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North Carolina locals question benefits of Apple's $1 billion server farm - Page 2

post #41 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

When a retailer discounts its products, the intended result is an increase in sales, thereby making the promotion a productive investment.

But exactly how did the state or local community benefit from having Apple build their data center there? If Apple only created a few new jobs and if there were no other strings attached - for example helping to train/educate locals for high tech jobs - then what exactly did the community get in return for the $46 million tax breaks and loss of revenue from the 50% reduction in property taxes and 85% reduction in personal taxes that will only place increased strains on already struggling services such as education ?

The land sale.
The yearly taxes on said land.
The cost of electricity.
The construction jobs created for the previous and current/future data center.
All the costs associated with the people now living in that town to maintain the data center operations.

Exactly where is the town not gaining from Apple's presence and how exactly is it not like a retailer reducing the cost of an item to encourage a customer into their area. Hint: It's the exact same economic principle that prevents a competitor from getting the business.

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post #42 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

The real issue here has nothing to do with apple. The real issue is that state and local governments fall all over themselves to give tax breaks to companies without really thinking about whether the benefits outweigh the costs. Another example is how cities fall all over themselves to build stadiums for sports franchises. I think it's largely a case of little people trying to feel big.

I don't know enough about the details here to know whether the NC folks made a mistake or not, but those sound like some pretty big tax cuts for a very small number of jobs. Again -- not apples fault -- they were honest about the number of jobs. The problem is a culture where everyone reflexively rolls over for big business.

What the HECK are you talking about?

How is anyone "rolling over" for anyone? So North Carolina says if you build that data center here we'll give a 50% tax break. Or 60% Or even 100%. That is still 50 good jobs that you otherwise wouldn't have. So your choice is 50 jobs or *nothing* and the smart move is to choose *nothing* so you can say you didn't "roll over"?

Unbelievable.
post #43 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

Unless those 50 new jobs went to locals and paid about $1M each, I don't see how they offset the $46 million in tax breaks, not to mention the huge cuts in personal and property taxes, that will impact the residents of the town and state.

and how much was the town getting in taxes from Donnie and Kathy Fulbright?
Even if Apple did not hire any locals, there are now 50 or more tax paying residents in the town or surrounding area than there were before Donnie and Kathy Fulbright sold the land.

The tax breaks are over many years, not one year. Even if Apple paid zero taxes, there is a net benefit to the town simply from the construction of the building and those 50 new employees that most likely have moved there.

The town has not said that Apple is costing them money. They are just disappointed that it was not the town's savior. They expected some kind of major change in their lifestyle and they did not get it. They are not worse off for the data center being there.
post #44 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugzy View Post

How many jobs were there when Donnie and Kathy Fulbright lived on that land?
How many jobs were there after Apple moved in?

Succinctly stated, but I don't think Apple should pay anything in taxes until the town lifts their ban on dancing.

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post #45 of 289
I suppose that building just built itself....
post #46 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman0 View Post

I suppose that building just built itself....

All construction materials and equipment were airdropped in and then slingshotted out at great expense to Apple from other counties to avoid any revenue from touching the town.

edit: And jragosta comes in Mighty Eagle the thread.

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post #47 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

You are telling me 50 jobs that is all Apple offered. A dam disgrace indeed. This state is high in unemployment to begin with.Tim Cook and Apple better get their act together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisrayb View Post

3400 people in the town.
A potiential for 25-250 jobs.
Unemployment rate at 13%

Worst case scenario 25 jobs brings unemployment down .7%
50 jobs brings it down 1.5%
250 jobs brings it down 7.4%
Plus tax money to the town.

I can see why some of these people think that data jobs from Apple isn't for them and why their unemployment rate is so high. Basic math and logic must be hard to come by in this small town...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wings View Post

"According to the report, local authorities have discounted property taxes by 50 percent and personal taxes by 85 percent."

If THAT'S not a major benefit to everyone there, I don't know what is. Please Apple, come build a plant in my town. I wouldn't care if I work there or not if it means I'll get my property taxes chopped in half.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andysol View Post

Idiotic spending all the way around.

$1.7 million for an acre? Wow- that's Hawaii pricing (although that's a happy meal for apple).

North Carolina are the dumbest. $4.6 mil a year for 10 years for 50 jobs? Maybe (at most) 300? Wow...

Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

When a retailer discounts its products, the intended result is an increase in sales, thereby making the promotion a productive investment.

But exactly how did the state or local community benefit from having Apple build their data center there? If Apple only created a few new jobs and if there were no other strings attached - for example helping to train/educate locals for high tech jobs - then what exactly did the community get in return for the $46 million tax breaks and loss of revenue from the 50% reduction in property taxes and 85% reduction in personal taxes that will only place increased strains on already struggling services such as education ?

Amazing how lousy the thinking processes are here.

OK, let's look at what the consumers receive:
- Vast increase in their property values ($1.7 M for an acre? Obviously some one has no right to complain). Even the people who didn't sell their land to Apple at extortionate prices benefits from more job opportunities.

- Jobs. 50 direct jobs and up to 250 indirect jobs in a community that size is important. That probably makes Apple the largest employer. This is especially true in an area with such high unemployment rates (btw, Chris' figures are wrong because s/he assumes that all 3400 people are employable. You could probably estimate that about 1/2 of the people are employable, so the impact on unemployment would double. However, some of the people will come from neighboring towns, so that town won't get all the benefit)

- Job quality. In that area of NC, there aren't a lot of great jobs. These will be some of the best jobs around - and will give the local kids something to work toward.

- Taxes. While people focus on the tax breaks, they miss the fact that Apple will still be paying 50% of the property tax and 15% of the personal taxes for 10 years (and then 100% after that). Since Apple's entry into the area greatly increased the property value (the $1 B investment may be more than the entire county was worth before Apple came along), even 50% of the property taxes will be substantial. The city and county will benefit greatly from this so it's not a corporate handout. Rather, they agreed that they would take less than the full amount under the principle that half of a big number is better than 100% of zero. So instead of focusing on the $46 M in tax 'breaks', one could just as easily cite the $46 M in extra tax revenue that they'll be receiving.
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post #48 of 289
Maybe Apple could start making the furniture for the Apple Stores at that site. At least the locals would have those skills one would think.
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post #49 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Amazing how lousy the thinking processes are here.

OK, let's look at what the consumers receive:
- Vast increase in their property values ($1.7 M for an acre? Obviously some one has no right to complain). Even the people who didn't sell their land to Apple at extortionate prices benefits from more job opportunities.

- Jobs. 50 direct jobs and up to 250 indirect jobs in a community that size is important. That probably makes Apple the largest employer. This is especially true in an area with such high unemployment rates (btw, Chris' figures are wrong because s/he assumes that all 3400 people are employable. You could probably estimate that about 1/2 of the people are employable, so the impact on unemployment would double. However, some of the people will come from neighboring towns, so that town won't get all the benefit)

- Job quality. In that area of NC, there aren't a lot of great jobs. These will be some of the best jobs around - and will give the local kids something to work toward.

- Taxes. While people focus on the tax breaks, they miss the fact that Apple will still be paying 50% of the property tax and 15% of the personal taxes for 10 years (and then 100% after that). Since Apple's entry into the area greatly increased the property value (the $1 B investment may be more than the entire county was worth before Apple came along), even 50% of the property taxes will be substantial. The city and county will benefit greatly from this so it's not a corporate handout. Rather, they agreed that they would take less than the full amount under the principle that half of a big number is better than 100% of zero. So instead of focusing on the $46 M in tax 'breaks', one could just as easily cite the $46 M in extra tax revenue that they'll be receiving.

A good assement I'd think. I may be wrong but I assume the local economy also had some income from the building of the plant, albeit a limited time thing. It's hard to imagine Apple brought in labor and machinery from another state.
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post #50 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

The land sale.
The yearly taxes on said land.
The cost of electricity.
The construction jobs created for the previous and current/future data center.
All the costs associated with the people now living in that town to maintain the data center operations.

Exactly where is the town not gaining from Apple's presence and how exactly is it not like a retailer reducing the cost of an item to encourage a customer into their area. Hint: It's the exact same economic principle that prevents a competitor from getting the business.


The land sale is a one time deal, and only benefitted a few landowners.

Do you have any data to show that the yearly taxes on the land will exceed the amount that would have been paid by the former landowners, and if so that this increase offsets all the tax breaks?

How does the sale of electricity benefit the residents of the town or state? If anything, I'd think it would drive up the cost of energy.

The construction jobs are, again, a one time deal.

The data center is practically autonomous, with only 50 employees. There's no massive hiring of locals nor the local business benefits of serving an army of data center workers since there's only 50 employees.

At what point do we consider the downsides of the tax breaks on education and social services that benefit all the residents of the town and state?
post #51 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

The land sale is a one time deal, and only benefitted a few landowners.

Do you have any data to show that the yearly taxes on the land will exceed the amount that would have been paid by the former landowners, and if so that this increase offsets all the tax breaks?

How does the sale of electricity benefit the residents of the town or state? If anything, I'd think it would drive up the cost of energy.

The construction jobs are, again, a one time deal.

The data center is practically autonomous, with only 50 employees. There's no massive hiring of locals nor the local business benefits of serving an army of data center workers since there's only 50 employees.

1) One time deal or not, they benefit the local economy when without Apple's presence they wouldn't, yet you claim otherwise. Think of the tax break as a "coupon" good for 10 years at their store/town, but Apple is still paying a dozens of millions there instead of taking their business elsewhere.

2) Mugzy and jragosta have already hit you high and low better than I ever could so reread their comments instead of replying to me.

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post #52 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattjumbo View Post

What the HECK are you talking about?

How is anyone "rolling over" for anyone? So North Carolina says if you build that data center here we'll give a 50% tax break. Or 60% Or even 100%. That is still 50 good jobs that you otherwise wouldn't have. So your choice is 50 jobs or *nothing* and the smart move is to choose *nothing* so you can say you didn't "roll over"?

Unbelievable.

The tax break is not "free". It comes at the expense of government services such as education, at a time when education and other vital services are under the worst strain in almost a century. Where is the equation showing that the lost tax revenue is made up for, over the long term, by actual benefits?
post #53 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugzy View Post

How many jobs were there when Donnie and Kathy Fulbright lived on that land?
How many jobs were there after Apple moved in?

OK, so there's 50 net new jobs (assuming nobody somehow lost a job as a result of this.) What is the value of those jobs compared to the strain on tax-supported services impacting all residents? If someone can show that the actual concrete benefits (not mythical or "possible future benefits") outweigh the loss of tax revenue, then I'd say the issue is closed and we can all go home. Otherwise, you're just looking at one side of the equation.
post #54 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

You are telling me 50 jobs that is all Apple offered. A dam disgrace indeed. This state is high in unemployment to begin with.Tim Cook and Apple better get their act together.

If all the unemployed people are qualified for the jobs required at the data center, then I'm SURE Apple would have hired more of them. Like the article says, "Those jobs aren't for us. All we know is furniture." I'm sure those furniture people benefited in that Apple needs to furnish their data center. After that, the benefit is gone until new furniture is needed.

So for the town to really benefit, the people need to learn how to work those jobs. That's their job, not Apple's. Apple hires those who qualify for the job. That's what they need to do and that's their rights.
post #55 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

The tax break is not "free". It comes at the expense of government services such as education, at a time when education and other vital services are under the worst strain in almost a century. Where is the equation showing that the lost tax revenue is made up for, over the long term, by actual benefits?

If Apple's there to pay 25% tax, that's 25% of money going into the state. If Apple isn't there, the state gets NOTHING from Tax. The state doesn't PAY Apple taxes. Therefore, your argument that it comes at government services is wrong as the supposed services doesn't lose any money simply from Apple being there.
post #56 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Maybe Apple could start making the furniture for the Apple Stores at that site. At least the locals would have those skills one would think.

I picture the furniture looking something like this

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post #57 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by APPLEBIRD View Post

Losers :-))

Who - the people who quote the entire article and then offer a one-word retort?
post #58 of 289
jragosta wrote:

"OK, let's look at what the consumers receive:
- Vast increase in their property values ($1.7 M for an acre? Even the people who didn't sell their land to Apple at extortionate prices benefits from more job opportunities."

What makes you think that Apple building this data center staffed by a massive team of 50 will necessarily act as a magnet for other businesses that would in turn pay $1.7M an acre to other land owners in the area? How do these short term land sales benefit the community and the state over the long term?

"50 direct jobs and up to 250 indirect jobs in a community that size is important. This is especially true in an area with such high unemployment rates."

The 50 direct jobs probably didn't go to any locals and where are these 250 "indirect jobs" defined? How will a data center, that practically runs itself with just 50 technically trained employees, benefit local unemployment rates when locals are neither qualified for, being hired for, nor trained for these jobs?

"Job quality. In that area of NC, there aren't a lot of great jobs. These will be some of the best jobs around - and will give the local kids something to work toward. "

The place staffs 50. It's a data center. How does this equate to "a lot of great jobs" in the future? How will local kids work towards these nonexistent future jobs when their schools are strapped for cash as a result of the tax cuts?

"Taxes. While people focus on the tax breaks, they miss the fact that Apple will still be paying 50% of the property tax and 15% of the personal taxes for 10 years "

As opposed to the 100% of property taxes that would be paid by the former owners?
post #59 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

The tax break is not "free". It comes at the expense of government services such as education, at a time when education and other vital services are under the worst strain in almost a century. Where is the equation showing that the lost tax revenue is made up for, over the long term, by actual benefits?

Why don't you contact the town directly for the answers to these questions?
post #60 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by main1event View Post

Did those people ever stop to consider the tax breaks that city receives? Sure it might be 50 jobs but its probably high paying jobs for that area. I'd rather see 50 high paying jobs than 200 McDonalds paying jobs.

According to the article there are 150 ancillary personnel as well so that's an extra 200 people that have to live, eat and shop in the area.

It's not much, but as many have said already, what's the logic of making up fake jobs use so people will have one? The only fault here would be if Apple implied that there were going to be thousands of jobs and then delivered only the 200. I'm pretty sure without even looking into it that this wouldn't be the case however.
post #61 of 289
What I didn't see mentioned, unless I missed it, was a comparison between Apple's 500,000 sq. ft. data center in NC and other companies' data centers. How many people are employed at other data centers that are owned and operated by Microsoft, Google, Facebook, etc. even if their data centers are smaller than Apple's in NC? I don't get the impression that data centers need a lot of workers.

I wouldn't be surprised if Apple did employ say 200-300 workers at their NC data center, someone would be complaining about the increased traffic to and from the center compared to what the traffic used to be like in their quiet, peaceful town before the center was built.
post #62 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeromeus View Post

If all the unemployed people are qualified for the jobs required at the data center, then I'm SURE Apple would have hired more of them. Like the article says, "Those jobs aren't for us. All we know is furniture." I'm sure those furniture people benefited in that Apple needs to furnish their data center. After that, the benefit is gone until new furniture is needed.

So for the town to really benefit, the people need to learn how to work those jobs. That's their job, not Apple's. Apple hires those who qualify for the job. That's what they need to do and that's their rights.

Even if all the local residents had engineering degrees from MIT, Apple would not have hired any more people. They hired the staff that was needed. A better educated/trained local population would have meant that some or all the the meager 50 positions might have gone to these locals, that's all.

And how are the local kids' aspirations for high tech jobs going to be helped by an underfunded education system continuously bled by tax cuts?

Apple is doing nothing wrong here. They're making strategic business investments while doing their best to minimize costs and maximize profitability - which is what they, as a corporation, are supposed to be doing. On the other hand, local politicians are supposed to be looking out for the interests of their constituents (and not just a handful of lucky land owners). They're supposed to be making wise strategic decisions that benefit the local community rather than just a handful of businesspeople.
post #63 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

You are telling me 50 jobs that is all Apple offered. A dam disgrace indeed. This state is high in unemployment to begin with.Tim Cook and Apple better get their act together.

50 jobs is 50 more than there were before. That number of jobs in a small town is proportionally much higher than if it was a small city. Besides, Apple is a business not an unemployment mitigator. Additionally, you don't know what else they may want to do there in the future. As for the residents, if they want jobs there, they had better go back to school. There are states with jobless rates higher than NC.
post #64 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

jragosta wrote:
"Taxes. While people focus on the tax breaks, they miss the fact that Apple will still be paying 50% of the property tax and 15% of the personal taxes for 10 years "

As opposed to the 100% of property taxes that would be paid by the former owners?

You are hung up on percentages.
The former owners paid taxes on farmland. They might have paid $1000 a year for their 100% (probably less...)
Apple pays taxes as a business. Their 100% liabilities might be $100,000 (I'm making that up)
If they pay 25% of the property taxes, they are still paying $25,000 which is $24,000 more than the previous owners.

If I had real numbers to work with, it might make more sense. But there is no way Apple's data center is in the same property tax bracket as the former owner's farmland.
post #65 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeromeus View Post

If all the unemployed people are qualified for the jobs required at the data center, then I'm SURE Apple would have hired more of them. Like the article says, "Those jobs aren't for us. All we know is furniture." I'm sure those furniture people benefited in that Apple needs to furnish their data center. After that, the benefit is gone until new furniture is needed.

So for the town to really benefit, the people need to learn how to work those jobs. That's their job, not Apple's. Apple hires those who qualify for the job. That's what they need to do and that's their rights.

Apple is not the villain here. But the politicians, as usual, have failed in their duty by not properly funding schools and other services that are essential to developing a vibrant workforce. What part of this deal will help local kids or adults qualify for better jobs?
post #66 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

The tax break is not "free". It comes at the expense of government services such as education, at a time when education and other vital services are under the worst strain in almost a century. Where is the equation showing that the lost tax revenue is made up for, over the long term, by actual benefits?

What are you talking about?!

Maiden has a property tax rate of 0.4%. If Apple's data center is assessed at $1B, the property taxes due TO THE TOWN would be $4M/year. However, Apple negotiated a 50% reduction for 10 years...meaning they give the town $2M/year. That is $2 million per year the town didn't previously get. An additional $2 million per year to be spent "to provide such services as administration, finance and accounting administration, planning and zoning, police protection, fire protection, streets, legal services, sanitation, parks and recreation, library facilities and Town maintained cemeteries."

What part do you not understand? There is no lost tax revenue...Maiden went from getting effectively nothing (maybe $800/year?) for that land, to now getting $2,000,000/year for 10 years, then $4,000,000/year forever.
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post #67 of 289
"According to the report, local authorities have discounted property taxes by 50 percent..."

So, what is their actual amount Apple pays this county/small town in real dollars. Remember, the town and county would not otherwise get this money. I expect it is a lot more than the $1,400 / year I pay locally. Probably in the tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars, which is all gravy to them. If they wanted the same income without Apple they would have had to raise everyone else's property taxes.
post #68 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugzy View Post

Why don't you contact the town directly for the answers to these questions?

Why don't you, prior to making half-assed claims that only look at one side of the story? It's your type of business/political thinking that have gotten this country into the sad economic state it's in today.
post #69 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by drmoss_ca View Post

I see some woolly thinking. It may be true and very reasonable that locals are unhappy that only fifty jobs came with the data centre so far, but to conclude from that that Apple should have made more jobs simply doesn't follow. The choice the community has is to have Apple there and accept fifty new jobs, or have Apple go elsewhere and not have fifty new jobs. To say they would rather have had a new factory with 500 jobs is certainly understandable, but that's not Apple's fault! All sorts of folk wisdom has been directed at this common misdirection of blame, from the saying about not looking a gift horse in the mouth to Æsop's fables.

Chris

I think this is the best summation of the situation on the thread.

Out of work people, especially in an area where many people are out of work are depressed and defeated. The truly motivated have already realised what the situation is, and have left town in search of new jobs or a new life. Some have switched professions, lowered expectations, and got a new, different job right there in town.

Those that haven't done either of these things, and remain in town, are basically depressed people with a skill set that isn't needed anymore. They are afraid of changing. They are waiting around for something to happen, probably (although it's extremely unlikely), they are waiting for the furniture industry to revive right there in the same town. They haven't yet got their minds around the fact that this isn't going to happen.

Depressed people living in a fantasy world, very often get their hopes up when something like this Apple development comes along. They imagine all kinds of rosy benefits that simply aren't going to happen. Then when they don't, they get even more depressed, or even angry because their little fantasy bubble popped yet again.

I think it really unlikely that Apple misrepresented the number of jobs they would be providing. These people have had their dreams shattered, but the dreams were of their own making. More like idle wishing than dreams really.
post #70 of 289
obviously held a gun to their heads, and no one stopped them.

Folks, you, they, we all get what we ask for in the end.

research, ask question's, get answers. If you don't like what you hear, then don't do it! At least don't do it, and then complain that it's not what YOU thought it was going to be or do for you.

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post #71 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

Why don't you, prior to making half-assed claims that only look at one side of the story? It's your type of business/political thinking that have gotten this country into the sad economic state it's in today.

Looks like concentricity has come up with the numbers and Maiden benefits by a massive amount because of the data center, even WITH a 50% tax deduction.

Now that Maiden has this windfall of money, your rage should be directed at how they spend it.
If they don't spend it on education, your issue is with with the town of Maiden, not Apple.
post #72 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post

Why don't you, prior to making half-assed claims that only look at one side of the story? It's your type of business/political thinking that have gotten this country into the sad economic state it's in today.

You act like Apple personally bulldozed your shack in the woods before you could finish your manifesto. Next you'll be claiming that Apple is putting local Mom & Pop data centers out of business in Maiden, NC.

You're the one claiming the town is losing money from Apple's presence despite no article ever implying that is happening so if you want to make such wild claims the you should put in the effort to prove your crazyass hypothesis.

PS: I know for a fact Mugzy is personally responsible for the everything wrong with this country.

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post #73 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

You are telling me 50 jobs that is all Apple offered. A dam disgrace indeed. This state is high in unemployment to begin with.Tim Cook and Apple better get their act together.

That's just stupid. So because they don't hire much you'd rather have no Apple data center and no tax revenues rather than have the data center and some revenues.

On top of that, you'd rather not get your foot in the door in an industry that is the wave of the future.

Cutting off your nose to spite your face.
post #74 of 289
Personally, I don't like the present structure about giving big tax breaks to lure companies to different areas of the country but that is the necessary evil of the system that we have now. It tends to undercut the tax base that is needed for local services and building and maintaining infrastructure.

In order to really know what the deal means in the short and long term, there are many variables that are unknown, at least from the information that was presented in the article. Things like how much did the construction aid the local community? How much in taxes did the couple that owned the property pay on the sale? What is the land being valued at for Apple and what taxes are they actually paying? What does it really mean for an 85% reduction in personal taxes? Is that just for Apple at the state level and/or for the employees in order to lure them to the area to work? How many kids will be added to the school system and who is paying for this? Who is building and maintaining the roads and or the other infrastructure that is needed for the plant? Will Apple having a plant here attract other business to the area?

My gut tells me that this probably is a good deal for the community overall but a more in depth analysis is really needed to be sure and I am not qualified to do that analysis. JMO though.

Neal
post #75 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Maybe Apple could start making the furniture for the Apple Stores at that site. At least the locals would have those skills one would think.

That is a good idea. They make very high quality furniture in NC.

I think some people overlook the fact that 50 highly paid new employees even if from out of state are moving to NC and will be spending their income on homes, gas, grocery, cars, etc. There has to be some trickle down to the local economy.

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post #76 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by freediverx View Post


At what point do we consider the downsides of the tax breaks on education and social services that benefit all the residents of the town and state?

I don't think you're that stupid, you just misunderstandd things. The tax breaks were granted to residents because they were getting a lot of new revenue from Apple. And if they dropped taxes on residents to the point that social services and benefits suffered, that is not Apple's fault. Apple does not set the tax rates for the town's residents.

i am probably on the same side of the political divide as you, but jeez shed the tired old knee-jerk reaction because you only make all of us look dumb.
post #77 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by main1event View Post

Did those people ever stop to consider the tax breaks that city receives?

What tax breaks does the city receive? They are charging the taxes...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wings View Post

"According to the report, local authorities have discounted property taxes by 50 percent and personal taxes by 85 percent."

If THAT'S not a major benefit to everyone there, I don't know what is. Please Apple, come build a plant in my town. I wouldn't care if I work there or not if it means I'll get my property taxes chopped in half.

Why do you think everyone gets their taxes cut?
The property tax cuts are for the Apple property and the personal tax breaks are for the employees. This is part of the package to get them to build there.
post #78 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugzy View Post

Looks like concentricity has come up with the numbers and Maiden benefits by a massive amount because of the data center, even WITH a 50% tax deduction.

Now that Maiden has this windfall of money, your rage should be directed at how they spend it.
If they don't spend it on education, your issue is with with the town of Maiden, not Apple.

Not attacking you, but just pointing out to the innumerate who have been frothing at the mouth:

The 50% tax rate deduction given to Apple is meaningless.

The meaningful numbers are: The full tax rate applied to $0.00 without the datacenter vs Half Rate on a helluva lot more than zero dollars with the datacenter. (Assuming the full tax rate is a positive number.)
post #79 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtdunham View Post

"

I'm sure the nature of the jobs at the tech center disappointed locals. But how many man-years of construction employment did it provide the city? The county? The state? After the tax cut, is apple paying NO local or state taxes, or just a reduced amount? How much? How much will it pay annually starting ten years from now?

Thank you, I read through the entire set of postings for this sort of response. Exactly. Construction jobs from a year long building project, fiber optic lines that needed to be brought into the low tech area, and the possibility about to be fulfilled that they will expand the center both in square footage and adding a solar farm. Leaf Solar is out of Jacksonville, FL ... so that is more jobs in the South.

Mammoth projects like this are often catalysts for other similar projects to spring up nearby. This is how the Research Triangle Park between Raleigh and Durham occurred. The NC Legislature is well aware of the billions that have been brought into the state from decisions made in 1959 to promote new tech.

Also, there is the relationship that NC is creating with Apple. Now Apple as a company is not going to have loyalty ... however, if there is a state that is easier to deal with than others, they will often make the business decision to do more things there. They have always had the DNA to manufacture things and SJ expressed a desire to manufacture things in the USA ... who knows, if they find it easy enough to do business in NC, that possibility might arise. There are are very large number of computer and other engineers in NC from the Research Triangle Park, Triad, UNC-Chapel Hill and NC State.

Its my guess that the NC Legislature is making just such a bet.
post #80 of 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by TallistDah View Post

People who have been furniture makers their whole lives do not bring the skills necessary. It doesn't matter how many jobs Apple brings to this area the people who have lived there their whole lives do not have the skills. At least some one got jobs building it and the people who owned the land made out.

Apple did the right thing.

I agree with you, but thinking it was more that the town expected a influx of high tech jobs, people that would buy furnature.
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