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Apple television expected in mid-2012 as competition is 'scrambling' - Page 4

post #121 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

Apple has it's little Apple TV streamer with miniscule market share and limited capabilities.

Miniscule marketshare? All signs point to Apple have the largest marketshare since they intoduced the AppleTV in 2007.
What you're talking with HTPCs, game consoles, DVRs, media extenders et al. aren't a single market. It's like lumping all iPhone accessories into the same market simply because they use the 30-pin dock connector.

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post #122 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Why is this so hard to imagine for some of you folks out there?

Read your comments carefully. They are the EXACT same comments I read before the iPhone came out... and the iPad. EXACTLY!

Did Apple... or did they not... just recently, turn a mature industry completely upside down with only 1 (ONE!) presentation?! The iPhone. In an industry that they would NEVER have success in is what we read over and over.
In less than 4 years... it is "The Phone" that every single manufacturer has to match and beat to be called relevant; carriers pay small fortunes just to be able to sell it; and people wait in lines for days to get their hands on one!

iPad is in a market by itself. Everything else is "just a tablet".

Way back when: iPod... and still holding over 80% of the market.

Very recently: the ultra portable notebook... everything else is "just a netbook" Intel and MS be damned!

Geez!

How many times does Apple need to prove that they are the ones to watch? Could they fail? Possibly... but I'm not going to be the fool that bets against them any time soon.

+1 and I'd even go as far to say Europeans should move out of the Bond markets and into AAPL
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post #123 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Miniscule marketshare? All signs point to Apple have the largest marketshare since they intoduced the AppleTV in 2007.
What you're talking with HTPCs, game consoles, DVRs, media extenders et al. aren't a single market. It's like lumping all iPhone accessories into the same market simply because they use the 30-pin dock connector.

Should I change to DigitalclipsX? Is there something you know we don't?

p.s. I'm guessing at the top of the mountain no one else was there.

p.p.s. .... yet the desire for recognition remains grasshopper.
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post #124 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

There is a race, and while no clear winner is emerging, Apple is somewhere off the back of the pack.

DLNA is clearly a winning technology that puts all non Apple products at advantage. Android/Microsoft tablet/devices can move video to Living room screens.

DLNA is clearly winning? What? The most confusing way to exchange media across sometimes incompatible DLNA devices?

Quote:
Xbox is is turning into a full fledged entertainment delivering games, movies, streaming services, internet to near 60 Million living rooms.

Wooo...60M living rooms. Yeah, okay, I'm to go out on a limb here and say that 60M is not an insurmountable early lead for someone like Apple. Or Samsung. Or Sony. Or Google. Or...anyone in this horse race.

Quote:
I am also part of the HTPC crowd and Apple is way behind on this as well. WMC is decent DVR and you have a wide array of Windows HTPCs you can buy or build. Apple really doesn't have a credible HTPC and AFAIK they have no equivalent to Media Center software.

Because the height of the HTPC was what? 2006? Seriously, when I can buy a Roku and a blu-ray player or PS3 why the hell do I want to muck around with a HTPC.

Quote:
If Apples answer is a TV, they have lost it IMO. That is low margin and will be low volume, they will be dead in the living room.

Apple's answer is likely iOS related. And we agree that it's likely widespread adoption of AirPlay.

If they only get Vizio, Samsung and LG aboard that's probably good enough. AirPlay beats the crap out of DLNA in terms of ease of use.
post #125 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Should I change to DigitalclipsX? Is there something you know we don't?

p.s. I'm guessing at the top of the mountain no one else was there.

p.p.s yet the desire for recognition remains grasshopper.

You need 20,000 more posts before you are allow to do that young grasshopper
post #126 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

You need 20,000 more posts before you are allow to do that young grasshopper

Ah, I see wise one

But shouldn't that be 'SolipismXX' then? (bar over X)
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post #127 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

DVD, Blu-Ray, and PayTV

Nah, those are the incumbents destined for disruption. Or so we hope eh?
post #128 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Why pay $1000+ for these features, forcing a person to buy a new TV, instead of just selling a box that provides the features for $100?

Apple wants to sell you an inter-connected eco system. Why sell a $100 box that you plug into a Samsung/Sony/etc TV when you can keep people in the eco system by selling them an Apple Television.
post #129 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

Apple wants to sell you an inter-connected eco system. Why sell a $100 box that you plug into a Samsung/Sony/etc TV when you can keep people in the eco system by selling them an Apple Television.

… Why waste billions of dollars to make televisions when you can make a box that is so good absolutely no one even so much as thinks about using anyone else's software?

Look, Apple already has control over absolutely everything possible in the HDTV realm. It's not hardware fragmentation to let everyone else make the TVs.

Apple knows the resolution. Apple knows the cable to connect the devices. Apple will have control over what hardware pushes the software. It's all taken care of.
post #130 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm6032 View Post

I believe you're missing the point. Example: In my living room I have a TV, a Stereo, a Blu-Ray player, a cable box, and probably something else I can't remember. They all have remotes. They cover the top of the coffee table and my wife wants to stand me up against the wall and throw them at me.

In the master bedroom there is a TV and an Apple TV. There are two remotes. If the volume controls were on the Apple Remote, there would be only one remote with a grand total of five buttons. My wife loves it. ONE remote, THREE buttons (plus the other with the volume controls).

Put on your seat belts. Apple is about to do to TV's what they did to phones. Sure, they may have single digits of market share, but they will have more than half of the profits. And, at most FIVE buttons!

I think they will have something like a Wii controller or maybe you can just point at the screen and make a cursor move and control the TV like that.
post #131 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

… Why waste billions of dollars to make televisions when you can make a box that is so good absolutely no one even so much as things about using anyone else's software?

Look, Apple already has control over absolutely everything possible in the HDTV realm. It's not hardware fragmentation to let everyone else make the TVs.

Apple knows the resolution. Apple knows the cable to connect the devices. Apple will have control over what hardware pushes the software. It's all taken care of.

I just had a vision of a family video conference over two 96" Apple HDTVs on opposites sides of the Planet ... then realized I saw this faked in a 'look at the next century expo' in EPCOT 30 years ago only one was on Mars .
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post #132 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morky View Post

I'm fairly technical, and I had a bugger of a time getting the aspect ratio fixed on my neighbor's TV, as that can be controlled by whatever box is plugged into it. You really think remotes for TVs don't need fixing? They are a disaster and far too complex for most people to access anything but the simplest functions. Licensing software doesn't fix either of these issues. I would like to see, however, how Steve "cracked" the problem with cable boxes and the go to market strategy.

I concur that. I hate almost every aspect of TV interface.
If Apple does to TV what they did to smartphones, it will be a hit.
I surely will buy a bunch of it for our offices. We did so, I remember,
with the iPhone, waiting 9 month in 2006, to replace our lousy
Motorola and Sony Ericsson with the iPhone.
post #133 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post

Apple wants to sell you an inter-connected eco system. Why sell a $100 box that you plug into a Samsung/Sony/etc TV when you can keep people in the eco system by selling them an Apple Television.

I can't see Apple entering this market seriously unless they have a sound end-to-end solution; combining an AppleTV and HDTV isn't it. The problem has always been how Apple's HEC solution will keep you in the Apple ecosystem. Unless they have a way to get you the same content you already have/want it's won't be anything more than a hobby.

In the US video content from iTS is still rather limited and costly, but you being in the UK have less.

Note that I write "HEC solution" because creating a TV doesn't solve anything that an Apple-made A/V receiver solution couldn't solve, sans an embedded FaceTime camera. you plug in the TV's HDMI and power source to the receiver output and all your other HEC appliances into the receiver's input and the AppleTV is becomes the orchestrator without Apple selling a huge device in stores, without limiting the display panel type, cost and size options, which then doesn't limit the user base to just Apple fans.

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post #134 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Wooo...60M living rooms. Yeah, okay, I'm to go out on a limb here and say that 60M is not an insurmountable early lead for someone like Apple. Or Samsung. Or Sony. Or Google. Or...anyone in this horse race.

Vs about 1 Million Apple TVs and it took three years and Apple dropping the price to $99 to get to 1 Million. The would be lucky to sell 100000 TVs/year if they try to go it alone and produce an actual TV set. That would only take them about 600 years to catch up with the Xbox lead.

Quote:
Because the height of the HTPC was what? 2006? Seriously, when I can buy a Roku and a blu-ray player or PS3 why the hell do I want to muck around with a HTPC.

Why mess with streaming when I can just play anything directly on my PC connected to my TV. It isn't for everyone, but it works better than any of the streaming solution I have seen at friends homes.
post #135 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Miniscule marketshare? All signs point to Apple have the largest marketshare since they intoduced the AppleTV in 2007.
What you're talking with HTPCs, game consoles, DVRs, media extenders et al. aren't a single market. It's like lumping all iPhone accessories into the same market simply because they use the 30-pin dock connector.

Do you think that means Apple TV is winning in the market?

Look at best selling tablets:
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-E...nav_e_2_541966

Poor Apple, not even in the top 10, down at 14th place.

You don't have to add anyone's market share. Xbox 360 has sold over 50 Million Units and is fast becoming the Living room platform, by comparison, Apple TV is around 1 Million.
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Edit: To clear any confusion, I was pointing out that Amazon is not a good indicator of "Marketshare" by showing how absurdly wrong they get it on tablets, which I assumed everyone would catch due to how absurd the comparison is and how uncontested Apple's lead in tablets is. Apparently that was too subtle for some.
post #136 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

Do you think that means Apple TV is winning in the market?

Look at best selling tablets:
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-E...nav_e_2_541966

Poor Apple, not even in the top 10, down at 14th place.

You don't have to add anyone's market share. Xbox 360 has sold over 50 Million Units and is fast becoming the Living room platform, by comparison, Apple TV is around 1 Million.

1) The AppleTV has topped this list for years.

2) Most people know not of any other device in this market. Even you have to switch to the game console market to make a comparison.

3) The iPad 2 has 18 different SKUs which dilute it's sales ranking on Amazon as a product.

4) If you're someone who wants or has a game console the XBOX 360 and PS3 are great options, but you were incorrectly placing products in disparate categories to prove a fallacious point. Imagine if Apple were to count all iPads and iPhones in the PMP market simply because they have iPod apps in them, or count the iPod Touch or iPad in the smartphone market simply because you can make Skype calls. I bet you'd have a conniption over that.

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post #137 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontkickthebaby View Post

The only product that does not carry an Apple premium is the iPad. Macs and iPhones are definitely more expensive than what competing venders offer. To think otherwise is to delude yourself. Yes, Apple products are of much higher quality. But that is not an argument that the Apple premium does not exist. It partially explains why it does exist.

And the first reports of a new Apple TV, at least those that followed Mr. Isaacson's book, included speculation of the contraption costing two or three times more than today's LCD models.

Let's face it, if the company does get into the TV market, we know its gonna charge more than what other companies are only because the other companies are losing money on their TVs.

Does Apple lose money on any of its products?

Can you list alternative products from other manufacturers of the same spec and materials for less money. Not a beige box equivalent but like for like.
post #138 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

Do you think that means Apple TV is winning in the market?

Look at best selling tablets:
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-E...nav_e_2_541966

Poor Apple, not even in the top 10, down at 14th place.

You don't have to add anyone's market share. Xbox 360 has sold over 50 Million Units and is fast becoming the Living room platform, by comparison, Apple TV is around 1 Million.

Do you think Xbox is winning in the gaming department? There are over 200 million iOS devices sold compared to 50 million 360's.

You can't argue with those figures can you, it plays games, therefore it's devices must be competing in the same space.

Btw Apple sold a total of 2 million Apple TV 2's when they last reported the figures For the 2nd fiscal quarter of 2011. (that does not include any sales of the first gen devices)
post #139 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

Look at best selling tablets:
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-E...nav_e_2_541966

Poor Apple, not even in the top 10, down at 14th place.

WOW. Just... WOW. What a complete idiot.

Take a REAL look at that list, fool. You think those listings are in order of sales? SOME OF THOSE PRODUCTS HAVE NOT EVEN SHIPPED.

Moron.
post #140 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

Do you think Xbox is winning in the gaming department? There are over 200 million iOS devices sold compared to 50 million 360's.

You can't argue with those figures can you, it plays games, therefore it's devices must be competing in the same space.

With AirPlay epitomizing the "It just Works" philosophy.

Why isn't the XBOX 360 touted as winning when it's slowest selling game console of the bunch. Neck-and neck with the PS3, which are both well behind the Wii?


PS: There are some recent articles about what people are doing while in the living room. The living room has moved from only being in the HEC to the couch, and Apple already owns the living room as a whole with its iPod Touch, iPhone and iPad. What they don't own is the HEC.

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post #141 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Snitch View Post

WOW. Just... WOW. What a complete idiot.

Take a REAL look at that list, fool. You think those listings are in order of sales? SOME OF THOSE PRODUCTS HAVE NOT EVEN SHIPPED.

Woosh, totally going over idiots head.

Dear idiot, I was pointing out how utterly useless Amazon is for tracking this kind of thing after someone else tried to use Amazon as Proof.

post #142 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

Woosh, totally going over idiots head.

Dear idiot, I was pointing out how utterly useless Amazon is for tracking this kind of thing after someone else tried to use Amazon as Proof.


Speaking of going over idiots[sic] head, my use of the Amazon link was pointing out the market category. I even underlined market to make it clear.

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post #143 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

Do you think Xbox is winning in the gaming department? There are over 200 million iOS devices sold compared to 50 million 360's.

You can't argue with those figures can you, it plays games, therefore it's devices must be competing in the same space.

Btw Apple sold a total of 2 million Apple TV 2's when they last reported the figures For the 2nd fiscal quarter of 2011. (that does not include any sales of the first gen devices)

We are talking about the living room/TV battle.

How many iOS devices are living room/TV devices? So 2 or 3 million vs 60 Million Xboxes?

Apple is going to have to make it a heck of lot more compelling if they want to make any dent in the living room.
post #144 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

How many iOS devices are living room [] devices?

All of them.

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post #145 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Speaking of going over idiots[sic] head, my use of the Amazon link was pointing out the market category. I even underlined market to make it clear.

Clear as mud. What is underlining half a word supposed to imply? You talked about top market share then presented the Amazon link with Apple TV on top.

Pretty clear implication that you were using Amazon as some kind of proof of market share.
post #146 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

All of them.

Really? Everyone buys iphones and leaves them hooked up to their HDTVs?

By your twisted logic they are quite dwarfed by a few Billion PCs that must all be living room devices as well.
post #147 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

One button. Just like the iPhone. Just like the iPad. One button.

One button works on the iPhone/iPad because all the other clicks/selections are done on the screen. Are you suggesting these TVs will be touch screen?
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post #148 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

One button works on the iPhone/iPad because all the other clicks/selections are done on the screen. Are you suggesting these TVs will be touch screen?

Why does TV interaction require more than two buttons and a D-pad? The current Apple Remote will suffice, and you can always use an iOS device to get to your content faster.
post #149 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Why does TV interaction require more than two buttons and a D-pad? The current Apple Remote will suffice, and you can always use an iOS device to get to your content faster.

Direct Channel access. A very common thing I do is flip between two channels.

If I am on 65 and want to also check 23, I just type 2, 3 to go to 23, then I can use the "previous channel" button to instantly flip between them.

I also have Direct Source button for my HTPC. A direct closed captioning button. A direct Mute button to kill sound instantly.

2 buttons and D-Pad means putting many useful direct functions into menus and navigating around. That is not an improvement.
post #150 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by nht View Post

Nah, those are the incumbents destined for disruption. Or so we hope eh?

Depends on the definition of "we"

Since I cannot purchase or rent any tv shows via iTunes, the restrictive nature of the Apple only TV that people here are putting forward seems quite silly, and since most of the worlds iTunes stores have the same issue, this would be restricted to a US only device.
post #151 of 260
Samsung wins patents on a blackbox. Apple isn't allowed to sell in the US, UK, or Japan. More on the story @ 11.
post #152 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

Great, so when I am in the middle of a program and the kid comes through the living room whining "I wanna watch cartoon network" the TV will change channels?

Or - with the TV something like 15 feet away from me - "Find Mythbusters" - "Find MYTHBUSTERS" - "FIND MYTHBUSTERS" - "FIND MYTH BUSTERS" - oh forget it.

more than likely you will have to push a button on a remote that would lower the volume and then allow you to speak your command so that extrainious noise would not interfear
post #153 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

Woosh, totally going over idiots head.

Dear idiot, I was pointing out how utterly useless Amazon is for tracking this kind of thing after someone else tried to use Amazon as Proof.


Try this: Complete incompetence on your part, so you go into butt-covering mode by whining "oh, you just didn't GET me 'cause YOU'RE the idiot".

Yeah, that's what happened. Nice clothes, Emperor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

Pretty clear implication that you were using Amazon as some kind of proof of market share.

And now he's after SolipsismX. Everyone's wrong but Snowdog. Got it.
post #154 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Snitch View Post

Try this: Complete incompetence on your part, so you go into butt-covering mode by whining "oh, you just didn't GET me 'cause YOU'RE the idiot".

Hey, you are the nitwit that started in with the personal insults over nothing. Perhaps if you took a second to actually read before jumping the gun you wouldn't appear so clueless.

You quoted me out of context, leaving out the question in the first line that makes it quite clear I don't think you can use Amazon as a market share indicator:
"Do you think that means Apple TV is winning in the market? "

Then I post an example of another segment where Amazon clearly gets it wrong.

I would think it obvious that we all know Apple is #1 in tablets and that Amazon rankings are way off the mark. The big Smiley face could also be a clue.

In deference to the witless. I will use sarcasm tags and maybe a spoiler where I explain it in detail for you.

Still confused?

You appear to be the kind of jerk that justifies some the people who hate Apple fans.
post #155 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by kent909 View Post

Sony would warranty the repair work they did, which was not the solution, but would not fix the real problem because the rest of the TV was no longer under warranty.

Sony customer service is horrible.
post #156 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post

Imagine for a moment, an "Entertainment iMac" with a bigger screen, but minus the things you don't need.


They will put iOS on it. It will be like a big iPod Touch.
post #157 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowdog65 View Post

Do you think that means Apple TV is winning in the market?

Look at best selling tablets:
http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-E...nav_e_2_541966

Poor Apple, not even in the top 10, down at 14th place.

You don't have to add anyone's market share. Xbox 360 has sold over 50 Million Units and is fast becoming the Living room platform, by comparison, Apple TV is around 1 Million.

You can buy iPads at more places than just Amazon...

Plus... Apple has sold over 40 million iPads since April 2010... none of those other tablets even come close.
post #158 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

You can buy iPads at more places than just Amazon...

Plus... Apple has sold over 40 million iPads since April 2010... none of those other tablets even come close.

Yes, I was more pointing out the invalidity of using Amazon as a market share indicator, by showing an absurd result.
post #159 of 260
Yeah sure, Apple.. what will it cost.. In India going by the trend of pricing of apple products.... A kidney...
post #160 of 260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nishanth View Post

Yeah sure, Apple.. what will it cost.. In India going by the trend of pricing of apple products.... A kidney...

The cost of the TV is one thing and of course one has to own other idevices to work in conjunction with it adding more to the cost.
What's going to be the difference between a iTV vs a much less expensive TV with an Apple TV box hooked up to it?
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