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Windows Store discounts, optional subscriptions to undercut Apple's App Store

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 
Microsoft released new details of its Windows 8 plans on Tuesday, differentiating its upcoming Windows Store from Apple's own App Store and Mac App Store by offering a 20/80 revenue split to developers after their first $25,000 in sales and allowing third-party in-app purchase and subscription options.

The Redmond, Wash., Windows maker also announced on Tuesday an upcoming public beta of the next version of Windows in late February, ahead of a release sometime in 2012, MacNN reports.

Microsoft Web Services VP Antoine LeBlond touted the company's Windows Store, a feature in Windows 8 that resembles Apple's own digital storefront models, as being more friendly to publishers and developers. Though the software maker plans to offer in-app purchase and subscription features, developers will be allowed to use alternative options as well.

Leblond highlighted an application from The Daily Telegraph that used its own back-end systems to process subscriptions.

"Its not an app you could have on the iPad," he said, adding that his company was looking to find a balance between differing strategies from Apple and Google. Where Apple has quality control and a strict, and sometimes opaque, approval process, Google has a lax approval process that sometimes suffers from malware issues.

Microsoft is also looking to woo developers to its application store by undercutting Apple's 70/30 revenue split. The software giant will take a 30 percent cut only for the first $25,000 in app sales or in-app transactions before dropping its take to just 20 percent. The Windows Store will, however have a higher minimum price of $1.49.

The company will also require that touch-based Metro apps be offered through the Windows Store. Microsoft first teased the application store in a preview of Windows 8 earlier this year. In August, Windows chief Steven Sinofsky revealed that the company had an "App Store" team that was hard at work on the storefront.



Microsoft has been a highly vocal opponent of Apple's application to trademark the "App Store" name, arguing that the mark is invalid because it is generic. Apple fired back at its long-time rival by arguing that "Windows" is also a generic term.

For its part, Apple has taken flak for its rules on in-app purchases and subscriptions. In February, the company unveiled the terms of its subscription feature, banning links to external websites to purchase content or subscriptions. A number of prominent publishers and developers initially balked at the rules, though many eventually acquiesced. Apple itself conceded some ground in June when it loosened up on a restriction that prevented developers from selling content at a lower price outside of the App Store.
post #2 of 46
"Microsoft has been a highly vocal opponent of Apple's application to trademark the "App Store" name, arguing that the mark is invalid because it is generic. Apple fired back at its long-time rival by arguing that "Windows" is also a generic term."

That. And:

As far as I can think back... it was like this:
Macintosh --> Applications / Applications Folder
Windows --> Programs / Program Files / …

Never EVER has Redmond before the arrival of the App Store on iOS used the word Application. 'App' just being an acronym for Application. So if it is such an inavoidable term... why haven't they had applications during the past 20 years ?
Why then call it 'App Store' and not... in line with their current naming scheme 'Prog Store'.

Apple may at times be a real pain in the ass. But Microsoft here proves again that they are cheap bastards.
post #3 of 46
"It’s not an app you could have on the iPad”

Yes. You quite easily could, and the iPad has many similar apps. In fact, it looks to me like The Daily Telegraph has two different subscription apps for iPad already.

If they said, “it’s a less-automatic, less-trusted, less-secure, less user-friendly (and in the end therefore less likely to be used and less profitable) revenue path that a publisher could not ask users to accept on the iPad,” then yes.
post #4 of 46
In the video he shows this idea wall they use to inspire themselves. Well, this App Store is basically what Apple did but with 20% instead of 30%, so I don't know why you need a special wall to think of that.
post #5 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

If they said, its a less-automatic, less-trusted, less-secure, less user-friendly (and in the end therefore less likely to be used and less profitable) revenue path that a publisher could not ask users to accept on the iPad, then yes.

Yes, it's far more convenient for the customer to just give their payment details to one company (Apple) and pay for everything through that. Unlike the web where you have to give your details to 50 different sites - what a security nightmare and MS is bringing that same experience to the tablet it seems.

I don't know why publishers care about Apple's cut anyway. It's perfectly reasonable to ask for a cut to pay for all that hosting and downloading and iPad software development, and Apple do not stop them simply increasing their price to make up for it. Of course competition might prevent them doing that, but that's life.
post #6 of 46
I gave my girlfriend my late 2008 Al macbook. She is in love with it. She turns it on and the way she goes. She hasn't touched her windows 7 powered HP is a month. Heheheheh!
post #7 of 46
What is the install base on Windows on mobile platforms? Does it justify this? Even Apple launched the App Store a year after the iPhone was launched.

Is this the "pump in a lot of money, take a hit now and make a profit sometime later, maybe" strategy that was followed for the PS3, Kindle Fire and XBox?
post #8 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheralSadurns View Post

"Never EVER has Redmond before the arrival of the App Store on iOS used the word Application. 'App' just being an acronym for Application. So if it is such an inavoidable term... why haven't they had applications during the past 20 years ?
Why then call it 'App Store' and not... in line with their current naming scheme 'Prog Store'.


Totally false, Microsoft has been using Application word since DOS 3.0 times, even in the user manuals

And they have been using app as an acronym of application since at least XP.
post #9 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by BestKeptSecret View Post

What is the install base on Windows on mobile platforms? Does it justify this? Even Apple launched the App Store a year after the iPhone was launched.

Is this the "pump in a lot of money, take a hit now and make a profit sometime later, maybe" strategy that was followed for the PS3, Kindle Fire and XBox?

microsoft is killing it with the xbox. They will do the same with this segment.

2020 marketshare: android 54%, M$: 39%, apple: 7%

apple is on a downward trajectory, pretty obvious
post #10 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by realitycheck69 View Post

microsoft is killing it with the xbox. They will do the same with this segment.

2020 marketshare: android 54%, M$: 39%, apple: 7%

apple is on a downward trajectory, pretty obvious

What do you mean, "killing it with the xbox" in present tense? They "killed it" when introducing the 360, it has been an effort to make money all along. Only the original XBox was planned as a money-for-marketshare deal.
post #11 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by realitycheck69 View Post

2020 marketshare: android 54%, M$: 39%, apple: 7%

apple is on a downward trajectory, pretty obvious

Wishful thinking?
post #12 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The company will also require that touch-based Metro apps be offered through the Windows Store.

Metro apps aren't "touch based" they are "touch first", meaning kb/mouse, track-pad and multi-touch are all first class citizens.

I expect most "mainstream" users will actually get a better user experience by sticking with the Metro UI on their tablets and notebooks.

Desktop I'm not so sure (who actually sits at a desktop to read email and browse the web these days?).


Quote:
Originally Posted by TheralSadurns View Post

Why then call it 'App Store' and not... in line with their current naming scheme 'Prog Store'.

Did you read the article? It's not called the "App Store".
post #13 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by realitycheck69 View Post

microsoft is killing it with the xbox. They will do the same with this segment. 2020 marketshare: android 54%, M$: 39%, apple: 7%

Apple is on a downward trajectory, pretty obvious

I think in 5 years if you throw all devices people use to access their "digital life" (i.e. PCs, media tablets, phones etc) into a big pile you're going to end up with three major significant platforms.

Android, iOS/OSX and Windows.

I think their marketshares will be a lot more even than you guessed.
post #14 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by realitycheck69 View Post

microsoft is killing it with the xbox. They will do the same with this segment.

2020 marketshare: android 54%, M$: 39%, apple: 7%

apple is on a downward trajectory, pretty obvious

Lol. If by downward trajectory you mean upward trajectory. And if by killing it you mean making a few millions a year after losing many billions to establish it. And if by killing it marketshare wise you mean competing neck and neck for the 2nd place spot in the industry.
post #15 of 46
Nobody's going to buy the windows 8 crap so while M$ might be generously giving you 10% more of your money, it's still nothing.
post #16 of 46
Despite my previous comment I hope this spurs Apple to offer even more to developers.
post #17 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by spliceguy View Post

Nobody's going to buy the windows 8 crap so while M$ might be generously giving you 10% more of your money, it's still nothing.

That is a wonderful first post. Spelling Microsoft as "M$" may be a little old school now that Apple is the one pocketing the "$" (totally not by anticompetitive practices!) but it conveys positive, energetic hatred as efficiently as ever. You should join us on Sundays when we gather together to hate Microsoft. It's a lot of fun!
post #18 of 46
There was a video and some screenshots that came out with Microsoft's small event today, not shown in this article. For those interested, check it out here:
http://www.theverge.com/2011/12/6/26...ent/in/2293029
http://www.viddler.com/explore/engadget/videos/3597/
post #19 of 46
Quote:
Why then call it 'App Store' and not... in line with their current naming scheme 'Prog Store'.
Apple may at times be a real pain in the ass. But Microsoft here proves again that they are cheap bastards

Maybe it's because most consumers are quite naive about what the difference between an app, application and program is, Microsoft have an uphill battle against iPad as everyone knows, so they don't wont to hurt their chances. That said the store is called "Windows Store" that sells apps, not "App Store", this can be confirmed from the Windows Store Blog. Obviously app has become a fashionable term, which was used well before Apple used it, though Apple definately popularized the term, and Android. To me it's just a silly way of shortening the word application, so I see no real reason Apple needs to hold on to it as a badge of creative word play
post #20 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by realitycheck69 View Post

microsoft is killing it with the xbox. They will do the same with this segment.

2020 marketshare: android 54%, M$: 39%, apple: 7%

apple is on a downward trajectory, pretty obvious

Apple stock is slated to hit $500 in the next quarter. Where is Microsoft headed? I'll tell you where. Virtually the same price that they were in 2005. I know because I owned a boat load of it and it was a dog, still is a dog. The problem is their innovation department is sub par. The current slate of OS's that they have are horrendous (just bought my kid a netbook and it was an extreme headache to even setup to a network), and I'm not sure what focus group was consulted with this tile based Windows 8, but its completely ridiculous.

The one bright start MS has is the XBox. They've began to expand the platform into the television/entertainment area, which was the right thing to do. However, the failure will be the poor software integration that pulls all devices together, like Apple will do with flying colors. Developers know this and the stink of past failures will discourage many from developing for the platform, discount or no discount. When working from a copy, the end result is never any good, no matter how many renditions you create. Until Balmer leaves, or they have some kind of serious shake up at the top and directional shift, second class is where MS will remain. God help them if their monopolistic hold on their enterprise business ever falters via new regulations or competition. They won't survive.
post #21 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Did you read the article? It's not called the "App Store".

This article refers to the upcoming store as "The Windows Store" but it doesn't state that this is the official name that Microsoft will indeed use. I think the point trying to be made here is that Microsoft has been making a fuss about "App Store" (after they've used "Windows" for decades). Why would they care, unless they were planning on using the phrase somewhere in their marketing?
post #22 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

"Its not an app you could have on the iPad

Yes. You quite easily could,.

A newspaper/magazine app yes. But he's really taking a dig on the whole 'in app through Apple or out of app off your system with zero links in the app' rules.

and frankly I think he'll find that many folks don't really care that much. It think that Microsoft also set the bar at $25k because they know that only a small cut of apps (30% tops) will ever hit that amount and get the reduction. Especially if they allow free apps.

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post #23 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by realitycheck69 View Post

apple is on a downward trajectory, pretty obvious

True. But it is a rather slow slide, and caused more by an increase in the total amount of units in the market and not a drop in Apple sales. Same with the whole Kindle Fire thing.

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post #24 of 46
csvsm Does having Apple stock make your opinion more valid than mine?
I have heard the kid with netbook story a few times on this site in a copule days, it's hard to believe this story is not just being thrown around as a mechanism to disprove Windows whenever necessary. How could Windows have 90%+ market share, yet not even connect to a network.
Apple are not the only company coming up with original ideas, you sound like a typical true blinded consumer, with in an unability to see outside you own little tech bubble
post #25 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by realitycheck69 View Post

2020 marketshare: android 54%, M$: 39%, apple: 7%

apple is on a downward trajectory, pretty obvious

2020 profits: android .07%, MS .03% apple 99%

Profits > Market Share
post #26 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by j1h15233 View Post

2020 profits: android .07%, MS .03% apple 99%

Profits > Market Share

Look, another post with wishful thinking
post #27 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmvsm View Post

The current slate of OS's that they have are horrendous (just bought my kid a netbook and it was an extreme headache to even setup to a network)

It as difficult as setting a network in OS X
post #28 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by hzc View Post

This article refers to the upcoming store as "The Windows Store" but it doesn't state that this is the official name that Microsoft will indeed use.

It's called the Windows Store.
post #29 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braden99 View Post

I have heard the kid with netbook story a few times on this site in a copule days, it's hard to believe this story is not just being thrown around as a mechanism to disprove Windows whenever necessary. How could Windows have 90%+ market share, yet not even connect to a network.

Click the network icon on the taskbar. Click your network. Enter the password.

Done.



Pro Tip: Check the box that says "Connect to this network automatically" and they everafter, all you need to do is turn on your computer.
post #30 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by hzc View Post

This article refers to the upcoming store as "The Windows Store" but it doesn't state that this is the official name that Microsoft will indeed use. I think the point trying to be made here is that Microsoft has been making a fuss about "App Store" (after they've used "Windows" for decades). Why would they care, unless they were planning on using the phrase somewhere in their marketing?

Mmmm... "There's an Windows for that!"
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post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gon View Post

That is a wonderful first post. Spelling Microsoft as "M$" may be a little old school now that Apple is the one pocketing the "$" (totally not by anticompetitive practices!) but it conveys positive, energetic hatred as efficiently as ever. You should join us on Sundays when we gather together to hate Microsoft. It's a lot of fun!

I think he may be a cnet graduate. Cnet forums is the preschool of Apple v Microsoft online rivalry and peculiarly stuck in a time warp of redundancy.
post #32 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheralSadurns View Post

"Microsoft has been a highly vocal opponent of Apple's application to trademark the "App Store" name, arguing that the mark is invalid because it is generic. Apple fired back at its long-time rival by arguing that "Windows" is also a generic term."

That. And:

As far as I can think back... it was like this:
Macintosh --> Applications / Applications Folder
Windows --> Programs / Program Files /

Never EVER has Redmond before the arrival of the App Store on iOS used the word Application. 'App' just being an acronym for Application. So if it is such an inavoidable term... why haven't they had applications during the past 20 years ?
Why then call it 'App Store' and not... in line with their current naming scheme 'Prog Store'.

I like it - the Windows Prog store. I bet you Balmer championed that one.
post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I like it - the Windows Prog store. I bet you Balmer championed that one.

Actually, if they had any sense of taste (and committment) -- they'd call it the Metro Store.
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post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The software giant will take a 30 percent cut only for the first $25,000 in app sales or in-app transactions before dropping its take to just 20 percent. The Windows Store will, however have a higher minimum price of $1.49.

So, mathematically speaking, this is an improvement over Apple's policy how?
post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

So, mathematically speaking, this is an improvement over Apple's policy how?

Well, if the same number of apps are sold, the developer makes 70% of $1.49 instead of 70% of $0.99 for the first $25,000 - and then 80% of $1.49 instead of 70% of $0.99 for the rest. Should be pretty obvious.

Of course, what's not obvious is the number of apps that will be sold. If you sell 10,000 apps in the Apple store at $0.99 vs 5,000 apps in the Windows store for $1.49, the math will change.

Result? There's no obvious winner. It will all depend on circumstances. However, it is safe to say that for a developer whose app is already > $1.49 and who sells significant numbers (over $25 K), they will come out ahead on the Windows store if the volume is the same.
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post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Well, if the same number of apps are sold, the developer makes 70% of $1.49 instead of 70% of $0.99 for the first $25,000 - and then 80% of $1.49 instead of 70% of $0.99 for the rest. Should be pretty obvious.

Of course, what's not obvious is the number of apps that will be sold. If you sell 10,000 apps in the Apple store at $0.99 vs 5,000 apps in the Windows store for $1.49, the math will change.

Result? There's no obvious winner. It will all depend on circumstances. However, it is safe to say that for a developer whose app is already > $1.49 and who sells significant numbers (over $25 K), they will come out ahead on the Windows store if the volume is the same.

Are there even 25,000 people who have a Windows phone?
post #37 of 46
I guess you will not be able to actually buy anything on the Windows Store. The apps will all be unlockable demos so they don't have to share any revenue. You'll have to enter your credit card info in the app and maybe even use serial numbers. There is a reason apple charges the same for in-app purchases. I personally think that Apple doesn't quite have it right, but at least they are closer then Microsoft.
post #38 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by j1h15233 View Post

Are there even 25,000 people who have a Windows phone?

What makes you think that it's only going to work for Windows Phone users?
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post #39 of 46
all i can say is: eat s*** and die off, MS.
post #40 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

It's called the Windows Store.

i thought it was 'Malware Alley'?
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