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Combined Mac, iPad sales to make Apple top global PC vendor in 2012 - Page 4

post #121 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad View Post

So if I disagree with you and point out your contradictions..............then voila! i am a troll because you don't have a better arguement????

So, you are not prepared to counter my argument (go and read what I wrote) but submit the argument that you should be able say anything you like and have it accepted. My point was that it doesn't matter what is said, a troll continues with fallacious arguments regardless and claims immunity through the right to an opinion.
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post #122 of 262
Well, I sold my MBP because I no longer used it. My 2010 iMac is just fine. But my iPad lets me do just about everything I need to do while I'm sitting in the La-Z-Boy watching (and controlling) my TV, or in the car, or on vacation. My bank has an iPad banking version (but CheckbookPro is still spinning its wheels.) When my power was out for 7+ days, it was my link to the outside world, recharging quickly for a whole day during my generator on-times at night.

Yes, the iPad IS a real computer, and time will only make it more powerful, especially as more and more common apps get on the iOS bandwagon.
post #123 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShallRemainNameless@live.com View Post

"Largest seller of PCs in the world" is FALSE. Apple does not make PC therefore cannot be compare to PC makers like Dell, Sony, HP etc.
In the other this could be good for the consumer since PC price will keep dropping as Apple collect the PC market share.

Apple coined the name "Personal Computer" in 1977... long before the x86 architecture or IBM/PC ever existed.

Other microcomputers of the day uses 8080 or Z80 CPUs.

Here's a brochure from 1978:

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post #124 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

How about, take it with me and follow my progress in reaching an unfamiliar destination. Not good enough? How about using it to control an unpiloted aerial vehicle simply by holding and moving it? No PC that I've seen can do either of those with the possible exception of a portable equipped with capability extending peripherals. Dare accepted, now go away!

lol, those are your examples? I used my laptop to drive to Florida like 10 years ago, there are many GPSs to choose from.

Control an airplane, how about a USB joystick or accelerometer, there are many to choose from. You mean tilt the PC itself, attach the accelerometer to it.

/FAIL
post #125 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichL View Post

I never stated my definition of a personal computer.

But for the record, by my definition, a PC has most (but not always all) of the following characteristics:

- x86 architecture
- Modular hardware architecture
- High power consumption
- Designed for use with a desktop operating system

How would an ARM tablet running Windows 8 be classified,

What about a desktop computer running a "Desktop OS" (whatever that is) on 68xx architecture, PPC architecture or even ARM architecture... It's coming, you know

IMO, much of your definition defines baggage!
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post #126 of 262
Apple rules all.

Butthurt people can pretend that iPads aren't computers, but most people don't pay any attention to what crazy people and Fandroids say.
post #127 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post

The concept behind the iPad is still the same as a typical "personal computer", the only difference is the form factors and that there is less emphasis on creation than a typical personal microcomputer. The reason why a lot of people will not be calling it a "PC" is because it is not a typical desktop or notebook machine.

The fact still remains that it is still a personal electronic computer, as its primary function is processing given input data that results in a given output. You would not consider a smart phone a personal computer because its primary function is as a telephone and communications device. Its all about what the device is designed to do as its primary function.

I can buy a Desktop "PC" and not make it a "PC" anymore by changing its primary function from a computing personal data to computing data requested over a network. Suddenly, I have a Server when by the logic of many people in these forums it should still be a personal computer. I'm guessing it'll be because of the form factor.

I can buy an iPod Touch (iPhone, iPad), JailBreak it and install Apache -- makes a pretty decent web server. Also iOS has all the 'Nix OS (Mac OS X) that the hardware can support including the OS X structure and file system -- and any of these devices ($200 and up) are more capable than the Windows PCs of 10 years ago... Hell, I paid $225 for a Windows XP upgrade to Windows NT.
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post #128 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

So now we define what is or is not a personal computer by your arbitrary definition. Get a life!

You are just plain rude.
post #129 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by qualar View Post

You are just plain rude.

there is nothing wrong with being rude. Sometimes rude is precisely what's required.

Sent from my iPad (computer)

post #130 of 262
Of course, the ONLY reason any of this discussion has any meaning is to see how the market breaks down, and how that changes over time- because that will dictate to corporations where the consumer is putting their money.

So in the end it's irrelevant if people think an iPad is a PC- If people are buying iPads as a PC replacement, then it's in the same general market because someone is spending money on one rather than the other. As would a smartphone if that's all the computer someone wants/needs.

But if it makes anyone feel any better we could break it down thusly:

OVERALL MARKET: COMPUTER

SUBMARKETS: HANDHELD COMPUTER [Phone or Smartphone], TABLET COMPUTER, PERSONAL COMPUTER (Laptop or Desktop)

Smartphones are computers, but it's only relevant to the PC market if someone is buying a iPhone INSTEAD of a PC. It's already been shown that tablets have been eating away at the fringes of the PC market, to those who's needs are satisfied by the device. So there's no question that the tablet market has some relevance to the PC market. And as tablets get thinner, lighter, more powerful, it's unquestionable that this is bound to happen more frequently.

My parents have a macMini. I'd wager that by the time it needs replacing in 3-4 years, I'll have a hard time finding a reason for them to not just buy an iPad instead.
post #131 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Don't try to fool me with civility!!


You're still missing the point. If your point is that its not a 'personal' computer, then I question your definition of 'personal'. It doesn't get more 'personal' than an iPad.
If its about functionality, are you saying that if you can find one feature of a previous device that isn't carried forward into a subsequent incarnation, then all definitions stop at that point?
Most of the functionality of a 'personal computer' has become irrelevant to all but a small class of users.
The things that made the PC world-changing have ALL been brought forward into the iPad.
Again, defining 'self programability' as the defining feature of a PC is a self-serving definition, and that's the only differentiation I've heard anyone come up with yet.

Even the "self programability" argument is a losing one...



Codify lets you build iPad apps--on your iPad


Ahh... what makes a PC a PC... let me count the ways...

A Windows PC:
  • it is heavy
  • it is noisy
  • it consumes a lot of electricity
  • it creates a lot of heat
  • it runs a bloated OS
  • it runs bloated apps
  • it is difficult to install
  • it is difficult to maintain
  • it is difficult to use
  • it has an inconsistent and confusing UI
  • it is too expensive for what it does
  • it doesn't last
  • it is Fugly
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post #132 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

Wrong! Most PCs are in fact, less capable than the iPad, which is why the term PC will go away in respect of describing something useful.

You know, yours is the first argument that's actually persuaded me to stop advocating for "iPad as PC".
Well played, sir.
post #133 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Using 11thIndian's defintion which I think is great, "A PC isn't defined as a device that allows you do to everything, it's a device that allows you to do everything you want to do." I suppose a smartphone or PMP might fit that build, but I doubt that many would consider it a replacement for a standard PC.

Where a user might have used a notebook for casual computing or have been tied to a desktop they are finding the iPad to fit the majority of their PC needs. I've even read about plenty of longtime notebook users going for a desktop for their purchase because the iPad suits their mobile needs sufficiently and in many ways better.

I can dig it but I think referring to an iPad as a personal computer is perfectly fine if not unnecessarily verbose.

As a PC in traditional terms, however, I don't see how it fits.

Definitions do change though...

My main point bringing that up is the claims that the argument that the iPad isn't a PC (traditional) was to somehow deflate the greatness that is Apple when the included argument was that if that is now included in the PC sector then so is the iPhone and iPod Touch (which would dramatically increase the size of Apple's PC division and not deflate it at all.

The argument isn't some ulterior motive...it's all semantic.
post #134 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by techguy911 View Post

Oh really, most PCs?. I dare you to name a SINGLE thing an iPad can do that most PCs cannot. And not something stupid like "run iOS" or something iPad specific like Angry Birds. Because I can name hundreds of things a PC can do that an iPad can't.

Hold it up to the sky and get an augmented reality view of the cosmos?
Give me the yardage to #18 hole from the fairway with an aerial view of all of the bunkers along the way?
Click a picture of my kid at the beach and have it immediately viewed by the grandparents?
Solve a niche need for which I can find an immediate point solution on the app store instead of having to write up coded solution or buy overpriced, generalized software?

You asked for 1. I can go on.
post #135 of 262
I think the iPad is a tablet computer.

I've always thought so. Because, well, it is.

I think the iMac is a PC.

however both the iMac and the iPad are personal computers in the general sense.

Since tablets are suitable PC replacements for the non heavy user...correction, since the iPad is a suitable PC replacement...I understand it being included in the study...I guess...even though personally I feel it is a different market.

Some people buy coupes instead of mini-vans.
post #136 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Hold it up to the sky and get an augmented reality view of the cosmos?
Give me the yardage to #18 hole from the fairway with an aerial view of all of the bunkers along the way?
Click a picture of my kid at the beach and have it immediately viewed by the grandparents?
Solve a niche need for which I can find an immediate point solution on the app store instead of having to write up coded solution or buy overpriced, generalized software?

You asked for 1. I can go on.

So the iPad is a different market...a new one, a better one technically...especially if/when these things can be docked at home to be used in more traditional PC ways.
post #137 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

While I have enjoyed reading this debate (and ConradJoe hasn't been trolling so stop throwing that word around for anyone with an argument that doesn't align with yours) I noticed one thing that seemed to be glossed over.

If the iPad is now in the PC category why isn't the iPhone?

Simple... the activities that an iPad is used for is a superset of the activities that most PCs are used for.

BTW, One form of trolling, is to muddy the water with inane and/or off-topic comments to try and hijack the thread... thinly-veiled insults or left-handed compliments (ala DED) are a form of this.
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post #138 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolbolas View Post

The ipad is not a computer very simply:

Apple says it is for a "post-PC" world...

computer that is for post computer world? it the iPad a personal computer, well, not according to its creator at least...

Ahh... you don't understand Steve-Talk...

The iPad ushered in a post-[Windows]PC era.

Seriously, we now have a computing solution that is as good or better for most personal computing uses then a Windows PC or a Mac personal computer...

...the OS and the hardware doesn't get in the way between you and your stuff (computing needs).

1) Pick it up
2) Tap it's on in less than a second
3) Slide to unlock access to a world that contains, you, your stuff and all the capabilities (apps) you use

It is all right there in an instant, at your fingertips, wherever you are...

The fact that it is a very personal computer is incidental... it's just you... doing your thing... with your stuff!
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post #139 of 262
Politeness won out.
post #140 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by qualar View Post

You are just plain rude.

Problem is, he's right too.
post #141 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I can buy an iPod Touch (iPhone, iPad), JailBreak it and install Apache -- makes a pretty decent web server. Also iOS has all the 'Nix OS (Mac OS X) that the hardware can support including a the OS X structure and file system -- and any of these devices ($200 and up) are more capable than the Windows PCs of 10 years ago... Hell, I paid $225 for a Windows XP upgrade *from Windows NT.

Woah! Slow down there Ol' iPad-Throne King

We wouldn't want your whole argument thrown down the toilet due to nasty "slip-up".

*Fixed it for ya
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post #142 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

How about this then:

The iPad brings personal computing to millions of people who, otherwise, would not have access to these benefits!

Awesome statement!
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post #143 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

So, you are not prepared to counter my argument (go and read what I wrote) but submit the argument that you should be able say anything you like and have it accepted. My point was that it doesn't matter what is said, a troll continues with fallacious arguments regardless and claims immunity through the right to an opinion.

to the ignore list you go!

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post #144 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Hold it up to the sky and get an augmented reality view of the cosmos?

Can be done on a PC with a webcam.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Give me the yardage to #18 hole from the fairway with an aerial view of all of the bunkers along the way?

Ever heard of golfworldmap.com? You don't need an iPad to get golf site information and aerial views.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Click a picture of my kid at the beach and have it immediately viewed by the grandparents?

Can be done with a 3G capable PC. Though I don't think it's a good idea to take a laptop or an iPad to the beach.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Solve a niche need for which I can find an immediate point solution on the app store instead of having to write up coded solution or buy overpriced, generalized software

So you're saying an iPad can use iPad apps and a PC can't? Are you really that desperate for an example?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

You asked for 1. I can go on.

I asked for 1 and you provided 0, so keep trying. Don't give me examples where an iPad is more convenient, that's not the point. I'm looking for something that only an iPad can do.
post #145 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Using 11thIndian's defintion which I think is great, "A PC isn't defined as a device that allows you do to everything, it's a device that allows you to do everything you want to do." I suppose a smartphone or PMP might fit that build, but I doubt that many would consider it a replacement for a standard PC.

Where a user might have used a notebook for casual computing or have been tied to a desktop they are finding the iPad to fit the majority of their PC needs. I've even read about plenty of longtime notebook users going for a desktop for their purchase because the iPad suits their mobile needs sufficiently and in many ways better.

Ya' know in a world, say, 2-3 years down the road -- where the number of cars outnumber the trucks...

There, likely, will be a need for all those car users to, occasionally, have access to a more powerful vehicle -- or to tow a boat...

Today we rent a U-Haul or install a trailer hitch.


I suspect in an iPad dominated world, the occasional need for more power or access to accessories (printers, scanners, etc.) could be satisfied by going to a place where these services (bigger iron, apps and accessories) are available.

For many, that place would be the home.

For the iPad generation, that place might be a [school or Public] library, Starbucks, McDonalds or somesuch...

Maybe an interesting opportunity...


P.S. Stop stealing my Thunder [from the Throne]
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post #146 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOROM View Post

Well it was your list after all....
webcams: not yet
pen drives: huh?

The iPad2 has a front facing camera included, so webcams are covered. Pen drive/usb drive, well computers prior to the iMac didn't have USB ports, so I guess w/his definition anything pre-1998 isn't a PC either
post #147 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Simple... the activities that an iPad is used for is a superset of the activities that most PCs are used for.

BTW, One form of trolling, is to muddy the water with inane and/or off-topic comments to try and hijack the thread... thinly-veiled insults or left-handed compliments (ala DED) are a form of this.

I know. But I haven't seen that in this thread...and most of the so-called "Trolls" who stayed in my short time here are hardly trolls.
post #148 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Dick is royalty around here... and this is his first speech from the throne (that we know about anyway).

We appreciate your due deference...
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post #149 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by techguy911 View Post

Oh really, most PCs?. I dare you to name a SINGLE thing an iPad can do that most PCs cannot. And not something stupid like "run iOS" or something iPad specific like Angry Birds. Because I can name hundreds of things a PC can do that an iPad can't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

....OK... I'm biting: for example?

To be fair, we must allow him to attach to his PC:
-- a display
-- a keyboard
-- a mouse
-- a WiFi or Modem adapter
-- a Camera or Scanner
-- a GPS adapter
-- a multitouch graphics tablet

Then, his PC could do everything an iPad can do -- maybe even more
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post #150 of 262
This is a very unfair statistic. By this logic, Android is certainly the number 1 OS.

iPad is a tablet and should be treated as such. Mac computers still lag behind.
post #151 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

To be fair, we must allow him to attach to his PC:
-- a display
-- a keyboard
-- a mouse
-- a WiFi or Modem adapter
-- a Camera or Scanner
-- a GPS adapter
-- a multitouch graphics tablet

Then, his PC could do everything an iPad can do -- maybe even more

D*** D.A....! You're on a serious roll today! Get some? Or have some! That is the question...
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post #152 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

To be fair, we must allow him to attach to his PC:
-- a display
-- a keyboard
-- a mouse
-- a WiFi or Modem adapter
-- a Camera or Scanner
-- a GPS adapter
-- a multitouch graphics tablet

Then, his PC could do everything an iPad can do -- maybe even more

the iPad cannot do everything a PC can do, and vice versa.

So obviously capability is not the decisive factor in what makes a PC a PC.
post #153 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

So we've gone from "the iPad isn't a personal computer because you have to connect it to a Mac/PC running iTunes to activate it" to "iPads aren't personal computers because they can't do as much as Mac OS/Windows"? I guess that makes only Windows tablets personal computers, but what about Windows 8 that will ue a new UI specifically for the touch UI?

Sounds like a lot of sour grapes to me. The idea that it's not a personal computer unless users can have carte blanche access to delete root files that will brick their machine is a pretty lame excuse. I'd think the term personal would be a big enough clue as to what a personal computer is. After all, the iPad does a lot more and is a lot more powerful than most of the history of "PC"s.



Not if you tell us about it.

So then you're saying that my phone is a PC? Hmm....gotta throw my desktop out now.

Wait, didn't Motorola come out withi phones that can go into a laptop dock? I still wouldn't consider those computers at all. We can't simply keep changing the definition so some companies can get the upper hand. Can it in the future? Yes. But then again, I think iPads will die out by that logic. Why get an iPad when my phone can virutally do the same thing *looks at 4S*. Tablets are meant ot bridge the connection, not replace it.


My Gamecube, Wii, 360 and what nots are PCs essentially, but it's the restrictiveness that makes them less so. They serve one purpose.

I also think that having an iPad not running on iOS and instead on OSX will ruin the entire iPad franchise.
post #154 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post

This is a very unfair statistic. By this logic, Android is certainly the number 1 OS.

iPad is a tablet and should be treated as such. Mac computers still lag behind.

No, there are not nearly as many Android systems out there as Windows systems. Also you would be combining sales for a multitude of companies to get that Android sales statistic. This statistic is by individual company. It's perfectly fair, how do you think company's profits are determined? MS doesn't add IBM's bottom line and profit when doing their annual report after all


Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post

Wait, didn't Motorola come out withi phones that can go into a laptop dock?

The Atrix
post #155 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Actually I have more than a few of those scenarios as well... and there is one guy I can't truthfully move from his Win-Box, due to accounting software. ALTHOUGH, he has a Mac-mini in his future running Fusion or Parallels... he just doesn't know it yet

I should have been more careful about that suggestion: I have this wretched image in my brain that won't go away and has me ROFL and in tears every time I see it!

They say I have a strong resemblance to that "cave" man in the Geico commercials...

That should help focus the image in your brain
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post #156 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post


The Atrix

Genius concept...not so great execution.
post #157 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by qualar View Post

You are just plain rude.

Rude? Rude...

I'm the west coast distributor!
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post #158 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Genius concept...not so great execution.

I wouldn't call the concept genius. It's not only common to combine technologies as they evolve, but natural. The problem, as you say, is the execution. If anyone can do this right it's Apple because they do control the HW and SW, and they already have a foundation OS that runs on multiple architectures and uses multiple UIs.

I would expect Apple has had Atrix-like devices in their labs for years that can switch between CocoaTouch and Aqua UIs simply by placing it in the proper docking bay. No screen flicker. No rudimentary mouse driven GUI reminiscent of Linux GUIs from the 90s.

So if I think Apple has long figured this out then why isn't it on the market? The answer to that is with all this Apple: Never release before its time. There is no market for the Atrix at this point even if the GUIs were good because the underlying HW simply isn't good enough to for it to be all things but we're getting close. Cortex-A15 MC with an ImgTech GPU capable of powering a 27" ATD might just be when that threshold is met, but a 1GHz Tegra 2 isn't it.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #159 of 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by techguy911 View Post



I asked for 1 and you provided 0, so keep trying. Don't give me examples where an iPad is more convenient, that's not the point. I'm looking for something that only an iPad can do.

How about getting FAA approval for using the ipad as a replacement for paper maps. There are lots of places that the ipad is more capable and appropriate in use than a laptop including some of the uses you already discounted. Just because you can duct tape an accelerometer to a laptop doesn't make it as useful as something designed for it.
post #160 of 262
Until my favorite free adult sites stop redirecting me to their mobile version where I have to pay....then they are not PCs!
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