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Apple offered alternative designs for Galaxy Tab to protect patents

post #1 of 130
Thread Starter 
In its July court case seeking a sales ban of the Galaxy Tab 10.1, Apple offered alternative design suggestions for the tablet in order to counter Samsung's claim that iPad and iPhone design patents were dictated by their function, and thus universal.

Public versions of legal briefs released on Friday reveal that Apple had to illustrate the design of the iPad and iPhone were based on aesthetics by giving Samsung a list of tweaks it could make to differentiate the two tablets, reports The Verge.

The Korean electronics company argued that the patents Apple is using against the Galaxy Tab were based on functionality, and are thus required by all smartphones and tablet computers as part of a basic utilitarian design.

Samsung says that it had no choice but to use the design elements in question, but Apple asserts that other options were available and that the Korean company purposely violated standing patents. To prove its point, the Cupertino, Calif. tech giant generated a list of possible alternatives that included:


A front surface that is not black.
A shape that is not rectangular.
No rounded corners.
A front surface that is not flat.
Varying Bezel size.
A device that is not thin.
A cluttered appearance.


In response, Samsung made slight changes to its device and rebranded it the Galaxy Tab 10.1N to skirt a permanent ban in Germany. Apple, however, did not feel the changes were substantial enough to warrant the lifting of the injunction, and asked the German court to ban the remodeled version as well.

The news is an interesting side-note to the ongoing worldwide patent dispute in which the two companies are currently embroiled. Apple has won two injunctions, in Germany and Australia, however the latter was recently overturned and is under appeal.

Illustration from court brief comparing iPad and Galaxy Tab profiles | Source: The Verge
post #2 of 130
I can see a spherical tablet would just fine then. No damn it, that would count as round corners. I know ...... octahedron with bumpy surfaces and tea cup shaped handles and pink fur, oh and a pull out antenna and speakers that look like ears.
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post #3 of 130
Haha! Apple is acting like a smart a** on this one. Basically telling Samsung to make something that looks crappy.
"Not Thin" are they serious!
post #4 of 130
Not thin!! lol thats pathetic.Interesting that the new Motorola Xoom has squared off corners, I wonder if they did that to avoid all this.
post #5 of 130
Apple is being ridiculous. There are plenty vendors with original smartphones and tablet designs that have every single one of those features. Of course Samsung isn't even close to being one of those vendors.

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post #6 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post

LOL. Almost feels like Apple is trollin' Samsung

I was trying to say that in the first post but you said it better I have to think it was tongue in cheek.
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post #7 of 130
The whole point of this is to teach Samesung that blantant copying is not okay, outside Ong Kong and Korea. Seriously, have you looked at the box branding, the usb/dock connector, or the icons for gods sake! I mean, does Samesung have one original thinker in their entire business? I doubt it, since it wasn't until after the iPad 2 was released that Samesung went back to the drawing board on their 10.1 in order to rip off the look and feel of the then new, iPad2.

After Samesung gets their nuts kicked up into their throat, they'll think twice about ripping off Apple again. But considering Apple is the bar by which all else is measured, that may be tough for them.
post #8 of 130
Maybe Apple should have considered the same 'design alternatives' before they used each of those design elements AFTER numerous others manufactures had be using them for years?

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post #9 of 130
Exactly, DaHarder! Samsung could have cloned one of those other designs that nobody would mistake for Apple’s product... or even come up with their own, so we’d have more real choice and competition! Instead, Samsung copied, right down to numerous small details, which were no accident and not “inevitable."

Forget those hypotheticals and that list of vague “elements"... there have been tons of other companies' tablet designs that look different from the iPad (to say nothing of Samsung’s cloned Apple packaging, charger design, “smart cover”/colors, cable-ends, etc. etc.):





















There we have lots of variety: past, present, and over-hyped future.

And then here’s what Samsung did.
post #10 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Forget those hypotheticals and that list of vague elements"... there have been tons of other companies' tablet designs that look different from the iPad (to say nothing of Samsungs cloned Apple packaging, charger design, smart cover/colors, cable-ends, etc. etc.):





















There we have lots of variety: past, present, and over-hyped future.

And then heres what Samsung did.


That tells the whole story.
post #11 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

[]

And then heres what Samsung did.

I'd like to see DaHarder explain that. I'm sure he'll counter with another pic of his "collection".

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #12 of 130
Samsung is absolutely disgusting.
post #13 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post

I hope so, but unfortunately, I think Apple just gave the "OMG Apple claims exclusive rights to thin rectangular devices" crowd a whole lot of fuel.

If Apple has some bigger plan in mind I can't see it. These suggestions are in the same class as the crazy trolls that post here. They either have to be crazy or they are making a funny.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #14 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Apple is being ridiculous.

Perhaps Apple should submit actual designs instead of a few generic ideas for Samsung to use?
post #15 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

Perhaps Apple should submit actual designs instead of a few generic ideas for Samsung to use?

I'm sure Samsung would love for Apple to do that. Didn't they already request designs of their future devices?

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #16 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post

Well, allow me to play devil's advocate here--

While samsung may not have had a tablet like the ipad prior to the... ipad, they DID have a device that incorporated many of the design elements Apple is claiming against them. We all know what device I'm hinting at here *cough* digital photos *cough*

So, can samsung claim that they based their design of the galaxy tab 10.1 off said device, and not the iPad? Can they claim the resulting thinness to be a natural evolution of the progress of technology?

That digital photo viewer only resembles the iPad on one plane in one view, not all of them. And then there is Samsung copying iOS for their UI layer. I think Samsung is clearly a KIRF, but I don't think any one of these listings are an issue, a right for Apple, and really just makes Apple look silly.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #17 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

That digital photo viewer only resembles the iPad on one plane in one view, not all of them. And then there is Samsung copying iOS for their UI layer. I think Samsung is clearly a KIRF, but I don't think any one of these listings are an issue, a right for Apple, and really just makes Apple look silly.

Though I certainly agree that this does 'just make Apple look silly', I'd really like to know exactly how Samsung copied' "iOS for their UI layer", given that they look/function quite different... Do Tell?

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post #18 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post

With all due respect, I have to disagree on the UI layer. Sure, on the Galaxy S with touchwiz 3, it mimic iOS a little too closely, but, from my limited experience with the tab 10.1, those customizations are not present. It is running, for the most part, stock honeycomb.

I'm talking about TouchWiz, not every Samsung product. They have more products that aren't a rip of Apple products than they don't for comparable categories, but that doesn't excuse them from the ones that are HW and SW copies.

ICS looks pretty good. It's the first version of Android that looks like it might be a decent user experience. The problem there is very little real world info on it at this point. The SDK only came out October 19th.

PS: It's also been announced that Gingerbread (2.3.x) now accounts for just over 50% of Android-baed devices. At first this sounds like Google has figured out how to keep Android intact but then I realized that Honeycomb (3.x) was closed and only for tablets, and Gingerbread has been the only version for a year now. ICS is technically out but I think the Galaxy Nexus is the only device with it and I don't think that is even sold in the US at this time.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #19 of 130
I can do one better. A bowl shape so my dog can eat her kibble out of. Maybe a tray shape so my cat can use the kitty litter box. A sloped face so that I can jump my mountain bike off of.
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post #20 of 130
Even Dunder Mifflin is more original than Samsung.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/1..._n_989557.html (video)

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #21 of 130
It will be harder and harder for Apple to get away with this king of "intellectual property protection". It is not an underdog anymore. They have lost the case in Australia. My feeling is that they will lose the appeal, and they will start losing more cases. Now Apple is the largest public company in the world. Governments always try to find a way how to break such companies apart (to improve competition) or how to restrict them from stiffing the competition in other ways. With such dumb-ass arguments like "rectangular shape" they are just asking for trouble.
post #22 of 130
so lets see..... apple patented the color black, rectangular shapes, rounded corners, flat screens, and bezel size, and thin stuff...... what a joke lol


sounds like apple is afraid of Samsung.
post #23 of 130
The story goes like this.

Apple releases a new, amazing product that is unlike anything else that came before it. We could be talking about the original iMac, the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad, the new iMac, The Macbook Air etc. etc. etc.

Soon, other manufacturers employ some monkeys to copy Apple's devices and they start coming out with devices that heavily resemble what Apple released, both in appearance and every other imaginable way.

Apple haters and people off of their medication will suddenly claim that Apple's designs are so obvious and generic, that it is virtually impossible to make a product that doesn't rip off Apple's design. If it was so obvious, then why didn't they do it before Apple did it?

After the original iMac was released, why did cheap ripoffs and colorful computers start appearing all of a sudden? Was that obvious too?

Why are companies releasing all in one computers that look almost like a new iMac today? Don't answer that, let me guess. That's so obvious too, so there's no way to make an all in one computer that doesn't look like an iMac.

Why do some ultrabooks look almost exactly like a Macbook Air today? Is that so obvious too?
post #24 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Apple is being ridiculous. There are plenty vendors with original smartphones and tablet designs that have every single one of those features. Of course Samsung isn't even close to being one of those vendors.

There is also one that isn't using one of them and it kind of proves their point about Samsung having choices. And that's Microsoft with their Metro UI.

That Samsung is using a near identical UI on top of a very similar shape, bezel width and so on to the iPad is Apple's point. It's a totality issue, not just any one line item

And we shall see what the various judges say. Fortunately for Apple, even if they lose it still counts as actively trying to protect their IP (a requirement in US trademark/dress laws)

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post #25 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgriner View Post

so lets see..... apple patented the color black, rectangular shapes, rounded corners, flat screens, and bezel size, and thin stuff.

When combined in one item, yes.

Quote:
sounds like apple is afraid of Samsung.

Not at all. What they are afraid of is being rendered powerless against a blatant knockoff because they ignored Samsung if you understood US IP laws you wouldn't be surprised bony of this

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post #26 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Maybe Apple should have considered the same 'design alternatives' before they used each of those design elements AFTER numerous others manufactures had be using them for years?


Not sure what you're getting at. The other tablets in the picture are thick, have square edges, have a cluttered appearance, front surfaces that aren't flat and several of them aren't black. The only thing they all have in common is that they're essentially rectangular. Some of them have protrusions, though, so not quite.
post #27 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgriner View Post

so lets see..... apple patented the color black, rectangular shapes, rounded corners, flat screens, and bezel size, and thin stuff...... what a joke lol

sounds like apple is afraid of Samsung.

Sure seems that way, and it'll be interesting to see what happens when customers are allowed to make a choice between the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 and the Apple iPad 2, sans all of this anti-competive misuse of the legal system to block the sale of competing devices.

Apple devices do extremely well in other counties, so they really should have nothing to fear from competing wares. \

Maybe if Samsung hadn't come up with a device that's thinner, lighter, brighter, and higher resolution than the iPad 2, they wouldn't be so seemingly bitter and vindictive?
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post #28 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by serkol View Post

It will be harder and harder for Apple to get away with this king of "intellectual property protection". It is not an underdog anymore. They have lost the case in Australia. .

No they haven't. The case hasn't been tried.

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post #29 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke View Post

Not sure what you're getting at. The other tablets in the picture are thick, have square edges, have a cluttered appearance, front surfaces that aren't flat and several of them aren't black. The only thing they all have in common is that they're essentially rectangular. Some of them have protrusions, though, so not quite.

Sure... If that's what you need to believe - Have At It.
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post #30 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Sure... If that's what you need to believe - Have At It.

What do you mean, if that's what he needs to believe? He's right. Not one of those has the combined elements that make it look like an iPad. If what you need to believe is to ignore facts, then you won't see much success in argument.
post #31 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Maybe if Samsung hadn't come up with a device that's thinner, lighter, brighter, and higher resolution than the iPad 2, they wouldn't be so seemingly bitter and vindictive?

Samsung changed their whole plans after they got terrified and nearly had a heart attack after they saw the iPad 2.

Their current tablet that they were developing at the time was a ripoff based on the iPad 1 design, so they had to quickly scrap those plans and do as best as they could to ripoff the iPad 2 design.

Samsung tablets have been given away for free with certain TV's. That sounds real successful. It seems like the main way to move Android devices is to give them away for free.
post #32 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Exactly, DaHarder! Samsung could have cloned one of those other designs that nobody would mistake for Apples product... or even come up with their own, so wed have more real choice and competition! Instead, Samsung copied, right down to numerous small details, which were no accident and not inevitable."

Forget those hypotheticals and that list of vague elements"... there have been tons of other companies' tablet designs that look different from the iPad (to say nothing of Samsungs cloned Apple packaging, charger design, smart cover/colors, cable-ends, etc. etc.):



















There we have lots of variety: past, present, and over-hyped future.

And then heres what Samsung did.

Excellent summary. That's the entire point. Samsung could have made an infinite variety of tablet designs, but they just happened to end up with one that was so close to the iPad that their own attorney couldn't tell them apart.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

If Apple has some bigger plan in mind I can't see it. These suggestions are in the same class as the crazy trolls that post here. They either have to be crazy or they are making a funny.

No, they're simply highlighting their patents and trade dress issues. As shown above, there are plenty of ways to make a tablet that don't look like an iPad. All Samsung had to do was change one of those items and it wouldn't have been infringing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

Perhaps Apple should submit actual designs instead of a few generic ideas for Samsung to use?

That's it. Apple should design the entire product for Samsung.

Oh, wait. They already did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post

Well, allow me to play devil's advocate here--

While samsung may not have had a tablet like the ipad prior to the... ipad, they DID have a device that incorporated many of the design elements Apple is claiming against them. We all know what device I'm hinting at here *cough* digital photos *cough*

So, can samsung claim that they based their design of the galaxy tab 10.1 off said device, and not the iPad? Can they claim the resulting thinness to be a natural evolution of the progress of technology?

It doesn't matter. "Many of the same design elements" is not the same as "so close in appearance that their own attorneys can't tell the difference. In order to infringe Apple's design patent, the device had to duplicate ALL of the design elements. "Many" won't get them off the hook.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgriner View Post

so lets see..... apple patented the color black, rectangular shapes, rounded corners, flat screens, and bezel size, and thin stuff...... what a joke lol

No. Apple's design patent is for a device that has ALL of those features. Please show a previous device that had ALL of those features. (Hint: you can't). All Samsung had to do was change one of the items and they'd have been OK. Look at the photos above for a few examples of how it was possible to design a product without infringing Apple's design. Instead, Samsung made a near-identical product -- so close that their own attorney couldn't tell the difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgriner View Post

sounds like apple is afraid of Samsung.

Ridiculous. If someone breaks into your home and you call the police, that doesn't mean that you're afraid - just that you're not going to sit by and let someone rob you blind.
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post #33 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Sure seems that way, and it'll be interesting to see what happens when customers are allowed to make a choice between the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 and the Apple iPad 2, sans all of this anti-competive misuse of the legal system to block the sale of competing devices.

Apple devices do extremely well in other counties, so they really should have nothing to fear from competing wares. \

Maybe if Samsung hadn't come up with a device that's thinner, lighter, brighter, and higher resolution than the iPad 2, they wouldn't be so seemingly bitter and vindictive?

All non-iPads combined sold less than 1.5 million tablets from Jan to Oct. Apple sold over 11 million in just theo last quater. Your an idiot if you think this has anything to do with Apple being afraid of "competitve" wares.
post #34 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Sure seems that way, and it'll be interesting to see what happens when customers are allowed to make a choice between the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 and the Apple iPad 2, sans all of this anti-competive misuse of the legal system to block the sale of competing devices.

Can't you order one right now in the US?

How have they been selling?
post #35 of 130
Well US Judge did not fall for these.

She has denied Apple's request for injunction, another win for Samsung
post #36 of 130
Some if those are moronic. Not a rectangle? What other shape would it be? A black bezel is necessary for perceived contrast in video. Which is why 99 percent of all TVs have a black bezel. Apple has a design patent on flatness and thinness? I love my iPad, but this case just shows how patent law is moronic and needs reform. The only thing other products haven't had for years is round edges and the home button.
post #37 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A front surface that is not black.
A shape that is not rectangular.
No rounded corners.
A front surface that is not flat.
Varying Bezel size.
A device that is not thin.
A cluttered appearance.

ROTFL.

It is interesting to see what Apple thinks that actually are the main distinguishing features of an iPad. So far, I've only encountered the uninformative "Samsung copied", or detailed arguments coming only from the groupies.

It is also noteworthy that there is nothing of substance in the above list, just superficial features. It is almost as if Apple doesn't believe that the OS and specs of the iPad are enough to let it keep its momentum on the market.
post #38 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Samsung changed their whole plans after they got terrified and nearly had a heart attack after they saw the iPad 2.

Their current tablet that they were developing at the time was a ripoff based on the iPad 1 design, so they had to quickly scrap those plans and do as best as they could to ripoff the iPad 2 design.

Samsung tablets have been given away for free with certain TV's. That sounds real successful. It seems like the main way to move Android devices is to give them away for free.

All Samsung did was make their device both thinner and lighter than Apple's iPad 2, otherwise retaining all of the following:

- a screen size/aspect-ratio/resolution that is completely different than the iPad 2.
- a native device orientation (landscape) this is the complete opposite of the iPad 2.
- a camera location thats is in a completely different location than the iPad 2.
- material composition that is completely different than the iPad 2.
- corner radii that is completely different than the iPad 2.
- bevel angles that are completely different than the iPad 2.
- rear panel styling that shares absolutely nothing with the iPad 2.



The rest of your post amounts to completely unrelated fanatical nonsense... period.
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post #39 of 130
post #40 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleankit View Post

they have already lost case in US

...and given how utterly generic and ridiculous these 'design infringement' claims are, they'll likely lose in every country they continue this anti-competitve nonsense, and Samsung will then sue them for any potentially lost sales/revenue... And Win Big!
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