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North Carolina locals question benefits of Apple's $1 billion server farm - Page 4

post #121 of 289
11/27/11 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

It is indeed. The facts speak for themselves. And the liberals there got what they wanted, so they have no right to whine about any jobs or lack of jobs.

By liberals you mean the college educated elected officials.

Moonshine distilling does not qualify as a legitimate local business and although most are completely tax exempt it is not due to conservative political policies which generally have the support of the uneducated middle class of NC. For most reasonable people the Apple facility represents a net gain for the state's economy.

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post #122 of 289
11/27/11 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

That excessive tax cutting for the rich is part of why I'm inclined to support dropping income tax for a high flat rate sales tax or some combo of the two. Sure the rich will gripe about having to pay 20% sales tax for their new car but come on, it's a $200k car. If you can afford that then you can likely afford the sales tax a few times over.

It's called the fair tax. And anyone who looks at it thinks it's the best (except CPAs who deal specifically with individuals and IRS agents- because they'd be out of work).

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post #123 of 289
11/27/11 at 11:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

By liberals you mean the college educated elected officials.

No. By liberals, I mean that the majority of people there voted for a college educated liberal who promised them jobs. Sucks to be them.
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post #124 of 289
11/27/11 at 11:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

By liberals you mean the college educated elected officials.

Moonshine distilling does not qualify as a legitimate local business and although most are completely tax exempt it is not due to conservative political policies which generally have the support of the uneducated middle class of NC. For most reasonable people the Apple facility represents a net gain for the state's economy.

Because most business owners aren't republicans?
http://www.libertarianrepublican.net...op-by.html?m=1

Or because the top 10%, who, obviously, made their fortunes on moonshine and ignorance, arent republicans either?

Not gonna start a republican vs democrat thing- but your comments are dumb dumb dumby dumb dumb. (said it like that so you'd get it)

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post #125 of 289
11/27/11 at 11:55am
What did the town expect in the first place? When the facility was being built there were jobs galore. Now that it is complete they complain? Apple will be expanding to install a solar complex and that is gonna create jobs as well. You can't please all of the people can you. I say Apple has done nothing wrong here.
An Apple man since 1977
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post #126 of 289
11/27/11 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamC View Post

And it is kind of funny to blame the company for not offering employment when it is not necessary to do so and these people should read Atlas Shrugged. And it damned funny to hear over the BBC someone saying the 1% of the richest should share their wealth with the have nots.

An economy generates wealth. Government policies affect (note affect, not determine) how that wealth is distributed. There is no wealth distribution that is "free" in a complex economy. Examples are minimum wage laws. Health policies also influence what real wealth working people have.

Another example of how government actions affect wealth distribution are the actions of former Fed Chair Alan Greenspan. While an advocate of laissez faire and proponent of Ayn Rand, in the 1990s he was very quick to raise interest rates whenever the unemployment rate fell. He did this in order to "cool off the economy." This effectively insured that workers would never become scarce enough to require an increase in wages. Thus, whatever the profits were for a company, they were never under pressure to raise wages, i.e. sharing the profits with the workers. Thus Americans' real wages shrank for most non-professional workers, while more and more profits went to CEOs and stock holders (i.e. the top 1%) While some of this happened under Clinton, we should remember that Greenspan was first. appointed Federal Reserve chairman by President Ronald Reagan in August 1987.


The the 30+ of Reaganomics (aka Voodoo economics, trickle down theory) has seen a massive transfer of wealth from the majority of Americans to the upper 5% of the population. This is the right-wing corporate social engineering.
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post #127 of 289
11/27/11 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerk36 View Post

I say Apple has done nothing wrong here.

Of course not. Apple hasn't done a single thing here that is worthy of criticism.

Apple doesn't owe North Carolina anything at all. They should be glad that Apple chose their state to build their new server farm in.
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post #128 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

It is indeed. The facts speak for themselves. And the liberals there got what they wanted, so they have no right to whine about any jobs or lack of jobs.

That's like when faux news puts a D in front of a republican reps name when they do something wrong. It's a reliably conservative a place. Here's the 2010 election results for the county. http://www.catawbacountync.gov/depts...210General.pdf
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post #129 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

By liberals you mean the college educated elected officials.

Moonshine distilling does not qualify as a legitimate local business and although most are completely tax exempt it is not due to conservative political policies which generally have the support of the uneducated middle class of NC. For most reasonable people the Apple facility represents a net gain for the state's economy.

The college educated officials seem to be mostly republican.
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post #130 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

No. By liberals, I mean that the majority of people there voted for a college educated liberal who promised them jobs. Sucks to be them.

It is not unreasonable to imagine that education has a lot to do with job satisfaction. If you want to improve jobs you should consider improving education. With Apple moving to NC it can only help to improve the job outlook for the long term. More high tech workers may inspire other high tech businesses to also take advantage of the local tax incentives which in turn brings better teachers, and begins to raise the level of education in the area - rinse and repeat. Eventually you begin to improve both employment opportunities and education in the area, but it doesn't happen overnight. The Apple facility is just the first step.

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post #131 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:14pm
We just had Facebook build an enormous data center next to Prineville, Oregon. It takes about 10 people to run the whole thing. It doesn't bring employment, but it does bring a lot of tax revenue, local business revenue from the contractors that buy and eat things as they're working on it, and it will draw more of the same from the likes of Google, Apple, etc.
Just because it's not a HUGE positive doesn't make it a negative.
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post #132 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenzo View Post

I live in Newton. Next town over from Maiden. We are all not furniture builders here. I'm an IT pro who works for a well established company.The skilled laborers for the tech industry are here also. Sure it isn't silicon valley here but the tech folks are here. And i can say that when Apple built the data center, they did not post any job openings here. I checked. When they built the building, alot was outsourced to the lowest bidder. Not from this area. I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing but...
Get your facts straight and not just speculate.

BTW....it sure does look like Fort Knox when you drive by it though.....They made sure you can't even see it from the highway anymore..

you can also read this. Hickory paper next town over.

http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/busine...den-ar-441096/

That local newspaper article appears to be rational, considered and objective...

Seems that it might have a been a better source for the AI article... than the Washington Post article where 3 semi-negative (or neutral) opinions were conflated into a negative article.


Hickory Daily Record: "Apple data center brings 300 jobs to Maiden"

vs

Washington Post: "Cloud centers bring high-tech flash but not many jobs to beaten-down towns"


Interesting to note how North Carolina unemployment compares with other states:

List of U.S. states by unemployment rate



Mmmm... We here in California certainly could use that additional $4.6 million annual tax revenue!

"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #133 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamC View Post

Hate to say this firstly goods assembled in the US is uncompetitive otherwise they wouldn't have use Asian companies to do so. Secondly the actions by unions will make many think twice to set up shops in the US.

And it is kind of funny to blame the company for not offering employment when it is not necessary to do so and these people should read Atlas Shrugged. And it damned funny to hear over the BBC someone saying the 1% of the richest should share their wealth with the have nots.

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year olds life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
--John Rogers

I believe I posted this here before but here it is again.
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post #134 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post

Here's the 2010 election results for the county.

2008 - North Carolina - Presidential Election results

The majority chose a liberal, just like I said.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/re...-carolina.html

Also take a look at their unemployment statistics. For some strange and mysterious reason, there is a sudden and drastic rise right around that same time, and it's only gotten higher and higher.
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post #135 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:16pm
With all due respect to N.C. citizens, what they are experiencing is not the extreme of tough. This is not to belittle the economic and emotional toll of the recession and the demoralizing effect of unemployment, but there are various parts of the US going through worse times, not to mention numerous regions in Asia, Africa, Middle East, ... Most of these regions have never seen good times, never mind worsening blows from a recession.
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post #136 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

2008 - North Carolina - Presidential Election results

The majority chose a liberal, just like I said.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/re...-carolina.html

Also take a look at their unemployment statistics. For some strange and mysterious reason, there is a sudden and drastic rise right around that same time, and it's only gotten higher and higher.

So the Dems could cause unemployment that fast? Impressive.
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post #137 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post

There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year olds life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
--John Rogers

I believe I posted this here before but here it is again.

Don't for get the Ents.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #138 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The Apple facility is just the first step.

Hi tech companies like Apple, Google, Amazon, Facebook etc. do not create many jobs compared to big corporations of the past. Anybody looking for these kind of companies to put many people to work doesn't really know what they're talking about.

To put this in context, the Economist recently noted that Apple, Amazon, and Google together employ 113,000 people--which is less than 1/3rd as many as a single American success-story from the prior generation, GM, employed in 1980.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...#ixzz1ewHXtXBA
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post #139 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post

The college educated officials seem to be mostly republican.

Is that really true? I would be interested in seeing a reliable source for that. If true, it's fascinating. I have seen various analysis (wish I could find a source to cite on instant notice) that regions with a majority of college-educated citizens tend to vote liberal more often. That of course is a slightly different but related issue to what you're referring to. Nonetheless, I am interested in seeing a source for your info if possible.
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post #140 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

2008 - North Carolina - Presidential Election results

The majority chose a liberal, just like I said.

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/re...-carolina.html

Also take a look at their unemployment statistics. For some strange and mysterious reason, there is a sudden and drastic rise right around that same time, and it's only gotten higher and higher.

The president didn't broker this deal, local conservatives did.

Wow unemployment went up right when the economy fell of a cliff. Shocking.
Your reasoning is specious.
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post #141 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Hi tech companies like Apple, Google, Amazon, Facebook etc. do not create many jobs compared to big corporations of the past. Anybody looking for these kind of companies to put many people to work doesn't really know what they're talking about.

To put this in context, the Economist recently noted that Apple, Amazon, and Google together employ 113,000 people--which is less than 1/3rd as many as a single American success-story from the prior generation, GM, employed in 1980.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...#ixzz1ewHXtXBA

To that point, there was an op ed by Andy Grove (in the NY Times?) a few years ago painting a sobering but convincing picture - for every iPod or iPhone from American companies like Apple, 10 times more jobs (sometimes 100 times?) are created elsewhere than in the US. So American innovation often generates more employment abroad than at home. Americans either have to accept structural unemployment, and develop policies to cope with it, or reinvent manufacturing so that it is sustainable domestically.
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post #142 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:25pm
Bottom line:

America's pastime used to be baseball.

Now it's bitching. Bitching and moaning about everything and anything. Even now... I'm bitching about people bitching.

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post #143 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:27pm
Negative Apple news? Me so surprised!

It's not a bad thing ya'll. How about they bring in more people to the Apple server farm and then pair one of the high-paying employees with a local? WIN WIN WIN!
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post #144 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Is that really true? I would be interested in seeing a reliable source for that. If true, it's fascinating. I have seen various analysis (wish I could find a source to cite on instant notice) that regions with a majority of college-educated citizens tend to vote liberal more often. That of course is a slightly different but related issue to what you're referring to. Nonetheless, I am interested in seeing a source for your info if possible.

http://www.catawbacountync.gov/depts...210General.pdf

Most of the republicans got a 2-1 voting preference over the dems.
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post #145 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Bottom line:

America's pastime used to be baseball.

Now it's bitching. Bitching and moaning about everything and anything. Even now... I'm bitching about people bitching.

I'm bitching about you bitching about people bitching about other people bitching.
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post #146 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by main1event View Post

Did those people ever stop to consider the tax breaks that city receives? Sure it might be 50 jobs but its probably high paying jobs for that area. I'd rather see 50 high paying jobs than 200 McDonalds paying jobs.

A =/ B. Didn't a guy in the OP say that he only knows furniture? Unless Apple plans on training.
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post #147 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:30pm
Boy, I guess some poor people have the self importance to ask for a thank-you in addition to new developments in their town. They would prefer to have no development in their area I guess (many of my friends agree with this). Especially the friends who do not contribute to the economy in any way. They believe life without corporations would be heaven on Earth. Truth is, it would involve a lot of farming... subsistence farming. This way of life is still available in other lands, such as Cambodia.
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post #148 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

I agree that it makes no sense for Apple to hire additional people they don't need. However, as it often happens, local politicians granted Apple ridiculous tax breaks in exchange for... what, exactly?

This is the same old story that has played itself out at both the local and national level. Politicians and their corporate sponsors push the idea that businesses must be given tax breaks in order to create more jobs, except there's absolutely no strings attached that they actually do so, so it's nothing but corporate welfare. When new jobs are actually created they're usually small in number, low paying and in no way tied to whatever tax breaks the corporation received.

Considering Apple is one of (if not the) largest and most profitable companies on the planet, you have to wonder why they need any tax breaks or loopholes when there's no payback in exchange. Now I'm a huge Apple fan and I don't think they're doing anything wrong - as a business they're trying to minimize costs and maximize profits - but this is a fine example of why this tired old story needs to be put to rest and corporate welfare needs to end immediately.

In exchange for millions of dollars in future tax revenue. It's simple business... the city/state with the best prices/benefits usually wins. The city/state wins because of all the tax revenue they can extract from Apple, even if it isn't the full amount--it's more than they were getting before
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post #149 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Don't for get the Ents.

Haruuummm...I shshshaannnt
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post #150 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

Liberals in NC? That's like Eskimos in Hawaii.

Everyone turns into a liberal when they feel like a windfall is available for the taking if they whine for it enough.
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post #151 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Hi tech companies like Apple, Google, Amazon, Facebook etc. do not create many jobs compared to big corporations of the past. Anybody looking for these kind of companies to put many people to work doesn't really know what they're talking about.

To put this in context, the Economist recently noted that Apple, Amazon, and Google together employ 113,000 people--which is less than 1/3rd as many as a single American success-story from the prior generation, GM, employed in 1980.

How many people worked on building the great wall of China or the pyramids? Millions! Things must have been much better back then since there were more jobs... well for the Pharaohs and the Emperors at least.

By the way, Foxconn employs well over a million people who are making tablets and things for those companies you mentioned. So yes, they hire fewer people directly than GM but indirectly many more.

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post #152 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

There are probably 50 more gardening, maintenance and janitorial jobs that are not Apple employees. Of course those duties are provided by a crew of Latin American immigrants.

Yes, mstone - we should only employ whites, right?
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post #153 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Yes, mstone - we should only employ whites, right?

Your words not mine. I said no such thing. That is just the way things have turned out for better or worse in the low tech service industries. Although we should hire only US citizens.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #154 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post

The college educated officials seem to be mostly republican.

That doesn't mean they're not liberal!
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post #155 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Hi tech companies like Apple, Google, Amazon, Facebook etc. do not create many jobs compared to big corporations of the past. Anybody looking for these kind of companies to put many people to work doesn't really know what they're talking about.

To put this in context, the Economist recently noted that Apple, Amazon, and Google together employ 113,000 people--which is less than 1/3rd as many as a single American success-story from the prior generation, GM, employed in 1980.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...#ixzz1ewHXtXBA

I remember when being able to produce more output with less inputs was considered highly productive - generally a good thing. My how things have changed.
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post #156 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:53pm
[input funny joke that doesn't deal with religion or politics]

"Goodbyeee…"

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"Goodbyeee…"

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post #157 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

[input funny joke that doesn't deal with religion or politics]

Wombat Sex.
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post #158 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:58pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brj2UkUPjCI

They took our jerrrrbs!!! why do people think they are entitled to handouts & job offers if they aren't necessarily qualified? Answers, they aren't ....The End
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post #159 of 289
11/27/11 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

[input funny joke that doesn't deal with religion or politics]

I liked your earlier version of this post. That could have kept us busy until the new topics come out Monday morning. You ruined at least another 5 pages worth of ranting with that retraction.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #160 of 289
11/27/11 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Bottom line:

America's pastime used to be baseball.

Now it's bitching. Bitching and moaning about everything and anything. Even now... I'm bitching about people bitching.


Thats GOLD!!! Haha, So Americans are sounding like the British now? the circle is now complete
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