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Apple appeals denied injunction of Samsung Galaxy sales in the US

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
Apple has appealed its case for a preliminary injunction against four Samsung Galaxy devices to the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit in the U.S., with one legal expert claiming Apple stands a "pretty good chance" of convincing the court to overturn at least some parts of the original ruling.

The Cupertino, Calif., company submitted its appeal earlier this week, as discovered by FOSS Patents blogger Florian Mueller.

The filing takes issue with District Judge Lucy Koh's Dec. 2 ruling that denied Apple's request for a preliminary injunction of Samsung's Droid Charge, Galaxy S 4G, Infuse 4G and Galaxy Tab 10.1 devices.

Mueller asserted the opinion that Apple is "doing the absolutely right thing" with the appeal and went on to note that Koh's analysis of the situation appears "fundamentally flawed" to him. Though he did say that Koh's finding that Apple didn't show an entitlement to injunctive relief was "somewhat conclusory," he disagreed with her assessment and definition of the "relevant market and competitive dynamics."

"Apple has a pretty good chance here that the Federal Circuit will find some serious flaws in Judge Koh's reasoning on the equitable factors. A critical reader of her ruling can't help but conclude that her denial of injunctive relief is not well-reasoned to say the least," he wrote.

Additionally, Mueller suggested that the Court of Appeals would be concerned with the "incredibly high bar" that Koh set for injunctions, both preliminary and permanent. Though an overturning of an injunction denial is not a common occurrence, he did say that it's "very likely" that at least some of the judge's arguments would be reversed. The appeals court could, for example, correct any flaws in the ruling and remand it to Koh for reconsideration, the report noted.

Any improvements to Apple's situation would have a bearing not just on the preliminary injunction segment of the case, but also the main proceeding to discuss a permanent injunction scheduled for a trial next summer.

Assuming that the Court of Appeals decides to hear Apple's appeal, the process would take "a number of months," Muller said, adding that a decision should arrive before Koh rules on a permanent injunction.

Mueller even speculated that Apple could get support during the appeal in the form of curiae briefs from other patent holders due to concerns that Koh's ruling could give infringers a "license of right" or "compulsory license."

Apple has already won a permanent ban on the Galaxy Tab 10.1 tablet in Germany, where, according to Mueller, injunctions are automatically triggered upon infringement of valid patents. Samsung has responded by making slight modifications to the device's design and re-releasing it in the country as the Galaxy Tab 10.1N.

In fact, Apple has even offered possible alternative designs to Samsung that would help it avoid violating its patents. The iPad maker provided suggestions such as using a non-black front surface, varying the bezel size, or introducing a "cluttered appearance."

Illustration from court brief comparing iPad and Galaxy Tab profiles | Source: The Verge

However, Apple was unsatisfied with the changes Samsung made for the Galaxy Tab 10.1N and has since asked the German court to also block sales of that device. The new 10.1N features a metal frame that wraps around its edges.

The redesigned Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1N is shown up top. Via Mobiflip.de.

Apple and Samsung are locked in a tense legal dispute that began back in April. The disagreement has since spread to over 20 complaints spanning 10 countries.

Samsung recently won a reprieve from an Apple victory that had caused a two-month ban on sales of its Galaxy Tab 10.1 in Australia. The device has been approved for sale in the country and is expected to hit the market next Monday, though Apple has appealed the reversal.
post #2 of 30
Lol, Just hire Florian Mueller to write for AppleInsider already! He can join other staff writers Shaw Wu and Astok Kumar

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #3 of 30
Florian Mueller thinks highly of Apple's chances? Say it aint so.

As soon as I read the "one legal expert" I just knew it was Florian Mueller. For clarity, do we have any other "legal experts" that agree with FM or are there any legal experts with an opposite view at all?
I understand the reporting bias at AI but It'd be nice to get the whole picture.

The thing withall experts, analysts and ponderers is that no one fires back at them when they get it wrong (oracle Smokong Gun post by FM anyone?)
"Very disappointing to have people judging something without all the facts." - charlituna.
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"Very disappointing to have people judging something without all the facts." - charlituna.
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post #4 of 30
Regardless of who is right or wrong in all this patent crap, one thing is sure - procedures take way too long, both in the US and elsewhere. Preliminary hearings, preliminary rulings, appeals, appeals, appeals, hearings, appeals, appeals, appeals. Does not matter what the result is there are always multiple appeals.

If a company starts infringing or is accused of infringing half way through a patents enforceable lifespan, the patent has almost expired before all this crap is over.

There needs to be a way of speeding up the process.
post #5 of 30
In other news, Hanes has announced it's lawsuit against Fruit of the Loom, and demanding an immediate injunction baring them from selling white T-shirts and tighty whities. Other than the label, could you tell the difference between the two? IP infringement!!!!
post #6 of 30
I've never understood the supposed ban on Galaxy Tab 10.1 sales in Germany. The 10.1 has always been available (and still is) on Amazon.de ... now alongside the 10.1n ... not a very effective injunction.
post #7 of 30
Wondering if one of these spats will ever appear in an episode of "The Good Wife"?
post #8 of 30
I guess the courts think that industrial design is easy and worthless, so there's no point in preventing lazier companies from copying successful products, essentially stealing sales by tricking gullible people into buying their clones. Caveat Emptor rules... A pretty sad commentary on our patent courts, which I thought were to protect the people who invested the efforts to create the successful products.

- Dave Marsh
iMac Intel 27" 3.4GHz, iPad Air 64GB, iPhone 5 32GB

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- Dave Marsh
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post #9 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

In other news, Hanes has announced it's lawsuit against Fruit of the Loom, and demanding an immediate injunction baring them from selling white T-shirts and tighty whities. Other than the label, could you tell the difference between the two? IP infringement!!!!

did you just compare fashion with tech??
i speak no americano (by the way, nice song) but dude come on… speak some sense.

my way or the highway...

Macbook Pro i7 13" with intel SSD 320 series and 8GB RAM, iPhone 5, iPad 3 (Retina)

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my way or the highway...

Macbook Pro i7 13" with intel SSD 320 series and 8GB RAM, iPhone 5, iPad 3 (Retina)

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post #10 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotoformat View Post

Wondering if one of these spats will ever appear in an episode of "The Good Wife"?

I thought the same thing!
post #11 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyTab View Post

Florian Mueller thinks highly of Apple's chances? Say it aint so.

As soon as I read the "one legal expert" I just knew it was Florian Mueller. For clarity, do we have any other "legal experts" that agree with FM or are there any legal experts with an opposite view at all?
I understand the reporting bias at AI but It'd be nice to get the whole picture.

The thing withall experts, analysts and ponderers is that no one fires back at them when they get it wrong (oracle Smokong Gun post by FM anyone?)

I'm sure you could recommend someone for "the whole picture". And the Oracle/Google thing hasn't come close to playing out yet, so your proclamation about the Java license email is a tad premature. You'd probably know that if you read more FM.
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themacadvocate.com
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Snarky Mac commentary, occasionally using bad words.
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post #12 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMacadvocate View Post

I'm sure you could recommend someone for "the whole picture". And the Oracle/Google thing hasn't come close to playing out yet, so your proclamation about the Java license email is a tad premature. You'd probably know that if you read more FM.

IMO, Groklaw has a more complete/balanced set of articles on the Oracle/Google situation, especially combined with a few of Florian's details. Note that the folks at Groklaw.com are lawyers while Florian is a legal observer.

EDIT: As an aside, Mr. Mueller has had a very long history with Microsoft and recently acknowledged he's in their employ on a new project. To be fair he claims that it doesn't color his opinions posted at FOSSPatents. Personally I seriously question that considering there's very newsworthy legal issues going on between Microsoft and Barnes & Noble that he's not posted details of. Rather than the pushover MS might have expected, B&N has put up an excellent defense so far. From appearances there may be some shady things going on over at MS that Florian seems to wish to avoid a mention of.

"The International Trade Commission has granted [PDF, 70 pages] Barnes & Noble's request that the ITC recommend that Barnes & Noble be granted international assistance from the Ministry of Justice of Finland under Article 3 of the Hague Convention to obtain testimony from Stephen Elop, CEO of Nokia, and other key executives of the company, as well as help to obtain certain documentary evidence, like the signed agreements between the three entities Microsoft, Nokia and MOSAID.

The ITC also granted Barnes & Noble's request for permission to seek evidence from MOSAID Technologies, a Canadian corporation, via a letter rogatory. The Administrative Law Judge ruled [PDF] that it was evidence that is "reasonably necessary to investigate fully Barnes & Noble's affirmative defense of patent misuse against" Microsoft, so he recommended to the US District Court for the District of Columbia that it issue the letter rogatory."
http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?s...11208101818692

Back to live programming now.
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post #13 of 30
I haven't looked up on this, but the judges name would obviously make her oriental, but maybe still having ties to Asia or even South Korea which would skew the trial.
post #14 of 30
I recall informing someone on this board of their ignorance towards the legal system. That thread turned into 160 plus diatribe of nothing where everyone rehashed pics of prior case designs.

As I stated before, the person is ignorant of corporate law.
post #15 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by btonedem View Post

Korean patriotism lies in blood, not citizenship.

Very well said.
post #16 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by btonedem View Post

Korean patriotism lies in blood, not citizenship.

What a disgusting and ridiculously racist viewpoint. It's views like these that led to the internment of Japanese Americans and Canadians during World War II.
post #17 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arasu View Post

Very well said.

Let me guess. You believe in racial profiling too?
post #18 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


The Cupertino, Calif., company submitted its appeal earlier this week, as discovered by FOSS Patents blogger Florian Mueller.


Maybe Apple will learn that it is not how many lawyers you pay that makes the difference, but instead, the determining factor is whether you have any legal grounds to stand on.

Spending money on lawyers != having a good case.
post #19 of 30
Wow. I can't believe the comments on here. Rule against Apple and it's not a professional judgement but a decision based on tribal ties. What a disgustingly racist viewpoint. Some of you need to give your heads a shake.
post #20 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachkolk View Post

I haven't looked up on this, but the judges name would obviously make her oriental, but maybe still having ties to Asia or even South Korea which would skew the trial.

post #21 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

.

I'm shocked that you think Apple is silly for litigating this stuff - just shocked!

Since you choose to ignore facts in evidence to bolster your opinion with hyperbole, it makes sense you post the stuff you do. It is a little like the kid in class that loves to make rude noises to attract attention to themselves - even if it is negative attention. *SIGH*

It is however interesting that the judge dismissed both T-Mobile and Sprint's amicus briefs (in this case NOT the tighty-whiteys that Cash907 was so concerned about) as self-serving and basically claiming that if patent violation occurs it should be allowed because someone would benefit from it.

As the patent stuff gets sorted out, it will be interesting to see if the EU is successful in making FRAND participation more restrictive and increase the controls on what FRAND holders can and cannot do. I have to imagine that Apple, it the process of seeking to disrupt this industry, had to have anticipated some of these activities in setting aside so large a warchest.
If you are going to insist on being an ass, at least demonstrate the intelligence to be a smart one
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If you are going to insist on being an ass, at least demonstrate the intelligence to be a smart one
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post #22 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post

It is a little like the kid in class that loves to make rude noises to attract attention to themselves - even if it is negative attention. *SIGH*

Naw. More like Dawn Davenport being despised by "Miss Holland", who bursts into tears for no good reason.

(Look it up. Google works the best.)
post #23 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyTab View Post

Florian Mueller thinks highly of Apple's chances? Say it aint so.

As soon as I read the "one legal expert" I just knew it was Florian Mueller. For clarity, do we have any other "legal experts" that agree with FM or are there any legal experts with an opposite view at all?
I understand the reporting bias at AI but It'd be nice to get the whole picture.

In a way I have to agree with that. Mueller might be a lawyer and a great one and even specializing in IP law etc etc. But he's not part of the cases, doesn't get to see everything and is basically a 'doctor that hasn't met the patient or treated him' commenting on stuff. It would be nice to balance that with some other legal experts even if they do are commenting in the same way. Just to get a different viewpoint on the issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Marsh View Post

I guess the courts think that industrial design is easy and worthless, so there's no point in preventing lazier companies from copying successful products, essentially stealing sales by tricking gullible people into buying their clones.

Of course they don't think that. IP courts understand 100% how much goes into design etc. But they have been charged not only with protecting inventor 1 from being copied but also with protecting inventor 2 from having spent hours, months and days on something and having inventor 1 shut them down falsely by screaming 'that's mine'. Thus the courts don't just side with the first party and make them really prove there's an issue that should be an issue.

To pull a recent example from copyrights, renowned sci-fi writer Harlan Ellison sued to stop the release of the film "In Time" claiming it was stolen from his story "Repent, repent said the ticktockman". This was after hundreds of thousands of dollars and weeks of time had been spent producing the film. And in the end it turns out that while they have the same basic idea, the plot, place, dialogue, and characters is totally different. Something Ellison didn't know because he had never read the script etc. But the courts get that ideas can't be protected or eventually writers can't write anything because it was done before. So they put it on him to prove details were the same and let the movie be released, saying if he was right they would then shut it down and he could collect damages for the tickets that had sold. He saw the movie, saw that it was totally different and dropped his case.

To bring it back to the whole Apple and Samsung thing, the courts aren't going to kill something like the Tab simply because it's a rectangle because using that shape which is the same shape as the pieces of paper, the books etc the tablet is replacing. But a totality of details that were copied like the same thickness, screen and back materials, bezel width, placement and style of buttons and ports (especially that 30 pin computer connection port that Apple also has patented) and so on, well that's like using the same characters etcfrom someone else's book in your movie. Samsung will try to say that they have no choice, Apple says not true. And the courts are charged with making both sides thoroughly prove their side before deciding. So that they are fair to both sides.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

In other news, Hanes has announced it's lawsuit against Fruit of the Loom, and demanding an immediate injunction baring them from selling white T-shirts and tighty whities. Other than the label, could you tell the difference between the two? IP infringement!!!!


Comments like that just show how little you understand about what's going on in this case. Or perhaps even IP law in general.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #24 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by btonedem View Post

Korean patriotism lies in blood, not citizenship.

Cant say the same with the US.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #25 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

In a way I have to agree with that. Mueller might be a lawyer and a great one and even specializing in IP law etc etc. But he's not part of the cases, doesn't get to see everything and is basically a 'doctor that hasn't met the patient or treated him' commenting on stuff. hould be an issue.

He isn't a lawyer, nor does he have any legal qualifications.
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post #26 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetz View Post

Let me guess. You believe in racial profiling too?

Nope, I was not sincere. But just following the pattern of some insecure guys here patting each other's back.
post #27 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by btonedem
Korean patriotism lies in blood, not citizenship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachkolk View Post

I haven't looked up on this, but the judges name would obviously make her oriental, but maybe still having ties to Asia or even South Korea which would skew the trial.

But a judge of the "Caucasian persuasion" would have no countervailing tendency to skew the trial in another direction?

So the only fair judge would be a member of another species with no economic interest in either continent of interest?

Sheesh. That's the kind of "visual thinking" which kept a number of German spies (and all citizens of Germanic origin) free in the US while hundreds of thousands of patriotic Japanese citizens were interned, had property seized, etc. during WWII.

It would also imply that lacking a Neanderthal community to draw from, we need either a panel of Bonobos from Africa or Orcas from Oceania to give a fair ruling......

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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post #28 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyTab View Post

Florian Mueller thinks highly of Apple's chances? Say it aint so.

As soon as I read the "one legal expert" I just knew it was Florian Mueller. For clarity, do we have any other "legal experts" that agree with FM or are there any legal experts with an opposite view at all?
I understand the reporting bias at AI but It'd be nice to get the whole picture.

The thing withall experts, analysts and ponderers is that no one fires back at them when they get it wrong (oracle Smokong Gun post by FM anyone?)

I've read one beautifully neutral article on AI in recent memory...it just detailed all facts, offered no spin, the topic title wasn't flame bait...it was amazing.

Sadly that wasn't the beginning of something new...it was a diamond in the rough.
post #29 of 30
Quote:
IMO, Groklaw has a more complete/balanced set of articles on the Oracle/Google situation, especially combined with a few of Florian's details. Note that the folks at Groklaw.com are lawyers while Florian is a legal observer.

Mueller's status as a legal observer, as well as someone who has done work for Microsoft is well-documented. I personally think the latter would make him more likely to be biased against Apple. He's also an Android user. I don't think it affects his writing.

I happen to find his posts a lot more accessible than slogging through Groklaw, and a number of tech blogs seem to agree, given the number of references to his posts that are made weekly on sites like Engadget, The Verge and TechCrunch.
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Snarky Mac commentary, occasionally using bad words.
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post #30 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMacadvocate View Post

Mueller's status as a legal observer, as well as someone who has done work for Microsoft is well-documented. I personally think the latter would make him more likely to be biased against Apple.

The enemy of my enemy. . .
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