US judge says Samsung tablets unlikely to attract Apple's customers - Page 2

did i mention,
you morons need to get a life...

I'm sorry if your trolling attempts to get some negative attention didn't work out but it was pretty weak, and very scatterbrained. Perhaps you could edit your post so you're attacks don't just make us roll our eyes and feel sorry for you.

To quote from MacRumors, "the fact that Apple has been willing to license the feature (scrolling) to other companies for monetary compensation also undermines its argument that it is being irreparably harmed by Samsung's alleged infringement. In Koh's view, if Apple could be adequately compensated for the infringement through a license by Samsung, Apple could be made whole at a later date without the need for a preliminary injunction at this point in the trial."

Hmm, Samsung is a Korean chaebol. Koh is an American District Court judge of direct Korean descent. Seems the 'Apple' doesn't fall very far from her tree.

Ditto. Samsung has seen it's last TV purchase from me. (Sharp has a better picture anyway, so that's probably going to be my next one unless Apple put out something just as good).

Whoa. There are still people who would put all Japanese-born Americans in camps as during the war... amazing. Please, please go back to your cave, mate with other cavemen. Avoid cavewomen, the world doesn't need your racist kids.

What a stupid argument. Who are "Apple's customers?" Does that mean that certain, large groups of people will only consider Apple, and others will only consider Samsung? The market is not finite...Apple can get new customers, as it is doing. The real question is how many customers would Apple lose because the copyist's (love that term) product is available.

Some of you seem confused so I'm going to try to clarify things. This case was NOT whether Samsung infringed on Apple patent(s) but an attempt of Apple to get a ban on Samsung to sell devices until the patent trial is settled. The burden of proof is on Apple that their business is being irreparably harmed by the sale of Samsungs product. The evidence did not prove that and no judge would've awarded an injunction that would without a doubt irreparably hurt Samsungs business.

when did i say the entire decision is on the merits?
I even qualified my statement by marking that it is not a simple inverse.

Also go read the actual ruling before making assumptions.
(and if you did that already, I seriously doubt your understanding of the process.)

The reason why Samsung could win the preliminary injunction against the Galaxy Tab 10.1 was more related to the invalidity of the iPad-related design patents.
(sure, Samsung could try irreparable harm and prevail the motion as a shortcut, but this was a better move because it actually weakened the value of the patent.)

Whereas, you are right, the iPhone 4 v. Galaxy Smartphones are based on irreparable harm arguments. But did I really have to explain in this detail?

Funny, and don't tell me not to post anymore.

Have you been to South Korea and seen for yourself what it's really like? LA's Koreatown is not a microcosm of South Korea. In South Korea, kids and adults love playing COD Modern Warfare and BattleField 3 on their PCs, XBOX 360s or PS3s. If you're a teenager who can't play Blizzard's Warcraft or Starcraft, you won't have much to talk about with your peers in high school. And the hottest smartphone in South Korea is the iPhone 4S. Go to one of the hundreds of Starbucks in South Korea and you'll see people typing on their macbook airs or macbook pros. If Koreans are so nationalistic how did Apple rack up $2 billion in sales in South Korea last year? You think South Koreans adore Samsung? You really don't know anything about the country. Maybe you know a lot about Korean-Americans but your statements about Koreans in general are grossly misleading. By the way, if a South Korean can afford it, he or she will drive a BMW or Audi rather than a Hyundai. You don't know how status conscious South Koreans are, do you? After a visit to South Korea, Paul Kennedy wrote in the NY times that "I don’t think I have seen so many Bentleys in any one place." (Why South Korea Isn't Asia's Switzerland, August 27, 2010)

Samsung gets off NOT because they weren't infringing, but because they are not good enough to pose a threat.

Of course, for the Apple haters, this will be PROOF that there wasn't any infringement....

... oh well. It's just a company; I just prefer Apple products. Samsung needs to innovate or it isn't lawsuits they have to worry about.


Hopefully we will be talking about more interesting things in the near future.

That's a GREAT distinction - and I think entirely accurate.

This case again is about STOPPING a product from shipping -- which means proving harm. Since Apple will not likely be harmed, the injunction does not go forward.

It has ZERO to do with infringement.

>> But I find it funny that Samsung "won" the case because their prospects are dim.

Some Koreans are also shunning Samsung products but for different reasons. Samsung gets away with too many shennigans just like Wall Street firms.

So you do know a lot about the country? You're actually saying that Korea has fundamentally changed in terms of buying almost exclusively their own cars now? Really? I'd say you might want to open your eyes a bit more the next time you cross a street in Seoul, Pusan, Daegu, etc. I remember not too many years ago when they'd vandalize American or Japanese cars and it seems their 'buy only local cars' nationalism hasn't subsided much at all.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/201...-local-models/

you MIGHT be right -- then again you might not.

I think it's best to give people the benefit of the doubt. In this case, I think the Judge's decision was the correct one based on;
1) Apple is not likely to be financially harmed.
2) The "copying" Samsung HAS DONE can be paid for later by licensing.

>> Stopping a company from shipping a product is a drastic measure and does not occur based on "theft of IP or copyright" -- it only happens when the Plaintiff can be harmed.

In this case, Samsung is guilty, but not going to harm Apple.

Not every Korean or American makes decisions based on a Nationalist agenda -- and it's better to err on the side of IGNORING people's motives unless you have proof, or unless they happen to be part of a group with a history of prejudice.

Chevrolet is the third largest car brand in South Korea. And BMW is closing in on making $1 billion in annual profits in South Korea this year although they sell much fewer cars than Hyundai and Kia. That article you cite seems to have been written by some amateur who was too lazy to analyze the sales figures. Apple has a small share of the global mobile phone market but they take the lion's share of the profits, right? So a well-written article would have included data on profits too, wouldn't you agree?

But you fail to mention what a very very DISTANT third place that is. Let me help you.

http://www.hyundai-blog.com/index.ph...rand-in-korea/

"Hyundai Motor Company, the top-selling automobile brand in Korea
Apr.04, 2011 in Hyundai cars, Hyundai Sales Reports
Hyundai-Kia Automotive Group enjoy brisk sales in Korea; takes 81 percent of the new automobile market share in March 2011!
According to latest reports from South Korea, Hyundai Motor Company, together with Kia Motors, enjoyed strong sales gains in the local market with their combined domestic sales totaling at 108.113 units! The carmaker’s joint market share stood at 81,1 percent" [and that's actually UP from 78% of the domestic market share last year].

Did you even read the other link in my previous post? Here's another from the horses mouth (italics added). http://autonews.gasgoo.com/global-ne...s-110404.shtml

South Korea: Market share for foreign cars rises
From Korea JoongAng DailyApril 04, 2011
Korea JoongAng Daily - With Korea’s economic recovery, sales of imported cars surged last year.

"Competition is expected to become fiercer this year as domestic and foreign automobiles introduce more models in Korea as revealed during the current 2011 Seoul Motor Show.

Foreign car brands are expected to achieve a market share of more than 10 percent this year for the first time as customers are attracted by greater variety of more affordable models."

"More than 10%" means that even in 2011 Koreans buy about 90% of their cars from Korean manufacturers such as Kia, Hyundai, etc. But anyone who's ever actually been there for more than one hour already knows this. Perhaps Americans should also be so patriotic?

Again, you make some good, valid points but you're ignoring the fact that Chevrolet is categorized as a domestic manufacturer in South Korea. And where is the market trending? Some import brands are seeing their sales increase 300% in a single year. I hate to repeat myself but if a South Korean can afford a BMW, he'll buy it rather than buy a Hyundai. With Hyundai you get affordability, not prestige or status. Patriotism? Well, maybe folks who lived through the Korean War still make purchases based on patriotic values. But not the rest of us. On a side note, did you notice that Samsung is not suing Apple in Korean courts? Because Samsung is seen by many South Koreans as being in collusion with the Korean gov't, Samsung would not dare to apply for an injunction in its own country lest it anger South Korean consumers due to the likelihood that the court will side with Samsung and thus deny consumers the ability to buy an iPhone.

Well this is certainly off the topic of the Samsung/Apple decision but seeing as you want to go there, why not? I have no beef with the current generation of Japanese but if you're going to make historical analogies you picked a really, really bad one. The policy of interning Japanese-Americans during WW2 was undoubtedly wrong but it paled mightily in comparison with the Japanese Imperial Army's treatment of Anglo-Saxons, Blacks, Chinese, Russians, Koreans, you name it in their POW camps. Torture, rape, slavery, starvation and beheadings were par for the course. Or does your version of history choose, like pretty much every Japanese school textbook published since 1946 (or like every Chinese textbook's 'special version' of Tibetan history published today), to gloss over those facts? The American and Canadian governments have long since apologized for their actions during that time. Guess who hasn't?

Your ignorance of both basic history and denial of current uber-nationalism in countries other than America (yes, Korea, yes China) suggest a typical reverse-racist mindset. Whitey has never had a monopoly on racism or empire-building and you'd be incredibly foolish to believe otherwise.

Apple success if a double edged sword.

If you have a commanding market share of the tablet market, why are you after the rest of the others?

Based on frivolous "design patents" are ridiculous.

More often than not, the US justice system looks at the overall picture which includes the market place, rather than strict rules of what is said on the patent system.

Have you ever been there? As I said, if you have you'll already know that all it takes is a quick glance at the cars passing by to see that "market trending" or nay 'Made-in (and by) Korea 'continues to hold, as does a Korean "buy local" mindset. Did you simply ignore the figures I just posted (that the Kia-Hyundai market share actually increased in Korea from 78% in 2010 to 81% in 2011. The Korean media and auto manufacturers acknowledge this, so are you now saying their figures are wrong too? That some (unnamed) foreign brand has increased sales there by 300% might seem like an impressive jump, but when your starting market share is only .002% to begin with, or something equally insignificant, it doesn't mean much at all when total Korean-owned brands are continuing to climb too.

I wouldn't be holding my breath on that if I were you.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/09...ne_5_in_korea/

The reason for that is simple and not based on patriotic values. Most Koreans can only afford the cheap cars made by Hyundai-Kia. The average price of a sold vehicle in Korea is lower than the average price in the U.S., Japan, or Germany. Once BMW closely matched the price of its 5 series to the Hyundai Genesis, guess what happened? Sales of the Genesis plummeted while the 5 series' sales propelled BMW to its record profit year in Korea. So please stop repeating your claim that Koreans have a "buy local" mindset because it is not as prevalent as you think it is. And I've lived in South Korea for most of my life.

Sorry to sound blunt, but for you to suggest that Koreans OVERWHELMINGLY buying local brands isn't tied to patriotic values is pure ignorance on your part. I don't claim that this is the case with every single Korean but it IS an incredibly nationalistic, even xenophobic nation. I have to ask you again if you've ever even been there? Or perhaps you are Korean yourself?

You could be entirely right if this were 1997 or even 2007. But in 2011, the under-40 South Koreans don't give a damn about national champions like Samsung and Hyundai. When chaebols make money, they buy a $60 million private jet. That's what Hyundai's chairman did after he cut 2000 jobs in the Ulsan Hyundai plant and moved them offshore to.... the US of A. Yes, I am Korean.

The other difference in this situation is the amount of money and brand recognition Samsung has vs. that of Psystar.

A U.S. judge is going to be much more considerate of a global multi-national with deep pockets (deep enough to bribe numerous elected and appointed officials in South Korea for YEARS)...because Samsung likely has highly influential political 'friends' in the U.S. The wealthy generally get away with theft - whether it's land (think North and South 'America'), people (think slavery), and our banking system. The law does not in truth consider all persons as equal. Which is why the pickpocket, petty thief, and drug-user go to jail.

Oh, and to echo someone earlier, I definitely won't be purchasing Samsung products. I know that I can't control the components used in a device which I purchase, but I can avoid purchasing branded Samsung products. In fact, I just did - I purchased an LG smart/internet-hdtv with wireless etc, and I purposefully excluded Samsung from all of my product comparison evaluations. I know it's small potatoes to a company like Samsung, but I won't be giving them my dollars willingly. And, on the subject of components, it seems apparent that Apple IS migrating their manufacturing to other suppliers (just with the manufacturing placements with Sharp and Fujitsu recently in the press). I would imagine that this has been a huge focus for them over at least the last year+.

I'm really interested in the Note as a phone and notebook replacement. For reference, I borrowed a friend's iPad2 with a stylus; I've heard the capacitive tablets are pretty crap for drawing and I can now confirm that. Just gotta get myself to a store to try the S-pen so I can compare.

The one thing making me wary of buying the Note is that it seems logical they would come out with a S-pen enabled Tab pretty soon, and then I might want the tablet and a slimmer, non-Note phone?

So you mean that the tens of thousands of Koreans who took to the streets in 2008 (read link and see amazing pics below) to protest something as seemingly unimportant as imports of US beef into South Korea were only having a momentary, unexplained withdrawal into uber-nationalism/protectionism to relive the glory years of 2002's 'Be the Reds'? Or that these same people would now (only three years later) 'logically' prefer to buy an American car than a Korean one? Dude, c'mon we weren't born yesterday.

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/200...s_over_us.html

But no matter what you say, the 81% market share enjoyed by Hyundai and Kia in Korea (up from last year) speaks for itself. End of story.

The first commenter who posted on the Boston.com link and was at the demonstration said "...this protest has little to do with US." "I never heard a single voice against US itself. People are simply there to "catch mouse(a nickname for our president)."

So what is your point? You want people here to know that South Koreans detest their president? I don't think people would be interested to know that although it generates news headlines in South Korea.

If Apple's lawsuit is tossed out and Samsung gets off scotch-free, do you think South Koreans will get so incensed over Apple's "frivolous" IP case that they will boycott Nike shoes, Starbucks coffee, McDonalds hamburgers, Citibank banking services, Burger King hamburgers, KFC chicken, Coca-Cola sodas, P&G skin and hair products, Coffee Bean & Tea Leaf beverages, Microsoft Windows 7, HP laptops, Gatorade, Intel chips, Columbia sportswear, Boeing planes, and last but not least Apple products that are all sold in Korea and bring huge profits to these American companies? I'm not proud of Samsung. But South Koreans wouldn't want to put a knife into Boeing's business if their planes crash with Korean passengers on board due to a faulty plane part.

Wow. So now you're actually saying that there are no massive anti-US demonstrations in Korea. It's become a part of the culture. Beef imports, Walmart, American plots to take credit for 'Dr' Hwang's 'stem cell miracles', the schoolgirl accident demonstrations that went on and on and on, tirades against Anton Ohno (the American-Jaoanese skater), etc. etc. Do you want me to post the hundreds of links and photos that are out there for anyone to see of hilarious Korean nationalism and xenophobia? Where exactly have YOU been living since 2001? Clearly NOT in South Korea unless you're bind or in denial.

If you want to focus on the actions of some ignorant people and describe them as representing the majority then that's your prerogative. A lot of people around the world probably think Americans are warmongering folks with a southern accent like Bush.

Btw, Costco stores are doing great in South Korea. There are about 4 Costco stores in Seoul alone. Wal-mart closed because their stores were just average.

You're making this far too easy for me.

In FACT, Koreans basically stay away from these types of foreign companies, which usually end up being driven out of business or being sold off to Korean competitors. Carrefour Korea had to sell all of its 32 outlets to Korean company E-Land in 2006, and Wal-Mart had to be sold to another Korean company, Shinsegae Department Stores.

But that's just the tip of the iceberg. Google were boycotted by Koreans so local search engines Daum and Naver dominate. As another example, I can distinctly remember trying to find the latest Nokia cell phones there always to be told by shop owners that they were "out of stock". In fact they never carried the latest foreign models and by great coincidence, about six months later LG or Samsung would come out with a phone that totally aped Nokia's latest technology.

Korean universities would simultaneously use pirated versions of Windows throughout all their departments but buy only Samsung or LG computers for their faculty and staff. They would also photocopy thousands of foreign textbooks and even sell them to Korean students (at times even changing the names of the foreign authors to a Korean name, I kid you not.)

It's a sad fact, Koreans will make just about any foreign company operating in Korea go bankrupt if they possibly can. The exceptions seem to be some western franchise operations like MacDonald's or Starbucks which are owned locally by Koreans. And I won't even go into the blatant logo infringement of the Starbucks logo by Korean coffee shop chain StarPreya (http://www.seattlepi.com/business/ar...-s-1216969.php ) Not surprisingly, the Korean patent court sided with the Korean company even when the ripoff was totally obvious to anyone.

Do you want me to go into how K-pop bands have been sued time and time again by western musicians who get tired of seeing their songs ripped of by these cheesy Korean “musicians”? But then again you probably deny that SamDung have completely ripped off the form factor (albeit not the function, lol) of Apple’s iPad.

Keep the denials coming, I’m happy to refute them with more and more (and yet more) examples of rampant Korean protectionism, xenophobia, and blatant ripoffs of western or Japanese products (that list is much longer than my arm will ever be). It'd really just be easier for you if you admitted that it's not just a "few individuals" but rather, a national tendency. Apple is right to take this fight to the courts and I wish them well.

You might be interested to know that Samsung lost its case for trying to suspend iPhone 4S in France, and condemned to pay the expenses of the trial.

Enough of a majority of voting Americans (southern accent or not) voted for Bush the second time around that they might have been be correct to make that generalization. No contretemps ("The French don't have a word for that" ) from me there.

Every Samsung or LG laptop comes preinstalled with Microsoft Windows.

The majority of cheesy K-pop songs were ripped off from J-pop. Yes, some western songs were ripped off too but they were quickly called out for copying by South Korean listeners and the songs would fall out of the charts. Have you listened to the tracks "MMMbop" and "Unpretty?" They're pretty much the same. But the Hanson Brothers didn't sue TLC. And "Unpretty" charted pretty well in the top 40.

[QUOTE=eric475;2003682]

I'm not sure why you're posting my comments and nothing else, but....ok. As you like.

So you claim that Koreans won't shop at a foreign retailer like Costco. Then why does Costco keep opening another store in Daegu and Busan? Very strange.

And I've never seen a StarPreya coffee shop anywhere in Apkujeong, Gangnam or anywhere in the country for that matter. That Korean company might have won in the courts but their business went to the dumps.

McDonalds, KFC, Domino's Pizza, TGI Fridays, Microsoft, BMW, P&G, Mercedes-Benz, Citibank, Lone Star Funds, Nike, The North Face, Starbucks, Boeing, U.S. defense contractors and Apple are doing quite fine here. Lone Star Funds made $4 billion this year alone just in South Korea. And the fund made off with $2 billion in the preceding years.

There is a bias towards procuring military weapons only from the U.S. So I guess South Korea is not being fair to European defense contractors in that regard.

It's funny that you take Nokia as an example because you really don't know your facts. Nokia had a factory making cell phones in South Korea back in the 80s but they didn't see much potential in the nascent South Korean mobile phone market. So they just exported the phones and didn't try to sell their phones here. Nokia's CEO admitted that they should have taken South Korean manufacturers seriously but the Finnish execs thought they were better than some scrappy South Korean maker that nobody in the world had ever heard of. When Nokia finally woke up and tried to sell their cheap bar phones in South Korea they sold them at the retail price of $800. You think a South Korean consumer would be willing to pay $800 for a bar phone in the early 90s? Back in the 90s, that's more than half the monthly salary of a typical South Korean worker.

Nokia eventually pulled out of South Korea because their $800 bar phone wasn't selling well. And years later, Nokia's CEO admitted they committed a big blunder by pulling out. If Nokia had stayed and taken the competition seriously, he said Nokia wouldn't be where it was at the time. Don't blame the shop owner, please. Blame the execs in Finland who pulled the plug around the time you were shopping for a Nokia.

(Btw, the Nokia bar phone might have been priced at upwards of $1200 in Korea. I vaguely recall my mom saying she couldn't afford the Nokia phone because it was over $1000. So she ended up buying a phone from Nokia's inferior competitor. And of course, it broke down often. So their CEO had a fit over the phone's poor quality and burned a pile of them to show what a disgraceful product it was to his employees.)