com/blog/2011/11/19/ivey/b83.html

Word!
post #100 of 116
The easiest way to facilitate poor behaviour is to convince the individual that he or she is not to blame for, is not responsible for their actions.

It`s the evil Apple empire and its`nefarious devices causing moral decay so it`s OK to act like a jerk, not care about your fellow man, and generally just not live your life to a high standard.

It would be like blaming the cellphone operator for charging a customer hundreds of dollars every month when it`s the consumer making bad choices. I have a cell phone but use it rather sparingly and pay a reasonable amount to maintain it every month, less than $30. Prolonged cellphone use costs hundreds in fees every month and exposes one to potentially dangerous levels of radiation. Being foolish about how one uses a technology is entirely on the consumer in question, not the company providing said technology. More to the point, if a person behaves badly, with a poor moral foundation, may I suggest looking in the mirror. Empowering people to act poorly, as this Rabbi appears to be doing, does no good whatsoever.
post #101 of 116
Bear in mind that this rabbi isn't the first person to identify the iPhone as representative of society's problems:

http://commonwealmagazine.org/selling-our-souls

"Previous generations fell in love with their cars or became addicted to TV, but this one elevates devotion to material objects to an altogether different level. In the guise of exercising freedom, its members engage in a form of idolatry. Small wonder that aficionados of Apples iPhone call it the Jesus Phone."
post #102 of 116
but I love having my Apple products. From a religious standpoint I can keep my scriptures, including personal notations and cross-references, on my iDevice and have it with me when I head to church or any other time I need to have them. When preparing speeches or lessons I use my iDevice to research the texts available online and to read through previous speeches and lessons I prepared.

I also use my iDevices to keep well connected with my family living across the country and more importantly letting my kids keep in touch with cousins and grandparents.

My church also uses social media heavily and has embraced technology for logistical and sharing means. And most of our top clergy uses iDevices to limit what they have to carry and to keep in touch with overall calendars and each other.

As with most advances, technology can be used for good or bad. Those who stick their head in the sand and refuse to recognize the benefits and only focus on the detriment to their cause will be left behind.
~Tokolosh
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~Tokolosh
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post #103 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSHMAN4 View Post

Perhaps the Ipad can help spread what religion and the Bible is all about. To single out any technology and blame that for an 'Egocentric culture' is equivalent to blaming lack of knowledge as the cause of stupidity.
Perhaps the chief Rabbi doesn't realize the benefits if an Ipad.

Clearly this rabbi missed out on the Me generation and the "Greed is good" mantra of the 80s. Apple is not the cause of this. Not to mention that iMac started to show how easily it hooked to the Internet and has since become a branding tool for Apple. Kind of like how when food chains globalize, sometimes the meaning gets lost. KFC means KFC rather than Kentucky Fried Chicken in many countries b/c what does Kentucky have to do w/them? Not to mention the lesser connotations of fried foods


Quote:
Originally Posted by moustache View Post

Yes there has always been a fight between magical vs religious topics. He forgot you can also download the bible and read on these devices?

Being a rabbi and thus Jewish, you might mention the Torah rather than the bible
post #104 of 116
Yes, Lord Sacks, let's all go back to the good old days of ignorance and fear. Hmmm, I wonder what the i in ignorance means.
post #105 of 116
So in response to the good rabbi, did the Queen, as The Beatles once requested from the monarchy present at a Royal Performance they once gave: "Just rattle all her jewelry." ??
post #106 of 116
"The rabbi went on to say that the consumer ethic fosters ingratitude because it makes people unhappy with what they have. People should instead spend their time thanking God for things they do have, Sacks said."

So those who precede their otherwise inconsequential names with words like "Lord" have always said "Thank God for your crumbs and don't covet the one percent's loaves, fishes, or asses."

There's only ever been one war: that of the haves against the have-nots - that of the insatiable hoarders against anyone with rational needs. Religion has always been one of the biggest weapons in its arsenal, and the random scapegoating of anything or anyone has always been religion's favorite tactic.
post #107 of 116
The Lord Rabbi will no doubt be reassured to hear that technology is no impediment to superstition.
post #108 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkplug View Post

So in response to the good rabbi, did the Queen, as The Beatles once requested from the monarchy present at a Royal Performance they once gave: "Just rattle all her jewelry." ??

Not quite true. It was the Queen Mother and Lennon said "For those of you in the cheap seats I'd like ya to clap your hands to this one; the rest of you can just rattle your jewellery!
post #109 of 116
...who told me when I say "oh God" or "thank God" it's proof of His existence. Oh God indeed.

Of course stuff doesn't make people happy! How trite. But I must further agree with fellows here that my iStuff has actually brought me closer to my family and helped me to realize what's important in my life - and has actually made me happy! Apple has certainly become the envy of the world, now apparently technology enemy #1 in religious pontification. But I'm sure like most people, without technology in general and concomitant enlightenment, my family would still be herding sheep somewhere in the Outer Hebrides, paying some other lord - the land lord - which i i I for one am very grateful to not be doing. Thank God for that!

Sent from my once very futuristic iPhone.
post #110 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyler82 View Post

I do think that modern day Apple users are insatiable and materialistic to the point of ridiculousness. It makes me when I read users posting that they sold their iPhone 4 so they can upgrade to an iPhone 4S. Seriously? Are you that dissatisfied with your life? I believe that it is the newer bandwagon Apple users that are like this, though. The old school fellas like myself tend to be loyal and stick with our Macs like we do with our underwear- until it is absolutely necessary to upgrade.

This is a poor example and I have to respond here as one who did it for very simple reasons:

A new iPhone4s 64GB is $1200 without contract, after selling my iPhone4 32GB (after eBay fees) it cost me $70 to upgrade for double the memory (which will be worth much more if I sell it in the future). (If I had stayed with the 32GB I would have made $30!)

If I am paying AT&T $37-45 bucks per month to buy my iPhone why would I stay on contract with an old iPhone that has been paid off as far as AT&T is concerned - that doesn't make financial cents - this isn't the computer model you are thinking of, you are always paying for a phone.

So an almost no cost upgrade and I get a better phone and for me that means a more memory and better camera since I take almost all my kids picts with my phone - so having the better low light, speed and resolution is totally worth it.

I think the real question is if you are eligible why wouldn't you do it?
post #111 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinker15 View Post

Not quite true. It was the Queen Mother and Lennon said "For those of you in the cheap seats I'd like ya to clap your hands to this one; the rest of you can just rattle your jewellery!

Thank you, kind sir or madam for the correction on the "rattle your jewelry" quote. But, hey, what can you expect from us folks who live in a place (USA) where we drive on the right-hand side of the road.
post #112 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by andre402 View Post

You really should to seek for help because with that blind and extreme hate-them-all attitude you may eventually kill some innocent target or just end blowing yourself up. I believe that's the kind of attitude your hated terrorists motivate themselves with.
Just a friendly warning to others. And yourself.

I'm not one of those religious retards, so there is zero chance of me ever blowing myself up. I value myself far too much for that. Don't compare me with subhuman terrorists.
post #113 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

However, your comment previous to this makes it sound like you've been listening to an AM radio fascist loon.

I think I know who you might be referring to, but I actually haven't listened to the radio in at least a decade. Even though others may share similar ideas to mine, my thoughts are my own.
post #114 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

"The rabbi went on to say that the consumer ethic fosters ingratitude because it makes people unhappy with what they have. People should instead spend their time thanking God for things they do have, Sacks said."

So those who precede their otherwise inconsequential names with words like "Lord" have always said "Thank God for your crumbs and don't covet the one percent's loaves, fishes, or asses."

There's only ever been one war: that of the haves against the have-nots - that of the insatiable hoarders against anyone with rational needs. Religion has always been one of the biggest weapons in its arsenal, and the random scapegoating of anything or anyone has always been religion's favorite tactic.

Umm... he was given the title by the UK government. He didn't think it up on his own.

Yes, wars are often a conflict between "haves" and "have-nots". I would say they are almost always the construct of politicians who drum up some kind of religious reason they can hide behind to obscure their motives and justify their actions. No better example than the Crusades.
post #115 of 116
just because he 'won' the honor of being called Lord by the Uk House, doesn't mean he has to wear it like a mantle
post #116 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

Amazing how the guy uses a little hyperbole (I found the Moses and "tablets" thing pretty amusing) to make a point and many people here jump all over him. It would be best to explore the context of his comments but it's too easy to read a couple lines in AI and stop there. For all we know, he had his "tongue in his cheek" when he mentioned Steve Jobs.

Regardless, it seemed obvious to me he was using the iDevices as an example of what's wrong with our world. You don't get to be a Lord by thinking an iPhone is the cause of every problem in the world.

You pretty much give up your right to critique what is wrong with the world when you accept a title of nobility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Right_said_fred View Post

just because he 'won' the honor of being called Lord by the Uk House, doesn't mean he has to wear it like a mantle

Indeed, he chooses to uses and stick it on all of his public statements, he obviously believes it holds some value. He is not required to use it. He was not even required to accept it.
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