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Unsold PlayBook inventory costs RIM $485 million - Page 2

post #41 of 86
12/2/11 at 8:30am
I smell a shareholder lawsuit coming. Two quarters ago they were committed to earning $7.50 per share, and now they admit they won't even get to $5.25.
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post #42 of 86
12/2/11 at 8:34am
"The PlayBook sold just a half-million units in the first quarter of availability, but dropped to 250,000 the following quarter. In the third quarter, sales dipped to just 150,000."

Neil...those are units SHIPPED, not units sold!
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post #43 of 86
12/2/11 at 8:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chabig View Post

I smell a shareholder lawsuit coming. Two quarters ago they were committed to earning $7.50 per share, and now they admit they won't even get to $5.25.

On what grounds? If RIM honestly felt that earnings would be $7.50 per share 6 months ago and events since then have changed their estimate, then there are absolutely no grounds for a law suit.

Please don't feed the 'sue first and ask questions later' mentality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

Correct, RIM has shown more restraint in their pricing, but they are still selling it at or below cost when selling it at $200 to the public. That sets the bar far below profitability for tablets in general, excluding the iPad. As I said, between HP and RIM selling at or below cost (and Amazon now too) the price consumer are willing to pay is dropping for all tablets that aren't iPad. That has to make the other manufacturers wonder whether it is worth playing anymore.

And that's what will change things. People are worried that the new price point for a 10" tablet is $99 or $199. Not a chance. At that price, manufacturers simply won't make any. Manufacturers will make 10" tablets to sell at $399 (or perhaps $299) and that's the price the consumer will have to pay if they want a tablet. Of course, if the manufacturers are smart, they'll make much smaller quantities until they determine if they can sell them.

The market is self-correcting.
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post #44 of 86
12/2/11 at 8:52am
I think if the Playbook goes down to maybe $59-$79 I would pick one up just to have a GPS-enabled tablet around the car or for short trips (under a few days) that way if it were to be lost/stolen/broken I wouldn't shed as many tears as I would for an iPad.

But what RIM is doing is smart. First, allow your best (business) customers to get them free/cheap. Then allow your employees to do the same. So basically all the most important and loyal backers to RIM will have gotten their cheap Playbook pretty soon.

Then once all those markets are exhausted, unleash a clearance sale to the general public. That way the rest of us can get them pretty cheap (if inventory still exists) while all the best customers are taken care of and won't complain that they were screwed like they did with the HP Touchpad.
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post #45 of 86
12/2/11 at 8:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

And that's what will change things. People are worried that the new price point for a 10" tablet is $99 or $199. Not a chance. At that price, manufacturers simply won't make any. Manufacturers will make 10" tablets to sell at $399 (or perhaps $299) and that's the price the consumer will have to pay if they want a tablet. Of course, if the manufacturers are smart, they'll make much smaller quantities until they determine if they can sell them.

The market is self-correcting.

The problem for the other manufactures is that they will continue to be squeezed. On one side, they will have Apple sucking away the demand for customer that are willing to pay a premium. On the other hand, they will have Amazon who will continue to sell their tablet at or around cost, as long as their content business benefits.

Every time a manufacturer decides to release a new model, they are going to be stuck trying to appeal to Apple's customers with premium tablets. None have shown that ability yet. Alternatively, they are try to undercut Apple's pricing, but then they will be competing against another giant in Amazon, willing to sell at whatever it takes to move units to sell content. Amazon can match them for every feature and always sell it for less and still make money (again assuming success in content sales).

The market self-correcting is going to lead to the market imploding and leaving Apple, Amazon and a few manufacturers willing to stick around in a market where they sell at below niche numbers for peanuts of margins.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #46 of 86
12/2/11 at 8:57am
Almost half a billion in unsold inventory? Looking for a way out?

One word: arson.

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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post #47 of 86
12/2/11 at 8:59am
The $485 million charge is a smokescreen meant to distract everyone from this little tidbit:

Quote:
"The Company is still in the process of finalizing its fourth quarter outlook, and based on preliminary estimates, RIM expects unit shipments in the fourth quarter to be below third quarter levels."

The fact that RIM will sell fewer phones in Q4 than in Q3 is much more significant than PlayBook's failure.
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post #48 of 86
12/2/11 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conscript View Post

[...] But what RIM is doing is smart. First, allow your best (business) customers to get them free/cheap. Then allow your employees to do the same. So basically all the most important and loyal backers to RIM will have gotten their cheap Playbook pretty soon.

Then once all those markets are exhausted, unleash a clearance sale to the general public. That way the rest of us can get them pretty cheap (if inventory still exists) while all the best customers are taken care of and won't complain that they were screwed like they did with the HP Touchpad.

Using that logic, RIM would be even smarter to just give PlayBooks away free. To everyone. Forever.
Or, extrapolating, RIM could actually *pay* people to take PlayBooks off their hands. Even better!
(I, for one, would welcome the opportunity to own a PlayBook if RIM paid me, oh, $200 or $300.)
They would gain enormous market share, PlayBooks would be everywhere, and RIM would "win."

Right?

Oh wait. I keep forgetting that mobile is the most profitable segment of the computing market.
And that pad computing can be extremely profitable if you can sell a highly desirable product with big margins.
Popular pad computers, like iPad, can earn many billions for their manufacturers. In profits.

So maybe Apple's model of selling extremely popular pad computers for huge profits is the way to go.
Flip a coin.

Sent from my iPhone Simulator

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post #49 of 86
12/2/11 at 9:22am
Who'd have thought that the "pros" of having Flash wouldn't have outweighed the cons of:
* wifi only
* RIM product
* 7" screen
* Android abortion OS.
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post #50 of 86
12/2/11 at 9:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bancho View Post

Amateur hour is now truly over.

You're so right. What a joke this turned out to be. RIMM has no choice now but to exist the tablet market and try to minimize the remaining write-off. I can't fathom a scenario where the Playbook bounces back and becomes viable. None

This should be the fear in God in some of the wannabes that they will lose their proverbial shirt unless they know what the fuck they are doing. Next up for a big write-off is going to be Samsung

iPhone 4, iPad 2, MBA 13", Time Capsule, Apple TV. Windows survivor. Very long AAPL

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iPhone 4, iPad 2, MBA 13", Time Capsule, Apple TV. Windows survivor. Very long AAPL

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post #51 of 86
12/2/11 at 9:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Almost half a billion in unsold inventory? Looking for a way out?

One word: arson.

That is a good one. Never say never

iPhone 4, iPad 2, MBA 13", Time Capsule, Apple TV. Windows survivor. Very long AAPL

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iPhone 4, iPad 2, MBA 13", Time Capsule, Apple TV. Windows survivor. Very long AAPL

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post #52 of 86
12/2/11 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilution View Post

Who'd have thought that the "pros" of having Flash wouldn't have outweighed the cons of:
* wifi only
* RIM product
* 7" screen
* Android abortion OS.

Android abortion OS? We are still talking about the Playbook, right?
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post #53 of 86
12/2/11 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Correct. Apple is doomed.

Notice how as companies are going nose down their paid trolls starting to disappear here at AI
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post #54 of 86
12/2/11 at 10:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KDMeister View Post

Oh man. Canada has had a rough go of it in the tech industry. When I was taking electrical engineering in university back in the early 90's, a dream job would have been to work for Nortel. Then in early 2000, RIM became the next tech darling for the great white north. But it looks like big brother south of the border has given little brother north of the border a big can of whoop-ass. No wonder Canadians always have this inferior complex when compared to their neighbour.

Well, don't beat yourself up.

Your banks could be like ours......
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post #55 of 86
12/2/11 at 10:45am
Why would you pay $199 for a shitty 7" tablet that doesn't do anything with no bright future ahead of it when you could get the Kindle? The TouchPad at least had a decent screen and an E-Mail client.
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post #56 of 86
12/2/11 at 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas View Post

As I said, between HP and RIM selling at or below cost (and Amazon now too) the price consumer are willing to pay is dropping for all tablets that aren't iPad. That has to make the other manufacturers wonder whether it is worth playing anymore.

Indeed. If you go to Best Buy, they have a row of also-ran tablets on display. I can't imagine that any of them have a real chance to reach any kind of a critical mass, or to even turn a profit. I see most of them being sold on WOOT and Overstock.com or blown out on eBay by a liquidation company.

The non-iPad tablet industry is a mess, especially given that its brightest lights are extremely cheap to buy. 2012 will be interesting. Will ICS and powerful hardware be enough to make a dent? Will the Transformer Prime make any kind of an early splash? Will we see lots and lots of cheap tablets that are basically as good as the Fire and the Nook Tablet? Will there be any middle ground between $200 and $500?

They said that 2011 was going to be the year of the tablet, but so far, not so much. CES will be a hypefest this time around too, I'd wager.
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post #57 of 86
12/2/11 at 10:53am
The key point is that there is no way for the PB to be a viable business for RIM. None! If they sell all of their stock at the current prices, they lose money on every sale and gain an insignificant market. They have no content to sell, and can never make it up with app revenue. They can not successfully raise the price back up to profitable levels. No one would buy at that price. They certainly didn't before. They won't encourage more phone sales as the only people getting full use from a PB are BB users already. They're image is not being improved by the PB as they are a laughing stock in the industry. They have traded amateur hour for comedy hour. So far, no one has suggested a single scenario in which RIM makes a success of the PB.

The only thing they can do is start over and build a device that was intended to be sold for $200. Even so, they have to contend with the entrenched bottom feeders who are already established in that category. There simply is no roadmap for success that I can see.
Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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Apple has no competition. Every commercial product which competes directly with an Apple product gives the distinct impression that, Where it is original, it is not good, and where it is good, it...
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post #58 of 86
12/2/11 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

Using that logic, RIM would be even smarter to just give PlayBooks away free. To everyone. Forever.


Just like Apple does with the 3GS!



Quote:
Oh wait. I keep forgetting that mobile is the most profitable segment of the computing market.
And that pad computing can be extremely profitable if you can sell a highly desirable product with big margins.


Just like Apple does with the i4S!
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post #59 of 86
12/2/11 at 11:20am
I don't get why the tried selling the Playbook anyways. It really doesn't have a market. Plus it's only 7 inches...
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post #60 of 86
12/2/11 at 11:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattBookAir View Post

Ahh, AI's first dose of Schadenfreude for the day. Classy.

There was a traffic jam on the high road, so AI took the low road
Besides, RIM makes it sooo damn easy
Plus, it makes up for the years during which Microsoft and all the rest of the world danced on Apple's grave.

I received a black Friday ad from Dick's Sporting Goods: buy a treadmill, get a FREE ANDROID tablet, made by Coby.
"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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"And just like that, everyone here realizes you're just another sweaty little Google licker with an axe to grind and no idea what he's talking about." --addabox
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post #61 of 86
12/2/11 at 11:40am
Poor poor iPad competitors. It's rather sad that they have to resort to such drastic measures. Maybe some one will feel sorry for them and buy 20k of their tablets. Think cobble tablet street.
An Apple man since 1977
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An Apple man since 1977
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post #62 of 86
12/2/11 at 11:51am
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post #63 of 86
12/2/11 at 11:57am
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post #64 of 86
12/2/11 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by King of Beige View Post

second image

DANG YOU, I was just going to post that one.

Now imagine that one from when the HP TouchPad died modified to read RIM and PlayBook instead.
PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #65 of 86
12/2/11 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

There was a traffic jam on the high road, so AI took the low road
Besides, RIM makes it sooo damn easy

Actually, taking the real low road would involve mentioning the two dicks from RIM that were heading to China but then decided to create a drunken riot on the plane over the Pacific. The plane had to head back to Vancouver with the two drunks manacled to their seats. The RCMP took them into custody and now they face charges and a restitution of $35,000 each to the airline.

... and, no, it wasn't the co-CEOs... but maybe these guys were in charge of international distribution of the Playbook.
We know where you are. We know where youve been. We can more or less know what youre thinking about. - Eric Schmidt
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We know where you are. We know where youve been. We can more or less know what youre thinking about. - Eric Schmidt
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post #66 of 86
12/2/11 at 12:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Actually, taking the real low road would involve mentioning the two dicks from RIM that were heading to China but then decided to create a drunken riot on the plane over the Pacific. The plane had to head back to Vancouver with the two drunks manacled to their seats. The RCMP took them into custody and now they face charges and a restitution of $35,000 each to the airline.

... and, no, it wasn't the co-CEOs... but maybe these guys were in charge of international distribution of the Playbook.

Wouldn't you get drunk in their place too?

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. Sometimes it's both.

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post #67 of 86
12/2/11 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wshuff4 View Post

My local Staples still has a Playbook display, and it still includes the sign telling potential customers that they will need to download the OS for the Playbook before they can use it.

Our display unit comes up with a screen asking to log in to a BB account which months of attempts using wifi, BB bridge on a Bold and setting up multiple BB accounts results in nothing more than some stupid error which after a while we gave up trying to fix.

Now it's been removed from display, we stopped selling them months ago.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #68 of 86
12/2/11 at 12:46pm
I wouldn't take one of those pieces of shit, even if it were sold to me for $9.99.

It was so obvious that these were going to be a huge flop. I don't feel sorry for any dumb suckers who bought one for full price.
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post #69 of 86
12/2/11 at 12:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Android abortion OS? We are still talking about the Playbook, right?

Except RIM licensed their Java.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #70 of 86
12/2/11 at 12:51pm
I think AI should start a "Call of Shame" tab where they repost the most wrong posts posted on certain issues. I'd love to see a load of the posts stating the PlayBook would be huge and destroy the iPad. There are many other posts that would be great to do this for too.
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #71 of 86
12/2/11 at 1:54pm
I feel sorry for them. They should have taken their time and tried to make something better than the iPad, instead of just equivalent or worse. The main weakness I see in the iPad design is how hard it is to play certain games with a touch screen. If I was a competitor I would attack there.
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post #72 of 86
12/2/11 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Android abortion OS? We are still talking about the Playbook, right?

Obviously - Siri wouldn't tell you where to get an abortion.

Thanks, I'll be here all week.
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post #73 of 86
12/2/11 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I feel sorry for them. They should have taken their time and tried to make something better than the iPad, instead of just equivalent or worse. The main weakness I see in the iPad design is how hard it is to play certain games with a touch screen. If I was a competitor I would attack there.

BlackBerry smartphones will never have cameras because the No. 1 customer of ours is the U.S. government"--------Mike Lazaridis
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post #74 of 86
12/2/11 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I feel sorry for them. They should have taken their time and tried to make something better than the iPad, instead of just equivalent or worse. The main weakness I see in the iPad design is how hard it is to play certain games with a touch screen. If I was a competitor I would attack there.

There are actually certain games that become better on a touch screen.

A good example of that is World of Goo. The iPad version is the best version of that game ever made, better than on desktops or anything.

There are certain games that are of course better with a controller. I'd rather be playing PacMan with a joystick than on a touchscreen.

A wireless controller for the iPad, that is adopted by most companies and is compatible with almost all games that require it, would be a good thing to have.
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post #75 of 86
12/2/11 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

{Giving them away for free} Just like Apple does with the 3GS!

Congratulations. You've kept your record of never being correct about a topic intact.

Apple doesn't give the 3GS away for free. They charge the carriers several hundred dollars. The carriers 'give' them away, although that's really a scam as every intelligent person knows.
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post #76 of 86
12/2/11 at 3:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Congratulations. You've kept your record of never being correct about a topic intact.

Apple doesn't give the 3GS away for free. They charge the carriers several hundred dollars. The carriers 'give' them away, although that's really a scam as every intelligent person knows.

Isn't it just AT&T in this case? And I wonder how much money tehy are losing. Of course, they gots me in a two year contract.
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post #77 of 86
12/2/11 at 4:08pm
RIM deserve everything they get with the PlayBook. I can only imagine what lunacy led to making a tablet which can only view email when tethered to a BlackBerry... and then marketing it as a consumer product. Muppets.
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post #78 of 86
12/2/11 at 4:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Euphonious View Post

RIM deserve everything they get with the PlayBook. I can only imagine what lunacy led to making a tablet which can only view email when tethered to a BlackBerry... and then marketing it as a consumer product. Muppets.

PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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PhilBoogie
That's Google alright. For a stupid company they sure do dumb things.
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post #79 of 86
12/2/11 at 6:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoo View Post

Yes, hence the sell it at cost thing. They went straight to 100 from the original price and it sold like crazy, if it was the first big tablet at 200 ish I'm sure it would have sold well too.

Please, go back to sleep...
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post #80 of 86
12/2/11 at 7:57pm
"beleaguered"
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