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Apple: The Most Undervalued Large-Cap Stock in America - Page 5

post #161 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post

i'm with frugality on this one. what are the holdings of the author? and why does the original article mention that they're a holder, when the article as posted in the comments says just the above? edit?

and how about the timing? what would this article have read like just five weeks ago, when aapl was trading in the mid 420s?

i'd like to see an in-depth analysis by someone who doesn't have money at stake in the game. cuz i'll guarantee you, zaky is in it for the money.

There's only one thing on which we agree, Pooch - Andy Zaky is "in it for the money." He's an investor, for chrissake - and a damned successful one at that! But you and your fellow numb nuts - "frugality" - are obviously too ignorant and too lazy to do your minimum research into who Andy Zaky is before barfing your guts all over this thread.

Depending on which way he sees the market going, Andy has been long AAPL, short AAPL, cross-traded and out of it entirely for a longer time than you have learned to put your Jockey shorts on frontwards. He is an expert on AAPL market performance and its prospects, but his high regard for the company doesn't prevent him from trading on market realities. Any way that AAPL shares go - up, down or sideways - Andy knows how to make money from it. He is generous with his research, so that others who pay attention to what he says have the opportunity to make money, too. He is a prolific author and contributor to Fortune and to the website Seeking Alpha - but apparently this wide exposure has managed to escape the likes of you.

Most significantly, he has a long record of accurately predicting Apple's quarterly financials and product sales volumes. Following are links to the last six quarters, and he has almost always ranked among the most accurate five among more than 40 Wall Street and unaffiliated analysts.

Next time - trying getting off your intellectual butt and putting in the effort to learn something before impressing us with your ignorance.

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/10/...got-clobbered/

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/07/...treet-blew-it/

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/04/...iss-by-a-mile/

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2011/01/...eet-blew-it-2/

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/10/...s-for-q4-2010/

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/07/...pple-analysts/

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post #162 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Godzilla View Post

Are you seriously, with a straight face, implying that Wall Street players always have it right? You think that Wall Street investors always value and gauge a company and its Stock fairly? If that were the case, great buys and huge upswings wouldn't exist.

Hilarious.

In fact, the market, liquidity, or volatility wouldnt exist.

If the stock market was always right, there would be no reason to invest in it over, say, US treasuries.
post #163 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Prasad View Post

Like it or not, employees of the company need to pay their mortgages, send their kids to school and save a nest egg for retirement. Sooner or later, people will start realizing that their hard work and effort will have far greater upside at other companies than at Apple, and that could lead to a growing exodus of talent, as the best and the brightest are always the first ones to leave. So by not having the stock perform well, Apple seriously risks losing key talent.

Or they could just pay bonuses. Like they already do. Stock isn't the only way to compensate employees

Why does everyone act like there is only one way to accomplish things?

Quote:
Kudos to Andy Zaky and the independent bloggers for their efforts in shedding light on this issue, but Apple Brass had better wake up, too, and do what the company can do to support the stock.

Don't hold your breath. Those that speculated that Jobs and the board probably hold the market in disdain are probably on track. Apple probably tolerates the whole stock market thing more than anything at this point. I don't see them deviating from their core business (delivering insanely great products) at all any time soon.
post #164 of 214
Never put all your investing eggs in one basket - but if you truly believe Apple's not going to drift without its unassailable visionary at the top and during the rise of new powers and the resurrection of others, one of the best large (mega in its case) caps to get a chunk of. Could be one's main tech component even in a 10-20 stock portfolio.

I only buy mutual funds, and usually in amounts less than $40K, but if buying AAPL and having $$$, I'd start averaging in at this point (long as I could afford 100 share lots - otherwise the fees and brokerage inconvenience of "odd lots" starts to pinch).

NOTE: if AAPL wanted to encourage the littler folk to buy in, creating an active small shareholder market - which could be a bit of a halo - they'd do a 4 or more for 1 split so that 100 share lots could be had for $10,000 or less. I know I'd consider breaking my own rule and buying at that point, this being THE corporation I know most about in the world and knowing that Warren Buffett says "buy what you really know."

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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post #165 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post

is he really putting his money where his mouth is? or is he trying to shore up his position? (and "logistics"? no.)

but no-one truly knows, do they? unless they have complete information on zaky's holdings, including dates, volumes, and prices. was he compensated for this piece? how much and by whom?

pony up, zaky.

Or, you know, they can look at the numbers he has provided, and the argument he is making, and figure out for themselves, based on all the other millions of opinions and publicly disclosed financial information whether his thesis makes sense or not.
post #166 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471 View Post

Really? Do you think Zaky is trying to move AAPL stock by posting an article on AI? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

But by comparison one of the smarter things in this thread

Quote:
Secondly, Zaky's comments are a discussion of a balance sheet. I've never heard of anyone trying to surreptitiously move a stock by analyzing a company's balance sheet. (unless maybe the numbers were fabricated, which is clearly not the case with Zaky's article)

Again, what flies for "logic" in these threads has a pretty low threshold...
post #167 of 214
i'll simply say it again: where's the complete information on zaky's holdings, including dates, volumes, and prices. was he compensated for this piece? how much and by whom? ai, did you pay the guy? how much?
"Personally, I would like nothing more than to thoroughly proof each and every word of my articles before posting. But I can't."

appleinsider's mike campbell, august 15, 2013
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"Personally, I would like nothing more than to thoroughly proof each and every word of my articles before posting. But I can't."

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post #168 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post

i'll simply say it again: where's the complete information on zaky's holdings, including dates, volumes, and prices. was he compensated for this piece? how much and by whom? ai, did you pay the guy? how much?

lol

"I cannot think for myself so I must know whether the argument being presented is by someone reliable or not, otherwise I cant distinguish whether it is a good argument or not. You know, because I cannot think for myself".

You will go far in life with that attitude...
post #169 of 214
Lors des crises vous perdez de l'argent en bourse et pour compenser les pertes vous vendez des actions stables qui ont encore une forte valeur.
post #170 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefrançois View Post

Lors des crises vous perdez de l'argent en bourse et pour compenser les pertes vous vendez des actions stables qui ont encore une forte valeur.

During crisis time, you lose money on Stock Exchange, and in order to compensate for this you sell stable stock share which are still very valuable.
post #171 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post

i'll simply say it again: where's the complete information on zaky's holdings, including dates, volumes, and prices. was he compensated for this piece? how much and by whom? ai, did you pay the guy? how much?

Here's more obstinate ignorance on your part that you seem hellbent on perpetuating.

In other websites where this article appears, he states clearly that he is long AAPL at this time. At other times he has written articles where he has stated that he is selling, has shorted the stock, or has gotten out of it entirely. If you need to know more, why don't you go to his Bullish Cross website and ask him yourself? He has nothing to hide, but he also has no obligation to tell you his exact trading history. Why should he? No one else on AI is obligated to do so, nor would he be.

Demanding that kind of information is like someone demanding whether you - Pooch - today may still be wearing the undergutchies that you left a brown stain in yesterday. That's personal of course, but in your case, we don't need to know it for a fact. We can guess.

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post #172 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lefrançois View Post

Lors des crises vous perdez de l'argent en bourse et pour compenser les pertes vous vendez des actions stables qui ont encore une forte valeur.

Dear fellow countryman, this is an English speaking forum, in case you did not notice. As a compatriot, I tell you : please do not reinforce the idea that we do not make any effort in speaking foreign languages !
post #173 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post

i'll simply say it again: where's the complete information on zaky's holdings, including dates, volumes, and prices. was he compensated for this piece? how much and by whom? ai, did you pay the guy? how much?

I'll say it again - what difference does it make? Rather than imply, show us exactly where that information has any bearing whatsoever on the authors thesis.
post #174 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgregory1 View Post

I think some of the anti-Apple sentiment isn't directed at the products per se, but the way they run the company. From Steve Jobs' non-financial background to seemingly wise anti-divendend paying - they are not playing the game the way the Street expects. The Street seems to reward loss and short-term thinking more than sales, profits and long term strategy, at least in Apple's case.

And Jobs proved that dead, completely, WRONG. Dramatically wrong about Apple.
post #175 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by umrk_lab View Post

Fully agree +1 ( I hope you do not possess Apple share, though, some people here could question your integrity ...)

I actually have no stock since I lost half my retirement in the Crash.
post #176 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swift View Post

I actually have no stock since I lost half my retirement in the Crash.

I am very sorry to hear that. I hope that wasn't enough to affect your lifestyle.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #177 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

You really should not be commenting on any matters of finance or economics in this Forum.

Actually, strike the words "...of finance or economics...."

Best laugh I've had all day.
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post #178 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by umrk_lab View Post

Dear fellow countryman, this is an English speaking forum, in case you did not notice. As a compatriot, I tell you : please do not reinforce the idea that we do not make any effort in speaking foreign languages !

Sadly, few of us English speaking peoples can anyway but excellent of you to be able to and to say what you did.
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #179 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post

i'll simply say it again: where's the complete information on zaky's holdings, including dates, volumes, and prices. was he compensated for this piece? how much and by whom? ai, did you pay the guy? how much?

Pooch-

Leaving aside the fact that I agree with him, Andy Zaky's piece was (more-or-less) an advertisement for his services. He sells a newsletter. Nobody paid him for this opinion piece. He put it out there for free in order to draw more viewers to his blog, where he hopes to sell them a subscription.

Note: that doesn't make him wrong. It just makes him a businessman.

Thompson
post #180 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

Pooch-

Leaving aside the fact that I agree with him, Andy Zaky's piece was (more-or-less) an advertisement for his services. He sells a newsletter. Nobody paid him for this opinion piece. He put it out there for free in order to draw more viewers to his blog, where he hopes to sell them a subscription.

Note: that doesn't make him wrong. It just makes him a businessman.

Thompson

Exactly. He began a subscription newsletter after running his free blog for a couple years. The high quality of the blog content made him eminently qualified to create a subscription newsletter. It's not cheap, but serious investors have been willing to pay. The rates offer a volume discount: $199.99 monthly; $499.99 3-months; $899.99 6-months.

I'd be willing to guess that any money that AI pays for articles would be chump change by comparison, and would not be a significant amount as far as Zaky is concerned. In that regard, maybe Pooch should start submitting articles to AI.

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post #181 of 214
Or maybe there all over valued?

I'm not an investor but knowing that Apple doesn't pay dividends like many other large companies, it means the only way you make money is buy selling your shares again. Which means Apple don't actually make the market any money at all, as its just selling ownership back and forth.
post #182 of 214
I think most people feel we are in an Apple bubble, and they are waiting for it to burst. Apple has been going steady for 10 years. The .com bubble pretty much ended in 10 years. People kind of sort of want Apple to fall soon, rather than letting it grow extremely high. Nothing last forever, but it can last a REALLLY LLOOOOONGG TIME.
post #183 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvswarup View Post

1. Any investor worth their salt knows that it's the value of the stock that matters, not price. And if you look at the ownership of most stocks, the majority is made up of institutional investors.

2. This doesn't make any sense. Capitalization is the stock price multiplied by number of shares outstanding. I don't understand where you're going with number 2.

3. That's utter BS. Apple is not a one-trick pony. In their product portfolio, they have Macs, iPads, iPhones, and iPods. They also sell software. How does that make Apple a "one-trick pony?" Apple is not a one-trick pony.

1. While they may be held by institutional investors, it's the ones buying and selling that set the price and the P/E ratio.

2. Exactly and if the stock goes up by 50% the capitalization increases by 50%. Now it would be half again as big as the next biggest company.

3. Impressions can be important, the current impression (right or not) is that Apple is only as good as its last product. Where would it be if the iphone or the ipad had failed?

Consider Samsung, it might not be an exciting company, but it makes everything from from ships to the kitchen sink. If one product fails it's only a blip on their earnings.
post #184 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by umrk_lab View Post

During crisis time, you lose money on Stock Exchange, and in order to compensate for this you sell stable stock share which are still very valuable.

Thanks for the translation. I would like to add that the significance of this is that it is one factor keeping the price of AAPL depressed recently. That is, institutions are selling AAPL to compensate for losses in other stocks, in order to make the quarterly statements of their clients look acceptable.
post #185 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pooch View Post

is he really putting his money where his mouth is? or is he trying to shore up his position? (and "logistics"? no.)

but no-one truly knows, do they? unless they have complete information on zaky's holdings, including dates, volumes, and prices. was he compensated for this piece? how much and by whom?

pony up, zaky.

And that matters, in an article stating facts and incredibly logical speak, how? That's a rhetorical question, btw.

Were you dropped on your head much, or are you just a grumpy E-cynic who resorts to the lowest common denominator of argument, ignoring intelligence and logic completely, thus rendering your opinion/contribution worthless?

..... Rhetorical question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Prasad View Post

Unfortunately, Apple, the company itself, is doing nothing to help out the shareholders. Steve Jobs never cared for Wall Street, and disdained people who were in it for the money. However, that approach is inappropriate today, given Apple's market cap.

A key part of being a public company involves at least an effort on the part of the company to make existing shareholders comfortable with the company, and attract new investors. Part of the job function for Tim Cook is to build up the price of the stock. I am not proposing hyping up the stock price, but the company has to at least let the stock price rise above its deeply depressed levels.

That means being a little more visible to the investment community, providing a little more upbeat vision for the company, placing a put under the market by announcing a share buy back, periodically splitting the stock, and spending money on a few PR programs to build a little buzz about the stock. Surely, Apple needs no education on building a little buzz.
.

Well said, and very true. However, it really is a very fine line, as Apple has to be careful about not "becoming just another company". "Think Different" is a marketing-trademark term you'd think now, but it genuinely applies to how Apple got to where they're at, and how they do business today. Investors will be the first to jump on them if they lose that vision, yet at the same time, investors would like them to play Wall Street Games for the short term boost.

On a day like today, AMZN's bloated Stock outperformed the Market, because Amazon gloated about how well their Kindle is doing. AAPL performed about par with the Market, because Apple refuses to tell anybody anything ("You don't need to know, our performance speaks for itself, and you'll find out during the Earnings Report").

Apple has so many tools they can use to drive AAPL up, and even things not as "drastic" as splits, buybacks, etc. Simply acknowledging, simply showing some confidence (imagine if they showed arrogance! Wall Street would love that!), stating some "We did much better than even we expected", simply refuted claims that iPad shipments were cut, simply stating that iPads are "Selling like crazy", etc. etc. Games games, that would drive the Stock up.

I would like to see them play along a little bit, but not completely give in, as Wall Street can be like a gang, once you're jumped in, you're stuck.
post #186 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

Nobody paid him for this opinion piece.

how do you know this?
"Personally, I would like nothing more than to thoroughly proof each and every word of my articles before posting. But I can't."

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post #187 of 214
It is a bizarre fact that low-priced stocks tend to do better than high priced stocks. No one knows why - it is possible this is because low-priced stocks are statistically undervalued when they are low. But there may be another reason. If I am an individual I might feel I am getting a better deal in buying 100 shares of Apple at 20 dollars, rather than 6 shares at $333 dollars. (Are there any experimental economists in the room to test this?).

So I would argue that part of the blame should go to the Apple board, who should SPLIT THE STOCK ALREADY!
post #188 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by af410 View Post

It is a bizarre fact that low-priced stocks tend to do better than high priced stocks. No one knows why - it is possible this is because low-priced stocks are statistically undervalued when they are low. But there may be another reason. If I am an individual I might feel I am getting a better deal in buying 100 shares of Apple at 20 dollars, rather than 6 shares at $333 dollars. (Are there any experimental economists in the room to test this?).

So I would argue that part of the blame should go to the Apple board, who should SPLIT THE STOCK ALREADY!

Yeah, it's obviously psychological, but it's the way it is.

My theory as to why AMZN is so overvalued and bloated is because investors who want to get into "Sexy Tech Stocks" look to a group of household names: Apple, Google, Amazon, etc. Amazon is a recognizable, solid, reputable company, like the others, and while not as "sexy", it does the job, and is priced much less than the far more undervalued Stocks mentioned. Therefore, people flock To AMZN as they can get 100 Shares at around $20K, while 100 shares of Apple hover around $40K.

AAPL needs a split, badly. We can talk about logical reasons as to why it doesn't matter, but fact is, the Market is illogical in many ways, Everyday-Joe Investors are illogical in many ways, and a high number is much more commanding and noticeable than a low P/E (many Investors don't even know what a P/E is, hence AMZN's price). People see a high number, they see tons of room to go down, forgoing most rationale.

With AAPL at $40, people running on emotion (most all Investors) will see it as a great bargain, and I can see the price getting driven up drastically. I for one would probably stock up on a lot more Shares if the price went down. At this current rate, I'm buying 10 Shares every time the price drops about $10 or so, however, for a measly 10 shares you're looking at almost $4K. To most Investors, it's too small a chunk of the company.
post #189 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post

I think most people feel we are in an Apple bubble, and they are waiting for it to burst. Apple has been going steady for 10 years. The .com bubble pretty much ended in 10 years. People kind of sort of want Apple to fall soon, rather than letting it grow extremely high. Nothing last forever, but it can last a REALLLY LLOOOOONGG TIME.

Talk to me after you can back up your assertions with some hard evidence. At this time, you have none.
post #190 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvswarup View Post

Talk to me after you can back up your assertions with some hard evidence. At this time, you have none.

If you are goin to do this, then you need to ask this from every poster in this thread. That was my opinion, and it doesn't require evidence. Facts does.

Also, I wasn't talking to you. I was just posting.
post #191 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by vvswarup View Post

1. Any investor worth their salt knows that it's the value of the stock that matters, not price. And if you look at the ownership of most stocks, the majority is made up of institutional investors.

2. This doesn't make any sense. Capitalization is the stock price multiplied by number of shares outstanding. I don't understand where you're going with number 2.

3. That's utter BS. Apple is not a one-trick pony. In their product portfolio, they have Macs, iPads, iPhones, and iPods. They also sell software. How does that make Apple a "one-trick pony?" Apple is not a one-trick pony.

I don't see any reliable sources in which you linked too.
post #192 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by af410 View Post

It is a bizarre fact that low-priced stocks tend to do better than high priced stocks. No one knows why - it is possible this is because low-priced stocks are statistically undervalued when they are low. But there may be another reason. If I am an individual I might feel I am getting a better deal in buying 100 shares of Apple at 20 dollars, rather than 6 shares at $333 dollars. (Are there any experimental economists in the room to test this?).

So I would argue that part of the blame should go to the Apple board, who should SPLIT THE STOCK ALREADY!

Amazing deduction! You should write a dissertation on your amazing theories!

In the words of Warren Buffett, "Price is what you pay. Value is what you get." You have not made one mention of what you think Apple is worth. Figure out what you think Apple is worth and compare that to the price you'd have to pay to buy Apple stock.
post #193 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhikl View Post

Possibly the eye roller should read the whole article. As most financial articles, its stock standing comes at the end of the article.

Quoted from end of article: Andy M. Zaky is a fund manager at Bullish Cross Capital, an Appleinsider contributor and runs the financial newsletter, Bullish Cross. Bullish Cross Capital owns Apple as a major holding in the portfolio

Well now I just feel silly. Disclaimers usually come at the front of any article however...
post #194 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondosinatra View Post

Well now I just feel silly. Disclaimers usually come at the front of any article however...

They do? Since when?

Disclaimers on stock ownership almost always appear at the end of the article.
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post #195 of 214
"Andy M. Zaky is a fund manager at Bullish Cross Capital, an Appleinsider contributor and runs the financial newsletter, Bullish Cross. Bullish Cross Capital owns Apple as a major holding in the portfolio."

Talk about pumping up a stock you own.

While I do agree and I do own stock in apple, I think investors see all the incredible (unbelievable) profits apple has made and think they can not sustain this growth. I think they are wrong but buying stock is all about the future and if you don't think a company will continue to grow at this pace, you will not want the stock.
post #196 of 214
I guess this guy is not the only one:

http://money.msn.com/top-stocks/post...7-fa5b23de9299
post #197 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

They do? Since when?

Disclaimers on stock ownership almost always appear at the end of the article.

If you say so
post #198 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by peteo View Post

"Andy M. Zaky is a fund manager at Bullish Cross Capital, an Appleinsider contributor and runs the financial newsletter, Bullish Cross. Bullish Cross Capital owns Apple as a major holding in the portfolio."

Talk about pumping up a stock you own.

Wrong. If you'd bother to read AZ's contributions over the years, you would know about the times he's recommended holding, selling, crossing or staying out altogether. Within the timeframe of his writing an article, he calls AAPL as he sees it. He'll be the first to tell you that he couldn't pump or dump except as he brings true perspectives to a less-than-rational market. If people buy into the facts he brings out, so much the better for transparency. Take, for instance, the belated recognition of the deferred subscription issue a couple years ago by the Wall Street community. It only came about after Andy repeatedly berated them for their flawed financial analysis that brought about an almost-criminal undervaluation by the analyst herd. Finally they wised up and Andy was no longer the prophet preaching in a wilderness of stupidity. In sum, Andy could no more pump AAPL than you could be knowing what you're talking about.

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post #199 of 214
post #200 of 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by peteo View Post

So many different views

http://seekingalpha.com/article/3108...rst?source=msn

That is pretty humorous. No financial justification, no reasoned projections, just "sell because we think it's too high".

The reasons they gave are silly:
- Jobs' death? Already factored in to the stock price. Not that it's likely to matter - Jobs built an Apple that's fully capable of surviving without him.

- Apple products are expensive and won't do when in a poor economy. So what? Is this new? Is the economy suddenly going to get worse than it was for the last 3 years?

- Market is saturated? Then why is this quarter widely expected to be Apple's best quarter ever? And even if it were true, after adjusting for cash on hand, Apple's trading at 8 times earnings - which is far too low even if it doesn't grow.

- Apple is the largest US corporation so it can't grow. This one just doesn't make sense. So if Apple's sales quadruple and profits go up by 10,000 %, the share price can't go any higher? Do these people even THINK about what they say?

- "I don't see any groundbreaking products coming out". Maybe no one explained to him that Apple's secrecy is largely unprecedented. They're not going to tell him in advance. And if he had the creativity and drive to imagine groundbreaking products, he wouldn't be a paid MSN shill. Furthermore, even if he were correct, Apple's share price is too low, even based on existing products.

The really amazing thing is that apparently some people are so easily deluded that they fall for stuff like this.
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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