Apple may build data center near Facebook, Google operations in Oregon - Page 2

Originally Posted by 80025

Hopefully the folks in Oregon won't be complaining about Apple's failure to provide local furniture trade jobs, like the folks in North Carolina.

Originally Posted by Galbi

With our economy in shambles, these private companies are out to use extreme measures to try and avoid paying taxes.

Originally Posted by xrayeyes

The state of NC handed out over 46 million dollars in tax incentives to one of the richest companies in the world for basically 50 jobs, and not even local ones at that.

Originally Posted by SolipsismX

Apple has been using server farms for years with their extensive iTunes Store so what could these new massive server farms be used for? I don't think iCloud or Siri are going to cut it as answers.

Originally Posted by ConradJoe

See what happens, North Carolina?

Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Apple opened a massive, 500,000-square-foot data center in Maiden, N.C., earlier this year. In October, it was revealed that the company also plans to build a new solar farm opposite the data center.

Originally Posted by xrayeyes

The state of NC handed out over 46 million dollars in tax incentives to one of the richest companies in the world for basically 50 jobs, and not even local ones at that.

Let's say those 50 people buy 50 homes locally...which probably didn't happen. I guarantee most of them ended up in Charlotte. It's still in NC, fair enough. But, how 'bout if we had just given those 50 people $300,000 for new homes and they just immediately forked it over to the local economy in the way of builders, existing homes, etc. $1.5 million. Hmmmm, a bit better deal for us taxpayers. $1.5 mil vs $46 mil

Oh, so they buy goods locally too? Wow, I hope they spend over $315 mil over the next ten years so we can recoup our sales tax!

So, excuse me if I don't welcome this multibillion dollar industry that COSTS us taxpayers of NC, with open arms. I have an iPhone and I have Apple stock, but it still doesn't make me an Apple corporate lover....

Originally Posted by jragosta

They HAD to put the next one on the west coast for balance. You see, millions of data requests pumping electrons out of North Carolina. If they don't do something to balance it, the country will tip into the Pacific.



At least we can guess that they won't be building a solar center in NC.



You might start by educating yourself.

First, in spite of the tax break, Apple will be paying the state considerably more taxes than you received before. The credit has been reported as 50%, so if it's a $46 M tax break, that means that the state will be receiving $46 M in EXTRA tax revenue (although you will have to subtract out the taxes previously being charged on the farmland and forest - undoubtedly far less than $1 M). So the state gains $45 M for the next 10 years - and $90 M for the 10 years after that.

Second, your information on jobs is wrong. Apple will be creating 50 new DIRECT jobs in NC that didn't exist before. They estimate that there will be an additional 250 indirect jobs (landscaping, security, etc). 300 new jobs is enormous for a city of 3400 (probably under 2,000 total jobs.

So, in addition to the $45 M in NEW tax revenue that the state will receive, you will also get:
- 300 new jobs - all of which pay taxes and generate income that will be spent at least partially in NC
- A large number of temporary jobs to build the data center
- Purchases of goods - at least some of the items needed for the data center will be purchased locally.
- A significant number of visitors from out of town generating revenue for the area
And so on

Looking down on this deal because Apple got a discount on taxes is just plain foolish and short-sighted.

Originally Posted by SolipsismX

You might want to edit your post to make it factual and not come across as sounding crazy.

Originally Posted by xrayeyes

My husband owns a small business that employs 45 people. I can GUARANTEE that he pays more in taxes, and benefits the local economy more than the state of NC will see from this Apple facility for quite some time...if ever.

Originally Posted by xrayeyes

Do you have any facts to dispute me? And yeah, go ahead and call me names because you have nothing important to add to the conversation...

Originally Posted by xrayeyes

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...N_story_1.html

Originally Posted by xrayeyes

The 50% tax credit was for local property taxes.
Woopeee! 50 jobs for $46 million! 50 jobs were not given to anyone local. No one locally even knows anyone that works there.
Wooppee!...."possibly 250 more jobs". Do you think anyone from this small town will get them?
Significant number of visitors to a server farm? Seriously?

Originally Posted by xrayeyes

My husband owns a small business that employs 45 people. I can GUARANTEE that he pays more in taxes, and benefits the local economy more than the state of NC will see from this Apple facility for quite some time...if ever.

Originally Posted by xrayeyes

I'm from the area, so don't tell me how to "educate" myself from 3000 miles away...

Originally Posted by xrayeyes

Ok, let's forgo all the stupid bickering back and forth about the "details" of the deal.

I would love to know how many of you sympathize with the "occupiers" or follow the democrat's belief that the top wage earners in this country should be taxed at a higher rate?
If you follow either one of those ideologies, and you think this Apple deal is good for North Carolina or it's citizens (let's forget about Maiden), then you are a hypocrite!

What about my husband's business? Where are HIS tax breaks? The citizens of NC are out $46 million dollars with little to show for it. Why not give some incentives to small businesses to come here? Why give the tax breaks to one of the richest companies in the WORLD?

I couldn't give a rat's a** about the 50 jobs, but the $46 mil tax break get's the best of me. It simply isn't fair when we break our backs to pay our fair share.

Originally Posted by SolipsismX

You are ridiculous and a hypocrit because you know very well the breaks a business with 50 heads gets from businesses than an individual would not.

This is where you chime with your rhetoric about how governments are businesses while ignoring the fact that governments need revenue to function and that Apple, Facebook nor any other company was require to do business in a specific town, municipality, city, county, or state. Even countries offer incentives (you can learn a new word word today) to entice corporations to do business within their borders.

Again, show us where Maiden or NC has not made a net gain from Apple building the data center. What does maiden or NC if corporations took their business elsewhere because other states offered lower taxes than Maiden or NC? Surely you have rudimentary understanding of econonics behind your unteilding greed. Or not. I bet you think Apple's 23k sqft anchor store in GCS is wrong because a tiny fast food place pays more per sqft.

Originally Posted by xrayeyes

Did you READ my statement or just gloss over it? I said my husband's business! Where did you get anything about an individual tax break?.

And so I'm greedy because I want tax breaks for a small business? LOL! Unless you've run a business you have no idea what we're dealing with when it comes to economics. We have 45 people's lives at stake...people we care about---pay full insurance on and provide many other benefits. I wonder how long that will last if our taxes keep going up to cover the businesses that DON"T pay their fair share.

Originally Posted by MacTel

It would be a hoot if Apple were using Dells in their data centers. More likely a custom server that will never see the like of day outside of Apple. Probably using AMD processors.

Originally Posted by xrayeyes

http://www.washingtonpost.com/busine...N_story_1.html


The 50% tax credit was for local property taxes.
Woopeee! 50 jobs for $46 million! 50 jobs were not given to anyone local. No one locally even knows anyone that works there.
Wooppee!...."possibly 250 more jobs". Do you think anyone from this small town will get them?
Significant number of visitors to a server farm? Seriously?

My husband owns a small business that employs 45 people. I can GUARANTEE that he pays more in taxes, and benefits the local economy more than the state of NC will see from this Apple facility for quite some time...if ever.

I'm from the area, so don't tell me how to "educate" myself from 3000 miles away...

Originally Posted by xrayeyes

I couldn't give a rat's a** about the 50 jobs, but the $46 mil tax break get's the best of me. It simply isn't fair when we break our backs to pay our fair share.

Originally Posted by jragosta

I don't care what kind of business your husband owns. You're incompetent to discuss the issue because you don't know what you're talking about and you're letting your hatred interfere with rational thinking.

Here are the facts:

1. Before Apple bought the land, it was forest and farm and a couple of cheap houses. Real estate taxes were low, probably well under $1 M per year (I think there are something like 1000 acres, taxes were probably around $100 per acre on average, so the total would be $100 K per year).

2. If Apple paid full taxes, they'd be paying $9.2 M per year ($92 M for 10 years). But Apple got a better deal elsewhere so if NC had demanded the full amount of taxes, they would actually have gotten zero

3. Instead of accepting zero (or the $1 M that they're currently getting for the next 10 years), the state agreed to let Apple pay less taxes in order to get Apple there. So the state will get an additional $45 M that it doesn't have now. In addition, of course, the state gets 300 new jobs and all the other spending that goes with it. PLUS, after 10 years, that goes up to $9.2 M per year.

So, your position is that the state should have stubbornly refused to offer Apple a discount and instead walked away with nothing? No wonder it's your husband who owns the business and not you. You'd be bankrupt.



See above. The state is getting $45 M in revenue that it wouldn't otherwise have. Sounds like a pretty good deal to me.

Originally Posted by xrayeyes

Where are you getting the 9.2 mil/year and 50% discount? Do you have any facts to back up that data? The only data I have seen anywhere is the 46 mil tax incentive...total tax break for 10 years. The 50% discount is local taxes.

I own the business with my husband….

You guys all lose just as much credibility with the name calling.

Originally Posted by stelligent

They also have been relying on Amazon and others for years. Perhaps this is about weaning off 3rd parties, or at least becoming less dependent. Regardless, as more devices are sold, iCloud alone will demand greater and greater investment in server farms. In fact, it's possible that the NC facility couldn't meet iCloud demands and they have had to spend more on Amazon and Microsoft.

Originally Posted by xrayeyes

Unless you understand NC corporate laws and my particular situation, you don't know jack about my reasons for not being "specific" with our business venture. We're married...'nuff said.

And unless I see some data to back up the 50% claim, it doesn't wash. I can read his statement, but there is no fact there. I have read 50% off local taxes. Not 50% for state.
Where's the data to back it up?

So, calling me greedy, idiot, uneducated... Adjective...sure. euphemism for name calling. Right....I get it.....

Originally Posted by stelligent

This is probably the wrong forum for it, but the genie is out of the bottle ...

Much emphasis has been placed on the *mere* 50 new jobs introduced by Apple by building this server farm. In reality, a facility of that size cannot be operated by 50 people. Others have been moved there to help run the joint. Presumably, they are not transients and have become full-time, tax-paying residents and consumers. That cannot be a bad thing?

I'm willing to bet that a number of construction workers did come through as *transients* while building the facility. That must have brought at least a short term boost to the local economy?

Originally Posted by xrayeyes

Unless you understand NC corporate laws and my particular situation, you don't know jack about my reasons for not being "specific" with our business venture. We're married...'nuff said.

And unless I see some data to back up the 50% claim, it doesn't wash. I can read his statement, but there is no fact there. I have read 50% off local taxes. Not 50% for state.
Where's the data to back it up?

So, calling me greedy, idiot, uneducated... Adjective...sure. euphemism for name calling. Right....I get it.....

Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy

It's OK for you to make claims about what is and is not ACTUALLY happening there - based on what YOU read in a newspaper published in another state, which based it's findings on speculation - and then you take umbrage for someone presenting facts (thanks jragosta btw for the analysis) that are actually on the table which by the way only barely touched on the fact that you have scheduled another 500,000 sq ft expansion, which will impact local/county/state construction workers as a job site, you have, in addition to the "50" jobs added locally among a population which seems to have no technical background whatsoever (this based of course on that article you seem to like so well) an additional population to pay more property taxes, buy more local goods and services.

I know your state and local tax system because my current company has facilities in NC. jragosta nailed it - you are OCD'd on the discount rather than the money actually being paid by Apple to be there in the first place. You refuse to accept the obvious - that there is a net gain by Apple being there - including upgrades and improvements over time to local infrastructure, regardless of the tax discount. And the people you should be bitching to are your local and state politicos, not an Apple fan blog. Perhaps this is why your company only employs 45 people, you have no clue how things work outside your own little set of preconceived notions. I have created and sold two businesses of your size or larger in my 50 some years of experience, between stints at Fortune 50 companies. Get off your high horse and look at the whole picture. Your analysis is fundamentally flawed, you demand that your comments be accepted at face value when you casually dismiss facts in evidence. Just. Stop.

Originally Posted by justbobf

tax breaks? Corporate welfare. Should not be allowed.

Originally Posted by Galbi

With our economy in shambles, these private companies are out to use extreme measures to try and avoid paying taxes.

So much for being corporate citizens.

"Buy American." Yeah, okay buddy.

Originally Posted by xrayeyes

The state of NC handed out over 46 million dollars in tax incentives

to one of the richest companies in the world

for basically 50 jobs

and not even local ones at that.

Let's say those 50 people buy 50 homes locally...which probably didn't happen. I guarantee most of them ended up in Charlotte. It's still in NC, fair enough. But, how 'bout if we had just given those 50 people $300,000 for new homes and they just immediately forked it over to the local economy in the way of builders, existing homes, etc. $1.5 million. Hmmmm, a bit better deal for us taxpayers. $1.5 mil vs $46 mil

Oh, so they buy goods locally too? Wow, I hope they spend over $315 mil over the next ten years so we can recoup our sales tax!

So, excuse me if I don't welcome this multibillion dollar industry that COSTS us taxpayers of NC

I have an iPhone and I have Apple stock, but it still doesn't make me an Apple corporate lover....

Originally Posted by xrayeyes

What about my husband's business? Where are HIS tax breaks?

The citizens of NC are out $46 million dollars

with little to show for it.

Why not give some incentives to small businesses to come here?

Why give the tax breaks to one of the richest companies in the WORLD?

I couldn't give a rat's a** about the 50 jobs, but the $46 mil tax break get's the best of me.

It simply isn't fair when we break our backs to pay our fair share.

Originally Posted by xrayeyes

Meanwhile, our business will go on to pay our usual inflated taxes so Apple can get their precious break.

And what the heck does our employee base have anything to do with the growth or measure of our business?

I can't believe the level you guys have berated me, all because I'm not stuck up Apple's butt!

But, really I can't blame them for taking advantage of the idiocy of our state.

If you think I'm the only one upset by the trend of incentives, you will find many upset North Carolinian's concerning the recent Chiquita deal....

Originally Posted by jragosta

At least we can guess that they won't be building a solar center in NC.