Combined Mac, iPad sales to make Apple top global PC vendor in 2012 - Page 6

OMG, I think his "it's not a PC if it doesn't have MS Office" excuse deserves the troll of the year award.

Queue the angelic multitude...

Hallelujah!

Don't call me a troll or that will have consequences.

How is that a troll comment hmm? So if I said, iPhone and Razr are the same because their phones and it's "not an iPhone because it doesn't have iOS deserves" a troll of the year award? That makes no sense entirely.

I can see the light shining down on my monitor right now.

I just gotta save my 20 page essay and awesomeness will be mine. Thanks MS Office. *clicks save* BSOD. NOOOOOOOOO!!!!


*right now my work computer is next to a computer with the BSOD on it!*

I use my car most of the time I have to drive somewhere, but sometimes I need my pickup truck to do certain bigger tasks. Both are counted in their manufacturers' sales figures.

But would you combine motorcycle sales and car sales?

So by your reckoning cars are personal vehicles but motorcycles aren't personal vehicles by the virtue of the fact that they are more personal?

The ASUS Eee Pad Transformer Prime looks to be the best execution, at least in HW for the mobile touchscreen device turned into a stnadard laptop device concept.

»

http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/21/2...e-order-536-99 Still need to see how well ASUS made the mouse/trackpad work, but I can't imagine it's as awful as Motorola did with the Atrix.

Amen to that!

I love the portal analogy.

If Maserati invented a popular portal travel system it would be silly to start trying to define a portal as a car, even if you wanted to see Maserati as the number 1 "car manufacturer".

However it would also mean people would need to be careful about what conclusions they tried to draw. e.g. you could no longer use the list of top car manufacturers to determine the most popular mode of transport.

Heck you could even say that since portals were the way of the future then Maserati's place as the number 1 portal manufacturer was more important than their position on the top car manufacturers list, and you might even say the top car manufacturers list isn't anywhere near as relevant to the world as it once was.

What would be really silly is if you tried to include Maserati's portals when compiling the top car manufacturer list, and then also include them when compiling the top portals list.

Using your logic, I can do any of those with an iPad. Just like you can use Scotch tape to affix a GPS to your "personal computer" or insert a wireless access card for the functions served natively by the iPad of which a typical "personal computer" is incapable. Additionally, I noticed that isn't even a fraction of the thousands you claim and barely a fraction of the one hundred I requested since you claimed thousands.

- Apple laptops used to be on the PPC (88k) architecture.
- SOCs are still modular, they just happen to be on the same die. The A5, for example, keeps its GPU separate from the CPU.
- You say high power consumption, yet companies like Intel are driving down said power consumption. What happens when a desktop computer reaches 10watts (same as the iPad charger) ?
- Desktop operating system is defined as what, exactly? Don't you dare say "for use with a mouse" because I can very easily point to Windows 8 to show otherwise.

Most Desktop/Notebook computers can't even do that. No optical drive. The Mac doesn't doesn't do bluray at all! I don't think Linux does either (or does very poorly). Many computers wouldn't be able to play BluRay thanks in part to really slow internal components.

I can WiFi print to my printer. Or does the lack of a physical plug render that point moot? (hint, it doesn't)

Don't iPhones do that automatically without a desktop computer? Pretty sure they do. Also: Software requirement, not a limitation of the physical hardware.

Software requirement, not a limitation of the physical hardware.

The GPS maps on my iPhone update themselves quote nicely
Also, Software requirement, not a limitation of the physical hardware.

Software requirement, not a limitation of the physical hardware.

Software requirement, not a limitation of the physical hardware.
Plus you'd need a computer with an optical drive first. I've seen plenty without.

Software requirement, not a limitation of the physical hardware. (on a side note, I used my iPad to SSH into the servers at work today to twidle with some PHP files)

Software requirement, not a limitation of the physical hardware.

Software requirement, not a limitation of the physical hardware.

Software requirement, not a limitation of the physical hardware (sans instruction set).

Oh please, now you're reaching for the bottom of the Niche barrel here! Although now that I think about it... all the flash gear needs is a USB connection. With that in mind: Software requirement, not a limitation of the physical hardware.






The iPad could easily do all the things a desktop/notebook could do. Some bright spark just needs to write the software first. To prove a point; If I came over to your house, striped all the 3rd party software off your machine and disallowed any new installations so you were left with only email, notepad, a media player and web browser, by your (quite frankly, stupid) logic it would not be a "PC" anymore because you couldn't download busty-babes 6 from Demonoid or rip a DVD. HO SNAP!. Do you see how your logic causes an issue? A brand new, out of the box notebook computer with no optical drive can't do ANYTHING you suggested because it lacks the software - again, your logic == not a PC. The iPad is just as much a "PC" as anything else - because everything else is just as dumb and useless until someone writes the software to make it happen.

For christ sake, you can turn the Playstation 2 into your definition of a "PC" by buying the Linux software from Sony (if they still sell it).

You're confusing "PC Clone" with "Home Computer". The iPad is definitely NOT a PC Clone (look it up) but what it definitely is, is a home computer.







Just read all that back to myself and your logic and views in many areas is going to have to do one mother of a 180 in some areas if you try to argue the opposite.

I used to run Linux on my old computer. That doesn't have Microsoft Office. Now explain your office argument in the context of a Linux user.




I also did my entire undergrad dissertation in Page for Mac. Go Figure.

Linux users can burn in Hades.

You honestly expect him to go through 1,000+ reasons? Yeah, because he totally doesn't have a life to do that.

You can't do those with the iPad. It's not interacting with the iPad's software. THAT'S the main difference. Windows KNOWS I'm burning a CD. iPad does not.


You can't even insert a CD itno an iPad at all......oh wait.

In other words, you have no valid answer and resort to an insult.



Its burn in "hell" you lumbering twit

The irony. And I never said that.

Linux is an OS for desktop and laptops, but it's severly limited. Your entire question didn't even make sense. Linux isn't a computer or PC, it's the OS that runs on a PC/Laptop/whatnots.

You said if a computer cannot run Office, it is not a PC. Linux is a system to allow a computer to run and there is no version of office for Linux. Is it still a "PC"? Of course it is.

Also, pick up a text book or two, you need to learn more about Unix and Unix-like operating systems if you think they are not very powerful.

[insult removed]

Your assertions are completely wrong. You basically claim everything can be solved by software. iOS does not allow many of the things on my list. Or are you saying that the iPad capabilities should include things that need a hacked operating system with significant new capabilities added (which doesn't exist)? The PC items I listed exist now and are known functions of a PC. Your are listing theoretical things that don't and will never exist.

How do you claim it can burn DVD's? Are you suggesting that it could if someone custom designed a DVD burner that can plug into the iPod dock, that's a ridiculous and desperate claim. iPad has a USB adapter you say? Useless, it doesn't have a full USB host controller, so it IS a hardware limitation.

Maybe you should read your words back again and look at how wrong they are.

Thanks for misquoting me. I am not being a troll or idiotic as I never said that Unix isn't powerful. Heck, I've installed Linux on my Wii and Ubuntu on my old Windows XP PC when it went haywire. We're arguing a term that has been changed majorly in the past few years.


That's what I said. I never said that if a computer cannot run Office, it is not a PC.You assumed and were wrong.

So would you call the T-Mobile G1 a PC?


iPads are very limiting pushing them away from being a PC. If you got your kid an iPad or Android tablet, you would run into a lot of problems. Many programs just wouldn't run because of incompatiblity. It's a limited enviroment. The Dreamcast ran Windows CE, but it's not a PC.


PCs have evolved a LOT more than tablets and will continue to do so. Even if a phone is is more powerful than a windows 98 computer, that doesn't mean it completely trounces that computer.


The original Xbox was esentially a PC turned video game console. What made it different ?It only played video games.

No. You said because the iPad cannot run Office it was not a PC. By that logic, if a Linux based PC cannot run office, then it is not a PC. Please think it through. It was not misquoting but applying a different (and realistic) context to your statement.


Of course not. Its primary function is a telephone.


The dreamcast was also a video game system as its primary function. All it would need is the correct operating software to allow access to data manipulation tools and it would become a personal computer. Look at the Playstation 2 with the Hard Disk add on - that ran a full Linux OS with everything from document editing to video playback. Turning it from a Video Game Console to a Home Computer in one move.


They have evolved from keyboards with cassette decks to boxes with floppy drives. Then boxes with CD Drives to clamshell cases. Then from clamshell cases to thin slate devices. The iPad is a slate device - I put windows on it with a Dell badge and by some crazy logic it becomes a PC. How and Why?


You just contradicted your Dreamcast and G1 arguments by saying that, and verified my claims of "software makes the system what it is". You really have not thought this through.

All you need is the little USB camera connection kit and it works like a charm. USB Keyboards, MIDI devices and Audio interfaces work out of the box on the iPad with no additional software. All you would need is a minute bit of software to allow communication to a USB optical drive and be able to read the formats as such and you're good to go. If you pull the argument of "but the iPad doesn't have a USB port by default" then I'll simply pull "this netbook doesn't have a DVD Drive by default", "this desktop computer does not have a wireless network device by default" and "this computer does not have a firewire port by default". Think carefully before continuing.

You also dodged my question of "if I removed all the 3rd party software from your PC" statement. By your logic it would no longer be classed as a PC once said software was removed, therefore removing said functionality that you attribute to be "a PC". Please answer this question rather than dodging it.

But you don't get it, do you? It still changes the class in which it belongs. Just because humans and monkeys are largely bipedal beings that does NOT mean they are one in the same. They belong to the class beings. But if I said human beings, then that totally throws monkeys out of the picture.


A table and a PC are different. Just like a clamshell phone and candybar style phone are diffrent. There is Desktop PC and Laptop/Notebook PC (more commonly computers). Why do you think they have netbooks out? The names create a class of products that generally share the same feature set. However, overbroadening the feature set creates other problems because we can do that with other things as well.

Apple doesn't make PCs, they make iPhones, Macs, and iPads. Go to download.com right now. They'll give you two choices to download: PC or Mac. iPad is missing. Oh wait, let me click on the PC link. OOOOOPPS!

The problem lies with the blantant miscategorization of Macs into the PC category. Top computer vendor....I can take that more. But PC is much less broad. The OP article is terribly written. I can make Android number one in phones by saying there are more Anroid phones than Apple phones and therefore Apple should get out of the race. But doing that would be a misconception? Not according to you.

You've gone from computers to the evolutionary chain. There are so many things wrong with that comparison of evolution and software in your context I'm pretty much dumfounded as to how you reached such a conclusion. Either way, I'll press on.

You actually believe that marketing hype? Of course the macintosh is a personal computer. Its just a brand for pities sake - it always has been a brand. "PC" has just become the generic term for an x86 compatible machine running windows because of the IBM PC from 1981 and the glut of "PC Clones" since then all running Microsoft software, when in actuality a PC is any single user electronic computing device.

I refer you to the actual dictionary definition of a Computer (Oxford British English):
"an electronic device which is capable of receiving information (data) in a particular form and of performing a sequence of operations in accordance with a predetermined but variable set of procedural instructions (program) to produce a result in the form of information or signals."

So we all know what a computer is: a device that receives instructions and acts upon them.

The definition of a Personal Computer is as follows:
"a computer designed for use by one person at a time."

To lengthen the definition slightly: a computer device capable of receiving input to give the desired output from a single user with no time sharing capabilities as found in mainframes.

Therefore a personal computer is any single user device. Be it an xbox or a macintosh.

Once we have that definition complete, we then move onto the more specific categories. In order to keep the list short (because its technically any single use device with a microprocessor), I'll give the most obvious answer: VIdeo Game Consoles. They are designed and built to be an interactive entertainment system and cannot be expended beyond this design limitation.

Once we get past the more specific computer systems, we come to the big daddy. When anyone says "PC", they are always referring to a general purpose home computer. A general purpose home computer is any personal computer system who's functionality is not limited by design.

Rather than typing it all out, I shall refer you to this snippet from Wikipedia:
"Software applications for personal computers include, but are not limited to, word processing, spreadsheets, databases, Web browsers and e-mail clients, digital media playback, games, and myriad personal productivity and special-purpose software applications. Modern personal computers often have connections to the Internet, allowing access to the World Wide Web and a wide range of other resources. Personal computers may be connected to a local area network (LAN), either by a cable or a wireless connection. A personal computer may be a desktop computer or a laptop, tablet PC, or a handheld PC."

Note that the definition given here is any single user, general purpose home computer that CAN have any of the following software but IS NOT required to but CAN be expanded if the user desires. It CAN have a connection to the Internet to use Web resources but is NOT required, and comes in a wide variety of form factors, including TabletPC - a category to which all devices running Windows Tablet edition, Android, MeeGo, WebOS, OSX (via modbook) and iOS fall under.

Therefore, it puts the iPad under the pseudo of "personal computer". It is a single user, general purpose electronic computing device in a TabletPC form factor that can be configured to a user's needs via entirely optional software packages (hence "general purpose"). Yes, the iPad is a Mobile computer, but it is still a general purpose home computer regardless of its form factor.



The only way "PC" can be interpreted differently is if you are referring to the brand name used by IBM in 1981 for their line of general purpose home computers.

There, the actual definition to which the iPad ticks all of the boxes. If you argue against that with more arbitrary definitions as to what a "PC" is (such as your bewilderingly silly statement of being able to program an arduino) then I give up. Please think long and hard about the term "general purpose home computer" and then get back to me. If its more silly arbitrary fluff I will just post a picture of captain Picard face-palming and quote this entire post again.

Lastly - no mobile apps on Download.com?
Funny, cos I look at download.com and do you know what I see? Download links for iPad apps and a BIG button for mobile apps (even web apps!). "Ooops" indeed, matey

So then we can conclude the Xbox 360 is a PC? And my Samsung Vibrant? I'm not seeing a difference. By your logic it is.

Hold on a moment, I'm trying to help a customer connect their iPad to their modem wihout a router.

A computer should be at least dependent of it's own accord. I shouldn't have to sync iTunes for it to work. In the general sense, it's a computer. But there's a lot of computers. My Gameboy Pocket is a PC, right? Two can play that game. It's both personal and a computer. The goal of Apple was to blur the lines. The purpose of the iPad.

The problem I have (especially here) is people keep moving the tape to benefit Apple. But you can't do that with other manufactrers. Include the sales of an Anroid phone.

But vague defintions will keep churning the butter. I can certainly prove to you that Winston Churchill is a carrot.

But if a is equal to b and b is equal to c and c is equal to d then d is equal to a.

If I take your logic and add the iPad to the class PC then I can certainly add an Xbox to the class PC. I can also add all Android phones to that class too.

This article is adding a class that wasn't even declared by Apple to be apart of.

Okay, so I finally found the words I want to say. The iPad is a paradigm shift, an evolution. It's beyond what a PC.

Think of it this way: PCs didn't have 'apps' until the iPad/iPhone right? I more notably say iPad because of it's recentness. Now so many things have apps. They no longer have 'programs' as we have come to know from the more commonly known 'windows pcs' at the time. For example, my Panasonic 50ST30 has apps. I can twitter and facebook and play games. I mean, you could call many HDTVs now PCs. But there is so much evolution thanks to Apple that lines are starting to blur. No matter the device, I think apps are the devices rather than the reverse.

Some feature phones have been greatly expanded thanks to apps. Apple was like, heck we don't need to have everything "modern PCs" do as our device can become the product. Instead of video chat/skype being a window on your computer, it becomes the phone. I see PCs as an older, more tired concept. More or less for productivity, but not largely needed.

I remember wehn the Sega Dreamcast came out and it had a web browser (I soo wanted a computer at the time). It took me a bit to grasp the concept that the DC and a 'PC' were different. The PC generally had the most function of a device. {To be Cont]

What's a Canada Goose Chiliwack?

Sure, if you take a PC, remove all ability to install any software on it, and make it restricted to only checking email and browsing the internet, then yes, it's not what I would consider a "PC" (for lack of a better term), so what's the point of your question? If I take an iPad and remove the ability to install anything on it, I'd say that makes it almost useless, so why are we even discussing these scenarios, what is the point you are trying to make?

A PC is designed to talk to all USB devices; an iPad is designed to talk to a select few. A PC is meant to do whatever you need it to, an iPad does only what is allowed by the locked down hardware and OS. No, you can't add software to it for it to talk to a DVD drive. I have written over 20 iPhone and iPad apps, I know the limitations, it's not possible.

Can you hack it up, break Apple's security, load some hacked OS, and make the hardware itself do it, possibly, but now you have turned it into something it is not. You could also hack up an XBox, iPhone, or a TI-89 to burn DVDs if you really wanted to, but that is going outside the scope of what it does.

I love playing Super Mario on me TI. Goodtimes in Calculus.


Yeah, the scope in which it does is a big factor. I think Steve Jobs hit the head on the nail and he did not make it what it's not. It's limited for a reason, WHY IT'S SUCCESSFUL.

By definition, yes. In the generic sense, no. Because they are not general purpose home computers.

But how would it no longer be a PC? It's a still a computer only in use by you to perform tasks based on input data to result in an output and is still general purpose. A brand new install of Windows 7 does not come with any software applications apart from the built in emails, notepad, word pad, Internet explorer and a media player (the same feature set as the iPad) - so you're telling me that it would not qualify as a PC until you installed VLC and uTorrent?

A computer can talk to any device as long as the software is there for it to work. I can plug my graphics tablet into an iPad and it won't work, I can then plug it into a desktop machine and it wont work - why? Because neither of them magically have the driver software installed by default. Some bright spark has to write the software first - someone has already written driver software for burtooth mice for jail broken iPads, showing the OS is more than capable. it just needs "access" to the administrator, as it were. Hell, on non jail broken devices, ten1 design have written software that ignores finger input but allows pressure sensitive drawing via a stylus, show that it is more than capable mod doing so when not jail broken. All about the software.

But even so, the iPad is still a general purpose home computer by definition - more commonly known as a "PC". A reduction in out of the box functionality does not change the fact it is still general purpose. Windows 8 apps will only be available from a locked down Microsoft store. By your silly definition of locked down not equalling PC, a windows 8 device woulda longer be a PC, even though it is still a general purpose home computer!

Why do many Apple fanboys htink it's a bad thing to put the iPad into a different category, when it's the leader of that category? Companies do this all the time. For example, Samsung is the number 1 TV manufacturer, while Vizio is number 1 in LCDs. Actually, VIZIO sells more TVs but Samsung brings a bigger profit.

Also, SONY refers itself (it's game divison) as SONY COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT. It is a computer that entertains. But it's part of the marketing ploy too. The goal of the PS3 is to be an entertaiment machine/console/computer. "IT ONLY DOES EVERYTHING". They didn't say it was a PC, as that would lose the concept of what it is.

Eh, that might ring truer than you think. Microsoft is trying to get a way from the PC concept into a more media consuption in the cloud. The fact that it has "apps" now changes the face of PC-a paradigm shift incited by apple. Again, I'm seeing things more connected than ever before. I think we are trying to phase out of the PC era, which is quite an old concept BTW.

That comment is wrong.

For a lot of people "PC" means a subset of "general purpose home computers". Some people might see it as meaning IBM-clones, others might see it as anything running x86 Windows/OSX/Linux, others might see it as a device that can perform certain specific functions.

When trying to group "general purpose home computers" under a banner the absolute best case scenario is that term "PC" is ambiguous.

For an example of the confusion this causes you need look no further than the 6 pages of comments on this thread.

Personally I wish that the industry analysts would just get together and come up with some kind of standard. There is no right or wrong answer, if they just decided on some common guidelines then everyone would be better off.

Otherwise in the coming months were are going to get countless more threads like this one.

The problem is that people keep scaling and expand the definition to fit their needs. If Android tablets become the highest selling, they aren't 'true tablets'. If you add up all the windows PCs, "But netbooks aren't true PCS!".

But if we are going to be vauge, here are a list of PCs:

"Super Nintendo, Playstation, TI-84 Calculator, Gameboy Pocket, Alienware, Samsung SMART TVs, Xbox 360".

Apart from only one item on your list (an Alienware) is actually a general purpose home computer. :b

An EXPENSIVE general home purpose computer! A brand that Dell seemed to ruin. With their exploding laptops.

*slaps sense into you* Don't get a Windows phone, Centels are much better!

Exploding laptops, ugly case designs and about £1000+ on top of the already inflated price tag

A centel what?