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HP says it will build new webOS powered tablets by 2013 - Page 2

post #41 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomMcIn View Post

2013 is a lifetime away in the tablet business. The rest of the systems would have to fall flat on their faces for a new product to stand a chance of success starting in 2013.

I think you are right...

And, I believe it will be amajor problem for MS -- as they will not have a viable ARM tablet offering in 2012. Likely, they are hoping for an Intel tablet by 2013.
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post #42 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Meg's between a rock and webOS... she realizes she's in a no win situation no matter what she says... or even if she says nothing.

Mentioning 2013 was just her way of giving a forward looking statement to the analysts.

She might have been better off just saying that HP is fucked...

That vibrator post got you thinking, eh?
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post #43 of 82
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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post #44 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

That vibrator post got you thinking, eh?

I heard that Meg said that webOS would be installed in every vibrator sold in six months time...
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post #45 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I heard that Meg said that webOS would be installed in every vibrator sold in six months time...

I think you've [she's] cracked it!
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post #46 of 82
I swear ... The people at HP that are controlling WebOS must be bipolar.

We love it

We hate it

We're building everything around it

It's crap, and we're killing the department

We're going to make new WebOS tablet in a year

Hold me ...
post #47 of 82
Woz... HP called... They're interested in your ideas about that personal computer thingie....
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post #48 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by blursd View Post

I swear ... The people at HP that are controlling WebOS must be bipolar.

We love it

We hate it

We're building everything around it

It's crap, and we're killing the department

We're going to make new WebOS tablet in a year

Hold me ...

Didn't Meg appoint 18 different groups to evaluate the WebOS group and make recommendations?
It sounds like, rather than reading all the information and taking a decision, she just concatenated all the reports to determine HP's strategy.
post #49 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

While stating her company would "bet heavily with Windows [8 tablets]" in the short term, HP chief executive Meg Whitman stated that the company will return to building a webOS tablet by 2013, if not next year.

The only thing worse than no strategy is a confusing strategy.

We're selling WebOS
We're getting out of PCs
Well, we'll keep PCs, but not WebOS
Maybe we'll keep WebOS, too
No, we'll open source WebOS
But we'll still build tablets with WebOS
.........

Isn't there anyone at that company with a brain?
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
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post #50 of 82
Can some one tell me why HP can't figure out what to do? HP is a huge company. Another thing... Why can't a company like HP design and market a tablet successfully? Why is Apples iPad so much more successful than any others.

As far as the web os goes. I have a Palm TX and it was one of my favorite devices for about 4 years. Then I bought an iPad and the TX now sits collecting dust. I do think that the web os is a good os. I do think it could give Apple a run for their money if its developed right.
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post #51 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerk36 View Post

Can some one tell me why HP can't figure out what to do? HP is a huge company. Another thing... Why can't a company like HP design and market a tablet successfully? Why is Apples iPad so much more successful than any others.

As far as the web os goes. I have a Palm TX and it was one of my favorite devices for about 4 years. Then I bought an iPad and the TX now sits collecting dust. I do think that the web os is a good os. I do think it could give Apple a run for their money if its developed right.

As others have said in the past... there isn't really a tablet market, but there is an iPad market.

Steve had the vision to see what people would want and turned it into reality... the other manufacturers haven't a bloody clue what the market wants and end up with tablets that have no appeal to the mass market and/or copies of Apple's offerings but without the stuffing (plus, for the most part, they don't work that well).
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post #52 of 82
All snide aside... Well, almost all...

I can't help but think that there's a helluva opportunity just laying around here... Just waiting for someone to pick up the pieces...

I believe that HP had an opportunity, with WebOS, to "out-Windows-8" MS in bringing [some of] the desktop to tablets and vice versa -- something, now, only Apple and MS can do... Google has no desktop apps... Nor can they buy the ones they need to be a player!
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post #53 of 82
I'm no expert but want to join the discussion! In my opinion, it's true HP gained market share overnight because of their fire sale - but selling hardware below cost without other revenue streams to support its production (such as selling the content that gets viewed on the hardware) is not sustainable. The gain in market share for HP was a pyrrhic victory.

It's also true that tablet manufacturers now have another OS choice. However, I keep reading in the news that Apple has secured the best component prices by prepaying and also reserved most of the production bandwith of the factories in advance.

Again, I'm not an expert but what I suspect this means is that competitors will build their tablets at the same or higher cost that Apple does. So, let's assume that competitors elect to build a tablet that competes directly with the iPad 2 in hardware specifications. If the hardware costs the same as or more than an iPad to build then there needs to be something extremely compelling about the competing OS and its ecosystem of content and applications for the consumer to buy it over the iPad 2.

If it is true what you said that "WebOS already is a better system than Android" then they may have something compelling and it will be very interesting to see what happens!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxoM3 View Post

Given HP gained 5% marketshare almost overnight with their $99 firesale... and now that WebOS is open source... Tablet manufacturers using Android now have another choice...

Will be interesting to see how this all unfolds. WebOS already is a better system than Android IMHO.
post #54 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by big View Post

I'm no expert but want to join the discussion! In my opinion, it's true HP gained market share overnight because of their fire sale - but selling hardware below cost without other revenue streams to support its production (such as selling the content that gets viewed on the hardware) is not sustainable. The gain in market share for HP was a pyrrhic victory.

It's also true that tablet manufacturers now have another OS choice. However, I keep reading in the news that Apple has secured the best component prices by prepaying and also reserved most of the production bandwith of the factories in advance.

Again, I'm not an expert but what I suspect this means is that competitors will build their tablets at the same or higher cost that Apple does. So, let's assume that competitors elect to build a tablet that competes directly with the iPad 2 in hardware specifications. If the hardware costs the same as or more than an iPad to build then there needs to be something extremely compelling about the competing OS and its ecosystem of content and applications for the consumer to buy it over the iPad 2.

If it is true what you said that "WebOS already is a better system than Android" then they may have something compelling and it will be very interesting to see what happens!!!

In what could have been... Google could have acquired Palm and WebOS for 1/10 of what they are spending for MMI...

They would has a significant patent portfolio an an uncumbered mobile/desktop OS.

We all owe HP a sincere "thank you" for buying Palm..
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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post #55 of 82
What a sorry, sorry tale this is for HP and for WebOS.

HP was a great company that made beautifully engineered pioneering products, and they threw it all away to make PCs and printers. I'm sure many here remember the amazing test equipment HP used to make, not to mention the calculators, of which I have simulators on my iPhone.

I had Palms for years. Palm owned the market and they had a huge community of developers making really good apps, then Palm, through a succession of bad management decisions, just let it all drift away. I was really committed to Palms but I had to give up on them and got an iPhone. When I got the iPhone the IOS apps were worse than the Palm apps, and there are some Palm apps I still miss.

Why are HP telling us what they will do in 2013? Why not next century? Do they think developers will start work on WebOS apps on the strength of this announcement? Tablets are more than anything about their apps and HP has blown it royally. How could a developer be enthusiastic or committed to a platform in such a stop-start-stop environment? Palm was king of the hill and now WebOS will be at square zero in 2013.
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post #56 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Ireland knows who wrote this without having to check.

No one cares.
post #57 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuxoM3 View Post

Given HP gained 5% marketshare almost overnight with their $99 firesale... and now that WebOS is open source... Tablet manufacturers using Android now have another choice...

Will be interesting to see how this all unfolds. WebOS already is a better system than Android IMHO.

So losing hundreds of dollars on every sale is somehow a defining business strategy for success? Give us a break. WebOS is already a non-starter.
post #58 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

So losing hundreds of dollars on every sale is somehow a defining business strategy for success? Give us a break. WebOS is already a non-starter.

Yeah, but..l there really is something there with WebOS....

A lot of technologists like WebOS -- but nobody seems to know how to turn the "there" into $...

IMO, It takes a marketeer who has a longer View of opportunity than the next quarter's numbers...

Think of it this way -- WebOS already has what RIM and MS are trying to deliver in 2012-2013 .
"...The calm is on the water and part of us would linger by the shore, For ships are safe in harbor, but that's not what ships are for."
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post #59 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexus View Post

The Android crowd does not mind WebOS. In fact, most of the big stories on Android sites when HP was pushing WebOS were about the fire sales for $99 and where to get one and when they became sold out.

Cyanogenmod members also worked on porting Android to the tablet. Now with it being open source and all that goodness, on Google+ and some Android sites, people are already talking about Dual-booting Android&WebOS hardware.

Choice is something always cherished in the community, even if it does start a bit of an internal fight at times.

Now To wait for Tizen to release their SDK and source code, and may give Ubuntu Mobile a shot depending on how they handle the UI.

And the post above is a reflection of everything wrong with the android market et al favored by the 1% of techtards who even understand any of this bullshit. The overwhelming number of consumers want convenience and ease of use, along with a rich and vibrant ecosystem, and there is only one player that delivers that. And it is certainly not dual booting android webOS ubuntu tizen developed sdk driven mod rooted google+ goodness provided by cyanogenmod!!!!!
post #60 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

And the post above is a reflection of everything wrong with the android market et al favored by the 1% of techtards who even understand any of this bullshit. The overwhelming number of consumers want convenience and ease of use, along with a rich and vibrant ecosystem, and there is only one player that delivers that. And it is certainly not dual booting android webOS ubuntu tizen developed sdk driven mod rooted google+ goodness provided by cyanogenmod!!!!!

Maybe you misunderstand?

Nobody is suggesting that Dual-booting Android&WebOS hardware is a viable mass-market platform for technophobic grandparents. You are right - Apple has that market sewn up.
post #61 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

And the post above is a reflection of everything wrong with the android market et al favored by the 1% of techtards who even understand any of this bullshit. The overwhelming number of consumers want convenience and ease of use, along with a rich and vibrant ecosystem, and there is only one player that delivers that. And it is certainly not dual booting android webOS ubuntu tizen developed sdk driven mod rooted google+ goodness provided by cyanogenmod!!!!!

What you say is true... However...

Don't discount the geeks... In this case the Android geeks...

They are the Woz, Jobs, Draper (Cap'n Crunch) of their times...

Theiy point our way to the future -- not a future that most of us want to mess with... But most of us want the benefits...

I totally buy the Apple idea of the automatic transmission... But there are times that I just want to shift -- or even set my own gear ratios...
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post #62 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

We seriously do need more choice than iOS and Android. Microsoft, wake up, wake up! You snoozed way too many times.

We do? I can't see the market supporting 4+ platforms in the long run. Developers don't want to publish 4+ versions of every app and consumers don't want to be locked into an also-ran platform. Things will shake out.
post #63 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomMcIn View Post

2013 is a lifetime away in the tablet business. The rest of the systems would have to fall flat on their faces for a new product to stand a chance of success starting in 2013.

Exactly what I was thinking. It comes off more as desperation than anything. Sure, this product line failed and we dumped a billion dollars into it - but maybe we'll have something in another two years! Leadership lately seems quite poor at HP.

OK HP, Touchpad vs. iPad 3 and 4. Go!
post #64 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

They spent months debating on focusing on Web or OS but they couldn't figure out how to do both at the same time.

Ha!

HP has some serious leadership problems at the top. They spend all this money acquiring Palm, develop a pretty nice looking tablet, Cancel it faster than you can say "KIN", Announce plans to divest their hardware business, fire their CEO, undergo regime change, suck the hardware business back in, and then (presumably) try to find a buyer for webOS (which has failed two companies now), failing that, they go open source. I would not be surprised if they flip flopped tomorrow. Watching an American success story like HP flounder like that is not inspiring, and it reminds me that Apple is one bad CEO away from a return to the Spindler/Amelio days.

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post #65 of 82
There's nothing worse than a wrong decision. Except indecision.
post #66 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I think you are right...

And, I believe it will be amajor problem for MS -- as they will not have a viable ARM tablet offering in 2012. Likely, they are hoping for an Intel tablet by 2013.

In 2013 the iPad4 will wipe the floor (hey that rhymes!) with any of these half-assed competitors. Honeycomb and Ice Cream Sandwich doesn't seem to have stormed the charts like Android for smartphones has. Windows8 on ARM/x86 will be a dog's breakfast. Bill Gates and Ballmer need to step down ASAP if they want to have any hope of succeeding outside PC desktops. Windows Phone is still barely breaking through from the outskirts. Personally, Microsoft's best hope is the Xbox360 team just taking over, well, the whole consumer side of Microsoft. Anyone with an Xbox360 (eg. myself, having just recently got into it) knows it is the closest Apple-like experience and provides the closed software-hardware platform necessary for a decent modern consumer experience.

What a legacy. We could see four years of iPad without any decent competition. 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013. *Tearing up a bit here*. Damnit Steve, you left us to early! Look at all these other bozos grasp at thin air (yes, not even straws)... Look at Rubinstein, for all his talent, flounder, without your tutelage! Every now and then I fire up AppleInsider and it hits me that Steve is not alive.
post #67 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Ha!

HP has some serious leadership problems at the top. They spend all this money acquiring Palm, develop a pretty nice looking tablet, Cancel it faster than you can say "KIN", Announce plans to divest their hardware business, fire their CEO, undergo regime change, suck the hardware business back in, and then (presumably) try to find a buyer for webOS (which has failed two companies now), failing that, they go open source. I would not be surprised if they flip flopped tomorrow. Watching an American success story like HP flounder like that is not inspiring, and it reminds me that Apple is one bad CEO away from a return to the Spindler/Amelio days.

Indeed. What is more disturbing is that this seems to be the trend among the large North American tech companies. Adobe, HP, Dell, AMD, Intel (yes), Microsoft, RIM, the list goes on and on.

What the hell happened?
post #68 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

For a tablet I can see WebOS gaining traction where Android can't, but not in the smartphone sector. Still, overall it looks like a rocky road for Android and WebOS in the tablet market. I wouldn't back either horse.

And 2013? Apple will definitely have HiDPI iPads in 2013 and possibly be so entrenched with another iPod-like dominance that HP will scrap will any WebOS tablets long before then.

They can gain traction in the smartphone sector, but they need to create a league of followers first. One thing about WebOS is it's kind of a gateway drug. Gives you a taste of something great. If they could create first fully feature phones, thats pretty much a smartphone that doesn't require an expensive data plan (maybe work with a carrier, like Sprint, and get prices down). Then target people with dumb phone and feature phones. Then also create more powerful smart phones, so when the ones addicted to the WebOS feature phones they will have something WebOS to go to.
post #69 of 82
IMHO, this whole WebOS episode is nothing but an expensive distraction for HP. In 2 years the market will still be dominated by iOS and maybe Android or M$. Today, HP makes the majority of it's profits selling 'big iron' and services to corporations. Minus the $$$ they make on printer consumables, HP has been only marginally profitable with their Consumer-based products. WebOS would have sunken them deeper into that whole because they have to carry all of the R&D costs. With Windoze 8 on tablets they at least have a shot at profitability. Who knows? Perhaps with her consumer packaged goods background Meg can turn the ship around. My guess is she has 18-24 months or HP will again be looking for a new CEO.

WebOS was dead before HP bought it. Another example of good technology married to a poor business model and terrible execution.
post #70 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

There's nothing worse than a wrong decision. Except indecision.

I used to be indecisive, however... now I'm not so sure. \
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post #71 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Indeed. What is more disturbing is that this seems to be the trend among the large North American tech companies. Adobe, HP, Dell, AMD, Intel (yes), Microsoft, RIM, the list goes on and on.

What the hell happened?

In respect of HP, they simply missed the personal computer revolution. HP was best placed to own this market, it had excellent if not visionary*, leadership, technical brilliance, a competent software capability and before-its-time manufacturing capability.

I believe that what is now Agilent should have kept the HP name, which is more in line with the company's original business and today's HP some other name, especially after absorbing Compac. This way at least, the original name would today retain its stellar reputation.

* Of course, HP under Hewlett and Packard was extraordinarily visionary but in this context...
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post #72 of 82
This was a monumental "non-decision."

From a financial standpoint, HP certainly can afford to keep the hundred or so engineers and developers it has in its WebOS group working. The $20 million or so a year that would cost is nothing to a company of HP's size. It also has the beneficial effect of letting HP NOT write off the entire billion dollar investment they made in Palm right away. And who knows, maybe those hundred engineers might come up with something worthwhile.

But webOS is, if not actually clinically dead, on serious life support. Talking about shipping tablets running it in 2013 is Meg Whitman throwing a bone to HP employees, shareholders, the tech press and whatever webOS fanboys there might be.

As has been stated before: There isn't a "tablet market" - there's a market for iPads. There is also a market for "not-made-by-Apple iPads" - the "Great White Hope" of the mobile computing world. As we all know, there is a sizable group of people with a psychological hatred of Apple, and they'll gladly seize upon any opportunity to buy the first half-way decent "non-Apple" tablet.

But catering to that market is a fundamentally losing strategy. Its a negative one, and such strategies never work.

What's a "negative" strategy? It's an essentially reactive way of product design and marketing. The iPad doesn't support Flash and side-loaded applications? Great, we'll make a tablet that DOES run Flash, and lets you install whatever. You end up with a sluggish POS like the Xoom, and an App market thats a hideous wasteland. And while your engineers are busy trying to get Flash (an outdated video container from the 1990s) to run on your tablet, Apple is busy developing iCloud and Siri.
post #73 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew63 View Post

As has been stated before: There isn't a "tablet market" - there's a market for iPads. There is also a market for "not-made-by-Apple iPads" - the "Great White Hope" of the mobile computing world. As we all know, there is a sizable group of people with a psychological hatred of Apple, and they'll gladly seize upon any opportunity to buy the first half-way decent "non-Apple" tablet.

It seems to me that Apple is so way ahead with the iPad, as a versatile tablet, that the only possible strategy to compete with it is to propose limited purpose tablets (e.g. electronic book only). Any other attempt of frontal confrontation with Apple will fail. Apple is no longer the relatively small company it used to be , unable to mass produce & get economies of scale. They cumulate the advantage of having great products with the one of being capable of massive, cost effective production, not to mention their unique ecosystem.
post #74 of 82
Better late to the party than never? Possible, but not probable.

HP sounds like they are giving the Android platform time to turn into the abomination of what is now Windows Mobile with its implosion of an open source platform, pick up the baton, and compete with WebOS.

The outcome will likely be the same, as they are just moving the starting point back to square one, and Apple's iOS infrastructure will have grown to an insurmountable beast, especially with the tv plans on the horizon, and possible replacement to OSX on desk and laptops. Developers will be falling all over themselves to wash themselves in the iOS money stream, and will pay little attention to HP's Poindexter of an OS sitting in the corner.
post #75 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

As others have said in the past... there isn't really a tablet market, but there is an iPad market.

Steve had the vision to see what people would want and turned it into reality... the other manufacturers haven't a bloody clue what the market wants and end up with tablets that have no appeal to the mass market and/or copies of Apple's offerings but without the stuffing (plus, for the most part, they don't work that well).

Yes... I know it's weird to reply to your own post... but I had an addendum (and you all view me as brilliant so I know you'll be glad that I extended this comment).

I was just reading about Lenovo's latest Thinkpad tablet offering. They are pitching it to the "serious" enterprise customer. Why is it considered "serious". Well, according to Lenovo it's because it has all sorts of ports, sd card storage, a stylus pen, supports flash... etc. etc. etc.

Lenovo is trying the kitchen sink approach... but it will never sell in the millions, imho. Why? well, it doesn't have Office for one. Without the ability to run Office I think that the majority of customers would just view the Thinkpad tablet as a fatter, heavier iPad.

... but it does run flash.

Keep watching Lenovo, Meg. That should tell you everything you need to know.
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post #76 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

We do? I can't see the market supporting 4+ platforms in the long run.



Why? Apple is raking in the big bucks with only ab out 5% of the market. There's plenty of room for other companies to make similar boatloads of cash with under 25% of the market.
post #77 of 82
I would guess HP will be able to compete with the iPad 2 by 2013. The problem for them is that Apple will be ready to release iPad 4 which will still be far superior to HP's 2013 attempt. I would be so frustrated if I were HP. By all standards they have lost the "game" and have little hope of even competing anymore. Time for them to focus on a new project and surrender to Apple on this one.
post #78 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

In respect of HP, they simply missed the personal computer revolution.

If being the biggest personal computer manufacturer in the history of the world = missing the personal computer revolution, then you are correct, sir.
post #79 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Indeed. What is more disturbing is that this seems to be the trend among the large North American tech companies. Adobe, HP, Dell, AMD, Intel (yes), Microsoft, RIM, the list goes on and on.

What the hell happened?

Startup companies go through a lifecycle. The people who start the company eventually leave, taking a largely misunderstood and unappreciated skillset with them (the ability to innovate), and the resulting leadership has a different mindset and skillset, which works for a while, but over time, a company without its innovators becomes stale. I can see this pattern in Apple after Steve left, and Apple began to decline, mostly because the Mac got stale, and the marketing message got extremely muddled. Apple also had severe problem executing and focusing, which usually indicates poor leadership. If you're interested, there's a book called The Innovator's DNA which describes this pattern. The book is about the innovator's skills and how to build up those skills.

If the book is correct, then someone needs to fill the innovator's role at Apple so they can continue their rate of growth and industry disruption, and if that person isn't a leader, then Apple's leadership need to recognize and fast track those people so that they can start to make a real difference going into the next decade.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #80 of 82
Obviously tablets are not important.

HP is prepared to wait for Windows 8 and it does not appear to matter to Meg whether the WEB-OS tablet is released in 2012 or 2013.

I think she is just saying what we want to hear.

There was no talk of this yesterday when HP Opensourced WEB/OS. Today's statement is just a bet each way.

I don't believe it. HP would not be able to build acceptable hardware. They haven't done it for years. All the hardware design for consumer goods is outsourced.
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