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Apple offered alternative designs for Galaxy Tab to protect patents - Page 2

post #41 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post

LOL. Almost feels like Apple is trollin' Samsung

post #42 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by majjo View Post

Looks like the injunction was denied, not that the case was lost to apple.

And in all fairness it looks like Apple is relying more on technical patents than design here. the '381 patent seems to be the 'bounce animation' from overscrolling.

On the other hand, that should be an easy fix for Samsung.

Yes, a very easy fix. Already done in Netherlands and none of their newer devices are coming with this animation, rather a blue glow.

And it not true that Apple is relying more on Utility patent, they have tried very hard to convince court about design patents. But ultimately were not successful.
post #43 of 130
If the Android tablet/phone manufacturers were smart they would have come out with their devices in white to start with. Since the iPhone/iPad was originally only in black there's no way they could have been accused of 'look & feel' problems. It would have in fact forced Apple's hand in not coming out with a white iPhone/iPad or else 'they' would have been seen as the copycats. Even in a courtroom at 20' away you would have been able to tell which tablet is white and which was black. Would even be cool if the Android tablets had a red line around the front edge like they have on the Canon 'L' class lenses.

Too late now. Skate to where the puck is going to be.
post #44 of 130
Apple must think their customers are extremely stupid.

How many people would buy a Galaxy because they mistook it for an iPad, and then not notice the difference within 30 days?

No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

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No matter what type of media...movies, music, books, photos and web pages

look better and sound better on the Kindle Fire HD and HDX than any iPad

Reply
post #45 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post

Apple must think their customers are extremely stupid.

How many people would buy a Galaxy because they mistook it for an iPad, and then not notice the difference within 30 days?

Im going to guess that you're in the US? The rest of the world doesn't enjoy the same consumer protection as America. If I buy a tablet computer here in Australia I can only return it if it is faulty. So, no Apple don't think their customers are stupid

OTOH, I think the issue here is more about going after the most blatant rip off of the iPad. This is a legal requirement in many countries to protect either patents or copyright. Doing nothing when these are infringed essentially can mean giving up all legal protection on your investment in design.

I don't believe Apple's product is under threat yet as the whole ecosystem, software, hardware combination is what sets iOS devices apart. It's not just about colours or shape. However, if there is a possibility that uninformed consumers (the normal kind) could be confused by similar looking products then it is good that a company takes a stand. Despite having the word "Samsung" on the box even the packaging of the Samsung Tab was almost a clone of the iPad's.

Apple does stand a chance of coming out of this looking like a bully but I for one am glad they are doing it. It is the responsible thing to do. I just hope they use a bit of common sense and attempt to win the media war as well as the legal one. They are generally quite good at that.
post #46 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouty2 View Post

Im going to guess that you're in the US? The rest of the world doesn't enjoy the same consumer protection as America. If I buy a tablet computer here in Australia I can only return it if it is faulty. So, no Apple don't think their customers are stupid

Let's face facts here...the chances of someone walking into an electronics store, and purchasing a Samsung Galaxy device somehow thinking it was an Apple product/iPad 2 are nearly infinitesimal, if for no other reason than the devices are all clearly labeled SAMSUNG on their surfaces, start-up screens, and packaging, in addition to running a completely different operating system.

Actions such as these by Apple should be seen for exactly what they are, anti-competitive attempts to stifle the competition by any means...legal, ethical or otherwise, and very little more.
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #47 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleankit View Post

Well US Judge did not fall for these.

She has denied Apple's request for injunction, another win for Samsung

Another win? Don't you have to have a previous win to use a word like "another".
post #48 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Let's face facts here...the chances of someone walking into an electronics store, and purchasing a Samsung Galaxy device somehow thinking it was an Apple product/iPad 2 are nearly infinitesimal, if for no other reason than the devices are all clearly labeled SAMSUNG on their surfaces, start-up screens, and packaging, in addition to running a completely different operating system.

Actions such as these by Apple should be seen for exactly what they are, anti-competitive attempts to stifle the competition by any means...legal, ethical or otherwise, and very little more.

You have to be able to sell something to be competitive. The Galaxy Tab doesn't sell and is therefore not competitive, hence Apple is not being anti-competitive. Think you can wrap your thick skull around that concept? This lawsuit is nothing more than to crush crappy companies from southeast Asia from continuing their tradition of creating knockoffs.

You know when Samesung will come out with their next great product? After Apple creates it.
post #49 of 130
Maybe Apple is jealous of the success enjoyed by Android tablets. lol

With 80 billion in cash and the hottest notebooks, phones, tablets, and mp3 players in the world, you'd think they wouldn't be so envious.

Next they will go after the highly successful Google Tv.
post #50 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac.World View Post


You know when Samesung will come out with their next great product? After Apple creates it.

Happens every time. Apple invents. Then the "me too group" rush a similar product to market with features Apple left out in the first generation.
post #51 of 130
HAHHAHHAHA "Cluttered Appearance" LOL!
Apple had me at scrolling
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Apple had me at scrolling
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post #52 of 130
Oh, I almost forgot:

[/CENTER]Victory![/CENTER]
post #53 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Happens every time. Apple invents. Then the "me too group" rush a similar product to market with features Apple left out in the first generation.

Except Apple 'invented' nothing in this case... Especially not the rectangle, or the color black
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #54 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Except Apple 'invented' nothing in this case... Especially not the rectangle, or the color black

Well, Apple didn't invemt the tablet, but they did invent the tablet market.

I've also come to realize, that you must live in your own "special" little world.
post #55 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac.World View Post

Well, Apple didn't invemt the tablet, but they did invent the tablet market.

I've also come to realize, that you must live in your own "special" little world.

As long as said 'world' is nowhere near your twisted, delusional little Mac.World... I'm quite happy.
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #56 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Apple is being ridiculous. There are plenty vendors with original smartphones and tablet designs that have every single one of those features. Of course Samsung isn't even close to being one of those vendors.

Good call. I put on my tinfoil hat for a moment and think that MAYBE, just MAYBE, Apple is making a joke to counter the Samsung: "iPhone purchasers are stupid" commercials. Clearly no one is serious about Apple design submissions.
post #57 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

As long as said 'world' is nowhere near your twisted, delusional little Mac.World... I'm quite happy.

He happens to be right.

There was nothing like the iPad available before it was released.

Companies had been releasing tablets for many years, and virtually nobody bought them, because they all sucked due to a whole multitude of reasons. They were making them wrong, they were clueless as to how a tablet should be and what should be on it. The public wasn't interested in that crap and they didn't buy them. Apple basically ushered in the whole modern tablet era with the iPad. It changed everything, and left the competitors scrambling to come up with their own tablets, all of which have failed miserably so far.
post #58 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

Exactly, DaHarder! Samsung could have cloned one of those other designs that nobody would mistake for Apples product... or even come up with their own, so wed have more real choice and competition! Instead, Samsung copied, right down to numerous small details, which were no accident and not inevitable."

Forget those hypotheticals and that list of vague elements"... there have been tons of other companies' tablet designs that look different from the iPad (to say nothing of Samsungs cloned Apple packaging, charger design, smart cover/colors, cable-ends, etc. etc.):

Excellent post! I don't understand why people don't get it. It's not that Apple is trying to stop others from entering the tablet market. It's just that they're unwilling to stand by and have other companies steal their designs. Good for them. Apple's lawsuits will force these wanna-bes to create new designs and actually compete which is what people bitching about Apple claim they want.

BTW, I'd add one more image to your list of tablet-makers who have entered the market without slavishly copying Apple's every move: Sony's S1 and S2.

post #59 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke View Post

Not sure what you're getting at. The other tablets in the picture are thick, have square edges, have a cluttered appearance, front surfaces that aren't flat and several of them aren't black. The only thing they all have in common is that they're essentially rectangular. Some of them have protrusions, though, so not quite.

Yeah, I wonder what an iPad using 2003-2007 manufactoring processes would look like...

edit:

Once you remove those technical aspects of the patent, there isn't much left for apple to defend here :>
post #60 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Let's face facts here...the chances of someone walking into an electronics store, and purchasing a Samsung Galaxy device somehow thinking it was an Apple product/iPad 2 are nearly infinitesimal, if for no other reason than the devices are all clearly labeled SAMSUNG on their surfaces, start-up screens, and packaging, in addition to running a completely different operating system.

Actions such as these by Apple should be seen for exactly what they are, anti-competitive attempts to stifle the competition by any means...legal, ethical or otherwise, and very little more.

I'm obviously not being clear here. I'm not trying to suggest that anyone would walk into a store, slap down some hundreds of dollars and walk out with a Samsung tab thinking it was an iPad. Of course that would be ridiculous. However, what I believe is more than just possible is that someone could do this in the mistaken belief that the Samsung Tab is the same as the iPad. To the uninformed purchaser if it looks like it and feels like it and costs about as much then it must be the same.

What other reason would any company have for copying the appearance of another company's market leading product? As has been said elsewhere, there are enough companies producing innovative designs to demonstrate that nothing about the iPad is inevitable. That none of those designs has been found to be compelling by the buying public suggests to me that it is not just about the device - but that could just be me.
post #61 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgriner View Post

so lets see..... apple patented the color black, rectangular shapes, rounded corners, flat screens, and bezel size, and thin stuff...... what a joke lol


sounds like apple is afraid of Samsung.

My Android phone is the worst phone I've ever owned.
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My Android phone is the worst phone I've ever owned.
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post #62 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Maybe Apple should have considered the same 'design alternatives' before they used each of those design elements AFTER numerous others manufactures had be using them for years?


Interesting how the iPad does not resemble any of these unless of course you are just a troll
post #63 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Happens every time. Apple invents. Then the "me too group" rush a similar product to market with features Apple left out in the first generation.

yep. all the cloners like Samesung, Google, and Microsoft just steal from Apple. Now that the justice system allows it, there is nothing to stop them. So it does not make sense for APple to innovate anymore if everyone can legally rip them off.
post #64 of 130
Samsung | sam-sung |
noun
1 Name of a corporation typically known to have no shame or honour
2 Corporation that copies, shamelessly defending that copying to further its own ends
post #65 of 130
So, Ford makes a good, cheap, on the surface replica of a Ferrari, sells it at half the price.

Wrong? Or right?

These beliefs that somehow Samsung isn't copying Apple to sell more product is so daft as to make one laugh.
post #66 of 130
Apple also added these to the list possible design changes Samsung could make:

-Make it 100 ft. wide

-Attach pom-poms to the front of the screen

-Put Hulk Hogans mustache on it

-Make it smell like Zebra feces
post #67 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleankit View Post

Well US Judge did not fall for these.

She has denied Apple's request for injunction, another win for Samsung

You might want to read the decision. The judge didn't rule on the merits. She denied the injunction because Apple couldn't show irreparable harm. That's a reasonable position given that Samsung has billions of dollars that could be recovered by Apple if Apple wins.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russell View Post

Apple must think their customers are extremely stupid.

How many people would buy a Galaxy because they mistook it for an iPad,

Samsung's attorney, for one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Let's face facts here...the chances of someone walking into an electronics store, and purchasing a Samsung Galaxy device somehow thinking it was an Apple product/iPad 2 are nearly infinitesimal, if for no other reason than the devices are all clearly labeled SAMSUNG on their surfaces, start-up screens, and packaging, in addition to running a completely different operating system.

Look at Samsung's packaging. Look at the iTab. Heck, look at the Tab charger. They're clearly made to be as close to Apple's iPad as possible with the clear intent to deceive.

You can't make a near exact copy of a Rolex watch and then claim that you're not infringing because you wrote 'Rulex' rather than 'Rolex' on the face of the watch. That's essentially what Samsung is doing. Making a slavish copy and then saying that they should be able to get it because it's from Samsung rather than Apple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Actions such as these by Apple should be seen for exactly what they are, anti-competitive attempts to stifle the competition by any means...legal, ethical or otherwise, and very little more.

Posts such as yours should be seen for exactly what they are - proof that you have no idea what competition or intellectual property are.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #68 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


No. Apple's design patent is for a device that has ALL of those features. Please show a previous device that had ALL of those features. (Hint: you can't). All Samsung had to do was change one of the items and they'd have been OK. Look at the photos above for a few examples of how it was possible to design a product without infringing Apple's design. Instead, Samsung made a near-identical product -- so close that their own attorney couldn't tell the difference.


my tv is, thin, black, rectangular, it has rounded corners, a flat screen and is bezel. All in one device, how come did they not sue my tv company. because they arnt afraid of them.

android devices own 46% of the market. They are expected to over take apple this year, this scares apple, so they are attempting to take out the largest manufacturer of android devices, because they are SCARED of them.
post #69 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgriner View Post

my tv is, thin, black, rectangular, it has rounded corners, a flat screen and is bezel. All in one device, how come did they not sue my tv company. because they arnt afraid of them.

Your TV doesn't infringe Apple's design patent - which is why Apple hasn't sued them. Please read all the things that must be included for something to infringe Apple's design patent - many of which are not on your TV. Plus, of course, the fact that your TV is not a tablet computer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgriner View Post

android devices own 46% of the market. They are expected to over take apple this year, this scares apple, so they are attempting to take out the largest manufacturer of android devices, because they are SCARED of them.

And Apple makes more money than the rest of the industry put together. Why would Apple be scared?

If someone steals my car and I report it to the police, does that mean I'm scared? Obviously not. I'm simply protecting my property. Apple is doing the same thing.
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Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #70 of 130
All I know is, I picked up a Galaxy Player the other day and it was a dead ringer for my old iPhone 3G.

http://cdn.androidcentral.com/sites/...y-player-5.jpg
post #71 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Your TV doesn't infringe Apple's design patent - which is why Apple hasn't sued them. Please read all the things that must be included for something to infringe Apple's design patent - many of which are not on your TV. Plus, of course, the fact that your TV is not a tablet computer.



And Apple makes more money than the rest of the industry put together. Why would Apple be scared?

If someone steals my car and I report it to the police, does that mean I'm scared? Obviously not. I'm simply protecting my property. Apple is doing the same thing.

did you even read my last post MY TV HAS ALL THAT CRAP. so if apple thinks they have the right to, black,rounded corners, beveling, and flat screens...ect then my tv DOES infringe on that.

they DONT make more than the rest of the industry put together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

If someone steals my car and I report it to the police, does that mean I'm scared? Obviously not. I'm simply protecting my property. Apple is doing the same thing.

well i would say if samsung broke into the apple store and stole an ipod2 then they should give it back. lol

coke, pepsi, rc cola... ect
ford, chevy, toyota... ect
how many different companys makes blue jeans or shirts for that matter. you dont see them sueing each other because their blue jeans are blue do you. or suing for pockets in t-shirts

you dont see ford sueing chevy because they put a motor in their car?

this apple argument is the most ridiculous load of crap there is
post #72 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgriner View Post

so lets see..... apple patented the color black, rectangular shapes, rounded corners, flat screens, and bezel size, and thin stuff...... what a joke lol


sounds like apple is afraid of Samsung.

Have you ever heard of the company Rave? They make the water trampolines and rafts. They're basically round inflatable trampolines that alternate blue and yellow colors.

You can't legally make a round inflatable trampoline that alternates the colors blue and yellow. Rave owns trade dress.

...but, but, you can't patent the color blue! You can't patent a circle!

No, you can't, not in the conventional way. But you can certainly protect the look and feel of your product, based on a collection of features. It prevents consumer confusion and stops competitors from riding the leader's coattails.
post #73 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post

. It prevents consumer confusion.........

are you saying that apple users are so stupid they might get confused and buy a samsung on accident?
post #74 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

Maybe Apple should have considered the same 'design alternatives' before they used each of those design elements AFTER numerous others manufactures had be using them for years?


Those looks nothing like the iPad. If Samsung made a tablet that looked like that, I doubt Apple would have a problem with it.

Let's see... they're cluttered, have varying bezel sizes, aren't perfect rectangles (they have uneven edges), not all are black, etc.
post #75 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgriner View Post

did you even read my last post MY TV HAS ALL THAT CRAP. so if apple thinks they have the right to, black,rounded corners, beveling, and flat screens...ect then my tv DOES infringe on that.

they DONT make more than the rest of the industry put together.


well i would say if samsung broke into the apple store and stole an ipod2 then they should give it back. lol

coke, pepsi, rc cola... ect
ford, chevy, toyota... ect
how many different companys makes blue jeans or shirts for that matter. you dont see them sueing each other because their blue jeans are blue do you. or suing for pockets in t-shirts

you dont see ford sueing chevy because they put a motor in their car?

this apple argument is the most ridiculous load of crap there is

You don't think there's difference between a Ford and a Toyota? The engines are different, the bodies are different, the finish is different, the performance is different, their reliability is different, etc. And Ford would sue Chevy if Chevy copied Ford's exact motor design bit by bit.

The reason why blue jeans makers don't sue each other is because you can't patent or copyright fashion. The only part of fashion that can be protected are logos and things like the particular stitching on the rear pockets of Levi's jeans. (And while a topic for another day - the fashion industry is actually a very interesting case -- an industry that survives without copyright protection.)

What is actually a "most ridiculous load of crap" are people who make assumptions about the law off the top of their heads without researching it first. And I say that even though I don't necessarily personally agree with all of Apple's arguments in the case.

What I do agree with is this: There was no effective tablet market before Apple because no one knew how to design a tablet properly - they were all taking a PC and shoving it into the form factor of a tablet. Apple re-imagines the tablet, is enormously successful and then is copied by everyone in both the physical design of the products and in many aspects of the UI. No one was producing anything like the iPad before it came along. I'd be pissed if I were Apple as well. Obviously, there's certain aspects of that design that are inherent to a tablet. And Apple cannot protect the basic concept of a tablet. But they can and should fight against anyone who blatantly steals the total idea of their tablet and that's what Samsung has done in this case.

At this point, Apple probably doesn't even really care about Samsung's existing products. They're probably just trying to establish precedents to keep Samsung and others from blatantly copying future Apple devices.
post #76 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

You don't think there's difference between a Ford and a Toyota? The engines are different, the bodies are different, the finish is different, the performance is different, their reliability is different, etc. And Ford would sue Chevy if Chevy copied Ford's exact motor design bit by bit.

The reason why blue jeans makers don't sue each other is because you can't patent or copyright fashion. The only part of fashion that can be protected are logos and things like the particular stitching on the rear pockets of Levi's jeans. (And while a topic for another day - the fashion industry is actually a very interesting case -- an industry that survives without copyright protection.)

What is actually a "most ridiculous load of crap" are people who make assumptions about the law off the top of their heads without researching it first. And I say that even though I don't necessarily personally agree with all of Apple's arguments in the case.

What I do agree with is this: There was no effective tablet market before Apple because no one knew how to design a tablet properly - they were all taking a PC and shoving it into the form factor of a tablet. Apple re-imagines the tablet, is enormously successful and then is copied by everyone in both the physical design of the products and in many aspects of the UI. No one was producing anything like the iPad before it came along. I'd be pissed if I were Apple as well. Obviously, there's certain aspects of that design that are inherent to a tablet. And Apple cannot protect the basic concept of a tablet. But they can and should fight against anyone who blatantly steals the total idea of their tablet and that's what Samsung has done in this case.

At this point, Apple probably doesn't even really care about Samsung's existing products. They're probably just trying to establish precedents to keep Samsung and others from blatantly copying future Apple devices.

I think you're right. None of the existing "slavish copy" products are much of a threat even in places where they have been sold.

I think it's worth pointing out that the two most successful tablets are ones that were not slavish copies of the iPad - and Apple hasn't made any effort to sue them: HP Touchpad and Amazon Kindle Fire. Clearly, it is possible to create a product that has its own character and design without attracting a lawsuit from Apple. And, based on the above two examples, it looks like a successful strategy.
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post #77 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by jgriner View Post

are you saying that apple users are so stupid they might get confused and buy a samsung on accident?

Consumer confusion is a legal term. Look it up.

Here's a scenario:

Since the iPad is far and away the most dominate tablet computer and the device the majority of average people associate with tablet computing, Grandma sees an ad on the television and wants to buy one for her grandson.

She goes to the store and sees a display with a tablet who's profile looks pretty much like what she saw on the commercial. It doesn't say "iPad" on it, but the price is either the same or lower and it looks like it is pretty much the same. Not knowing the huge difference between Samsung and Apple, she buys it.

Apple's commercial just caused a sale for Samsung.
post #78 of 130
"Ferdinand Verbiest" or atleast Ford should have received billions in compensation from all car manufactures for 'copying' the design? They could have easily asked other designers to build cars that do not have 4 wheels (or else does not have round wheels??), is not operated by a 'round' steering wheel, does not use side doors for passengers to enter the car and uses something other than gasoline/diesel for the fuel. Thank god Apple did not invent this!

"Should not be thin"? I consider this to be a killer of innovation. If other manufacturers could not come up with a thin design so far does not mean they didnt want to. Just that they could not design one.

Any computer that has a flap, has built-in keyboard and runs the same OS as that of a desktop is not a MacBook. Efficiency and elegance is what it matters and that what Apple should concentrate on. They have power in this space which no one can beat.

Innovation at a fair reach to people is just. when it comes bundled with 300% profit, its greed.
post #79 of 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by rBels View Post

"Ferdinand Verbiest" or atleast Ford should have received billions in compensation from all car manufactures for 'copying' the design?

Innovation at a fair reach to people is just. when it comes bundled with 300% profit, its greed.

Let's see how many people can use the car analogy!

Do people realize many laws have changes in the last CENTURY? We're also living in a time where it doesn't take years to come out with a me-too product; it can be done in weeks.

Also, Apple doesn't make 300% profit. Besides, the price is set by what the consumer is willing to pay. That's capitalism 101. Since its successful, Apple's prices are exactly what they should be.
post #80 of 130
What Apple needs to do is stop buying parts from Samsung.
Then enter the TV market and hurt Samsung on all fronts.

And if you agree with Apple, then stop buying Samsung products and spread the word to your friends.
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