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Newt Gingrich: Serial Hypocrisy - Page 9

post #321 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Yup! Not just Liberty for those people who go along with the plan and " Oh well. Too bad " for those who got screwed by those who don't.

Oh I see the problem now: You gave a misunderstanding of what I advocate.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #322 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Oh I see the problem now: You gave a misunderstanding of what I advocate.

Yeah that must be it. Sorry but don't have time for this. My wife wants the computer back.

Later.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #323 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Yeah that must be it. Sorry but don't have time for this. My wife wants the computer back.

Later.

Of course.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #324 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Oh I see the problem now: You gave a misunderstanding of what I advocate.

No, it is you who apparently have a misunderstanding of the social and economic effects of what you advocate. Try the economic effects of the deregulation of banks, for instance.

By the way, do you advocate the freedom for churches to marry gays and lesbian couples? Do you advocate the freedom for States to determine whether to recognize such marriages? Do you advocate a woman's freedom to choose what to do with her body at least up to the point where science (not religion) recognizes a pregnancy as a child? How about the day after pill, which stops pregnancy before conception? Do you recognize the right of workers to form unions to make sure no one is taken advantage of?

If the answer to any of those questions is "no", then you don't advocate "freedom for everyone", so stop pretending. We ALL have different views of what freedom is. It's not a black and white issue.
post #325 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

No, it is you who apparently have a misunderstanding of the social and economic effects of what you advocate.

Just because we disagree on what those effects would be and how they can be handled with much smaller government doesn't mean I don't understand them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Try the economic effects of the deregulation of banks, for instance.

What would be wrong with that? If it meant the end of the current government-backed banking cartel and monetary monopoly. One hundred percent reserve banking. No central bank constantly manipulating the supply of money, credit and interest rates (to the benefit of bankers, the government and the rich and to the detriment of savers, the middle class and the poor).

Much greater overall economic stability. Fewer bubbles. It would be good.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

By the way, do you advocate the freedom for churches to marry gays and lesbian couples?

Yes. Any church can do whatever it wants. How that sits with God will be between them and God of course.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Do you advocate the freedom for States to determine whether to recognize such marriages?

Yes. However, I really don't think government should be involved with marriage at all. Ultimately this is an issue of private relational arrangements.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Do you advocate a woman's freedom to choose what to do with her body at least up to the point where science (not religion) recognizes a pregnancy as a child? How about the day after pill, which stops pregnancy before conception?

This one is much trickier as even you should be able to see. This depends greatly on when human life begins and this is a matter that is open for debate. I believe we'd be talking about another human life (living in the womb of a woman.) That being the case there's an obligation to protect that life.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Do you recognize the right of workers to form unions to make sure no one is taken advantage of?

Yes. However I oppose granting these unions any special privileges under the laws as they have now. If someone wants to join a union and delegate employment negotiation to that union they are free to do so. If an employer does not want to negotiate with any unions, they should be free to not do so.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

If the answer to any of those questions is "no", then you don't advocate "freedom for everyone", so stop pretending. We ALL have different views of what freedom is. It's not a black and white issue.

Perhaps. And yet you tried to make all those questions black and white. All that said, I think it's safe to say that I'm an advocate for much more freedom for many more people in many more circumstances and a respecter of more people's rights of life, liberty and property than you, jimmac, BR, et al are.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #326 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Just because we disagree on what those effects would be and how they can be handled with much smaller government doesn't mean I don't understand them.




What would be wrong with that? If it meant the end of the current government-backed banking cartel and monetary monopoly. One hundred percent reserve banking. No central bank constantly manipulating the supply of money, credit and interest rates (to the benefit of bankers, the government and the rich and to the detriment of savers, the middle class and the poor).

Much greater overall economic stability. Fewer bubbles. It would be good.




Yes. Any church can do whatever it wants. How that sits with God will be between them and God of course.




Yes. However, I really don't think government should be involved with marriage at all. Ultimately this is an issue of private relational arrangements.




This one is much trickier as even you should be able to see. This depends greatly on when human life begins and this is a matter that is open for debate. I believe we'd be talking about another human life (living in the womb of a woman.) That being the case there's an obligation to protect that life.




Yes. However I oppose granting these unions any special privileges under the laws as they have now. If someone wants to join a union and delegate employment negotiation to that union they are free to do so. If an employer does not want to negotiate with any unions, they should be free to not do so.




Perhaps. And yet you tried to make all those questions black and white. All that said, I think it's safe to say that I'm an advocate for much more freedom for many more people in many more circumstances and a respecter of more people's rights of life, liberty and property than you, jimmac, BR, et al are.

Fairly good response. I do want to say that although I disagree with many of your ideas and values, some quite strongly, you are someone I respect here. Very much like Ron Paul is.

Let's continue the civil debate.
post #327 of 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Fairly good response. I do want to say that although I disagree with many of your ideas and values, some quite strongly, you are someone I respect here.

Thank you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Let's continue the civil debate.

I'd like that.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #328 of 328
I have to agree with tonton in that it has been good to talk to you lately. You've actually answered direct questions I've posed--in the past, you'd overwhelmingly answer my questions with other questions, sometimes avoiding them completely. I appreciate this more direct MJ.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
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