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Amazon says Kindle Fire is its best-selling product, but won't reveal numbers - Page 2

post #41 of 83
If Apple tried this the press would crucify them. Yet every time Amazon does this they shower Amazon with love and praise for a stellar sales numbers. Whatever!
post #42 of 83
New York City has many famous bridges... all of which are the longest in the world!

"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
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post #43 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

New York City has many famous bridges... all of which are the longest in the world!


That was random....
post #44 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

World according to the tech press.

The iPad is a useless toy only capable of performing a very small subset of the "real" work a PC can do, it is doomed to fail.

The Kindle Fire is an awesome device which will kill the iPad, never mind that it is only capable of performing a very small subset of what an iPad can do, that is irrelevant.

I hope that's saracasm....
post #45 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

It's not just the price.

$200 can buy a decent gift for somebody. But $200 does not get you a decent tablet.

It gets me 2 HP Touchpads. Oh, wait.....
post #46 of 83

Dear Jeff,

You don't need to tell us the sales numbers... just give us the activations and we'll extrapolate!

...Let's see now, correct me if I'm wrong -- 10 activations == 3 sales == 2 returns...

...and each 2 returns == + $50 to the bottom line...

Is that it? That it is!


"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #47 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacksons View Post

You mean even DED's slanted review couldn't stop the avalanche of sales

You mean the "avalanche" of sales that was so good they will not release any numbers? Yeah, when companies do not release numbers, it means their sales suck. The Kindle Fire is yet another terrible iPad clone which will fail miserably in the market place. Going to be a high return rate on that turd.
post #48 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

You mean the "avalanche" of sales that was so good they will not release any numbers? Yeah, when companies do not release numbers, it means their sales suck. The Kindle Fire is yet another terrible iPad clone which will fail miserably in the market place. Going to be a high return rate on that turd.

When did Amazon say it's an iPad clone again?
post #49 of 83
Given Amazon's wide range of products it sells, it's not hard having a top selling item, especially one that they promote and advertise - isn't it really the only item they promote??? It also does not necessarily translate into high volume - again compared to what?

I wonder what their #2, #3 and #4 sellers are? That might tell us something, but they're' not going to release that information either.

My guess, as others have noted, is that they sold to plan, maybe even above plan, but sharing those numbers would just prove that there is still no real competitor to the iPad.

I'm also one to question their model for making money on sales of apps and products through the fire. It's a business model they can't control for and I'm not even sure how they'd account for P/L with, and under what timeline.

If they really want to get incremental sales from the Fire, they should simply give them away to everyone and promote using it as a sort of hand-held bricks and mortar store.
post #50 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

Ultimately means nothing if they don't tell you how many they sold. 'Its out best selling product' .... and ? big whoop. Normally when figures are not disclosed they are embarrassingly low. I suspect that this situation is no different.

To sum up, if they sold anywhere near the figures of the iPad 2 they would say so. They didn't, so they didn't.

Actually, 'Its our best selling product' is rather a telling statement...

Doesn't Amazon sell Books, Music, Videos, DVDs, cables, cases...

Does that mean that Amazon sells more Fires than any of the above?

Likely, "our" means:

Thesaurus:

maker noun
creator, manufacturer, constructor,builder, producer, fabricator, inventor,architect, designer.

"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
- Michael Lille -
Reply
post #51 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Actually, 'Its our best selling product' is rather a telling statement...

Doesn't Amazon sell Books, Music, Videos, DVDs, cables, cases...

Does that mean that Amazon sells more Fires than any of the above?

Likely, "our" means:

Thesaurus:

maker noun
creator, manufacturer, constructor,builder, producer, fabricator, inventor,architect, designer.


Well, if they sell it it is THEIR product becaus they had it in their possesion. Of course, we might be going back to the what's a pc argument...
post #52 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by estyle View Post

All I know is that my brother-in-law (an "android-is-better" iPhone user), bought a Kindle Fire after telling me how great it is. Now he is already giving it away as a gift to our father-in-law for Christmas. (No, he is not buying another one for himself.)

Must have been really great

All the reviews said it was junk; I'm not surprised.
post #53 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post

When did Amazon say it's an iPad clone again?

Well, they compared the fire to ios devices when it was announced. Why make the comparison unless amazon is trying to allege that the fire is an iPad competitor.
post #54 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by jca666us View Post

Well, they compared the fire to ios devices when it was announced. Why make the comparison unless amazon is trying to allege that the fire is an iPad competitor.

I thought Kindle was an ereader? The hell! Make up your minds!
post #55 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post

Sound like you know garbage because you have an iPad 2.

But of course. How will you know the rest is garbage if you've never used THE BEST?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #56 of 83
Amazon is ridiculous. They can't win either way........they are losing $50 dollars per Kindle-Fire sold until the money is made up in content sales. So, if they say they sold a million units, thats a 50 million dollar LOSS. They have already predicted a big loss for the quarter to investors. I'm glad Apple is in the game to make money per sale. Imagine having to pay to give your product away like Amazon. The funny part is that the more units they sell, the more they lose financially. They are taking the Sony PS3 approach (which was fruitful at $60 per game). I'm all for competition; but, you shouldn't kill yourself trying.
post #57 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryn View Post

So in the end we bought two and we will be returning two.

Thanks for helping make Amazon profitable.
post #58 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

But of course. How will you know the rest is garbage if you've never used THE BEST?

Touche.
post #59 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by tundraBuggy View Post

.......they are losing $50 dollars per Kindle-Fire sold until the money is made up in content sales.

$50?

Extrapolating from the SG&A costs of other similar companies/products, plus the profit margin that is required to minimally meet the cost of capital required to finance the creation, production, and sales of a product like the Fire, I am willing to bet that it's at least double that amount.
post #60 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post


But will the 10 milion units be tied to software that when people buy from that will make a profit? *15 books*

15 books? Amazon only makes $3 on each $10 e-book. And all those free apps? Not a dime.

It looks like it would take over 60 books before Amazon makes up the money lost on the Kindle Fire.

But... they will be getting $80 a year from Prime memberships. They'll do OK with that.
post #61 of 83
Quote:
The Kindle Fire, which first became available earlier this month, has been viewed as a low-cost tablet that will compete with and potentially drive sales away from Android-powered tablets, rather than Apple's iPad.

Kindle Fire is Android powered. When you sideload the Android market, all the Android apps become available for it.
post #62 of 83
I love reading these threads. There seems to be two types:

A - Genies that can predict the future and knows how things will unfold in the coming months

B - The smartest people on the Internet because to buy anything but an iPad a person MUST be dumb, poor, have no taste generally not the quality of person found here, looked down upon and ridiculed.

Love it. Honestly. I wish I was this cool and have the power of a crystal ball, my iPad must be malfunctioning, none of these qualities were bestowed upon me once I purchased it.
post #63 of 83
"Kindle is it's best selling product."
Let's see... How many products does Amazon 'make' (as opposed to sell)? Not exactly a high bar to reach, since they only make 3 products.
Sounds like deceptive word smithing to me...
post #64 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Sounds like deceptive word smithing to me...

I'd say! I didn't even consider that angle until I read Dick Applebaum's post a few minutes ago.

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

 

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post #65 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellacool View Post

I love reading these threads. There seems to be two types:

A - Genies that can predict the future and knows how things will unfold in the coming months

I thought Genies only granted wishes.
B - The smartest people on the Internet because to buy anything but an iPad a person MUST be dumb, poor, have no taste generally not the quality of person found here, looked down upon and ridiculed.
I agree with you. Love it. Honestly. I wish I was this cool and have the power of a crystal ball, my iPad must be malfunctioning, none of these qualities were bestowed upon me once I purchased it.

post #66 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

15 books? Amazon only makes $3 on each $10 e-book.

Can you substantiate this claim?

Also, what do you mean by "make"?
post #67 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post

When did Amazon say it's an iPad clone again?

Probably the same time Google said Android was an iPhone clone, or Microsoft said the Zune was an iPod Touch clone or Microsoft said Windows Phone is an iPhone clone.
post #68 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by linkgx1 View Post

I thought Kindle was an ereader? The hell! Make up your minds!

amazon says it is an iPad clone right on their front page.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...f=famstripe_kf

"...same as an iPad"
post #69 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

amazon says it is an iPad clone right on their front page.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...f=famstripe_kf

"...same as an iPad"

Au contraire, they didn't say it was a clone!
post #70 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

A lot of people are going to be returning that cheap mini tablet once they get theirs and they see how it actually performs and they realize that there's a lot that they can't do with it. I wonder how many returns they've already gotten? They obviously won't be releasing those numbers either.

The only numbers that Android sellers seem eager to release are the shipped numbers which means tablets sitting on store shelves, not the actual numbers of tablets sold to people who are buying them.

I bought a Kindle Fire for the wife so she can lay off my iPad. In the mean time, a friend of ours gave her an HP TouchPad. So now she had two tablets. Needless to say, the iPad is the one she still wants to use, the TouchPad is a close 2nd (it "fulfills" the basic needs but not as good -- it will hold her over until I get an iPad 3 and she inherits my iPad 2) and the Fire was garbage.

It crashed a lot on the browser, had trouble inputting onto forms via the web, and ran pretty sluggishly. I sent it back today to get my money back. It was complete garbage.

First, 7" is really too small for a tablet. After putting this thing side by side with the iPad and the TouchPad, it looked more like an iPod Touch with a magnifying glass than a true tablet. Second, with crappy software and sluggish performance, its not scoring points on usability.

Then all the little things. Battery life is about 3.5-4 hours with Wi-Fi on and real world usage (i.e. browsing, reading books, watching a few videos on youtube, etc.) and thats being generous. The 8 hours they claim is with wifi off, and probably with the brightness down while reading a kindle book.

This is amazing too that they keep noting its with wi-fi off because who the heck would want to buy a CLOUD tablet (the big selling point is the cloud storage and streaming) and then use it with the internet OFF? I guess they figured that announcing the FIre with 3.5 hours of battery would have demolished their sales and they are hoping most people don't notice the "Wi-Fi off" thing in their ads.

Also, the lack of camera and microphone means it can never be a Skype machine like the iPad. You can also not record personal voice memos or take picture with it (shame too, because 7" is almost small enough to be a camera without looking as ridiculous as the iPad).

No GPS/Location Services means you can't look up directions on it or use any location-based apps.

So yeah, the Fire is a dud. It will sell like hot cakes by many well meaning but technology inept aunts and uncles this year. But how many of these will actually be used after the initial shine wears off? Probably not many.
post #71 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by auxio View Post

i'm not sure i can take him seriously without seeing some hard data...

amazon has some great news on sales...it's so great we will have to wait to hear what it is...really why bother..
post #72 of 83
Why doesn't Amazon sell the iPad? That would give some perspective to this: http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-E...0VGZ1JMAPZA0MS

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post #73 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

If Apple tried this the press would crucify them. Yet every time Amazon does this they shower Amazon with love and praise for a stellar sales numbers. Whatever!

The press is always so mean to Apple!

Its not FAIR!
post #74 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryn View Post

I bought both a Fire and a Nook tablet for my Wife's birthday as I weren't sure the one she wanted. However she went out and bought a Fire ahead of the birthday (go figure!) so today I just returned those two.

Now for the one she bought she has just used it for a week and has now declared that she hates it. The main complaint was that typing on it was a nightmare - it does not correct as well as iOS and it is unresponsive frequently missing your key strokes. Secondly it is too small to view webpages. This is ironic as the reason it was bought was because my wife did not want an iPad because it is too heavy and too big. Along with the webpages it often will not display them correct, or a site will return the mobile version when she wants the full one. Lastly, for its size, holding it is still not comfortable and it is still relatively heavy.

I could go on how the apps are horrible, the UI is a disaster and so on. Lets just say that for someone used to iOS (even version 3.2 - she has a first gen Touch) that Android leaves a lot to be desired.

So in the end we bought two and we will be returning two. My wife likes a keyboard. I think what she needs is a Macbook Air. Unfortunately that is outside our price point for now.

You can still get her an iPad if that's in your price range. The virtual keyboard is surprisingly good, but if not sufficient you could later buy an iPad case with a keyboard in it for around $60

The apple wireless half size bluetooth keyboard is around that price and will work with any iPad or Mac you might have as well. Best Buy, Walmart have lots of good cases.

Apple really put in the time studying the form factor and I think they got it right.
What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto
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What is really factored into the price is a kind of perpetual sense of disbelief that any company could be as good as Apple is. ~Retrogusto
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post #75 of 83
On a more positive note at least this means everyone won't need to argue about why the Kindle Fire isn't actually in the same tablet market as the iPad if the Kindle Fire happens to sell more!
post #76 of 83
It doesn't matter how many Fires Amazon sells to determine if it's a success. They basically are stating that by selling them around cost. If the people who do use them use enough Amazon services through it, then it doesn't matter if a large portion of the public hates them, it was never a goal to market a good cheap tablet.

It's like selling $25 tennis rackets, however mediocre, so people will rent your courts. You can't judge the strategy by judging the rackets, only by seeing if the courts get booked.
post #77 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

On a more positive note at least this means everyone won't need to argue about why the Kindle Fire isn't actually in the same tablet market as the iPad if the Kindle Fire happens to sell more!

How would this change anything?

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post #78 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

"Yeah, we, uh we sold more than you."

"Well, how many did you sell?"

"How many did you sell?"

"Ten million units."

"We sold more than that."

"Can I see your numbers?"

" No."

^This

... at night.

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... at night.

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post #79 of 83
Amazon sold "a number of" Kindle Fire.
post #80 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrip View Post

15 books? Amazon only makes $3 on each $10 e-book. And all those free apps? Not a dime.

It looks like it would take over 60 books before Amazon makes up the money lost on the Kindle Fire.

But... they will be getting $80 a year from Prime memberships. They'll do OK with that.

Amazon's cut might be $3 on a $10, but that's before expenses not the net profit. I'd be surprised if net is $1 a book. With a Kindle in the mix, I wonder if maybe they're still losing money on every part of their media business, hoping to be the dominant player once the dust settles.

I really don't know how they can manage with Prime. $4 an item for overnight, even Saturday delivery, they're getting a deal that I don't know about, and maybe losing a bit at it too, I don't know what mix that would be. If I ship with FedEx or UPS, the Saturday delivery upgrade alone is $12. All this, even on items less than $10.

As for the press release, they're playing the media for fools, and I think that's justified in some way, but it really does everyone a disfavor, because it's easy to weasel by saying it's best-selling, we don't know if that means something or not. It is a little harder to legally lie about actual numbers sold. Possible, I think, but harder, lying about that figure puts them at a liability if shareholders sue.
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