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post #81 of 693
Here's Newt's movie about Mitt.

http://www.kingofbain.com/

Nice little screenshot at the end:

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #82 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

What an in-depth, balanced analysis. Goodbye.

In depth Romney was brought up with a golden spoon and never struggled in his life like he says he did. He is a hypocrite and I do not trust him with his wavering ways and cheap shots poking out the average class of workers in the states regarding the factory workers and union people.He is a bragging person and I hate him for this personality of his. Wants to fire people and makes excuses if you do not work out fire them!Telling Perry he bet $10,000 on the immigration issue he sucks with this attitude of his and I hope to GOD he never becomes president.
post #83 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

In depth Romney was brought up with a golden spoon and never struggled in his life like he says he did.

He never said he did.

Quote:
He is a hypocrite

Why? Because he has money?

Quote:
and I do not trust him with his wavering ways

Name three issues he's changed his position on.

Quote:

and cheap shots poking out the average class of workers in the states regarding the factory workers and union people.

So saying that unions are bankrupting our manufacturing industry is a "cheap shot?"

Quote:
He is a bragging person and I hate him for this personality of his.

I don't even know what that means. Obama just implied he was the fourth greatest President of all time, and you're calling Romney a "bragging person." Got it.


Quote:
Wants to fire people and makes excuses if you do not work out fire them!

No, he was talking about firing insurance companies. He was talking about a person's ability to fire an insurance company. Please pay attention.

Quote:

Telling Perry he bet $10,000 on the immigration issue

So what?

Quote:
he sucks with this attitude of his

Nice specific criticism.

Quote:
and I hope to GOD he never becomes president.

He's far, far better than what he have.
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post #84 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post



Obama didn't start this the GOP did with this kind of ideology!

So the GOP started class warfare?

Quote:
The republicans favor the rich.

Yes, yes, jimmac. The GOP is for the evil rich, and the Democrats just want to help the poor and we average joes. Good lord.

Quote:

Romney is out of touch.

Why, because he's rich? How "in touch" is Obama? At least Romney's had to make a payroll in his life. At least his evil Bain Capital created more jobs as it raped and pillages the land than Obama has in the last 3 years across the nation.

Quote:
Obama doesn't want a socialist society he just wants us to have a fair one where it's not just a battle of the haves and have nots!

We've been through this. No, Obama does not want a "socialist" society. But he does want a more progressive, European-style system, from increased social welfare benefits, to universal healthcare, to a smaller military and less American involvement and influence in the world. Oh, and jimmac...please tell me you know there will ALWAYS be haves and have nots. Even the most stringent communist societies in the world had (and have) "haves and have nots."

Quote:

If there's any envy here it's just envy of how to put food on the table without sweating bullets on how to do it.

Yeah, because that what he was talking about.

Quote:

What a jackass! Yeah I want to vote for him.

Even if Obama didn't do everything you wanted he's a lot better than this guy! Get out and vote next November to keep out of touch jerks like this from turning this country into Rich vs. Poor country!



"I see your true colors, shinin' through...."

Your idiocy and cognitive dissonance have reached new highs! First, you decry class warfare. Then, you blame thje GOP for it. Meanwhile, YOUR PRESIDENT has been the one running around stoking the flames. He's the one that is constantly slamming "millionaires and billionaires." YOUR GUY is the one engaging in the very class warfare you claim to despise. YOUR GUY. And now you're blaming the the guy who CONDEMNS class warfare.

Let's feed that through the jimmac-a-tron 10,000 to see what it comes up with:

Condemning class warfare = you are pro-class warfare

Engaging in class warfare = you just want things to be more fair

SYNTAX ERROR!
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post #85 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Romney only got 2-3% more of the NH primary vote than McCain did in 2008.

And NH is Romney's home state!

I ain't heard no fat lady singin'.

Mass. is his home state.

Beyond that, your stat is meaningless. You're celebrating because he did BETTER than McCain did, and had nearly 40% of the vote? What happened to Romney the 25 percenter?

Here's a little factoid for you: Every person to win the GOP nomination has won Iowa or New Hampshire. Romney won both. Have a nice day.
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post #86 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Here's Newt's movie about Mitt.

http://www.kingofbain.com/

Nice little screenshot at the end:


The film is nothing more than a Gingrich-produced hit piece. It's absurdly stupid. It's a freak-show of political pornography, to paraphrase Bill Moyers.
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post #87 of 693
I hope you treat ads and editorials about Democrats in a similar manner.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #88 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I hope you treat ads and editorials about Democrats in a similar manner.

If you can show me something similar, absolutely. It is what it is...a hit piece. Republicans make them about Democrats too. The only difference here is that Republicans made this one about another Republican.
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post #89 of 693
Amusing, isn't it? Think there's any grains of truth lurking under the Gingrich spin? Think there's anything Romney did at Bain Capital that would be considered job-killing or morally wrong?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #90 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Mass. is his home state.

Beyond that, your stat is meaningless. You're celebrating because he did BETTER than McCain did, and had nearly 40% of the vote? What happened to Romney the 25 percenter?

Here's a little factoid for you: Every person to win the GOP nomination has won Iowa or New Hampshire. Romney won both. Have a nice day.



You have a nice day, too!

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #91 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

So the GOP started class warfare?



Yes, yes, jimmac. The GOP is for the evil rich, and the Democrats just want to help the poor and we average joes. Good lord.



Why, because he's rich? How "in touch" is Obama? At least Romney's had to make a payroll in his life. At least his evil Bain Capital created more jobs as it raped and pillages the land than Obama has in the last 3 years across the nation.



We've been through this. No, Obama does not want a "socialist" society. But he does want a more progressive, European-style system, from increased social welfare benefits, to universal healthcare, to a smaller military and less American involvement and influence in the world. Oh, and jimmac...please tell me you know there will ALWAYS be haves and have nots. Even the most stringent communist societies in the world had (and have) "haves and have nots."



Yeah, because that what he was talking about.





"I see your true colors, shinin' through...."

Your idiocy and cognitive dissonance have reached new highs! First, you decry class warfare. Then, you blame thje GOP for it. Meanwhile, YOUR PRESIDENT has been the one running around stoking the flames. He's the one that is constantly slamming "millionaires and billionaires." YOUR GUY is the one engaging in the very class warfare you claim to despise. YOUR GUY. And now you're blaming the the guy who CONDEMNS class warfare.

Let's feed that through the jimmac-a-tron 10,000 to see what it comes up with:

Condemning class warfare = you are pro-class warfare

Engaging in class warfare = you just want things to be more fair

SYNTAX ERROR!

SDW your position on this is indefensible. You can try to spin this to turn it around so that it looks the opposite of the reality in true GOP Neocon fashion but I've got to tell you that shit doesn't work anymore! It's so 90's and 1rst decade 21rst century. Like usual SDW no one's buying today ( or any other day on this one ). Romney's already proved where he stands and it's not for the middle class or the poor.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #92 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Here's Newt's movie about Mitt.

http://www.kingofbain.com/

Nice little screenshot at the end:


Hey! Haven't we already had a president who proved early in his career before becoming president that he tended to run things into the ground? Who was that? It was someone SDW liked.



Oh yeah!


Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #93 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Hey! Haven't we already had a president who proved early in his career before becoming president that he tended to run things into the ground? Who was that? It was someone SDW liked.



Oh yeah!



Going back to the good old days of when everyone was employed and you complained that they all had two jobs at McDonald's and the deficits were only $250b a year instead of a trillion plus?

Mitt Romney can probably get elected just by promising to run all the same wars, but do it for $750b less a year.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #94 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Going back to the good old days of when everyone was employed and you complained that they all had two jobs at McDonald's and the deficits were only $250b a year instead of a trillion plus?

Mitt Romney can probably get elected just by promising to run all the same wars, but do it for $750b less a year.

Quote:
Going back to the good old days of when everyone was employed and you complained that they all had two jobs at McDonald's and the deficits were only $250b a year instead of a trillion plus?

Now under who's watch did this all start becoming very apparent again as we watched the bottom almost fall out from underneath everything? And could have done much more than just taking vacations in the begining to avert all of this?

Winky winky!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #95 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

now under who's watch did this all start becoming very apparent again as we watched the bottom almost fall out from underneath everything? And could have done much more than just taking vacations in the begining to avert all of this?

Winky winky!

FDR's

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #96 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

He never said he did.



Why? Because he has money?



Name three issues he's changed his position on.



So saying that unions are bankrupting our manufacturing industry is a "cheap shot?"



I don't even know what that means. Obama just implied he was the fourth greatest President of all time, and you're calling Romney a "bragging person." Got it.




No, he was talking about firing insurance companies. He was talking about a person's ability to fire an insurance company. Please pay attention.



So what?



Nice specific criticism.



He's far, far better than what he have.

You my friend are a one sided right winger paying less attention to the middle class and poor in this country. He is a two sided talker!
post #97 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

FDR's

Yes I know it was a joke and yes I was very careful how I put this because yes it goes back farther but Dubbya had the best chance while this was becoming apparent ( 8 years in office ) and did nothing until it blossomed into a real problem. Obama got stuck with it afterwords ( no matter what your position is on his actions ). After it happened does anybody really think it something that took more than 4 years to make would be gone now if McCain had won? Really? Also did FDR take a lot of vacations? Sorry but Bush really needs to take some heat on this one.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #98 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Yes I know it was a joke and yes I was very careful how I put this because yes it goes back farther but Dubbya had the best chance while this was becoming apparent ( 8 years in office ) and did nothing until it blossomed into a real problem. Obama got stuck with it afterwords ( no matter what your position is on his actions ). After it happened does anybody really think it something that took more than 4 years to make would be gone now if McCain had won? Really? Also did FDR take a lot of vacations? Sorry but Bush really needs to take some heat on this one.

Bush what he got us into should be persecuted in a court regarding the Iraq war with his sidekick Cheney.Obama walked into shit for the first 2 years and is trying to get out of it slowly but surely.McCain is a joke with Palin as they could never lead a country let alone their own states.
post #99 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

SDW your position on this is indefensible.

My position on what?

Quote:
You can try to spin this to turn it around so that it looks the opposite of the reality in true GOP Neocon fashion but I've got to tell you that shit doesn't work anymore!

Spin what? I'm really asking.

Quote:
It's so 90's and 1rst decade 21rst century. Like usual SDW no one's buying today ( or any other day on this one ). Romney's already proved where he stands and it's not for the middle class or the poor.

How has he done that...by the act of being rich?

Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

You my friend are a one sided right winger paying less attention to the middle class and poor in this country. He is a two sided talker!

You have no idea who I am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Yes I know it was a joke and yes I was very careful how I put this because yes it goes back farther but Dubbya had the best chance while this was becoming apparent ( 8 years in office ) and did nothing until it blossomed into a real problem.

Best chance to do what?

Quote:
Obama got stuck with it afterwords ( no matter what your position is on his actions ).

It is true that he inherited a bad situation. However, two things: 1) He's unquestionably made it worse and 2) You've never been able to show what Bush did to cause the problem.


Quote:
After it happened does anybody really think it something that took more than 4 years to make would be gone now if McCain had won? Really?

Strawman. I've never claimed that...nor has anyone else here of whom I'm aware. I do think McCain would have at least not made things worse, but that's obviously speculation.

Quote:

Also did FDR take a lot of vacations?

Yes, actually.

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Born into a gentry lifestyle of money and social position, Franklin Roosevelt had it all. Between annual trips to Europe , Franklin lived at his parents' home called Springwood - an imposing 35-room mansion with dramatic views of the elite Hudson River Valley .

Quote:
Sorry but Bush really needs to take some heat on this one.

Bush vacationed at his Texas ranch, where he was able to work. Obama has now played nearly 1,600 holes of golf (something Bush gave up doing because he didn't feel it was appropriate during war). Obama went to Hawaii to vacation, the estimated cost of which is $4 million. His wife's travel to Spain and Africa has cost millions.

Now, go ahead: Make the case that Bush's vacations were inappropriate compared to Obama's...or FDR's. Good luck.


Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

Bush what he got us into should be persecuted in a court

Prosecuted, you dolt. Not persecuted.

Quote:
regarding the Iraq war with his sidekick Cheney.

Prosecuted for what?

Quote:
Obama walked into shit for the first 2 years and is trying to get out of it slowly but surely.

Trying does not equal succeeding. He's made it worse. Unquestionably.

Quote:
McCain is a joke with Palin as they could never lead a country let alone their own states.

Palin did extremely well as governor and had an 80% approval rating before being nominated. McCain is an experienced Senator and bona fide war hero. Yeah...they're a joke, especially when compared to a former Community Organizer™ who was a US Senator for 180 days before running for President. The man has never held a job in the private sector, nor served in the military, nor had had any meaningful experience. Yeah...a joke.
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post #100 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

My position on what?



Spin what? I'm really asking.



How has he done that...by the act of being rich?



You have no idea who I am.



Best chance to do what?



It is true that he inherited a bad situation. However, two things: 1) He's unquestionably made it worse and 2) You've never been able to show what Bush did to cause the problem.




Strawman. I've never claimed that...nor has anyone else here of whom I'm aware. I do think McCain would have at least not made things worse, but that's obviously speculation.



Yes, actually.





Bush vacationed at his Texas ranch, where he was able to work. Obama has now played nearly 1,600 holes of golf (something Bush gave up doing because he didn't feel it was appropriate during war). Obama went to Hawaii to vacation, the estimated cost of which is $4 million. His wife's travel to Spain and Africa has cost millions.

Now, go ahead: Make the case that Bush's vacations were inappropriate compared to Obama's...or FDR's. Good luck.




Prosecuted, you dolt. Not persecuted.



Prosecuted for what?



Trying does not equal succeeding. He's made it worse. Unquestionably.



Palin did extremely well as governor and had an 80% approval rating before being nominated. McCain is an experienced Senator and bona fide war hero. Yeah...they're a joke, especially when compared to a former Community Organizer who was a US Senator for 180 days before running for President. The man has never held a job in the private sector, nor served in the military, nor had had any meaningful experience. Yeah...a joke.

I repeat
Quote:
SDW your position on this is indefensible.

and you already know what I'm talking about so don't play stupid.

Romney and the GOP are for the rich not the middleclass and the poor.
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post #101 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I repeat and you already know what I'm talking about so don't play stupid.

Romney and the GOP are for the rich not the middleclass and the poor.

That's not a "position"...it's a statement of opinion. You are entitled to it, but that doesn't make it factual.
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post #102 of 693
Thread Starter 
Speaking of the race, I thought Romney was a little off last night. Newt actually had a greate debate, and would likely still be in the lead he ran the way he sounded last night. Romney got better over time, and closed well. I thought Santorum scored some points, but came off as a prosecutor. Paul was erratic. Perry had a good debate, but he's too far behind. Overall, Newt won. The question is whether it matters. I doubt it.
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post #103 of 693

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #104 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

That's not a "position"...it's a statement of opinion. You are entitled to it, but that doesn't make it factual.

I don't get why you guys bother. 2011 was a great year for me on AI, in large part because I just ignore certain people now.


It's easy for Paul to score highly when few are openly attacking him. Because everyone wants his supporters in November. But there isn't a liberal or even slight leftie in the country that will vote for the dismantling of six whole federal departments. Anybody who knows anything about world affairs understands why U.S. troops must be left in Korea.

Look, I agree with several of Paul positions. But he has no chance at all of becoming president.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #105 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

It's easy for Paul to score highly when few are openly attacking him. Because everyone wants his supporters in November.

They want his supporters, but I doubt they'll be getting enough of them to defeat Obama. Ron Paul has the overwhelming support of the younger generation of voters and we aren't so willing to pull the lever for a big government candidate. We can't be intimidated or scared into voting for a big government candidate just because he has a certain letter next to his name or some other such nonsense.

Quote:
But there isn't a liberal or even slight leftie in the country that will vote for the dismantling of six whole federal departments.

Guess who placed 2nd behind Obama in the NH Democratic Primary? Ron Paul. And he wasn't even on the ballot.

Quote:
Anybody who knows anything about world affairs understands why U.S. troops must be left in Korea.

Anybody who knows anything about economics and history knows that our foreign policy is unsustainable and will eventually be our downfall as a nation if we don't do something about it now.

Quote:
Look, I agree with several of Paul positions. But he has no chance at all of becoming president.

He's tied with Romney against Obama in head-to-head matchups. He has a chance, the GOP establishment just doesn't want to give it to him. He's a threat to their power.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #106 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Speaking of the race, I thought Romney was a little off last night. Newt actually had a greate debate, and would likely still be in the lead he ran the way he sounded last night. Romney got better over time, and closed well. I thought Santorum scored some points, but came off as a prosecutor. Paul was erratic. Perry had a good debate, but he's too far behind. Overall, Newt won. The question is whether it matters. I doubt it.

Romney did sound a bit frazzled, especially on the release of the income tax matter. It makes me think there is some mess in them that he doesn't want out there. Of course as always Gingrich attacks the presumptions with in the questions, and doesn't just answer them.


I'm really surprised at the strong Paul polling. I suspect he gets a ton of the youth vote which of course would hurt Obama in the general election. While they are very reliable for polling, they aren't very reliable voters. I'm still convinced any Republican can win against Obama come November but Romney plays into the narrative Obama wants to run against the best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

I don't get why you guys bother. 2011 was a great year for me on AI, in large part because I just ignore certain people now.

It's easy for Paul to score highly when few are openly attacking him. Because everyone wants his supporters in November. But there isn't a liberal or even slight leftie in the country that will vote for the dismantling of six whole federal departments. Anybody who knows anything about world affairs understands why U.S. troops must be left in Korea.

Look, I agree with several of Paul positions. But he has no chance at all of becoming president.

We are in agreement and honestly I believe Gingrich can make those cuts but knows how to work the knobs and levers of power in Washington which is really a big deal once you think about it. Selling the level of cuts and reduction in spending that needs to occur needs to be done the right way.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #107 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

They want his supporters, but I doubt they'll be getting enough of them to defeat Obama. Ron Paul has the overwhelming support of the younger generation of voters and we aren't so willing to pull the lever for a big government candidate. We can't be intimidated or scared into voting for a big government candidate just because he has a certain letter next to his name or some other such nonsense.

Yes, because the younger generation of voters are completely reliable as a voting bloc. And the older voters, who watch the news, will completely ignore the gutting of six federal departments and an American isolationist policy that utterly failed in WW II.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

He's tied with Romney against Obama in head-to-head matchups. He has a chance, the GOP establishment just doesn't want to give it to him. He's a threat to their power.

The establishment is horrified at the prospect, but they were just as horrified with Bachmann or Cain.

The libertarian wing of the Republican party cannot win an election on their own. You just don't get to make up the math portion of the electoral equation. And if Paul wins the nomination, neo-cons and evangelicals will bail (for two different sets of reasons.) Actually, the neo-cons will probably vote for Obama, and Evangelicals will split between GOP, protest votes and stay at homes. And Obama will win.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #108 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Yes, because the younger generation of voters are completely reliable as a voting bloc. And the older voters, who watch the news, will completely ignore the gutting of six federal departments and an American isolationist policy that utterly failed in WW II.

The older voters are spoon-fed distorted or outright false information from the TeeVee and mainstream media. And yes, even Fox News is a part of that.

The younger generation doesn't want to pay for the older generation's ignorance. We understand that the status quo is unsustainable, and the only GOP candidate who doesn't represent the status quo is Ron Paul. We also understand that non-intervention is not isolationism and that non-aggression is not pacifism.

Quote:
The establishment is horrified at the prospect, but they were just as horrified with Bachmann or Cain.

Because they had both demonstrated that they would stand up to the establishment and go against it on certain issues.

Quote:
The libertarian wing of the Republican party cannot win an election on their own. You just don't get to make up the math portion of the electoral equation. And if Paul wins the nomination, neo-cons and evangelicals will bail (for two different sets of reasons.) Actually, the neo-cons will probably vote for Obama, and Evangelicals will split between GOP, protest votes and stay at homes. And Obama will win.

The establishment cannot win without the libertarian wing of the Republican Party. The only way they get our vote is if they nominate Ron Paul, or if the eventual nominee suddenly flip-flops on some major issues and can convince us he's sincere, which isn't going to happen.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #109 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

the only GOP candidate who doesn't represent the status quo is Ron Paul.

That is simply untrue. Just because Paul represents extreme change does not mean everyone else is for the status quo.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #110 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

That is simply untrue. Just because Paul represents extreme change does not mean everyone else is for the status quo.

Extreme change is required in order to get us back on the right track. Tinkering around the edges and trying to treat the symptoms rather than the cause may delay the failure for a while, but the outcome will be the same.

We don't need more government, we need less. But none of the GOP candidates, save Paul, wants to reduce government in any meaningful way. Paul is the only true conservative running for president between the two major parties.

All they talk about is in what ways they plan to use government to fix things. Some of the ways in which they want to grow government may be different from Obama, but in all the ways that matter, they are virtually the same.

Can the president wage war without an official declaration of war from Congress? Obama, Romney, Santorum, Perry, and Gingrich say yes.

Can the president kill or detain any American he wants without trial? Obama, Romney, Santorum, Perry, and Gingrich say yes.

Can the government artificially manipulate the money supply and interest rates and print money out of thin air? Obama, Romney, Santorum, Perry, and Gingrich say yes.

Can the government tell you what you can and cannot put in your own body under threat of violence? Obama, Romney, Santorum, Perry, and Gingrich say yes.

Should America police the world and bully other nations into submission to our ideals and interests? Obama, Romney, Santorum, Perry, and Gingrich say yes.

There is no difference among them in the areas that really matter, and more people every day are waking up to this reality.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #111 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Yes, because the younger generation of voters are completely reliable as a voting bloc. And the older voters, who watch the news, will completely ignore the gutting of six federal departments and an American isolationist policy that utterly failed in WW II.

I wouldn't say the isolationist policy completely failed, just that we didn't even care enough to defend ourselvs from a pretty clear attack. There is a difference between being the police of the world and being unwilling to even police your own borders.

Quote:
The establishment is horrified at the prospect, but they were just as horrified with Bachmann or Cain.

The libertarian wing of the Republican party cannot win an election on their own. You just don't get to make up the math portion of the electoral equation. And if Paul wins the nomination, neo-cons and evangelicals will bail (for two different sets of reasons.) Actually, the neo-cons will probably vote for Obama, and Evangelicals will split between GOP, protest votes and stay at homes. And Obama will win.

I suspect the Evangelicals would stay, but the NeoCons would bolt or stay home. Eitherway Obama would win just like Clinton did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

The older voters are spoon-fed distorted or outright false information from the TeeVee and mainstream media. And yes, even Fox News is a part of that.

The younger generation doesn't want to pay for the older generation's ignorance. We understand that the status quo is unsustainable, and the only GOP candidate who doesn't represent the status quo is Ron Paul. We also understand that non-intervention is not isolationism and that non-aggression is not pacifism.

However does for the most part represent the status quo on entitlements. Regardless of whether older voters are motivated by false information, the point is they show up and vote in droves.

Quote:
Because they had both demonstrated that they would stand up to the establishment and go against it on certain issues.

So what has standing up to the establishment netted them besides an early exit?

Quote:
The establishment cannot win without the libertarian wing of the Republican Party. The only way they get our vote is if they nominate Ron Paul, or if the eventual nominee suddenly flip-flops on some major issues and can convince us he's sincere, which isn't going to happen.

I'd bet that whoever wins will be pragmatic and smart enough to preannounce a few cabinet posts (in return for endorsements of course) and will likely pick a firebrand of a VP candidate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Extreme change is required in order to get us back on the right track. Tinkering around the edges and trying to treat the symptoms rather than the cause may delay the failure for a while, but the outcome will be the same.

We don't need more government, we need less. But none of the GOP candidates, save Paul, wants to reduce government in any meaningful way. Paul is the only true conservative running for president between the two major parties.

All they talk about is in what ways they plan to use government to fix things. Some of the ways in which they want to grow government may be different from Obama, but in all the ways that matter, they are virtually the same.

Can the president wage war without an official declaration of war from Congress? Obama, Romney, Santorum, Perry, and Gingrich say yes.

Can the president kill or detain any American he wants without trial? Obama, Romney, Santorum, Perry, and Gingrich say yes.

Can the government artificially manipulate the money supply and interest rates and print money out of thin air? Obama, Romney, Santorum, Perry, and Gingrich say yes.

Can the government tell you what you can and cannot put in your own body under threat of violence? Obama, Romney, Santorum, Perry, and Gingrich say yes.

Should America police the world and bully other nations into submission to our ideals and interests? Obama, Romney, Santorum, Perry, and Gingrich say yes.

There is no difference among them in the areas that really matter, and more people every day are waking up to this reality.

While you are correct on many of those points, the spending is the key as you note. The war has too many fronts to fight right now. If a candidate can get it down to one, then the other front becomes easier to fight on. If we feel civil liberties are being infringed on and that we should not be policing the world this gets easier to argue about when deficits aren't going up by a trillion a year and government spending gets under 20% of GDP. Is that enough? No it isn't but sometimes a start is better than nothing at all.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #112 of 693
"If Mitt Romney can’t win without Ron Paul’s supporters, wouldn’t that make him… unelectable?" -- Judge Andrew Napolitano

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #113 of 693
Clearly the only solution is for Ron Paul to run as a 3rd party independent after Romney gets the Republican nomination. Please do this.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #114 of 693
So that Paul would be the new Perot? I doubt Paul would deliberately make a bad situation worse.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #115 of 693
If there ever was a time for a serious third party run, it is now. I don't think either of the major parties realizes just how fed up people are with them.

But I think there already is a strong third party candidate running: Gary Johnson. I think it's more probable that Ron Paul would endorse GJ than run as a third party candidate himself.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #116 of 693
Any libertarian third party run is going to elect Obama. Even BR can see that.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #117 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

If there ever was a time for a serious third party run, it is now. I don't think either of the major parties realizes just how fed up people are with them.

But I think there already is a strong third party candidate running: Gary Johnson. I think it's more probable that Ron Paul would endorse GJ than run as a third party candidate himself.

Paul and Johnson should run together.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #118 of 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

Any libertarian third party run is going to elect Obama. Even BR can see that.

Then the GOP needs to nominate an electable candidate. Romney isn't it.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #119 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

The older voters are spoon-fed distorted or outright false information from the TeeVee and mainstream media. And yes, even Fox News is a part of that.

The younger generation doesn't want to pay for the older generation's ignorance. We understand that the status quo is unsustainable, and the only GOP candidate who doesn't represent the status quo is Ron Paul. We also understand that non-intervention is not isolationism and that non-aggression is not pacifism.



Because they had both demonstrated that they would stand up to the establishment and go against it on certain issues.



The establishment cannot win without the libertarian wing of the Republican Party. The only way they get our vote is if they nominate Ron Paul, or if the eventual nominee suddenly flip-flops on some major issues and can convince us he's sincere, which isn't going to happen.

I don't know about that.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #120 of 693
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Romney did sound a bit frazzled, especially on the release of the income tax matter. It makes me think there is some mess in them that he doesn't want out there. Of course as always Gingrich attacks the presumptions with in the questions, and doesn't just answer them.

Ehh...I actually think that's inconsequential. In fact, these attacks are already having an inoculative effect. Last night this happened when we got to the point where Perry said "WE need to know about your tax records." It came off as desperate and transparent. As for the rest of the debate, I thought Romney should have given it to The Santorum instead of simply getting testy and smiling. Santorum was being a dick. He should have asked the moderators if they were allowed to ask each other questions. If the answer was yes, Romney should have scolded Santorum for cutting him off and then crushed him on the felons voting issue. He could have really gone after Santorum's conservative credentials and turned the tables on him. As I said though, Romney eventually scored big by pronouncing McCain-Feingold a "disaster" and by saying he wanted all PACs to end.

Quote:


I'm really surprised at the strong Paul polling. I suspect he gets a ton of the youth vote which of course would hurt Obama in the general election. While they are very reliable for polling, they aren't very reliable voters. I'm still convinced any Republican can win against Obama come November but Romney plays into the narrative Obama wants to run against the best.

I don't any Republican can, which is one reason I support Romney. The nominee is going to need to be able to take body blows and the negative onslaught. To do this he'll need organization. Obviously this is not my only nor largest reason for supporting him. But yes, he can put the coalition together that it will take to win. The others cannot, and I narrowly include Gingrich in that due to his lack of organization and finances.

Quote:

We are in agreement and honestly I believe Gingrich can make those cuts but knows how to work the knobs and levers of power in Washington which is really a big deal once you think about it. Selling the level of cuts and reduction in spending that needs to occur needs to be done the right way.

I agree with that in principle, but Gingrich has too many other failings. By many accounts he's not a good, reliable leader. He gets angry and petty, as we've seen since Iowa.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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