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Apple accused of feeding intellectual property to patent troll - Page 3

post #81 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Apple should use every method that they can to crush it's enemies.

Are there any I have left off of the list?
post #82 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Hell...HTC devices look nothing like Apple devices...but hey...go get em.

Notice where I used the words "ideas and developments", not just design. There are implementations of Apple's patented designs in almost every Android phone. They might be as minor as the screen 'bounce' when you over scroll, but that is a patented idea and Apple has every legal right to aggressively defend their intellectual property.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Apple is almost always on the offensive...defense is not and cannot be a bully tactic.)

The legal system forces companies to aggressively defend their IP. The US patent office isn't going to do that for anyone. When Apple initiates a legal claim, that doesn't mean they are 'on offense', as you so wrongly put it, any more than someone who hires a defense attorney is 'playing bully' to defend himself in court. Protecting a companies properties is defensive by its very nature.

There are plenty of other examples of companies that aggressively defend their IP, but as they won't fit into your world view of "Apple=bad, not Apple=good", I won't bother to provide examples.
post #83 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cash907 View Post

Google, Motorola, and HTC all manufacture product, Digitude does not. They are a patent troll in every sense of the term, and Apple set them in motion.

Apple is akin to a gun runner, who supplies evil people with the means to further their evil.
post #84 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyTab View Post

HTC are have re-evaluated their purchase of S3, anyway, how are the two situations related?

HTC were going to purchase s3 and it's assets.
Apple have sold assets to a non existent company to try to stealthily pass patents to a patent troll.

As the TechCrunch article is titled "Apple Made A Deal With The Devil (No, Worse: A Patent Troll)".

Addition:
Look at what these assholes are up to:
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/patent-i...ews-13400.html



Which company is strangely absent from this list? I'm glad that Apple have been caught out in this spinelss act. Why didn't they keep their patents and directly go after all of these infringers?

Does it bug you that Google made a deal with Intelectual Ventures? This sounds like Apple seeing a cheap way of maintaining share holder value. By giving a few patents to a future headache they eliminate future issues.
post #85 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

The legality of some of the products that certain companies make is also in question, as they infringe upon other people's intellectual rights, so I don't think that makes them any better than a so-called patent troll.

According to the German Courts, Apple isn't any better than a so-called patent troll. According to the German Courts, Apple makes illegal products, as they infringe upon other people's intellectual rights.

How far Apple has fallen!
post #86 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleSteve View Post

I totally agreed! Who says Apple has to play nice when everyone else plays dirty. Who says Apple has to be "politically correct" all the time. It's time for Apple to behave like a Microsoft or a Google. Yeah, I say bring it on!


Apple, Microsoft and Google are all basically the same. They all play dirty. They all are politically incorrect.

Bring it on!
post #87 of 271
I dislike the idea of patent trolls, but after giving this some thought it may not be such a bad thing. Hear me out...

Firstly, patent "trolling" is not illegal, though one can argue it is somewhat unethical. Forgetting the ethical argument, consider that it is a reality.

Apple may be experimenting here. These patent trolls are good at one thing: getting value for patents. Apple also gets value from its patents by suing competitors. So maybe Apple is just looking to outsource these efforts? Somebody will get sued either way, why not leave the work to someone who's better at it than you are?

From that perspective it's no different than outsourcing manufacturing.

It will be interesting to see how this evolves. Perhaps we're witnessing the birth of a new industry.
post #88 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Are there any I have left off of the list?

If there is, I'm afraid that it would be unwise for me to reveal them to you, as I recognize that your list is only for pretend. You are merely trying to imitate a pro-Apple person here.
post #89 of 271
Gotta love these asshat comments that dont think Apple should be allowed to sell IP. They also can't buy IP because then it's not really their IP.

This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

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This bot has been removed from circulation due to a malfunctioning morality chip.

Reply
post #90 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Apple is akin to a gun runner, who supplies evil people with the means to further their evil.

I'm ok with that, because the people who the "evil people" are going after are even more evil.
post #91 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBR View Post

I think that what Apple is looking for is a per phone or pad/tablet in Amazon's case licensing fee like Microsoft is doing with Android rather than an injunction from shipping products like Apple probably wants with their lawsuits right now against Samsung, HTC and Motorola.

Apple is looking for the biggest profits it can possibly make, and will use any sleazy tactic they can to get it.
post #92 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Who else in the game right now can be considered a bully except Apple?

Motorola? Google? Samsung? HTC?
post #93 of 271
It may not feel right, but Solipsism has nailed the issue here. Taking the moral high ground in your personal life is admirable, but in business it is not just unwise, but often negligent. These companies answer to their shareholders, and have a responsibility to maximize their profits, short and long term.

Whether that takes the form of exploiting the patent system (that they did not invent or define) or trying to get away with copying others' successes without losing the ensuing lawsuits, we should expect them to base their decisions on business advantage, and nothing else. And those decisions should include, of course, if they are smart, trying to factor in the possible unintended consequences of their actions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Your use of "no better" is pointless. Stop trying to make the business world into some Milton-esque fight for good and evil. There is no altruism. This is a strategic game made for creating profit. It's really not that hard of a concept.
post #94 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

According to the German Courts, Apple isn't any better than a so-called patent troll. According to the German Courts, Apple makes illegal products, as they infringe upon other people's intellectual rights.

How far Apple has fallen!

If you're referring to the case which I think that you are, then that's just a small technicality with a FRAND patent. It's no big deal and won't hurt Apple in any way. Germans will still be buying plenty of iPads and iPhones for Christmas.
post #95 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Apple is looking for the biggest profits it can possibly make, and will use any sleazy tactic they can to get it.

I am a big fan of sleazy tactics, especially when dealing with sleazy opponents. Anything goes, as long as it's legal.
post #96 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by tikiman View Post

It seems these days EVERY company is a bit of a patent troll. I wish they'd stop suing each other and just focus their energies in more productive ways.

Are you saying that maybe Apple should spend a little less time feeding the Trolls, and a little more time, y'know, like actually innovating?
post #97 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Are you saying that maybe Apple should spend a little less time feeding the Trolls, and a little more time, y'know, actually competing?

Speaking of feeding trolls.

Yeah, maybe Apple should quit ripping off designs from their competitors and start innovating and come up with something new for a change. They've been quite lacking in that area, don't you think?

Apple is waiting for Samsung to release their next tablet, and then Apple is going to copy it and release the iPad 3.
post #98 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I see what you mean.

My comment was more targeted towards certain companies that intentionally release something that is a blatant ripoff of another product. I don't think that those companies are any better than the patent trolls.

In that case, do you agree with the German court that Apple is no better than a patent troll?
post #99 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

In that case, do you agree with the German court that Apple is no better than a patent troll?

I don't know the exact details of the case that you are referring to, so I can't really comment on that.
post #100 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbsoluteDesignz View Post

Who? I recall several lawsuits from several companies reacting to Apple (who is hardly wrong in some cases) but I do not recall a consortium of Apple competitors ganging up on Apple.

One of the main Apple memes has always been "us against them". Apple has consistently reinforced that mindset with its advertising slogans, including "the rest of us".

Us against them.

Not only that, but because Apple has traditionally been, until recently, a struggling company with few buyers, Apple fans could think of themselves as the underdogs, struggling, fighting the good fight, etc.

It is very hard for the people who grew up on the prior fiction to now accept that Apple is one of them. Apple is a huge multinational corporation that practices every sleazy move that big corporations proactice. They ain't your daddy's Apple, but the religious faithful try to pretend that they are still the scrappy little company fighting for what is good and right against a sea of conformity to corporate gods.

Apple is now their corporate God, but they can't quite reconcile that with their outmoded viewpoint that Apple stands for everything good and right and tasteful.

Sad. Very sad.

It ain't Steve and Woz bringing Apple goodness to us so we won't have to be conformists. It is suits and bean counters, and especially, lately, lawyers who define what Apple is. Apple is a huge conglomerate interested in only one thing: Money. And they don't give two shits what kind of sleazy tactics they might use to get it.
post #101 of 271
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Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post

Motorola? Google? Samsung? HTC?

How so?
post #102 of 271
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Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

If true, then this is great news!

How can anybody whine about this? Why do these people insist that Apple brings a knife to a gun fight?

How is this any different than Google buying Motorola and then giving some patents to HTC, which they then use to sue Apple with?

Google gives HTC patents so it can sue Apple

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...sue-Apple.html

As long as it's legal, then I say good for Apple! Apple should use every method that they can to crush it's enemies. Apple should make friends with every patent troll in the world and then band together to sue the hell out of everybody, while Apple is protected.

I completely agree, its not the same when the shoe is on the other foot eh? lol. If google and HTC can do it to beat up apple then all is fair in war, and make no mistake this is a war. Google is no boy scout and neither is Apple. Sometimes you have to get down in the trenches and fight fire with fire, because after all in this sort of dispute winning is what really matters.
Having said that, we really dont know why apple gave those patents to the patent company that is mentioned in this article, as the article states it could have been to settle with them.
Oh and also have to add Drummond is a whiney Crybaby, and an embarressment to Google. He has room to talk lol about fair competition .......What a wind bag.
post #103 of 271
\\
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Is the message in my sig really that unclear? I'd love to change it but I'm taking a stand against other posters with excessively large sigs. I can't exactly make my point with a small sig, now can I. It's exactly the same number of lines as ConradJoe's heavily spaced sig.

The difference is that I space my signature to make it look better, while you space yours to make it look worse.

It is the tactic if a 5 year old who gets all pissed off if his younger brother is wearing a funny hat.
post #104 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtdunham View Post

I know I'm not responsible for what other apple fanboys think or say, but these are the sort of comments I find embarrassing.

Don't worry about the OP's statements. He is a paid shill trying to make fanboys look bad.
post #105 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Ferrari View Post

Notice where I used the words "ideas and developments", not just design. There are implementations of Apple's patented designs in almost every Android phone. They might be as minor as the screen 'bounce' when you over scroll, but that is a patented idea and Apple has every legal right to aggressively defend their intellectual property.



The legal system forces companies to aggressively defend their IP. The US patent office isn't going to do that for anyone. When Apple initiates a legal claim, that doesn't mean they are 'on offense', as you so wrongly put it, any more than someone who hires a defense attorney is 'playing bully' to defend himself in court. Protecting a companies properties is defensive by its very nature.

There are plenty of other examples of companies that aggressively defend their IP, but as they won't fit into your world view of "Apple=bad, not Apple=good", I won't bother to provide examples.

The fact that you assume to know my worldview shows that you probably cannot be reasoned with.

The fact that you are supporting ANY company's move that feeds a patent troll is pathetic.

Apple may not be stifling innovation but patent trolls are damn near as a mission statement.
post #106 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

If that sounds like a sense of morality, it is.

There is no room for people like you at companies like Apple.
post #107 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

According to a new report,

Seems rather vague. Who's report? \
post #108 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

There is no room for people like you at companies like Apple.

Actually, there is no room for either of you at Apple.

And I'm just curious, since you made a slanderous lie in your previous post.

Who exactly would be paying me?

Apple? Apple's competitors? Hmmmmm

I'm curious to hear your genius explanation as to who exactly would possibly pay a poster like me to post here.
post #109 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyTab View Post

Potentially earning the ire of RIM, LG, Sony, Samsung, Nokia, Motorola, HTC, and Amazon? Very smart.


I don't really know. Have you asked Google or Samsung themselves?


It sounds like this whole thing means a lot to you personally. Perusing the eradication of any group (be they social, racial, religious or other) sounds unhealthy & you seem to be engaged in some fictitious war.

Probably best if I ignore you from now in as I doubt you can have any kind of sound discussion with that kind of fanaticism.

With you on that. If this is accurate, it's in poor taste. Apple can no longer claim any kind of moral high ground in anything.
post #110 of 271
I mean why are everyone so surprised. Apple is a huge company, this is what companies do, without they wouldn't be able to survive.
Apple had me at scrolling
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Apple had me at scrolling
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post #111 of 271
This thread just keeps getting funnier and funnier.

Pass the popcorn... please...
Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
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post #112 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

'Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war, That this foul deed shall smell above the earth.'
- "Julius Caesar," William Shakespeare, Act 3, Scene 1

Apple is just using someone else's dogs.

Ah, you're only impressed by Shakespeare because people don't talk that way any more. Today's English is more like, "hey dummy, gimme the remote. I wanna watch WWE."

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #113 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 View Post

With you on that. If this is accurate, it's in poor taste. Apple can no longer claim any kind of moral high ground in anything.

Yes, but who can?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #114 of 271
Disclaimer: I am by no means an expert on patent law or patents in general nor do I pretend to be. I could if I wanted to as thats the beauty of the Internet: if you can type coherent sentences you can be an expert on anything. Many people here I think pretend they know something, though I can tell a few here actually seem to have some real knowledge of the workings of patents/patent law. Either that, or they are very talented at pretending.

Anyway.

Why do we even need patents? Maybe that sounds like a very childish and simplistic question, but things have become so overblown in the last decade that I think we really need to rethink some of these concepts. Yes, patents were originally meant to safeguard innovations and ideas, but when the innovations are so incredibly vague in description that the patents themselves could easily describe a toaster with an LED/LCD display let alone a smartphone how can we really justify the existence of patents now when all they are good for is suing everyone into the ground? They're weapons of a vague and nondescript war that nobody can really win.

All the players in this cell phone patent war seem to have thousands of patents pertaining to cell phone technology. How can that even be? How can there be literally thousands of patents describing how a cell phone works and that each company has just as many patents describing similar things as the next? How is that safeguarding any innovation? It seems like we're safeguarding slightly differently worded innovations that might actually be the same things. Nokia blasts Apple for 3G technology used in iPhone...now Motorola is doing the same? Why aren't Nokia and Motorola blasting each other to bits too while we're at it? Who knows maybe they are. On top of that, HTC tries to acquire S3 to blast Apple for graphics patents that apparently S3 didn't even own! Its almost like we need reforms and regulations to bring all of this back down to earth. If we really do need patents (and I actually believe we do), then I think we need to regulate how patents are described and how they will be used. Will they be used? Will they sit collecting dust till the technology is invented?

Lets go from: To build a handheld device that allows people to communicate great distances through use of cell towers and...oh yeah has a touchscreen, bluetooth, 3G/4G radio, WiFi, a camera, another camera, proximity sensor, physical buttons, software buttons, an operating system, software that runs on the operating system and makes a great piece of slightly burnt bread.

To: Cell phone that makes toast.

Maybe that's too simple but I have a feeling everyone and their mother's brother's mail man has a patent pertaining to the construction of a cell phone and technologies used therein. I think we need to be more specific in nature so that this patent overlap (that I'm assuming exists) doesn't completely destroy innovation as it seems to be doing.

Just my (admittedly) uninformed and ignorant 2 cents.

On a slight aside: It seems like there's rarely anything to report about high technology anymore. The paradigm shift is now towards reporting about vague descriptions of technologies that are registered with an office and used to completely destroy companies that didn't even realize there was a registered vague description on some tech they used. Other than that, it seems like everything else is about reporting on a report from some analyst who thinks they are an oracle reporting about the sales of current products and making predictions about upcoming products. Often these people are like those in the disclaimer who pretend.

Samsung Galaxy series: Faster on a benchmark, not in your hand.

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Samsung Galaxy series: Faster on a benchmark, not in your hand.

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post #115 of 271
This is brilliant!

You just put patent trolls fighting other patent trolls... what a show...
post #116 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post


I'm curious to hear your genius explanation as to who exactly would possibly pay a poster like me to post here.

Anybody who stands to profit by making Apple fans look bad.
post #117 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Anybody who stands to profit by making Apple fans look bad.

Aha, so maybe Google is paying me to post here, or maybe Samsung. I see now.

But in that case, we're on the same side, aren't we? So why do all of the Fandroids get upset whenever I make my comments? Hmmmm.

The next time that I happen to say something bad about Android or when I happen to bash Fandroids, I will expect no complaints from any Fandroids at all, and I will actually demand their respect while I am bashing them, since I am doing it all for them after all and I am working for their master. Fandroids should be thanking me.
post #118 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

They wait for something to inadvertently use their patents (cross their bridge) and then they charge them for it. Sure, it's a pejorative term but it does fit the practice. Is there a better term to use that is as descriptive without sounding negative?

Smart business people?

What you're calling 'patent trolling' is legal and fully consistent with U.S. law and practice (probably in other countries, as well, although I'm not too familiar with patent law outside the U.S. and, somewhat, in Europe).

It's no different than someone who uses advertising or other promotions to build a demand for their products. Are they 'business trolls'?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Is the message in my sig really that unclear? I'd love to change it but I'm taking a stand against other posters with excessively large sigs. I can't exactly make my point with a small sig, now can I. It's exactly the same number of lines as ConradJoe's heavily spaced sig.

I'm taking a stand against murderers. I think I'll go shoot a few people.

And I'm taking a stand against shoplifting. I think I'll head down to Walmart and fill my pockets.

I'm also taking a stand against speeding. I'm going to drive 100 mph down the Interstate.

See how foolish your idea sounds?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post

Apple is akin to a gun runner, who supplies evil people with the means to further their evil.

That is, of course, ridiculous. In what way is Apple encouraging people to break the law or to be evil?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carmelapple View Post

Disclaimer: I am by no means an expert on patent law or patents in general nor do I pretend to be. I could if I wanted to as thats the beauty of the Internet: if you can type coherent sentences you can be an expert on anything. Many people here I think pretend they know something, though I can tell a few here actually seem to have some real knowledge of the workings of patents/patent law. Either that, or they are very talented at pretending.

I have patents to my name and have managed R&D departments which earned dozens of other patents (which required me to be involved with the patent process). Is that sufficient?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carmelapple View Post

Why do we even need patents? Maybe that sounds like a very childish and simplistic question, but things have become so overblown in the last decade that I think we really need to rethink some of these concepts. Yes, patents were originally meant to safeguard innovations and ideas, but when the innovations are so incredibly vague in description that the patents themselves could easily describe a toaster with an LED/LCD display let alone a smartphone how can we really justify the existence of patents now when all they are good for is suing everyone into the ground? They're weapons of a vague and nondescript war that nobody can really win.

You're arguing two different things. Do patents get awarded that shouldn't be? Sure. And it's perfectly reasonable to argue that the standards should be stricter or that the patent examiners should have better training (although you'd better be prepared to pay more to keep USPTO open if they have to hire more and better examiners).

But to jump from there to "we don't need patents" is absurd. Patents protect inventors. If a company couldn't protect its intellectual property, why invest in R&D? The winner would simply be the company who can copy things fastest. There would no longer be any advantage to innovation - which would be bad for consumers and the economy as a whole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by carmelapple View Post

Just my (admittedly) uninformed and ignorant 2 cents..

Glad you said that - you saved me the trouble.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
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post #119 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple rival Google has been vociferous in its complaints about the current patent system. In August, David Drummond, the company's chief legal officer accused Apple and Microsoft of "banding together" to use patents to attack its Android operating system.

"Patents were meant to encourage innovation, but lately they are being used as a weapon to stop it," Drummond wrote.

Kind of implies that Android has any innovations to be stifled. I've yet to see any at all on my HTC, it's just a poor iOS clone.
My Android phone is the worst phone I've ever owned.
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My Android phone is the worst phone I've ever owned.
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post #120 of 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

S
I'm taking a stand against murderers. I think I'll go shoot a few people.

And I'm taking a stand against shoplifting. I think I'll head down to Walmart and fill my pockets.

I'm also taking a stand against speeding. I'm going to drive 100 mph down the Interstate.

See how foolish your idea sounds?


You're kidding, right?

Oh boy... what can I say.

I can only hope you're kidding.

I'm speechless... and that occurs a lot less often than a blue moon...
Hmmmmmm...
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Hmmmmmm...
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