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HP leads all 1.2M non-Apple tablets sold in US in 2011

post #1 of 137
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The NPD Group on Tuesday offered a picture of how tablets that are not Apple's iPad are faring in the market in the U.S., revealing that Hewlett-Packard's $99 fire sale of the failed TouchPad gave it the largest unit share so far in 2011.

HP was the top non-Apple tablet brand for retail sales between January and October of 2011, taking a 17 percent share, according to NPD. That narrowly bested Samsung, which came in second place with 16 percent.

In third was Asus, earning a 10 percent share of the U.S. market, while Motorola and Acer each followed with 9 percent. Research in Motion, which makes the struggling PlayBook, didn't crack the top five.

The fact that total U.S. tablet sales could only muster 1.2 million total units in a ten-month span shows the disparity between the iPad and everyone else. For example, in the last quarter alone, Apple reported worldwide sales of 11.2 million iPads, though a regional breakdown of the three-month period was not provided.

Still, NPD said that tablet hardware sales for non-Apple vendors accelerated throughout 2011, with each quarter performing better than the last. Third-quarter sales were said to be twice as strong as the second quarter of 2011, while second-quarter sales were three times better than the first three months of the year.

"If you look at the tablet market without Apple there are a number of high-profile brands vying for that number two spot, said Stephen Baker, vice president of industry analysis at NPD. "According to NPDs Consumer Tracking Service, 76 percent of consumers who purchased a non-Apple tablet didnt even consider the iPad, an indication that a large group of consumers are looking for alternatives, and an opportunity for the rest of the market to grow their business."

The numbers show that the U.S. tablet market outside of Apple is dominated by companies that build Windows-based PCs. One report from last week claimed that major PC makers, including HP, Acer and Asus, plan to gradually exit the tablet market in 2012, conceding it to companies that can provide content like Apple, Amazon and Barnes & Noble.



Though the NPD's report doesn't detail specific hardware models, HP's lead in the tablet market was no doubt made possible because of the company's discontinuation and subsequent $99 clearance of its TouchPad beginning in August. HP's decision to ax the webOS-powered TouchPad came only a few months after the hardware hit the market and was met with sluggish sales, forcing the company to take a $100 million charge for unsold inventory at resellers like Best Buy.

In all, non-iPad U.S. tablet sales are said to have brought in $415 million at retail in 2011. When accessories are thrown into the mix, total retail revenue was said to be nearly $700 million.
post #2 of 137
LOL So Apple competitors can move product so long as they sell it for 1/4th the cost to manufacture?
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post #3 of 137
I am still unsure of why people even bought them at $99. I've never seen one and never will cause they didn't even get to where I am but regardless of if it has any value it harks back to the 80's where you bought an empty vessel with a flashing cursor. At least back then though you could learn how to program it and make it do stuff.

Would someone really spend $99 on a web browser and email client that will never get patched or updated? Geez people bawked at having to pay Netscape for a browser.
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post #4 of 137
I assume this article is deliberately written as humor.
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post #5 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by cy_starkman View Post

I am still unsure of why people even bought them at $99. I've never seen one and never will cause they didn't even get to where I am but regardless of if it has any value it harks back to the 80's where you bought an empty vessel with a flashing cursor. At least back then though you could learn howBb to program it and make it do stuff.

Would someone really spend $99 on a web browser and email client that will never get patched or updated? Geez people bawked at having to pay Netscape for a browser.




I agree, that $99 would be better spent on an AppleTV
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post #6 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

LOL So Apple competitors can move product so long as they sell it for 1/4th the cost to manufacture?

All it proves is that there's a market for low cost (low end) tablets. However, until component costs come wayyy down and reference designs are available (very little R&D is required), only companies like Amazon who can sell hardware at a loss (offset with an alternate revenue model) will be able to tap into that market.
 
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post #7 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

LOL So Apple competitors can move product so long as they sell it for 1/4th the cost to manufacture?

Yep....you would be surprised how much product you can move if you give it away.......

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post #8 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by cy_starkman View Post

I am still unsure of why people even bought them at $99. I've never seen one and never will cause they didn't even get to where I am but ....

Collector item for future generations !
post #9 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I assume this article is deliberately written as humor.

It reads like it's kicking HP when they're down. Wired had a good article yesterday on what WebOS has cost the company.

»

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/...bile-touchpad/
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post #10 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I agree, that $99 would be beer spent on an AppleTV

Or even better spent on beer (good beer, of course).
 
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post #11 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post

All it proves is that there's a market for low cost (low end) tablets. However, until component costs come wayyy down and reference designs are available (very little R&D is required), only companies like Amazon who can sell hardware at a loss (offset with an alternate revenue model) will be able to tap into that market.

Sure! I bet there would be even more demand at $49 per unit. The problem is it just isn't feasible and there is no technical path that will make it feasible in the foreseeable future. Even Amazon with their loss-leader Kindle Fire is still 2x the price of the HP Touchpad yet is 1/2 the display area, and pretty much 1/2 of other components, if it even has a counterpart.
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post #12 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I agree, that $99 would be better spent on an AppleTV

Agreed, Digi...if one has an iPhone taking lots of photos and has a flat screen tv...they should have an ATV!

Is it a complete set top box solution? No. But just streaming photos with some easy listening Internet music in the background is worth the price of admission.

Best.
post #13 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

It reads like it's kicking HP when they're down. Wired had a good article yesterday on what WebOS has cost the company.

»

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/...bile-touchpad/

Wow!

I wonder if they had continued on with it would the losses have been greater or did they have any chance at all. They pulled back from the PC exit I wonder if they gave any thought to pulling back on dropping this? One for the history books for sure.
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post #14 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Agreed, Digi...if one has an iPhone taking lots of photos and has a flat screen tv...they should have an ATV!

Is it a complete set top box solution? No. But just streaming photos with some easy listening Internet music in the background is worth the price of admission.

Best.

We cancelled our FIOS tv just keeping the Internet. ATV Plus large HD TV and Netflix and iTunes provide all we need. This with the added advantage of no news.
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post #15 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by cy_starkman View Post

I am still unsure of why people even bought them at $99. I've never seen one and never will cause they didn't even get to where I am but regardless of if it has any value it harks back to the 80's where you bought an empty vessel with a flashing cursor. At least back then though you could learn how to program it and make it do stuff.

Probably that's exactly what people bought these TouchPads for, to slap Android on it and muck around with it. I'm not sure what the current state of Android is on TouchPad hardware, but assuming you would get it to somewhat work, you'd have a pretty decent tablet and a fun environment to dick around with, for an extremely low price. The TouchPad hardware isn't all that bad (much better than a Nook Color for example, which is pretty popular as an Android hacking platform).
post #16 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

This with the added advantage of no news.

Seems risky to not have FOX News telling you which liberal you need to be extra afraid of today.


PS: Does the AppleTV pick up Photosteam and you subscribe to other user's Photostream with guest credentials? It might be nice for someone to see photos taken from the iPhone at some remote location on their AppleTV almost instantly. I can see consumer and business needs for this time of instant push of photos (and videos).


Quote:
Originally Posted by d-range View Post

Probably that's exactly what people bought these TouchPads for, to slap Android on it and muck around with it. I'm not sure what the current state of Android is on TouchPad hardware, but assuming you would get it to somewhat work, you'd have a pretty decent tablet and a fun environment to dick around with, for an extremely low price. The TouchPad hardware isn't all that bad (much better than a Nook Color for example, which is pretty popular as an Android hacking platform).

That's a popular enough geek mod, but I wonder how prevalent it is among TouchPad owners.

»

http://www.google.com/search?q=hp+touchpad+android The TouchPad fire sale and the Kindle Fire look to be great for iPad overall sales and bad for Android tablet vendors, or anyone else trying to carve a niche out of the market.
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post #17 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post

Agreed, Digi...if one has an iPhone taking lots of photos and has a flat screen tv...they should have an ATV!

Is it a complete set top box solution? No. But just streaming photos with some easy listening Internet music in the background is worth the price of admission.

Best.

ATV is great. I spent a couple weeks last Christmas ripping/encoding DVDs into an ATV friendly format. We now have something like 300 movies instantly accessible from any of the three ATVs in the house. Add in the 4,000 or so songs in my library, photos, netflix, and all of the other stuff on it, it's a no-brainer at $99.
post #18 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by cy_starkman View Post

I am still unsure of why people even bought them at $99. I've never seen one and never will cause they didn't even get to where I am but regardless of if it has any value it harks back to the 80's where you bought an empty vessel with a flashing cursor. At least back then though you could learn how to program it and make it do stuff.

Would someone really spend $99 on a web browser and email client that will never get patched or updated? Geez people bawked at having to pay Netscape for a browser.

Let's see. You've never seen one, so you've obviously used one, but that doesn't stop you from criticizing people who might make a different choice than you. Nothing like egotistical people who want to enforce their own criteria on others.

I bought one for my daughter. It's fantastic for her to watch movies while we travel and email and Facebook her friends. For the price, it was a bargain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The NPD Group on Tuesday offered a picture of how tablets that are not Apple's iPad are faring in the market in the U.S., revealing that Hewlett-Packard's $99 fire sale of the failed TouchPad gave it the largest unit share so far in 2011.

HP was the top non-Apple tablet brand for retail sales between January and October of 2011, taking a 17 percent share, according to NPD. That narrowly bested Samsung, which came in second place with 16 percent.

There's the problem with this number. While no one knows the real numbers, rumor had it that HP shipped 250-300,000 to BestBuy alone and most of them were returned and then sold at fire sale. Plus, HP made an additional run of units after the first batch were sold out on sale. Based on a hundred rumors which may or may not have any validity, I'm guessing that HP shipped something like 500-700,000 units, but these numbers would not have been captured because they didn't go through retail channels. Similarly, any other vendors who sold direct would not have been captured.

Plus, of course, it's interesting that they include Kindle and Nook and other eReader sales when trying to make Apple look bad ("Look at how many Kindles were sold!!!"), but leave them out when it makes better click-bait headlines.

Overall, it looks to me like they've only captured about 1/2 of the 'real' tablet sales and there were many millions of dedicated eReaders sold, as well - if you choose to consider them as tablets.
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post #19 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Sure! I bet there would be even more demand at $49 per unit. The problem is it just isn't feasible and there is no technical path that will make it feasible in the foreseeable future. Even Amazon with their loss-leader Kindle Fire is still 2x the price of the HP Touchpad yet is 1/2 the display area, and pretty much 1/2 of other components, if it even has a counterpart.

Well, that's what everyone thought about the PC back in the early 1980s. No one could have imagined what you can get nowadays for less than $500. As component prices come down and less engineering is required to create a tablet, the costs will come down. I'd be willing to bet that in 5 years, there will be a number of tablets around the $100 mark. Not as functional or as easy to use as the iPad, but good enough for the low end market.
 
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post #20 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-range View Post

Probably that's exactly what people bought these TouchPads for, to slap Android on it and muck around with it. I'm not sure what the current state of Android is on TouchPad hardware, but assuming you would get it to somewhat work, you'd have a pretty decent tablet and a fun environment to dick around with, for an extremely low price. The TouchPad hardware isn't all that bad (much better than a Nook Color for example, which is pretty popular as an Android hacking platform).

That's silly. The TouchPad is a very useful tablet and does a lot of things. The only major limitation is lack of apps - so why would you cripple it further by hacking it to run an OS where you can't even be sure if ANY of the apps will work?
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post #21 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

We cancelled our FIOS tv just keeping the Internet. ATV Plus plarge HD TV and Netflix and iTunes provide all we need. This with the added advantage of no news.

very similar to what I've done too....canceled my cable TV...I feel tv should be free if there are commercials or paid a la HBO and no commercials. But not both, $60/mo AND commercials!

Yes, Netflix is one of the great bargains on the internets! I use redbox to watch the occasional relatively new release. Went to the movies to watch "Senna" the guy sitting next me pulled out a cheeseburger, fries and a coke! Sheesh! I left, with a promise to myself not to ever go back!

Can't stand hula, again, too many commercials.

As far as news! I read time, foreign affairs, the local daily paper, USA today , and the weekend editions of the FT, and WSJ...mainly for reviews of books movies and travel suggestions...

Oh and just so the post is on topic...I wouldn't buy an HP tablet...

Best!
post #22 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post

Well, that's what everyone thought about the PC back in the early 1980s. No one could have imagined what you can get nowadays for less than $500. As component prices come down and less engineering is required to create a tablet, the costs will come down. I'd be willing to bet that in 5 years, there will be a number of tablets around the $100 mark. Not as functional or as easy to use as the iPad, but good enough for the low end market.

I don't consider 2 decades foreseeable in computing. Even 5 years is really stretching it, though analysts try and are usually wrong. 5 years ago, in 2006, Nokia and RiM were slated to dominate handset profits and MS dominate mobile OS profits in the foreseeable 5 year future, yet halfway through 2008 Apple became the most profitable handset vendor. We're even seeing a rise in the average cost per handset and service fees because of the shift to consumer-friendly smartphones. I don't think that was predicted in 2006.
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post #23 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

That's silly. The TouchPad is a very useful tablet and does a lot of things. The only major limitation is lack of apps - so why would you cripple it further by hacking it to run an OS where you can't even be sure if ANY of the apps will work?

  1. Control?
  2. Just because?
  3. To see if you can?
  4. My online super-model girlfriend whom I've never met says Android is super awesome?
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post #24 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by cy_starkman View Post

Would someone really spend $99 on a web browser and email client that will never get patched or updated?

Blows your mind, eh?

Does your car get patched or updated? Howsabout your microwave oven? Patched and updated is not anything that the majority of people care about. Hell, they don't even update to Lion!

Patched and updated don't matter to hardly nobody.
post #25 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by umrk_lab View Post

Collector item for future generations !

I don't think people will care.
post #26 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtkane View Post

ATV is great. I spent a couple weeks last Christmas ripping/encoding DVDs into an ATV friendly format. We now have something like 300 movies instantly accessible from any of the three ATVs in the house. Add in the 4,000 or so songs in my library, photos, netflix, and all of the other stuff on it, it's a no-brainer at $99.

Well said, RT. ATV is indeed a, "no brainier..." I do something similar, rent a few movies from redbox, rip (HandBrake) them onto me my iMac, return them, and keep them for future viewing!

Best
post #27 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

HP was the top non-Apple tablet brand for retail sales between January and October of 2011, taking a 17 percent share, according to NPD. That narrowly bested Samsung, which came in second place with 16 percent.

In third was Asus, earning a 10 percent share of the U.S. market, while Motorola and Acer each followed with 9 percent.


None of these guys care about market share.


That being said, It looks to me like each of these guys have a much larger share of the tablet market than Apple has of the Computer market. We know that Apple makes lots of money with single-digit market share. I wonder if these guys can make lots of money too, even if they are not number one.

Apple has proven that market share is not necessary for large profits.
post #28 of 137
Boy, they are really scrapping the bottom of the barrel with this story.
Highest selling, non Apple tablet? LOL!
That's like the new way Hollywood sells box office results: The highest grossing comedy made between 10 and 20 million dollars where its weekend grosses in Florida were done when the temperature was 75 degrees +/- 2 degrees and twelve congolese 10 year olds were given their very first surface to air missile launcher purchased with illegal funds from Goldman Sachs and bought from a Chinese weapons manufacture. Damn!
post #29 of 137
Selling it at a loss does work? LOL
post #30 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

I wonder if these guys can make lots of money too, even if they are not number one.

Nope. Need to create a cost effective, quality product that can grow a brand. Selling your product at a quarter the cost to make it while offering little to no future support which you say is irrelevant to the computer market is kind of the exact opposite of what Apple does.
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post #31 of 137
For $99 without a contract? It is an impulse buy. It is like buying a $399 desktop computer bundle years ago. Since it was not your primary computer, If it breaks, through it a away.
post #32 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

None of these guys care about market share.


That being said, It looks to me like each of these guys have a much larger share of the tablet market than Apple has of the Computer market. We know that Apple makes lots of money with single-digit market share. I wonder if these guys can make lots of money too, even if they are not number one.

Apple has proven that market share is not necessary for large profits.

Great post...but looking at HP's recent mis-steps, it doesn't look like it's in their DNA. Although, it does sound like they have come to the rather sad realization that selling cheap, creaky, plasticky crap computers with no "value added" is a mug's game!

Walmart & McDonald's play the game well...usually if u can figure out a way to sell garbage, u can make money. Bad luck for HP.

I think HP is looking to copy IBM's seemingly successful transition from hardware manufacturing to business services. Just what we need more consultants! Pretty soon we will all be selling insurance to each other!
post #33 of 137
"In all, non-iPad U.S. tablet sales are said to have brought in $415 million at retail in 2011. When accessories are thrown into the mix, total retail revenue was said to be nearly $700 million."

$285 million in accessories! That sounds like a lot to me given only $415 million on tablets themselves.
post #34 of 137
It’s a confusing consumer product field.

Amazon is buying a seat in the computer-tablet market. HP bought a one-time-piece of the market to recoup some of its development losses. Others are giving away their tablets if two mobile phones are purchased. Who knows how that will fair. It is called biding one’s time. Great if you have the coffers to sustain such models.

Apple has the coffers and it could play a similar game, decimated the competition at their own game and run away with the market. But wouldn’t that be viewed as anti-competitive? Or, it could continue as it is doing now, while better profits can be made to further develop its product as development prices and product costs come down. Meanwhile, MicroSoft is gambling on its own version of a tablet yet how it will make any money from its efforts is anyones guess. It sure won’t be from sales of its tablet OS.

In time, the need of sustainable profits in this emerging market will come into play. I doubt the model of razors and blades applies in this market. Meanwhile, Apple’s share of the computer market continues to rise and profits roll in while industrial profits outside of Apple continue to fall. If the next iPad is not just an iteration, it could be game over for the other players and could become the iPod scenario, all over again.

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post #35 of 137
Bought one off of Craigslist for $180. Took it home, set it up, tried for a few hours, sold it on eBay for $210.

Few good UI stuff (Android Honeycomb could take some lessons here) but overall, the Touchpad felt like a half-baked product. I'm sure it would have eventually gotten better if HP was going to actively support it.
post #36 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

None of these guys care about market share.


That being said, It looks to me like each of these guys have a much larger share of the tablet market than Apple has of the Computer market. We know that Apple makes lots of money with single-digit market share. I wonder if these guys can make lots of money too, even if they are not number one.

Apple has proven that market share is not necessary for large profits.

You're misreading the article. The percentages given are for the the non-iPad market. So that HP's "17%" is 17% of the few percent left over after you account for Apple. Far below Apple's PC percentages. And a good chunk of Android tablet sales are coming from fire sale discontinued models, so no, it's not likely they can make any money at all, much less Apple like numbers on these sales.
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post #37 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

And a good chunk of Android tablet sales are coming from fire sale discontinued models, so no, it's not likely they can make any money at all, much less Apple like numbers on these sales.

Two of the top 10 tablets on Amazon are under $100.

»

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers...rsr_e_1_3_last
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post #38 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by dyp View Post

Few good UI stuff (Android Honeycomb could take some lessons here) but overall, the Touchpad felt like a half-baked product. I'm sure it would have eventually gotten better if HP was going to actively support it.

Instead of supporting their own bought and paid for OS, it seems that HP is going to follow the Nokia route and jump in bed with MS. I guess they're taking those surveys to heart that say that people are waiting for a Windows based tab.
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post #39 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhikl View Post

Its a confusing consumer product field.

Yes, and that plays right into Apple's hands as the default choice.


Quote:
If the next iPad is not just an iteration, it could be game over for the other players and could become the iPod scenario, all over again.

The next iPad is going to be great. The next iProduct always is better than anything on the market, and is destined to sell huge numbers.
post #40 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

You're misreading the article. The percentages given are for the the non-iPad market. So that HP's "17%" is 17% of the few percent left over after you account for Apple. Far below Apple's PC percentages. And a good chunk of Android tablet sales are coming from fire sale discontinued models, so no, it's not likely they can make any money at all, much less Apple like numbers on these sales.

I reread the article. I think that you are correct. The stated percentages add up to 52%, which is much larger than the non-Apple share of the tablet market.

These guys ain't gonna make much unless they up their market share. Their volume is now unlikely to cover their fixed costs.
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AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPad › HP leads all 1.2M non-Apple tablets sold in US in 2011