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Apple television expected in mid-2012 as competition is 'scrambling'

post #1 of 260
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Commercial production of Apple's anticipated television set is expected to begin in February at a Sharp plant in Japan, while competing HDTV makers are reportedly desperate to find out just what Apple plans to sell.

Jefferies analyst Peter Misek said in a note to investors this week that Apple is expected to partner with Sharp for TFT-LCD panels for its so-called "iTV." Production is expected to begin in February at the company's Gen 10 Sakai facility in Osaka, Japan, placing the television set in position for a mid-2012 launch.

Apple's expected entrance into the television market is said to have sent other TV makers "scrambling" to identify what the features of the product may be.

"They hope to avoid the fate of other industries and manufacturers who were caught flat footed by Apple," Misek wrote. "Having said that, it appears that mainstream TV manufacturers are likely to be at least 6 to 12 months behind in a best-case scenario."

TV makers are said to be looking at Android as a potential option to counter Apple's anticipated television set. In that scenario, the television market would act much like the current smartphone landscape, with manufacturers making the hardware and Google providing the operating system.

TV makers are said to be looking to Android because they lack the software and cloud capabilities Apple already offers. Earlier reports have also suggested that Apple will implement its proprietary voice recognition service, Siri, to allow controller-free navigation and further differentiate itself from current products on the market.

Rumors of an Apple television set picked up considerable steam with the release of the authorized biography of Steve Jobs. To biographer Walter Isaacson, Jobs hinted at a completely new product that would feature "the simplest user interface you could imagine."



In an interview published last week, Isaacson revealed that before he died, Jobs had three products he wanted to reinvent, with the television being first among them, followed by textbooks and photography. Jobs reportedly felt there was "no reason" for televisions to be as difficult to use as they currently are.

Misek's timeframe for a mid-2012 Apple television launch is slightly more aggressive than some other rumors have suggested. For example, last month The New York Times forecast Apple to announce the product by late 2012, with it going on sale to consumers by 2013.
post #2 of 260
Apple reinvents the TV ....
post #3 of 260
This has been the obvious direction for many years now.

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post #4 of 260
I'm in the market for a flat screen. I'll wait for apple!
post #5 of 260
Great, so when I am in the middle of a program and the kid comes through the living room whining "I wanna watch cartoon network" the TV will change channels?

Or - with the TV something like 15 feet away from me - "Find Mythbusters" - "Find MYTHBUSTERS" - "FIND MYTHBUSTERS" - "FIND MYTH BUSTERS" - oh forget it.
post #6 of 260
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.
― Richard Buckminster Fuller
post #7 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by hankx32 View Post

You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.
― Richard Buckminster Fuller

True dat
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post #8 of 260
I would love to see my Apple remote app work with Siri. People are missing the point with their idiotic rants about having to shout. If you want to search for a T.V. show it will be easier to use Siri than typing it out.

Me: "Find episodes of Breaking Bad."

Siri: "Okay here is a list of Channels Showing Breaking Bad. I've Listed them by time"

Then you tap one if it's currently showing.

Siri works just fine even with other people in the room. I am always demonstrating it at work for people when it comes to looking at weather or putting my work schedule in, then go on to show how Siri can help me find 'God'.
post #9 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

Great, so when I am in the middle of a program and the kid comes through the living room whining "I wanna watch cartoon network" the TV will change channels?

Or - with the TV something like 15 feet away from me - "Find Mythbusters" - "Find MYTHBUSTERS" - "FIND MYTHBUSTERS" - "FIND MYTH BUSTERS" - oh forget it.

Why does the mic have to be (only) on the TV? How about a remote with one 'Siri' button and a mic? Or control through the iPhone/iPad 'Remote' app (together with AirPlay)
post #10 of 260
I really don't buy this rumor at all.

TV isn't that complicated that it needs fixing.

The TV market is saturated and prices are crashing and margins are nearly non existent, it is essentially a commodity market. The kind of market Apple usually stays far away from.

Not to mention the inventory nightmare and how poorly suited Apple stores are for carrying huge physical items like TV.

IMO this is one case where it would make a lot more sense for Apple to simply license Apple TV software for manufacturing partners to include in their TV's.
post #11 of 260
Let's say I've posted a tutorial on YouTube of how to use Siri with the new Apple TV. In the video there is this one clip where I say, "Siri, find the Apple TV Tutorial on You Tube and play it", as part of the tutorial explaining how to use Siri to play a video.

Later, in real time, I'm showing a friend how Siri works on the TV, and I say "Siri, find the Apple TV Tutorial on You Tube and play it". When it gets to the clip where I'm saying the same thing, what happens?

It'll be like looking into two mirrors facing each other! I think the universe would implode, so don't ever try this!
post #12 of 260
New TV with built in iPad/iPhone Tech. Simplified user interface with options to use included remote or voice via Siri.

New section in iTunes for TV Apps. Also compatible with the Apple TV.

PC Free, hang it and turn it on.
Built in FaceTime etc
Could even use visual along with audio commands.

That sort of stuff.
post #13 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

I really don't buy this rumor at all. TV isn't that complicated that it needs fixing.

I doubt Apple could really "re-invent" the TV. They could certainly make a better TV, but it's hard to imagine anything they could do that would disrupt the market like they did with phones.

Where they could make an impact is on the content side and how that interacts with the hardware. There is nothing that exists at the moment that lets you watch what you want to, when you want to, through one simple easy-to-use interface.
post #14 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wings View Post


It'll be like looking into two mirrors facing each other! I think the universe would implode, so don't ever try this!

Recursive function call, is all
post #15 of 260
Apple might first want to fix all loose strings. Battery, iCloud, iWork, ...
post #16 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

I really don't buy this rumor at all.

TV isn't that complicated that it needs fixing.

The TV market is saturated and prices are crashing and margins are nearly non existent, it is essentially a commodity market. The kind of market Apple usually stays far away from.

Not to mention the inventory nightmare and how poorly suited Apple stores are for carrying huge physical items like TV.

IMO this is one case where it would make a lot more sense for Apple to simply license Apple TV software for manufacturing partners to include in their TV's.

I'm fairly technical, and I had a bugger of a time getting the aspect ratio fixed on my neighbor's TV, as that can be controlled by whatever box is plugged into it. You really think remotes for TVs don't need fixing? They are a disaster and far too complex for most people to access anything but the simplest functions. Licensing software doesn't fix either of these issues. I would like to see, however, how Steve "cracked" the problem with cable boxes and the go to market strategy.
post #17 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Where they could make an impact is on the content side and how that interacts with the hardware. There is nothing that exists at the moment that lets you watch what you want to, when you want to, through one simple easy-to-use interface.

Exactly. And you don't need to waste billions of money to enter the absurdly-low-margin TV market to do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz1 View Post

Apple might first want to fix all loose strings. Battery, iCloud, iWork, ...

Please don't.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #18 of 260
I don't buy this rumor. Apple wouldn't be this foolish. This isn't a market they would enter at this point. After all, the latest Apple TV sells ok, but its not a hot seller. Apple isn't going to enter the very crowded HDTV market with a TV that has an Apple TV built in. Also, consider that Apple doesn't even have all the networks on board for streaming content. No way this will happen.
post #19 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

I really don't buy this rumor at all.

TV isn't that complicated that it needs fixing.

What?... Have you tried any of the so-called Smart TVs? The ones from Sony are extremely, extremely complicated and the interface is butt-ugly. LG isn't doing very well, Panasonic neither. Philips, Sharp and Loewe use some kind of website as a Smart TV front page and it is actually quite sad. Samsung's Smart TV platform is the best one but it still sucks. It doesn't even support smooth streaming for video streaming, which basically means that video quality is extremely bad.

And the remotes. They are all ridiculous.

I don't know a single non-techie person that can install a TV without trouble. Very few "normal" people even know how to do a channel search.
post #20 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtapps View Post

I would love to see my Apple remote app work with Siri. People are missing the point with their idiotic rants about having to shout. If you want to search for a T.V. show it will be easier to use Siri than typing it out.

Me: "Find episodes of Breaking Bad."

Siri: "Okay here is a list of Channels Showing Breaking Bad. I've Listed them by time"

Then you tap one if it's currently showing.

Siri works just fine even with other people in the room. I am always demonstrating it at work for people when it comes to looking at weather or putting my work schedule in, then go on to show how Siri can help me find 'God'.

I don't believe Apple, if they want to produce a TV, aim for "TV channels". It will be a connected TV without TV tuners inside. I'm pretty sure about that. If Apple start competing in the cable/satellite market, they have already lost. They need to re-invent the content delivery system and why not use iTunes and then add the App Store in order to get all those streaming services such as Netflix, Hulu, Vudu, CinemaNow on board.
post #21 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

I really don't buy this rumor at all.

TV isn't that complicated that it needs fixing.

The TV market is saturated and prices are crashing and margins are nearly non existent, it is essentially a commodity market. The kind of market Apple usually stays far away from.

Not to mention the inventory nightmare and how poorly suited Apple stores are for carrying huge physical items like TV.

IMO this is one case where it would make a lot more sense for Apple to simply license Apple TV software for manufacturing partners to include in their TV's.

Agree 100%. The TV market is not one where Apple is likely to achieve the same level of success they are used to. They would be better served working on the next product we don't currently have but will want. Think iPod iPhone iPad i??? Most of us already have TV's and an ability to stream to them, and it is going to have to offer a lot more than a slick interface if we are going to pay a 40-50% premium for Apple's version. A smart TV reeks of lazy thinking by Apple and has marginal player written all over it, just like their Apple TV boxes.
post #22 of 260
Remember the headlines about tablet makers waiting to see what Apple were building? And we all know how that went....
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post #23 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightlie View Post

Remember the headlines about tablet makers waiting to see what Apple were building? And we all know how that went....

Except here they'll waste their money on building TVs and then *poof*, Apple comes out with a brand new Apple TV box for $99 with an A6 processor and the best interface in the industry and streaming deals with half of the channels in existence.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

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post #24 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Jefferies analyst Peter Misek said in a note to investors this week that Apple is expected to partner with Sharp for TFT-LCD panels for its so-called "iTV."

I can't imagine many people would pay the Apple premium for an LCD TV just because the remote has Siri functionality.

I would need several features before I paid through the nose for an Apple flat-panel TV. Siri functionality added to the current Apple TV hardware/software package would be a nice bundle. A Jonathon Ives design would be great, too. But I'd also need an insanely great picture.

The only way I see Apple marketing its own TV is if it has some new display technology. Something like this: http://tinyurl.com/86nehtv
post #25 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple's expected entrance into the television market is said to have sent other TV makers "scrambling" to identify what the features of the product may be.

See? That's their problem. Instead, they should be figuring out what the features of the product WILL NOT be.

Apple's genius is not what features they include, but instead, what features they leave out.

Like the iPhone and the iPad, the iTV remote will have only one button. It will turn the set on if it is off, and allow you to scroll through a list (placed on a turning drum) of the content now available.

Press the button twice, and the show comes on. Easy. Everything in a single serial interface. Just like coverflow, or any of Apple's other serial interfaces.

ITV will be easy and simple. Just ONE button. Simple enough that a caveman could do it.
post #26 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

Great, so when I am in the middle of a program and the kid comes through the living room whining "I wanna watch cartoon network" the TV will change channels?

Or - with the TV something like 15 feet away from me - "Find Mythbusters" - "Find MYTHBUSTERS" - "FIND MYTHBUSTERS" - "FIND MYTH BUSTERS" - oh forget it.

You really don't think Apple would have thought of that? I think you are confusing it with something Google would put out.
post #27 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by gettysburg11s View Post

I don't buy this rumor. Apple wouldn't be this foolish. This isn't a market they would enter at this point. After all, the latest Apple TV sells ok, but its not a hot seller. Apple isn't going to enter the very crowded HDTV market with a TV that has an Apple TV built in. Also, consider that Apple doesn't even have all the networks on board for streaming content. No way this will happen.


THAT IS WHAT THEY SAID ABOUT iPHONE !!...LOL
post #28 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

I really don't buy this rumor at all.

TV isn't that complicated that it needs fixing.

I believe you're missing the point. Example: In my living room I have a TV, a Stereo, a Blu-Ray player, a cable box, and probably something else I can't remember. They all have remotes. They cover the top of the coffee table and my wife wants to stand me up against the wall and throw them at me.

In the master bedroom there is a TV and an Apple TV. There are two remotes. If the volume controls were on the Apple Remote, there would be only one remote with a grand total of five buttons. My wife loves it. ONE remote, THREE buttons (plus the other with the volume controls).

Put on your seat belts. Apple is about to do to TV's what they did to phones. Sure, they may have single digits of market share, but they will have more than half of the profits. And, at most FIVE buttons!
post #29 of 260
It doesn't have to compete with the cable companies. In fact, it could partner with some or all. Now- I think it would be soooo difficult to team with cox, Time Warner, Uverse, dish network, directv, Comcast, Fios, etc, etc. BUT- if it had all the chipsets for the cable companies where all the boxes were integrated in the TV (similarly to the new 4S but on a larger scale), that would be revolutionary in its own right.
Content won't happen. Period. One reason- sports (amongst another 1000 reasons). Please everyone, spare me the "I can get NHL and MLB on my apple tv now". Sure- but not your local team- which is what 95% of the people watch.

I don't think it will happen for a while. BUT... If it did- here is my realistic wish list that could be accomplished:
-Built in apple tv with a handful of additional features (such as weather, stocks, Hulu and the Internet- like on PS3 or Wii, but with much better interface).
-Built in Blu-Ray player (this is realistic for a TV...)
-Built in cable box chipsets
-Built in small hard drive for recording programs
-Siri controlled remote

That's it. The key is everything needs to be all in one and built in (the only way Siri would work changing channels). That way Siri will be the selling point. The 2nd is no cables. Just 1 power cord. I also think there shouldn't be apps. That'd be weird. I also think the hard drive should only record and not allow music and movies to be stored. Both of these are for 2 reasons- the apple ecosystem.
-want games? AirPlay from iPhone and iPad.
-want to stream music and movies? Stream from your Mac, iPhone, iPad, or iTunes acct).

Keep them coming back. This could be done- and could charge a $500 premium. How much are cable chips, an A5 or A6, a small hard drive and a Blu ray player? $100? Maybe? Those are the margins apple loves.

2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
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2012 27" iMac i7, 2010 27" iMac i7, 2011 Mac Mini i5
iPad Air, iPad Mini Retina, (2) iPhone 5S, iPod Touch 5
Time Capsule 5, (3) AirPort Express 2, (2) Apple TV 3

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post #30 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontkickthebaby View Post

I can't imagine many people would pay the Apple premium for an LCD TV just because the remote has Siri functionality. ...

Apple premium? What Apple premium?

Is there a "premium" on iPhones or iPads? No.

Is there a "premium" on MacBook Airs? No.

Is there a "premium" on the current Apple TV? No.

Is there really a "premium" on any Apple product these days, for what you get compared to the "competition"? I would say, no. The "Apple premium" argument is a relict from a bygone era. There isn't any reason to expect a "premium" on an Apple TV, if they were to make one.
post #31 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkichline View Post

You really don't think Apple would have thought of that? I think you are confusing it with something Google would put out.

Like face recognition that is defeated with a photo?
post #32 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by umrk_lab View Post

Apple reinvents the TV ....

... and Google copies it and sells it to all other TV manufacturers with Google Commercials ...
... and Microsoft cries about it two years later and copies it and says, "TVs are PCs too!" ...

So, the competition has nothing to worry about.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #33 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Y.M.S.BUSHAN View Post

THAT IS WHAT THEY SAID ABOUT iPHONE !!...LOL

Completely different market. Completely different industry. Completely different margins and business styles.

Having said that, I don't believe Apple will be making an HDTV. Simply a non-hobby Apple TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

... and Google copies it and sells it to all other TV manufacturers with Google Commercials

Google will accuse Apple of copying them. Remember, the Google TV came out FIRST, so anything Apple does is obviously a copy of that.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
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post #34 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Is there really a "premium" on any Apple product these days, for what you get compared to the "competition"? I would say, no. The "Apple premium" argument is a relict from a bygone era. There isn't any reason to expect a "premium" on an Apple TV, if they were to make one.


I could argue about the 15 and 17" MBPs and certainly the low end model of the Mac Pro. By and large tho no, there really isn't an Apple Tax anymore.
post #35 of 260
The only product that does not carry an Apple premium is the iPad. Macs and iPhones are definitely more expensive than what competing venders offer. To think otherwise is to delude yourself. Yes, Apple products are of much higher quality. But that is not an argument that the Apple premium does not exist. It partially explains why it does exist.

And the first reports of a new Apple TV, at least those that followed Mr. Isaacson's book, included speculation of the contraption costing two or three times more than today's LCD models.

Let's face it, if the company does get into the TV market, we know its gonna charge more than what other companies are only because the other companies are losing money on their TVs.

Does Apple lose money on any of its products?
post #36 of 260
We'll know more when they leave one in a bar.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #37 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Apple premium? What Apple premium?

Is there really a "premium" on any Apple product these days, for what you get compared to the "competition"? I would say, no. The "Apple premium" argument is a relict from a bygone era. There isn't any reason to expect a "premium" on an Apple TV, if they were to make one.

There will have to be a big premium if they hope to make money because the TV business has turned into a cutthroat no margin commodity business. Sony and Panasonic have lost Billions selling TVs.

Only the bare panel makers like LG/Samsung seem to be making any money.

Since Apple doesn't make panels they will be more like Sony if they decided to get into this market.
post #38 of 260
Apple will pull this off like they have with 90% of there other products.

Most MFG's would love to have half of Apple's success rate for launching products.

No company in the last decade has been more successful with entering a existing market space and flipping that market space on it's head (Music, Movies, Cloud, Touch, Tablets, Phones, Laptops, All-In-Ones, Media Production and last but not least Mobile Everything).

In all most every tech market Apple has entered the market was in disarray and had no focus or path forward.

It was always put all the coolest new tech on it whether it was useful or not or needed or not.

No one ever could have seen what was coming with the iPod touch, iPhone and iPad.

I remember people were blown away with the rice bowl iMac and the Mac MIni, no one could have imagined what apple was going to release.

Heck remember the org iMac with the translucent case?

MFG's are still producing new products with design a decade + later.

So to say they can't offer anything better or people wont pay for it is short sighted.

This is Apple were are looking at not some Asian copy/cloning company with no real design or R&D.

If there is any company out there that can do this it is Apple and probably will.

We have no idea what they are going to launch but when they do the industry, critics and fans will all say "Of coarse! That is so obvious. Thats were the industry was already going".

Yet the entire industry has no clue today, but Apple will save it tomorrow.
Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but the moments that take your breath away. - GC
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Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but the moments that take your breath away. - GC
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post #39 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtapps View Post

I would love to see my Apple remote app work with Siri. People are missing the point with their idiotic rants about having to shout. If you want to search for a T.V. show it will be easier to use Siri than typing it out.

Me: "Find episodes of Breaking Bad."

Siri: "Okay here is a list of Channels Showing Breaking Bad. I've Listed them by time"

Then you tap one if it's currently showing.

Siri works just fine even with other people in the room. I am always demonstrating it at work for people when it comes to looking at weather or putting my work schedule in, then go on to show how Siri can help me find 'God'.

How would this work with my cable/sat box? Do the cable/sat companies provide API's that allow you to do this?
post #40 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Where they could make an impact is on the content side and how that interacts with the hardware. There is nothing that exists at the moment that lets you watch what you want to, when you want to, through one simple easy-to-use interface.

This is very, very true, and it speaks to what Apple COULD actually do here.

How did they impact the music market? They eliminated the trip to Tower records, where it was hard or impossible to sample songs AND where they could be out of stock on an item.

How could they impact TV? In this case, the Tower Records-like middleman is your network and/or the cable provider, who tell you what you may or may not see. Netflix took a stab in this direction, by offering a wide variety of content on demand. What if Apple put together a package whereby you could get any TV content produced over, say, five years ago on demand? What if that package attracted so many users that every content provider HAD TO get on board, or miss out? What if the embargo were then cut from five years to two?

Netflix was on the right track, but they ran out of capital. Apple should scoop them up on the cheap and follow through with that idea. The TV should also come at a rock-bottom price, so that's not an issue. Apple's profit, in this case, would come via the razor blade model - a charge per episode sold.

Apple should also pay content providers whose content is more than a couple of years old a flat rate, like music royalties for radio use. This would attract all the small fish and create compelling volume. A different deal would have to be cut for newer content however.

The cable companies would fight this, but I don't see how they could win. Apple's bigger than the lot of 'em, and if they blocked Apple's service they'd get in legal hot water with the FCC and so on.

All this assumes there WILL be an AppleTV, which I still doubt. Everything I describe could be done via Apple's add-on box, so I still don't get why they would have to make the entire unit.
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