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Mitt Romney for President - Page 2

post #41 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Romney is a RINO. What's the point of winning, or even having a party, if you don't have different ideas to the other guy?

Romney is a Republican, probably right of Reagan. Obama is also (in practice, according to his record) right of Reagan. It would be fair to call Obama a DINO, but calling Romney a RINO is ignoring the intense shift to the right of the Republican party.
post #42 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Oops, I meant delegates, not super delegates. But you get the point.

Ron Paul's momentum has been steadily building and will continue to build now that he is clearly a top tier candidate. He's in it for the long-haul and so are his supporters. It's going to be an interesting ride.

He's going to finish a low second or even third in NH. His chances for the nomination are less than Huntman's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Romney is a RINO. What's the point of winning, or even having a party, if you don't have different ideas to the other guy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Romney is a Republican, probably right of Reagan. Obama is also (in practice, according to his record) right of Reagan. It would be fair to call Obama a DINO, but calling Romney a RINO is ignoring the intense shift to the right of the Republican party.

I disagree with both of you on this one. Romney is conservative, but I don't think he's right of Reagan. Obama is certainly not right of Reagan. In fact, that's laughable.
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post #43 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

He's going to finish a low second or even third in NH. His chances for the nomination are less than Huntman's.



And Romney's chances of beating Obama are less than Ron Paul's.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #44 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post



And Romney's chances of beating Obama are less than Ron Paul's.

Delusional.
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post #45 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Delusional.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #46 of 693
Actually, I agree with Jazzy here. Ron Paul has by far the best chance against Obama.

Let me ask you this, SDW, if it were Paul vs. Obama, who would you vote for? That's right. EVERY REPUBLICAN would vote for Ron Paul. Then you have all the Jazzys and Sammi Jos, and the Fellowships, and maybe even some of the Liberals who are sick of Obama's lack of direction. Paul would win.

This is not the case with any of the other Republican candidates, even Romney.
post #47 of 693
Exactly, ton. Because I guarantee you a big chunk of Ron Paul supporters WILL NOT vote for an establishment GOP candidate and instead will vote Third Party or not vote at all.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #48 of 693
Lessons from the Iowa Caucus

Transcript:

Quote:
Does the government work for us, or do we work for the government?

Can a man who essentially agrees with President Obama on all the key issues realistically become the Republican nominee for president? Tonight, the tale of the Iowa caucuses.

Happy New Year, America, from our Freedom Watch team to you and thanks for inviting us into your homes tonight. Regrettably the news is not all happy.

While we were on a Christmas break the President of the United States of America violated his oath to uphold the constitution by signing into a law a statute that purports to give him the authority to use the military to arrest Americans on American soil, and to confine those arrested to a jail in Cuba away from judges, juries, and lawyers for as long as the President wants.

This directly violates the Constitution's guarantee of due process, which requires a jury trial before the government can take anyone's life, liberty, or property.

Do you know anybody who voted for this hateful statute? I bet you do. It passed both houses of Congress overwhelmingly. Only libertarians on the right and progressives on the left opposed it. All Republican candidates for their party's nomination – except Ron Paul – support it.

The Republican candidates faced off against each other in the format of the now well-known (and somewhat mysterious) Iowa caucuses last night and the results were very interesting. There was effectively a tie for first place between Governor Mitt Romney and Senator Rick Santorum who each won 25% of the vote. Congressman Ron Paul won 22% of the vote and finished either second or third depending upon whether you think that an 8 vote difference – out of 125,000 votes cast – between Romney and Santorum is effectively a tie.

These two candidates actually struggle to find differences between each other. And they did so over personality and personal history. Both claim to be pro-life, yet Santorum once held his nose and voted to fund abortions and Romney once openly and gleefully endorsed them. Both like the idea of a government at home as a mechanism to do for people what they cannot do for themselves no matter what the Constitution says. And both want the government abroad to threaten other countries into conforming their behavior to what the U.S. expects of them.

In my view, the Santorum vote was a “flash in the pan” for the senator rejected by his home state. And the Romney vote was very troubling for him.

Mitt Romney is obviously the choice of the Republican establishment. Those are the folks who brought us TARP and “stimulus”, wars fought on credit cards, federal agents writing their own search warrants, and the federal government taking over education.

Mitt Romney believes in all these things, but here's the crusher: so does President Obama. There's not a dime's worth of difference between them. Name the topic on which the President has a real say and they agree.

Can the government mandate healthcare? “Yes” from both.

Should income taxes stay where they are on those who pay the most? “Yes” from both.

Can the President start a war on his own without a declaration of war from the Congress? “Yes” from both.

Can the President kill any American he wants? Incredibly, “yes” from both.

Oh, there is some difference in tone. One of them likes labor unions and the other one likes big business. But both love big government – a concept that was rejected by the 22% of Iowa Republicans who voted for Congressman Paul.

That's the ideological argument against Mitt Romney. Everyone from John Bolton to Rush Limbaugh has said that Romney is simply no small-government conservative. So have 75% of Iowa Republicans.

Think about it. Governor Romney has been campaigning in Iowa since 2008. He's spent more money there than any other candidate and he either tied or won “by a nose” to a former senator who had no organization and no cash. Governor Romney actually attracted a lower percentage of Iowa Republicans this year than he did four years ago. And in poll after poll 75% of Republicans nation-wide reject him.

So where does this leave us? It manifests what Freedom Watch and Tea Party Republicans have been saying for the past year:

There is a hunger in the land for a game-changer, and Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum are not up to that.

There is a need in the country for a government that stays within the confines of the Constitution or we'll all end up like the socialists in Europe. And Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum are not up to that.

There is a rumbling in the countryside that the government should shrink and live within its means. And Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum are not going to make that happen.

The race is getting tight and Michelle Bachmann is out. John Huntsman and Rick Perry will probably be out after New Hampshire.

Only one man remains faithful to the principles of free market and small government, to the Constitution and to personal freedom, to defending the nation without being the world's police force. Only one. You know who he is.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #49 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post


There is nothing to support your statement that Romney has less of a chance to beat Obama than Ron Paul. Ron Paul's numbers are far below that of Romney's in a general election matchup. I know of no politically knowledgeable person that agrees with you here. That's why it's delusional on your part.
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post #50 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

There is nothing to support your statement that Romney has less of a chance to beat Obama than Ron Paul. Ron Paul's numbers are far below that of Romney's in a general election matchup. I know of no politically knowledgeable person that agrees with you here. That's why it's delusional on your part.

Yes, we know. Everyone who doesn't agree with you is delusional.
post #51 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

There is nothing to support your statement that Romney has less of a chance to beat Obama than Ron Paul. Ron Paul's numbers are far below that of Romney's in a general election matchup. I know of no politically knowledgeable person that agrees with you here. That's why it's delusional on your part.

There are a lot of things you don't know. And you are not making an effort to know them.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #52 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Actually, I agree with Jazzy here. Ron Paul has by far the best chance against Obama.

Let me ask you this, SDW, if it were Paul vs. Obama, who would you vote for?

I would probably very reluctantly vote for Paul. Or, I may not vote.

Quote:
That's right. EVERY REPUBLICAN would vote for Ron Paul.

That's false. Security-minded Republicans will have a tough time voting for him, as will Financial sector folks.

Quote:
Then you have all the Jazzys and Sammi Jos, and the Fellowships, and maybe even some of the Liberals who are sick of Obama's lack of direction. Paul would win.

This is not the case with any of the other Republican candidates, even Romney.

I disagree, and so do the pundits...so do the polls. Paul will take libertarians and some moderate Republicans...maybe even a few liberals. He'll do well among young people, first time voters, etc. But he'll lose a lot of key blocks. Security-minded Republicans will have a tough time voting for him. Economic-sector Republicans think his Gold Standard ideas are nuts. He'll lose blacks and hispanics. He'll lose moderates to Obama, who will make him look "zany." He'll lose the Left. He'll win some of the same Republicans McCain did, who just held their nose and pulled the lever. He'll win libertarians and maybe a few truly "liberal" folks. Obama will win this election though..make no mistake.

As for Romney, I don't buy all of the "25 percenter" and "Massachusetts Moderate" attacks. He's broadly acceptable to almost all Republicans, except the nutty Paul supporters and Iowa Corn-Huckabees. Fiscal conservatives will vote for him. Security-conservatives will vote for him. Moderates, growing tired of Obama, will vote for him. The business community will favor him. The financial sector will favor him. Social conservatives will favor him for the most part. Even some centrist Dems will vote for him. Obama will be left holding a bag of the un-enthused far left and the mainstream left. Romney will beat him handily barring any major geopolitical shakeup.
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post #53 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Yes, we know. Everyone who doesn't agree with you is delusional.

Isn't it funny how it's usually the people with imaginary friends they talk to every night that call others delusional?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #54 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Yes, we know. Everyone who doesn't agree with you is delusional.

I'll delusional over stupid and evil any day of the week because that is what the left maintains about anyone who disagrees with them.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #55 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Yes, we know. Everyone who doesn't agree with you is delusional.

That is not true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

There are a lot of things you don't know. And you are not making an effort to know them.

Go ahead, jazz...show me just ONE credible political analyst saying Paul has any realistic shot at winning the nomination. Show me ONE poll where he does better than Romney against Obama.
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post #56 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Go ahead, jazz...show me just ONE credible political analyst saying Paul has any realistic shot at winning the nomination.

Define credible.

Quote:
Show me ONE poll where he does better than Romney against Obama.

From a poll done in New Mexico in December:

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #57 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Define credible.



From a poll done in New Mexico in December:


That shows a tie between Paul and Romney, and it's a single-state poll. You know very well that's not what I meant.
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post #58 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

That shows a tie between Paul and Romney, and it's a single-state poll. You know very well that's not what I meant.

You said one poll. You should have been more specific.

Look, I'm not going to do the research for you. The information is freely available, you just don't want to make the effort to educate yourself. Afraid of what you might find?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #59 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post


Republicans. Nuttier than a nut bar.
The devils that drive us do not discriminate
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The devils that drive us do not discriminate
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post #60 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

You said one poll. You should have been more specific.

Look, I'm not going to do the research for you. The information is freely available, you just don't want to make the effort to educate yourself. Afraid of what you might find?

Come on. You know it's not out there. Romney performs best against Obama...just admit it.
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post #61 of 693
It's out there. I've found it. You can, too. Try it.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #62 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

It's out there. I've found it. You can, too. Try it.

Stop obfuscating. You know full well the polls show Romney doing better against Obama than Paul.
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post #63 of 693
Tell me what else I know, SDW2011. Please.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #64 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Tell me what else I know, SDW2011. Please.


Are you honestly disagreeing with me, or are you just being snarky?
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post #65 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Are you honestly disagreeing with me, or are you just being snarky?

You're having a one-way conversation.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #66 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post


that's because He is spending all his time helping Tebow.
post #67 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Romney is a Republican, probably right of Reagan. Obama is also (in practice, according to his record) right of Reagan. It would be fair to call Obama a DINO, but calling Romney a RINO is ignoring the intense shift to the right of the Republican party.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Actually, I agree with Jazzy here. Ron Paul has by far the best chance against Obama.

Let me ask you this, SDW, if it were Paul vs. Obama, who would you vote for? That's right. EVERY REPUBLICAN would vote for Ron Paul. Then you have all the Jazzys and Sammi Jos, and the Fellowships, and maybe even some of the Liberals who are sick of Obama's lack of direction. Paul would win.

This is not the case with any of the other Republican candidates, even Romney.

Tonton, just because you're on the left doesn't mean everyone on the right is crazy. While I agree that the GOP is holding a rightward course, I'm not sure what 'right of Reagan' means in real terms.

I do know that, even with the Tea Party, it would take a serious selling job to promote the outright killing of five cabinet-level agencies. Evangelicals won't unite over that for sure, and moderates will run for the hills.

So I'm not certain where you get the lunatic idea that "every Republican" would vote for Paul.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #68 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

You're having a one-way conversation.

And you're acting like a fucking five year old. You refuse to acknowledge anything that shows Ron Paul is not the best candidate to face Obama...or anything negative about him whatsoever. But that's fine...enjoy yourself.
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post #69 of 693


Who's the one throwing a temper tantrum?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #70 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post



Who's the one throwing a temper tantrum?

Keep it up. I'll disengage until you decide to have an actual discussion.
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post #71 of 693
If your idea of a discussion is you telling me what I think, then I want no part of it. Carry on.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #72 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

There is nothing to support your statement that Romney has less of a chance to beat Obama than Ron Paul. Ron Paul's numbers are far below that of Romney's in a general election matchup. I know of no politically knowledgeable person that agrees with you here. That's why it's delusional on your part.

Poll: Romney, Paul tie Obama

And Paul leads among independents.

My delusional mind must be playing tricks on me.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #73 of 693
What do you call it when people are not swayed by evidence but rather ignore it to hold tight to their unfounded beliefs?

Sure seems like Jazz keeps showing hard evidence and SDW keeps putting his head in the sand...

But, why does this situation feel so familiar? Hmmph. It'll come to me.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #74 of 693
Thanks, Newt. Couldn't have said it better myself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=_evS-T-c35M

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #75 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Romney is a Republican, probably right of Reagan. Obama is also (in practice, according to his record) right of Reagan. It would be fair to call Obama a DINO, but calling Romney a RINO is ignoring the intense shift to the right of the Republican party.

What I call Romney is a plastic person. With his false smile and his changing his mind many times and not giving one iota of the average middle class or poor citizen in the states.He loved it when he was boss at Bain screwing companies and people left and right constantly. Do you want this winner as your leader???
post #76 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Poll: Romney, Paul tie Obama

And Paul leads among independents.

My delusional mind must be playing tricks on me.


I just saw that today. That is the first one I've aware of, but I stand corrected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

What do you call it when people are not swayed by evidence but rather ignore it to hold tight to their unfounded beliefs?

Sure seems like Jazz keeps showing hard evidence and SDW keeps putting his head in the sand...

But, why does this situation feel so familiar? Hmmph. It'll come to me.

That's the first piece he's showed...a poll which was released today. As I said...I stand corrected. Of course, that doesn't mean that Paul is actually stronger than Romney when facing Obama as it is one poll.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #77 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Poll: Romney, Paul tie Obama

And Paul leads among independents.

My delusional mind must be playing tricks on me.


As SDW said it is a new poll and good for Ron Paul!!!

Isn't it amazing how all these "weak", "silly", "unserious", "not credible" candidates on the Republican side are already matching or besting Obama in polls? He's only a historic messiah who will lower the rising ocean levels with his world respect.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #78 of 693
Romney only got 2-3% more of the NH primary vote than McCain did in 2008.

And NH is Romney's home state!

I ain't heard no fat lady singin'.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #79 of 693
If you ever needed more proof that the GOP favors the rich or that Romney's a jackass that ties his dog to the roof of his car ( and would treat us all the same way ) here you go :

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/12/news...y/romney_envy/

Quote:
Romney: Income inequality is just 'envy'



Quote:
According to Mitt Romney, the nation's growing focus on income inequality is all about envy.

"You know, I think it's about envy. I think it's about class warfare," the leading Republican presidential candidate said Wednesday on The Today Show.

When asked if there are any fair questions about wealth distribution, Romney replied, "It's fine to talk about those things in quiet rooms and discussions about tax policy and the like."

Romney has accused President Obama of promoting the "bitter politics of envy." The president is ramping up his talks about the nation's growing income divide and the shrinking of the middle class. He is focusing on the tax benefits afforded to millionaires and executives.

Obama didn't start this the GOP did with this kind of ideology! The republicans favor the rich. Romney is out of touch. Obama doesn't want a socialist society he just wants us to have a fair one where it's not just a battle of the haves and have nots! If there's any envy here it's just envy of how to put food on the table without sweating bullets on how to do it.

What a jackass! Yeah I want to vote for him.

Even if Obama didn't do everything you wanted he's a lot better than this guy! Get out and vote next November to keep out of touch jerks like this from turning this country into Rich vs. Poor country!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #80 of 693
Yeah, those filthy poor people are just envious of us not filing medical bankruptcy when we fall seriously ill. Jealous pricks. If they weren't so goddamn lazy maybe they could commit fraud, earn billions, and avoid prosecution, too. They have no skin in the game! I mean, we took their skin but that doesn't matter. If they weren't lazy and stupid, they wouldn't have let that happen. Listen, fuckers, WE CREATE THE JOBS AROUND HERE! I mean, well, we haven't really since we figured out we can fire half the staff, cut benefits, and threaten to hire any one of the desperate dumbasses in case anyone complains. BUT IF JOBS WERE TO BE CREATED, WE WOULD POTENTIALLY BE THE ONES WHO TECHNICALLY COULD!

Try getting a fourth job and forego sleep and your children's upbringing and maybe one day I can steal your little nest egg before you're ready to finally retire at the ripe old age of almost dead. Until then, quit your bitching. This is AMERICA. We are the best because we are the best! Socialism. Jesus. Class Warfare. Abortion. Homosexuals. Iran.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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