or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Is [Gary Johnson] the Sanest Man Running for President?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Is [Gary Johnson] the Sanest Man Running for President? - Page 2

post #41 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

He thinks his 9% tax rate (you know, the one he'll get when he amends this year's taxes after the election) is too high.

 

Hmmm. You have something to support this claim I assume.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

President Obama has accomplished A LOT with Republicans attempting to undermine him the entire time, even when he wanted implement policies that Republicans were once in favor of (until the black guy with the funny name wanted those same things).

 

We all get it. Barack Obama has accomplished a lot, except when he hasn't. Barack Obama deserves credit for all of the things he's done while the evil Republicans are responsible for when he didn't get things accomplished. Plus Republicans are racist.

 

All the good things are to his credit. All the bad things are someone else's fault. Always an excuse for your dear leader.

 

Whatever.


Edited by MJ1970 - 9/27/12 at 8:14pm

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #42 of 101

http://www.boston.com/news/source/2012/09/mitt_romney_rel.html

 

 

 

Quote:

Romney’s updated tax returns show that he paid $1.9 million in taxes on $13.7 million in income, most of which came from his investments. It means his effective tax rate for 2011 was 14.1 percent, which is slightly higher than it was in 2010.

 

For political reasons, Romney claimed a charitable deduction of $1.75 million less than he could have – claiming $2.25 million from contributions of $4 million. The reason, according to his accountant, was so that he could still abide by a pledge he made in August that he paid at least 13 percent in income taxes in each of the last 10 years.

 

So, he paid more taxes than he had to so he wouldn't look as bad?  Ok...but what about what he said a few months back?

 

 

 

Quote:

Had he taken the full $4 million in charitable deductions, his effective tax rate would have been about 9 percent. In a July interview with ABC News, Romney essentially said he’d be a fool to pay more taxes than he owed.

 

“I don't pay more than are legally due and frankly if I had paid more than are legally due I don't think I'd be qualified to become president,” Romney told ABC News’ David Muir. “I'd think people would want me to follow the law and pay only what the tax code requires.”

 

 

Oops.

 

So, let's logic this out.  According to Romney's own words...

 

If he pays more taxes, he is unqualified to become president.  

He pays more taxes.

 

Law of detachment clearly states that he is unqualified to become president.  

 

Now, he can amend his taxes for up to three years to take those deductions.  I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that once he no longer has a campaign to run, and he's just a private citizen raping companies and exporting jobs again, he'll take advantage of that option.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #43 of 101

Fair enough.

 

I agree he should've claimed the full deduction, reduced his taxes as much as possible (rather than paying more for political purposes) and stood up like a man and defended lower taxes for him and everyone else rather than pandering to people who pine for higher taxes on rich people.

 

Of course, apparently sometimes, sadly, you need to be deceptive in order to get elected. After all, if the current President had campaigned on extending and expanding and double-down on Bush policies to the point of effectively becoming a 3rd term of Bush, it seems unlikely he would have been elected.

 

So Americans have a choice between two charlatans. Bummer.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #44 of 101
Your false equivalence is showing. How embarrassing.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #45 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Your false equivalence is showing. How embarrassing.

 

What's is embarrassing (for you) is how quickly and frequently you resort to the false equivalency charge when there is none thus laying bare either your ignorance or your hypocrisy.

 

This typically happens for you when someone points out that the guy you like, defend and support is just as evil, dishonest, ignorant, corrupt, hypocritical (or what not) as the guy you hate, accuse and attack and your brain short circuits at the realization of this fact and has no choice but to search for an escape route no matter how ridiculous and foolish it makes you look.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #46 of 101

I resort to the false equivalency charge so frequently because you jump to false equivalencies so frequently.  See, stop doing that and I'll stop calling you on it.  It's as simple as that.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #47 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I resort to the false equivalency charge so frequently because you jump to false equivalencies so frequently.  See, stop doing that and I'll stop calling you on it.  It's as simple as that.

 

What you fail to realize, unsurprisingly, is that you don't just get to call something a false equivalency because you want to and because it suits the situation for you. It actually has to be one.

 

Oh well.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #48 of 101

Right.  And it is one.  It is objectively false to claim that Barack Obama and Mitt Romney are the same.  In fact, it's utterly absurd.  To do so is to be divorced from reality--which, well, fits you like a glove.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #49 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Right.  And it is one.  It is objectively false to claim that Barack Obama and Mitt Romney are the same.  In fact, it's utterly absurd.  To do so is to be divorced from reality--which, well, fits you like a glove.

 

Of course BR. Whatever you say. You win.

 

:rolleyes:

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #50 of 101

Objectively different:

 

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Barack_Obama_vs_Mitt_Romney

 

I haven't fully fact-checked that site, but at a quick glance it appears quite reasonable.  

 

So, once again, stop it with those motherfucking false equivalencies.

 

 

 

Quote:

Barack Obama
  • Currently 4.00/5
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5

Rating: 4.0/5 (3965 votes)

160px-Obama.jpg
Mitt Romney
  • Currently 3.39/5
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5

Rating: 3.4/5 (3264 votes)

160px-Mitt-Romney.jpg
Political Party: Democratic Republican
Alma Mater: Harvard Law School, Columbia University Stanford University, Brigham Young University (BA), Harvard University (MBA, JD)
Position on the Economy: Repeal Bush tax cuts for households earning more than $250,000. Lower taxes on manufacturing industry. Stimulus spending and tax cuts to grow the economy (short term). Cut spending and raise taxes on wealthy to reduce deficit (long term). Make Bush tax cuts permanent. Lower corporate tax rate across the board to 25%. Cut taxes and regulations to encourage business. Cut "non-security discretionary [government] spending" by 5% to reduce deficit.
Position on Healthcare: Signed the 2010 healthcare overhaul bill. Calls for patient protections like allowing coverage for pre-existing conditions, not letting insurers cancel policies when patients get sick, and requiring individuals to buy health insurance or pay a fine. Created similar legislation in Mass. but believes it's not appropriate for all of USA and wants to repeal. Proposes encouraging individuals to purchase their own health insurance rather than via employers, and allowing insurance across state lines.
Position on Immigration: Supports path to legalization for illegal immigrants that includes learning English & paying fines; toughen penalties for hiring illegal immigrants; voted for fence along Mexican border. Issued exec order to not deport certain undocumented immigrants Would make English the official language of the US and "turn off the magnets like tuition breaks or other breaks that draw people into this country illegally"
Position on Iraq: Opposed invasion from the beginning; opposed troop increase; ended military operations in Iraq(on previously negotiated Bush timeline). Made no effort to keep promise to exit in 2009. Troops moved to Afghanistan and Iranian border. Romney says that keeping the U.S. in Iraq is the best option for minimizing casualties and maintaining a democratic government in Iraq.
Position on Iran: Engage in direct diplomacy; tighten economic sanctions with international cooperation; military option not off the table. Failed to deliver on 2008 campaign promise to meet with the Iranian president without preconditions. Military option not off the table.
Position on Global Warming and Environment: Supports a mandatory cap-and-trade system to reduce carbon emissions. Opposes Keystone XL pipeline. Opposes cap and trade legislation. Supports Keystone XL pipeline. Exporting carbon emissions to China hurts US and planet. (Aug 2007), Humans contribute to world getting warmer. (Nov 2011), $20 billion package for energy research & new car technology
Position on Indefinite detention: Publicly opposed but debate on Congressional floor revealed that his Administration asked for language excluding American citizens be removed. Would have signed NDAA as is.
Position on Military Intervention: Publicly opposed wars and intervention but has recently admitted to expanding Afghan conflict into Pakistan. Says Congressional approval not required if UN gives approval. Consult with lawyers on legality but believes President has the right to do what he believes makes the country safer.
Position on Gay rights: Supports same-sex marriage; pushed Congress to repeal Don't Ask, Don't Tell, allowing gays to serve openly in the military Opposes same-sex marriage; supports legal unions; supports Don't Ask, Don't Tell but favors gays serving openly in the military(Govwatch 1994), supported ENDA to ban anti-gay employer discrimination
Position on Abortion: Supports Roe v. Wade; criticized Supreme Court decision that upheld ban on partial-birth abortions. Opposes Roe v. Wade; believes states should be allowed to ban abortions., 1994: Supported abortion rights but personally opposed, No punishment for women who have partial birth abortions, change of heart in 2005 when preparing to run for President

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #51 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Objectively different:

 

http://www.diffen.com/difference/Barack_Obama_vs_Mitt_Romney

 

I haven't fully fact-checked that site, but at a quick glance it appears quite reasonable.  

 

So, once again, stop it with those motherfucking false equivalencies.

 

 

Whatever helps you rationalize your support for Barack Obama.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #52 of 101
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

 

Whatever helps you rationalize your support for Barack Obama.

 

But hey, the rhetoric is different. Apparently that's supposed to be important.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #53 of 101

Present evidence contrary to MJ & Jazzy's preconceived notions.  Evidence is promptly ignored.  Gee, falls in line with the behavior of a couple of zealots--political and religious.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #54 of 101
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Present evidence contrary to MJ & Jazzy's preconceived notions.  Evidence is promptly ignored.  Gee, falls in line with the behavior of a couple of zealots--political and religious.

Ad-hominem attacks, rhetoric, and fallacies are evidence?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #55 of 101

Oh look! BR thinks that a cleverly crafted and worded* comparison chart is a real evidence of real differences.

 

More than that though, BR is essentially moving the goal posts from the original point in which Mitt Romney is accused of taking actions or saying things that would presumably help him become more electable with the prospect that he's change those things later, after elected while ignoring similar cases with Barack Obama.

 

*This chart lost almost all credibility in the first position. Here's what is claims about Barack Obama on taxes: "Repeal Bush tax cuts for households earning more than $250,000. Lower taxes on manufacturing industry. Stimulus spending and tax cuts to grow the economy (short term). Cut spending and raise taxes on wealthy to reduce deficit (long term)." And yet...he didn't "repeal tax cuts for households earning more than $250,000" when he had the chance and the power. He hasn't lowered taxes on manufacturing industry when he had the power. He didn't cut spending or reduce the deficit (long term or any other time). There are various out supposedly stark positional differences that are laughably "different" in actual action including healthcare, Iraq, Iran, indefinite detention, military intervention. The real fact is that they are more alike than different and the differences are inconsequential.

 

But, whatever helps you rationalize your continued support for Barack Obama, BR, that's all that matters.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #56 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Oh look! BR thinks that a cleverly crafted and worded* comparison chart is a real evidence of real differences.

 

More than that though, BR is essentially moving the goal posts from the original point in which Mitt Romney is accused of taking actions or saying things that would presumably help him become more electable with the prospect that he's change those things later, after elected while ignoring similar cases with Barack Obama.

 

*This chart lost almost all credibility in the first position. Here's what is claims about Barack Obama on taxes: "Repeal Bush tax cuts for households earning more than $250,000. Lower taxes on manufacturing industry. Stimulus spending and tax cuts to grow the economy (short term). Cut spending and raise taxes on wealthy to reduce deficit (long term)." And yet...he didn't "repeal tax cuts for households earning more than $250,000" when he had the chance and the power. He hasn't lowered taxes on manufacturing industry when he had the power. He didn't cut spending or reduce the deficit (long term or any other time). There are various out supposedly stark positional differences that are laughably "different" in actual action including healthcare, Iraq, Iran, indefinite detention, military intervention. The real fact is that they are more alike than different and the differences are inconsequential.

 

But, whatever helps you rationalize your continued support for Barack Obama, BR, that's all that matters.

Hmm? It seemed like a pretty reasonable ( and factual ) comparison to me.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #57 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Hmm? It seemed like a pretty reasonable ( and factual ) comparison to me.

Kind of amazing/frightening how he can look at that and come to the conclusion he does.  Again, fits within his track record of ignoring evidence (e.g. evolution).

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #58 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Hmm? It seemed like a pretty reasonable ( and factual ) comparison to me.

Kind of amazing/frightening how he can look at that and come to the conclusion he does.  Again, fits within his track record of ignoring evidence (e.g. evolution).

MJ's an intelligent fellow. Unfortunately these days conservatives only see what they want to see. They're kind of desperate as part of them knows what I've been saying for some time now. The voting public isn't buying what they've been selling ( less and less everyday ). Trickle down whatever doesn't work. It would have worked a long time ago and we'd all be better off ( a long time ago ) if it did.

 

Now Obama isn't perfect. He didn't do everything we wanted ( it would help if we had a congress that had something else in their vocabulary besides " No " ). But the alternative is so much worse. And I have to hand to Mr. Obama. Anyone following the Bush years has their hands full period.

 

The conservative element says it's a matter of right vs. wrong so what the voting public says doesn't matter. It's what's " Right ". Of course they'll say this.  Who's right and who's wrong? That's what I say in response. When you're backed up against a wall and things aren't working you'll say anything ( or blame anyone else that is ). And that's just not the case with the left these days. The GOP has a sickness ( the extreme factions ). I fully believe in the two party system and the conservatives serve a purpose. That is to balance out the liberals when they get out of hand. However the deck has been so stacked in the right's favor for over 40 years ( in varying degrees considering all of the arms of government and the super wealthy element) it's not surprising they want it all. Not a balance. That very same situation serves to underscore what they've been peddling doesn't work. They've had plenty of time to make things better if you look at who's been in charge more during that time. They've become really good at spinning things so it seems different. I'll give them that. However over time even that wears thin. That's where we are now.

 

 I'd really like to see conservatives return to the way they used to be ( and depend less on the same old tired rhetoric and catering mainly to the wealthy ). Even some conservatives express this wish also. They just want to have their cake and to eat it to. Which leaves the rest of us ( 47 % wink if I could ) with nothing.


Edited by jimmac - 9/29/12 at 1:04pm
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #59 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Hmm? It seemed like a pretty reasonable ( and factual ) comparison to me.

 

Of course it does. But then we don't measure reasonable and factual against your standards. We measure reasonable and factual against actual reasonable and factual. The posted chart does not meet that criteria by its nature. It is a collection of carefully crafted and simplified representations of positions (and excludes any reference to actual actions in many cases). It is a superficial political positioning paper.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #60 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Kind of amazing/frightening how he can look at that and come to the conclusion he does.  Again, fits within his track record of ignoring evidence (e.g. evolution).

 

I didn't ignore the evidence. That's what's amazing. I looked at the evidence and "facts" you presented and found them lacking. There's a difference.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #61 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Hmm? It seemed like a pretty reasonable ( and factual ) comparison to me.

 

Of course it does. But then we don't measure reasonable and factual against your standards. We measure reasonable and factual against actual reasonable and factual. The posted chart does not meet that criteria by its nature. It is a collection of carefully crafted and simplified representations of positions (and excludes any reference to actual actions in many cases). It is a superficial political positioning paper.

Yes MJ. We know. It's about what's " Right ".

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #62 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

MJ's an intelligent fellow. Unfortunately these days conservatives only see what they want to see.

 

I've told you multiple times, I'm not a political conservative. So stop lumping me in with them.

 

As far as seeing only what one wants to see, I'd say you're in a glass house on that one.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

The voting public isn't buying what they've been selling ( less and less everyday ).

 

Well the voting public isn't exactly a brilliant standard of logic, intelligence and objectivity.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Trickle down whatever doesn't work. It would have worked a long time ago and we'd all be better off ( a long time ago ) if it did.

 

I'm not sure what you're talking about, and am willing to bet that you aren't either.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Now Obama isn't perfect. He didn't do everything we wanted ( it would help if we had a congress that had something else in their vocabulary besides " No " ).

 

He did...for 2 whole years.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

When you're backed up against a wall and things aren't working you'll say anything ( or blame anyone else that is ).

 

Wow. You've captured Obama's behavior perfectly. He's done nothing but blame everyone else for things that haven't worked (as you have repeatedly.) How ironic.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I fully believe in the two party system and the conservatives serve a purpose.

 

Oh dear. You're worse than I thought. Anyone who actually believes in that systems...well...nevermind.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

I fully believe in the two party system and the conservatives serve a purpose. That is to balance out the liberals when they get out of hand.

 

And yet you call them the "Party of 'no'" when they do. Will your hypocrisy never end?

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

However the deck has been so stacked in the right's favor for over 40 years ( in varying degrees considering all of the arms of government and the super wealthy element) it's not surprising they want it all.

 

What in the hell are you talking about?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #63 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Yes MJ. We know. It's about what's " Right ".

 

I'm sorry if you're foolish enough to not believe there is any such thing as right and wrong. It's not my fault. Perhaps your parents failed you in some way.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #64 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

 

I didn't ignore the evidence. That's what's amazing. I looked at the evidence and "facts" you presented and found them lacking. There's a difference.

What was lacking about them?  That they contradicted your preconceived notions?  One supports marriage equality.  The other doesn't.  That's a concrete difference.  One of MANY.  Stop it with your bullshit false equivalencies.  

 

 

 

In before "well, that's a difference that doesn't really matter" or something along similar lines.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #65 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

What was lacking about them?

 

Much. I outlined a couple of specifics.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

That they contradicted your preconceived notions?

 

I already explained that. Apparently you have ignored it. Surprise.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

One supports marriage equality.  The other doesn't.  That's a concrete difference.

 

I never claimed they were identical. But you clearly think I have. As you may recall (or don't or are ignoring it because it would be inconvenient for you to return to it) this started with your accusation about Mitt Romney taking an action for political reasons to make himself more appealing to voters and the further claim that he would go back on what he did after being elected. I suggested to you that Obama is no different in this regard. Then you (falsely) shouted "false equivalency!" :rolleyes: Primarily, I assume, because you don't actually know what that means. Or maybe because you wanted to misdirect from the unflattering equivalency that does exist.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

One of MANY.

 

Of course. :rolleyes:

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Stop it with your bullshit false equivalencies.

 

Stop it with your mis-direction, goal-line moving, erroneous accusations and generally fallacious thinking.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #66 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Yes MJ. We know. It's about what's " Right ".

 

I'm sorry if you're foolish enough to not believe there is any such thing as right and wrong. It's not my fault. Perhaps your parents failed you in some way.

And now a personal attack.lol.gif Like I've already said. Desperate. ( wink if I could )

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #67 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Like I've already said. Desperate.

 

What am I "desperate" about or for exactly?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #68 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Like I've already said. Desperate.

 

What am I "desperate" about or for exactly?

Your position or lack there of.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #69 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Your position or lack there of.

 

What position (or lack thereof) am I "desperate" about?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #70 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Your position or lack there of.

 

What position (or lack thereof) am I "desperate" about?

Personal attacks are desperate. You really need to answer some of your own questions MJ.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #71 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

Personal attacks are desperate.

 

Then we can conclude that you must be also. OK.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

You really need to answer some of your own questions MJ.

 

So you just claim I'm "desperate" about my position (or lack thereof) but cannot explain what position and why. I see.

 

Brilliant.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #72 of 101
Thread Starter 

Ron Paul and Gary Johnson’s supporters are not a “nonfactor” in this election

Quote:
America has fallen a long and terrible way from George Washington’s farewell address in which the first U.S. president warned “I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the state … The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism.”
 
Today, petty browbeating and factional elitism in Washington D.C. has replaced George Washington’s spirit of humility and wisdom.  We have seen narcissism overtake nationalism and partisanship replace patriotism.
 
Today, if you don’t identify with the Democrat or Republican parties or don’t want to vote for Mitt Romney or Barack Obama in November, you’re despised as electoral ragamuffin, political flotsam and a “nonfactor” in the pages of history. Now some would call that “pragmatism.” I call it electoral bigotry.
 
If America’s Founding Fathers could look from the balconies of heaven upon the Great Republic Experiment they birthed, their eyes would be shedding tears upon us like a squall of winter raindrops. The same nation that began with a Declaration of Independence that said “Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed” now is a nation controlled by politicians who insist they know best for us, that their plans are better than our plans and that all of us must sacrifice our unique values and history so that they can make history.
 
Like the Bible’s prophet Hosea of ancient antiquity bemoaned, “because your hostility is so great, the prophet is considered a fool, the inspired man a maniac.” No scholar or expert can have a serious discussion in this country anymore because the agenda setting power rests with people who refuse to accept rebuke from the very people – now awake – that in prior elections were lulled into voting for charlatans in gray suits and maroon ties.
 
No one can talk about real issues anymore because hyperbole and innuendo are now preferable to salt and light. Any attempt to address America’s debt crisis, her costly and losing commitment to meaningless military engagements abroad and the collapse of our government institutions at home is met with elitist sneers, ridicule and contempt. We are told that others, smarter and more competent know better than us and that we should simply know our place and vote for left or right.
 
This is a pattern that is happening not just in America, but the world over. If liberty is extinguished here in America, there is no other place for Americans to flee to or seek refuge in. Nigel Farage, a UKIP MEP, speaking of Europe’s bureaucratization warned of what he calls a “moral mutation” and says of the EU, “Money from taxpayers and consumers is channeled, by this system, into those parts of the civil infrastructure, which support the incumbent parties and for the last few decades, have ensured that these parties remain collectively in power and that they resolutely continue with the work of removing from society all concept of moral value, other than that defined by themselves.”
 
We would be wise to take heed to those words and to ensure that America does not fall into that same moral mutation, though she is already showing signs of massive political and social metastasis.
 
Now consider this: Gary Johnson and Ron Paul both are men whose movements have attracted people who are sick and tired of being sick and tired. They are people who are increasingly less interested in left and right and more concerned about right and wrong. For them, this election is a referendum not on personalities but on paradigms. They are tired of explanations, tired of excuses and tired of waiting for a false political tagline salvation that never comes.
 
There is good reason not to vote for Barack Obama or Mitt Romney. On my ballot, I have a third party choice and I will vote for it. I am a Libertarian, and for president I am voting Libertarian! It has nothing to do with irrational disdain for either candidate and more to do with choosing to say that America needs to know that there are people who do not agree with the two parties and refuse – politely, yet firmly – to be peer pressured into voting for platforms and presidential candidates that do not represent their view of a government “as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
 
Contrary to what you have been told, a third party vote isn’t a vote for Barack Obama or Mitt Romney. It’s a vote for a future that though delayed today cannot be denied tomorrow if enough people have the faith to pursue it. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Faith calls those things which are not as though they are until they are. And in this election, there are those of us who will choose the third choice because we choose to believe in an America so much better than what we've been offered by the two party system.
 
Change begins with a courageous choice. You've heard it before: what is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right. Do not be moved by peer pressure or intellectual intimidation. The two parties may revel and glory that they hold majority today, but remember you still hold the vote. And as Shakespeare wrote, “Glory is like a circle in the water, which never ceaseth to enlarge itself, till, by broad spreading, it disperse to naught.”
 
Some of you reading this may be Republican. Then vote Republican. Some of you may be Democrats. Then vote Democrat. Good for you. But others of you are Americans commited only to the labels of liberty and justice for all, and to you I say this:
 
Your vote counts. Your opinion matters. If your heart feels led to vote third party, know that a vote for a third party is never a wasted vote, and this is your time to choose!

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #73 of 101

Agreed.  The Republican party has lost its conservative ideals.  If you want to vote for a true conservative, vote for Gary Johnson.  Mitt Romney is a big-government, lying joke and you know it.  Pass the word along to all your Republican friends, too.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #74 of 101
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Agreed.  The Republican party has lost its conservative ideals.  If you want to vote for a true conservative, vote for Gary Johnson.  Mitt Romney is a big-government, lying joke and you know it.  Pass the word along to all your Republican friends, too.

 

Gary Johnson is more conservative than Romney and more liberal than Obama. He's the only candidate advocating liberty.

 

Democrats, if you are sick and tired of the empty promises from Obama on everything from marriage equality to ending the wars, vote for Gary Johnson. And pass the word along to all your Democrat friends, too.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #75 of 101

 

This is a very eloquently written piece and very effective.  If Barack Obama were not as dangerous to the future, the immediate future, of America as I believe he truly is I would be moved to vote Libertarian myself.  However, my decision is motivated much more by what I see as the impending disaster of a second term of Barack Obama.  In no way do I have blind faith that Mitt Romney is going to be able to miraculously dial back the size and scope of the Federal government, even if he were so inclined.  Furthermore I'm under no disillusion that he is going to slash the federal budget down to manageable levels.  I also realize that the President, while a powerful position, can't make these kind of sweeping changes without the support of Congress.

 

It's a nice article, and you truly have my sympathy.  Unfortunately you don't have my vote.  The reelection of Barack Obama is too much of a risk for me to do anything other than vote for Mitt Romney.

post #76 of 101
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by svnipp View Post

 

This is a very eloquently written piece and very effective.  If Barack Obama were not as dangerous to the future, the immediate future, of America as I believe he truly is I would be moved to vote Libertarian myself.  However, my decision is motivated much more by what I see as the impending disaster of a second term of Barack Obama.  In no way do I have blind faith that Mitt Romney is going to be able to miraculously dial back the size and scope of the Federal government, even if he were so inclined.  Furthermore I'm under no disillusion that he is going to slash the federal budget down to manageable levels.  I also realize that the President, while a powerful position, can't make these kind of sweeping changes without the support of Congress.

 

It's a nice article, and you truly have my sympathy.  Unfortunately you don't have my vote.  The reelection of Barack Obama is too much of a risk for me to do anything other than vote for Mitt Romney.

 

I understand your reasoning. I disagree with it, but I understand it. I once voted out of fear, too.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #77 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

 

I understand your reasoning. I disagree with it, but I understand it. I once voted out of fear, too.

 

Well, running out of a burning building is done out of fear for my life, and it would indeed keep me from burning to death.  I would love to be as completely in line with Mitt Romney as most Ron Paul supporters are with him, but I'll settle for his being the vastly better choice of the two options available.

post #78 of 101
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by svnipp View Post

 

Well, running out of a burning building is done out of fear for my life, and it would indeed keep me from burning to death.  I would love to be as completely in line with Mitt Romney as most Ron Paul supporters are with him, but I'll settle for his being the vastly better choice of the two options available.

 

To use your analogy, from my perspective the people running out of the burning building (voting for Romney out of fear of Obama) are too busy looking back at the fire to see that they are running strait into another building that was just prepped for demolition.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #79 of 101
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

 

Gary Johnson is more conservative than Romney and more liberal than Obama. He's the only candidate advocating liberty.

 

Democrats, if you are sick and tired of the empty promises from Obama on everything from marriage equality to ending the wars, vote for Gary Johnson. And pass the word along to all your Democrat friends, too.

Too bad that Democrats will wildly disagree with him on the role of government.  Sorry, doesn't work the same way.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #80 of 101
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Too bad that Democrats will wildly disagree with him on the role of government.  Sorry, doesn't work the same way.

 

Yes, Democrats seem to believe the government is the solution to the ills of society without realizing it's a major contributor to the problems.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › Is [Gary Johnson] the Sanest Man Running for President?