Apple television expected in mid-2012 as competition is 'scrambling' - Page 3

Yup!

And you forgot the point where Apple's margins will come from purchasing millions of components and displays, paying up-front billions to build new factories and get even better quality out of their suppliers. Also brings down the prices on all of the components COMBINED for all of their devices.

I would think a 32" and a 42" would satisfy the initial "idea". It's first aimed at the apartment dwellers and the bedrooms/dens of the house. No it wont be the living room movie theater Entertainment Center of the house.... in the beginning. That is until people are clamoring for it, because they're hooked on the one in the bedroom.

Starting price:
32" - 749,00
42" - 899,00

That's with everything built in as someone mentioned above.

Actually, one of the most beautiful combos that I have right now, and have installed for 4 buddies is:

Mac Mini - EyeTV with CI card slot - and ATV2 (hacked).

Now if Apple took the qualities of those 3 devices and dropped them into the innards of a TV... how sweet would that be?! All controlled from whatever iDevice you have (I use my iPad most of the time).

Now add mobile control (recording if need be like with TVTV here in Germany) AND streaming what ever you've recorded, synced through iCloud... well nobody can deny that wouldn't be impressive.

A dream? I'm almost there now really. I basically only need a screen... which I have and is always on AV-4. More you don't need. Basically it's all overlapping tech and connections that I have from the Mini.

Let's turn this around and ask: what is an iMac?

Imagine for a moment, an "Entertainment iMac" with a bigger screen, but minus the things you don't need.

I just don't think this would be too hard for Apple, AND be able to deliver at the prices I mentioned above.

If it's doable... only Apple can make it work. Through their integration of services, engineering know-how... and massive purchasing power. Hell! They can even play the Sony's, Sammi's, LG's, etc. against each other for the best tech at the best price.

IMHO... margins is the least of my or Apple's concerns with this project. It's just gotta be "tight" integration-wise. That's all.

Not sure what you are talking about. I think Magnavox or RCA back in the 60's tried to integrate the phone to the TV, big failure. Gateway in the late 80's or early 90's tried to integrate a computer into a TV.Another big failure. Not sure where you get this swiss army knife idea.

Well now that Google doesn't have anyone on the Apple board to spy on their TV decisions, let's see how much Google can actually help the other TV manufacturers. Or maybe Avon and J.Crew are plotting to join forces to enter the TV market soon?

Actually, I should probably take out the "recording" bit due to the Apple Store, and Americans being able to have such great services like Netflix and Hulu, something we don't here in Germany.

While every pundit likes to take a poke at Apple, that they don't include DVR functionality in the ATV so that they can rent and sell more movies, I actually think it's because of the ease of use and integration factor that motivates Apple. It's not a "huge" amount contributing to the bottom line... but the ease of use IS paramount to the differentiation of their devices. The Eco-System sells more hardware devices, that gives them their real margins and profit.

Unfortunately... I need recording capabilities to watch my ESPN at a decent hour of the day

I agree in general, people have gone too far in claiming things are obsolete like a laptop, computer or good camera. There will be some people that can do that in certain circumstances like if you only do the most basic checking of email and browsing, or only take quick snaps and videos of the kids and don't care about things like ISO, Shutter speed, and aperture.

But I find it hard to justify owning an iPod and smartphone. The iPhone does everything an iPod does without any loss of features. I have no intention of buying an iPod or any music player again.

I thought this exact same thing. Great observations all around, I agree with you.

Hopefully with Full Picture-in-Picture (Full PiP), which requires at least two Digital Terrestrial Television (DTTV or DTT) tuners inside the TV set. After image quality, that is the most important feature of a TV set for many people. Which manufacturers/models deliver that now?

I'm not sure you understood what he said??? He wasn't talking about adding all those things in a TV. It was only a list of things Apple has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they can innovate and re-imagine.

Oh... and why couldn't Facetime, which is essentially a phone, be integrated into a TV today? And please don't tell me that my Mac Mini is not a computer, that allows me to watch TV on the big screen (see my post above).

Just sayin'...

Imagine a big screen HDTV left in a bar

sprint is an investor in clearwire and there is also lightsquared trying to get their network up. wireless bandwidth is in the process of some huge speed increases.

don't need OTA, a TV just has to be able to receive wimax signals and apple can beam itunes content directly to iTV's

Please elaborate. I came from MobileMe and the transition was relatively painless for me. I would much preferred not having two AppleID's but the functionality is pretty good.

I'm not using (yet) all the iCloud function as I'm taking the slow and methodical route. I love that it syncs everything with my iDevices and my friends that have purchased their first iMacs and owning iPhones love that capability as well.

What problems are you having with it?

like you have any f***king clue about what markets are. You're probably the same person that said the iPhone, and iPad would fail because they have "completely different margins and business styles." If Apple is truly going forth with making a tv, it will sell. There is ALWAYS room for improvement. As long as Apple offers something no one else does while making it easy to use and stylish people will flock to it. Apple has never really been the first to do something, just the first do do it right.

No, that isn't the case.

And the rest of your argument falls apart because of that.


Just like if Apple is truly going forth with making a stereo, it will sell.


Absolutely. But it doesn't need to be done as a television proper.

Ever heard of a media room? Here in dfw- I would guess 10% of the new houses have them. I have 110". Why is that crazy? Tons of people with basements have projectors and huge TVs. And guess what- most people have TWO TVs! So while I have 110" in my media room that I use exclusively for blu rays and some sports- I have a 50" in my den that I use for everything else and 80% of my watching. And that's where I'd want an iTV if it existed. Just because you don't have a use for an 80" tv doesn't mean tens of thousands of people dont.

I will not believe this until there's an announcement.

I think when Jobs said he'd finally cracked TV and it was the "simplest interface imaginable" he was referring to AirPlay. Given that Isaacson is notoriously bad with technical context and doesn't give dates for anything, I find this plausible.

Most of the rumours make no sense at all.

Why is this so hard to imagine for some of you folks out there?

Read your comments carefully. They are the EXACT same comments I read before the iPhone came out... and the iPad. EXACTLY!

Did Apple... or did they not... just recently, turn a mature industry completely upside down with only 1 (ONE!) presentation?! The iPhone. In an industry that they would NEVER have success in is what we read over and over.
In less than 4 years... it is "The Phone" that every single manufacturer has to match and beat to be called relevant; carriers pay small fortunes just to be able to sell it; and people wait in lines for days to get their hands on one!

iPad is in a market by itself. Everything else is "just a tablet".

Way back when: iPod... and still holding over 80% of the market.

Very recently: the ultra portable notebook... everything else is "just a netbook" Intel and MS be damned!

Geez!

How many times does Apple need to prove that they are the ones to watch? Could they fail? Possibly... but I'm not going to be the fool that bets against them any time soon.

Consider this post "Liked" +1

Why! Why would anyone restrict themselves to a built in player?


And for the other 50 weeks in the year they will design stuff like the new TV.


I'd buy it.

What is a "television proper"?

To me it's only a dumb-screen, kinda like a normal LCD display, until ya hook it up to (preferably) a Mac. Sadly, most LCDs remain dumb because they have a Winbox shoveling the S.... to 'em.

A dumb LCD display with some ports on it.


Yes, that's exactly it. Everyone has one of those. Most people have more than one of them. Why not, I don't know, sell to THAT market rather than the people buying brand new televisions?

You got it. The Apple TV is the first product in a new class of voice driven products.

Apple will introduce a TV with streaming deals from the studios and a GUI similar to aTV along with Siri remote. And in addition they will sell an Apple branded outdoor HD antenna shaped like a giant Apple logo in order to watch live and local content. Optionally the antenna will also be a high powered 4G cellphone amplifier and wifi data transceiver with bargain, no contract, plans from the carriers for Internet connectivity. Soon you will really be able to cut the cord. Bye-bye cable.

Steve is getting rid of the remote. The Apple IV is voice driven, Siri's built in mic will work just fine,

You got it.

I would love to see how the TV gets reinvented. We all know that Steve was a genius in this area. I can't wait till this is released. On the other hand the shipping for such a large product is gonna be interesting to see. These TV's will take up a large footprint in the Apple facilities.

Siri will be the new tech, after all she is a task completion manager. ex. Siri, connect my Apple TV to Comcast services...

Siri can access all the specs, Siri can configure the interfaces, SMP as we say. (simply a matter of programming)

When Steve said he solved the interface issues, he meant that Siri will solve the interface issues for you. All you do is plug in the cables and turn it on, Siri does the rest.

Unfortunately, if the rumors are true, it will be an LCD. Hopefully for those of us that actually care what the image on the screen looks like, a separate box will be available so it can be attached to a plasma TV.

-kpluck

Sure, and they'll do it by changing the game somehow. But it's not just about the TV hardware that will make it successful but the game changing thing.

So to make this a success they need to disrupt the TV industry. Mkay. How did they disrupt the music industry? It wasn't just the clickwheel on the iPod. How did they disrupt the ebook industry? It wasn't the iBooks software. In both they fundamentally altered the underlying business model. And boy, was amazon pissed they had to adopt the agency model. The music industry was none too pleased either.

So I think the current crop of predictions regarding the TV hardware aren't all that relevant. If you can figure out the business disruption then you can likely figure out the hardware and software to make that happen.

Just adding Siri or embedding a better aTV into a TV set isn't disruptive to the business model.

What is it that Apple is going to do to either circumvent or co-opt Comcast? If you can figure that out, everything else falls into place. The problem is that it's a lot harder to make a substantive prediction on that score. Imagining cool new hardware is easier and more fun.

Maybe you can assume that they'll partner with someone large that needs help against Comcast. Someone in the same boat that AT&T was before the iPhone and willing to make whatever compromises required to Apple to get this off the ground. Maybe someone like Verizon or AT&T that faces stiff cable competition.

Or a sat company facing marginalization without the last mile internet pipes.

Or Clearwire without really much of a future once LTE hits.

Who can they partner with to disrupt the underlying TV business model that generates $32B a year in affiliate fees from cable,sat and verizon to content producers?

Such a move would only hurt the Morons who introduced it.

Anyone who thinks it is a good idea to take a TV and strip out tuner/connections and essentially turn it into a a big integrated screen Apple TV, is clueless, and I shouldn't even have to explain why.

Same goes for the "Apple did it to smartphones, they will do it to TV" crowd. Smartphones are small, high margin, devices in an exploding market, and they were high margin before Apple entered the market. TVs are physically large, low margin in a stagnating market.

There are too many divergent inputs that must stay (Tuner, cable box, Game console, Blu Ray, DVD) for Apple to clean it all up and make any significant difference.

Apple needs to do something because they are losing the battle for the living room. But building actual TVs is not it.

Already most TV's on sale likely have DLNA, which means most non Apple tablets will be able to move video to TV's, putting Apple further behind in the living Room. Google TV will be build into more and more TV's, XBox will be over 60 Million sold.

Apple is just about nowhere with it's hobby Apple TV. What they need to do, is license Airplay Video to any TV maker that wants it. They need a new A5 Apple TV with support for Apps, and they should likely look for partners to build Apple TV into their TVs. That way the partners take the risks, and losses on TV sales, not Apple.

Yep, that was one my conclusions in another thread. But is it game changing enough? I dunno but it would be somewhat disruptive since it would be widespread AND leverages the iOS ecosystem is a huge way.

That gives them instant consoles and TV "channels" anywhere a current iOS device exists (iPad 2, iPhone 4S) with one of these TVs. And they can demand UI concessions from licensees.


I don't think Apple is losing the battle for the living room because you can't really point to anyone and claim they're winning.

Sony? Nope. Not even with the PS3 with Blu-ray, netflix, game console, yada yada yada.
MS? Nope. Not even between the 360, home server and the AT&T Uverse boxes.
Nintendo? Nope.
SA, Moto and other STB makers? Nope.
Google? Heck no.
Samsung? Nope, despite smart TVs, smart BR players, smart whatevers.
Comcast? Nope, despite total control over certain markets, control over the STB, huge leverage over content producers, etc.
TiVO? Nope, their time has come and gone.

If Apple is losing, who's winning?

It will be a TV with Apple TV capabilities and what else?

Siri?

So either Apple is going to entirely scrap the Apple TV, give the Apple TV the same capabilities as the "iTV", or simply continue to support the Apple TV ... but tell the folks who bought the Apple TV that they won't get the same capabilities.

Does that mean I will end up with an orphan product that will will be eventually swept aside?

I hope that this is just a silly rumor because all of these features people are talking about (full iOS capabilities, Siri support, etc) could just be added to the current or next gen Apple TV.

Why pay $1000+ for these features, forcing a person to buy a new TV, instead of just selling a box that provides the features for $100? The TV market is a very low profit business. Would Apple really want to get involved with something like that?

Three things strike me as sad from this report:

1) As pointed out in the article scrambling today to not get caught flatfooted is hopeless. If Apple is releasing a TV in 2012 these guys are already flatfooted because Apple spends years to figure out that disruption AND refine the hell out of the solution. Being only 6 months to a year behind is being optimistic for most of these players.

2) Sony is likely one of these flatfooted guys again. Pretty much every disruption that Apple has made has been in an area where Sony should have been the one to do it and they already had all the pieces in place. iPod. Tell me the maker of the walkman should have been caught flatfooted there. iPhone. They had the Clie PDA, SE phones and walkman in 2007. And now TV. Where the PS3 should be the pinnacle of STB integration for the TV it's not. If Apple disrupts the TV the odds are that Sony has, right now, all the pieces necessary to have done it first.

3) Samsung is going to be the big winner. Of all the companies it seems only Samsung has figured out that you don't need to outrun the bear. You just have to be able to outrun all these other yahoos. Likewise you don't need to out-innovate Apple. You just have to be huge AND nimble enough to be the 2nd to market with volume AND quality and you'll crush Sony, LG and the others.

They aren't scrambling. They are patiently waiting, like Apple once accused MS, with their copiers ready. Samsung will hit the market with a well executed similar TV several months after apple but several months before everyone else. Their strategy has been to be able to quickly design and execute very well on new trends. In other words, they've been concentrating on learning to turn and skate really really fast as opposed to learning how to skate where the puck is going.

Someone else will figure out where the puck is going. Samsung is going to make sure they mob that guy with 3-4 really fast skaters.

Headlines in 2012:

"Its just a big iPad"
"Siri on a television! That won't work"
"FaceTime on a TV? We've had that for decades."
"AppleTV cost is too high for most consumers."
"Just another TV, nothing special"
"What about content?"
"AppleTV? That will never compete with PlayStation or XBox. They are too entrenched!"


Headlines in 2013:

"Its just a big iPad, and that is AWESOME!"
"Siri on AppleTV offers a new paradigm of interaction. No more bulky keypads, AMAZING!"
"Amazingly natural to talk to your family and friends. The "home phone" is back in a big way."
"The user experience justifies the investment!"
"Apple's Genius knows what I like. It is truly BRILLIANT. My favorite shows are delivered on my time and new shows are recommended."
"AppleTV captures 17% market share of game consoles within first year. Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony scramble to catchup."

There is a race, and while no clear winner is emerging, Apple is somewhere off the back of the pack.

DLNA is clearly a winning technology that puts all non Apple products at advantage. Android/Microsoft tablet/devices can move video to Living room screens.

Xbox is is turning into a full fledged entertainment delivering games, movies, streaming services, internet to near 60 Million living rooms.

PS3 is similar to Xbox, but with weaker execution as Sony is messed up trying not to step onto the toes of it's media business.

Google is floundering around this, but they may get it right eventually and they will license to everyone cheap (or free). Third party apps are a go and they will fill gaps.

Apple has it's little Apple TV streamer with miniscule market share and limited capabilities.

I am also part of the HTPC crowd and Apple is way behind on this as well. WMC is decent DVR and you have a wide array of Windows HTPCs you can buy or build. Apple really doesn't have a credible HTPC and AFAIK they have no equivalent to Media Center software.

If Apples answer is a TV, they have lost it IMO. That is low margin and will be low volume, they will be dead in the living room.

"An iPod! A Television! And an Internet communications device!"
"An iPad! A television! Are you getting it?"
"These are not three separate devices, this is one device. And we are calling it iTV!"

DVD, Blu-Ray, and PayTV

Think along these lines for the Apple TV

http://www.bose.com/controller?url=/...9677&src=K9677

One that only gets the BBC.

I would like to see an Apple / Tesla joint project on a car