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Amazon readying Kindle Fire update to address criticisms - Page 2

post #41 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

I like how this update makes no mention of fixing the problem where your kids can easily click and buy damn near anything b/c there are no parental controls. If you keep logged out, you can't make use of Prime streaming, which is one of the primary draws for many families.

Yep. I noticed that as well. The whole lack of even asking for the password to buy something is a very damning issue that Amazon hasn't addressed and it really should be perhaps the first thing on the list.

And if you log out you lose Prime AND many of the downloaded apps, books etc because they need that log in to valid they are legit copies.

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #42 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Was that a deliberate reference to Apple stuff or did you not even realize it?

The difference is that with Apple stuff, overtaxed, downed servers are a sign of great success, proving the popularity of Apple products.
post #43 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

As for being in the hands for Christmas, there is some truth to that depending on the circumstance but it's not the guarantee win that people make it out to be. What's the dominate tablet on the market? The iPad, of course. When was announced and demoed? Late January, 2010. When was it first sold? The WiFI version in early April, and then the WiFi+3G in late April. Now imagine if Apple decided to release it the previous November simply to make the Christmas rush and users had to wait a half a year for the SW (or worse, v2, for the HW to be right). I think it would have been a flop.

It's Apple of course it wouldn't have been a flop. Remember all those isheep that live on the iKoolAid etc.

iOS 3 was functional on the iPad. Not great sure but functional. And way better than Silk has been. Plus it had the very Parental Controls and password input that folks are screaming about now. In fact many folks were complaining about who iOS asks for the password 'too much' but when asked they would rather too much than too little or once then never again.

Apple released when they did due to a combo of factors like FCC approval, availability of parts and spreading their sales into what is typically a dead quarter. Something they repeated last year and likely will again this year (although perhaps toward the end of that quarter).

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

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post #44 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'll make you a wager. How about a $25 gift card to an Apple Store. But how do we determine if it will flop or if it will be a success. A new model within a year? info about sales (something they typically don't do)? A new Kindle Fire size next year?


PS:Whatever happened to Pixel QI? That was suppose to be the great saviour for allowing longterm reading on eInk and outdoors, and allowing video playback with color as needed. I assume Amazon looked into it. I wonder what the problem was with that technology.

lol!

I'll go with what Spam said... bragging rights.

We won't know if it's selling well for a while yet... till then Amazon will say that sales are smooth.
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post #45 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandyf View Post

. But with more than 10K of Free movies & TV shows for AMZ prime members, the Fire is a win for our family. And I suspect, their 2nd gen version will only get better.

By "free" I assume you mean "for $79/ year as Amazon Prime subscribers", correct?
post #46 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandyf View Post

Been using the Fire for about 2 weeks (prepping it for my wife). Mostly using it for the wonderful selection of FREE movies & TV (classic, camp & comedy for me). The on/off button issue is not an issue; external volume adjustment would be convenient but my Garmin GPS operates similarly. The wife will also enjoy reading magazines and books. The size factor is easy to carry around in a purse or jacket.

And the upcoming software tweaks will be welcome but even here, it's not a deal breaker. If Apple launches a 7 or 8" iPod, that would be interesting. But with more than 10K of Free movies & TV shows for AMZ prime members, the Fire is a win for our family. And I suspect, their 2nd gen version will only get better.

yeah it is wishful thinking to say it has failed... I have set up 4 so far (3 to use and one under the tree) for family - they use them to read books on the go (much better over iPad) and watch movies it does both those things well and fits in their bags.

At 200 this thing will sell. I have a galaxy Tab 7 from verizon for my subway ride - if not, I would have gotten one also.
post #47 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'm wagering it will have momentum to push it through the year. I'm sure there will be some slow down as the next iPad hits shelves but I don't see them as being real competitors due to their wide price points and capabilities.

Look at the first Kindle. It wasn't a great product and it cost $400 yet sold out in hours. It was US only and they were able to ride that device for a year-and-hald before the Kindle 2 came on the market. Jump to the Kindle Touch which is a great eReader, so even with these rushed-to-market products I think Amazon has a chance to make the Fire a popular device, and eventually a profitable device.

If Amazon's sales are indicative of an eventual economics of scale that could make each unit at least break even then I think we'll be hearing about a major update in January, and within 2012 a larger tablet that's even more full featured.


PS: Does Amazon have a proper SDK built for the Fire or are only letting select devs make 3rd-party apps at this time?

Fire uses the same sdk as android google sdk. Dev has to just submit their apps to amazon. You can now root the fire to get the apps fron android market.
post #48 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

It's Apple of course it wouldn't have been a flop. Remember all those isheep that live on the iKoolAid etc.

iOS 3 was functional on the iPad. Not great sure but functional. And way better than Silk has been.

Releasing the iPad with iOS 3.x for such a long time when iOS 4.x was released for all other devices was atypical for Apple, but my biggest issue was the buffer issue with Safari reloading pages even when switching between Safari pages. That was unacceptable and annoying to the point that I returned my first iPad. That said, the got the main UX down. The feel of the device felt natural. It wasn't janky. That is the complete opposite of the Fire at this time.

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post #49 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

I remember a lot of people having a lot of complaints about the initial iPad, but as I recall there was a minor software update or two soon after launch that fixed some things, and then when ios 4 came to the device, everyone really started singing its praises.

Give Amazon 9 more months and see where this thing stands, these sisues will be in teh rear view mirror and the fire OS and system software will have been tuned optimized and debugged to a greater extent.

The initial launch wasnt perfect software wise, but it is more important for Amazon to have it in peoples hands at Christmas than to have perfect software at launch, and if the software update is availible by Christmas, no worries, all the new users will get teh new software when they fire the devices up so problem solved.

Some actor playing the roll of hippie who started some little fruit stand in Cupertino Ca once said "Great artists ship!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandyf View Post

Been using the Fire for about 2 weeks (prepping it for my wife). Mostly using it for the wonderful selection of FREE movies & TV (classic, camp & comedy for me). The on/off button issue is not an issue; external volume adjustment would be convenient but my Garmin GPS operates similarly. The wife will also enjoy reading magazines and books. The size factor is easy to carry around in a purse or jacket.

And the upcoming software tweaks will be welcome but even here, it's not a deal breaker. If Apple launches a 7 or 8" iPod, that would be interesting. But with more than 10K of Free movies & TV shows for AMZ prime members, the Fire is a win for our family. And I suspect, their 2nd gen version will only get better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by agramonte View Post

yeah it is wishful thinking to say it has failed... I have set up 4 so far (3 to use and one under the tree) for family - they use them to read books on the go (much better over iPad) and watch movies it does both those things well and fits in their bags.

At 200 this thing will sell. I have a galaxy Tab 7 from verizon for my subway ride - if not, I would have gotten one also.

This ...thing brings us back to the old fashion mail order catalogue with an electronic user interface that links up instantaneously with a dispatching warehouse/service provider, an account quick invoiced/charged-over mechanism ...a patented and patently acclaimed whim-impulse capturing process, and a massive consumer data hoarding mechanism.

And Amazon gets away with charging 200$ for it, ...while having pundits cheering how little one has to pay nowadays to get one's consuming fate chained onto the catalogue of a monetizer of system-wide value erosion, ...of 'anything purchased ought to be priced as a minimum-value commodity'.

Come to think of it, it reminds me of the down payment one may wish to lay upon one's own death ground-laying procurement. It sort of seals the deal of a covert death wish with the discounted rot of fair-trade and enlightened-consumption decay.
post #50 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics View Post

Imagine that. You don't get $500 worth of goodness in a small, $200 machine that takes 15 hardware shortcuts using software written by a company who's never manufactured anything other than an e-reader - compared to a tablet made by a company with a slew of elegant iDevices designed for quality and best possible user experience under its belt.

Who coulda' saw this coming??

Seriously, these iPad killers are going down one after another faster than each next rising then falling Republican presidential great hope!

[PS: I'm not being pro- or anti-Republican here, but that is what's been happening both to all the "great (insert OS or 'OS fork' here) hope tablets" and those folks, LoLz...]

PPS: This doesn't mean word will get out in time to stop Amazon from selling a slew of these to the unwary and budget-minded - and likely getting a better 2nd Gen machine out there. Amazon is a marketing machine - and the Fire does work after a fashion - with most people having nothing to compare it to.

I don't recall the Fire ever being sold as an iPad killer. Why are people making the device out to be more than it is marketed to be?
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post #51 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

Amazon an their whole Kindle is a joke to me.
My girlfriend got the low end monchrome kindle( what a piece of junk) from them clowns over at Best Brick, I mean Best Buy. Set up was a pain, and buying a book doesn't allow the user to be prompted with a second tier option that allows them to reconsider buying the product. You press pay and ch ching it goes. I hate that. To buy something I want to enter a code damnit!
And when the kindle is off the tablet displays advertising. What a joke!!
And it should be apparent that Amazon doesn't make those kindles. They buy them from an OEM
in China or Korea.
What's funny is that iBooks on iPod touch, iPhone or any Mac is a vastly superior experience than any of those kindles.

I don't want to be supporting eInk readers here but what you have to say is really ignorant of what these readers are.

Setup pain? What setup, you can copy books to your device the moment it is plugged in. Or get them from a library. The process is quite simple.

You don't have to buy books from Amazon. But if you do, then you can read them on your Kindle, iPad and iPod/iPhone. And the Kindle app remembers where you read as you switch between devices, pretty cool!

Kindles show advertizing only if you buy it at at the ad-subsidized price. Pay a bit more and you don't see ads.

I love my iPad but when I pop out for lunch, I bring my kindle. It fits nicely in a jacket pocket and light-weight. The iPad, not so much.

And it is nice to be able to read inside and out. Hopefully Apple will find a way in a future iPad to see the screen in bright light, but at this time this is a big limitation.

So, it is unfortunate that your girlfriend had a bad experience with her Kindle. Perhaps an iPad is a better choice for her needs. But for people that want a light-weight and convenient device to read books, the eInk devices (Kindle, etc) are a much better option.
No, Steve, I think its more like we both have a rich neighbor named Xerox, and you broke in to steal the TV set, and you found out I'd been there first...
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No, Steve, I think its more like we both have a rich neighbor named Xerox, and you broke in to steal the TV set, and you found out I'd been there first...
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post #52 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkimak View Post

I don't recall the Fire ever being sold as an iPad killer. Why are people making the device out to be more than it is marketed to be?

B/c Amazon is positioning it as a competitor to the iPad in their advertisements and if people equate the 2 as equal, those same people will assume the $200 product will slaughter the $500 one. They aren't even close to equal, but that is what marketing can do for you. It won't help w/all the returns of course
post #53 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

I like how this update makes no mention of fixing the problem where your kids can easily click and buy damn near anything b/c there are no parental controls. If you keep logged out, you can't make use of Prime streaming, which is one of the primary draws for many families.

There is a current workaround. You stay logged in, but deauthorize your CC. You can reauthorize it when you need to use it.

This whole thing is a stupid oversight on Amazon's part.
post #54 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkimak View Post

I don't recall the Fire ever being sold as an iPad killer. Why are people making the device out to be more than it is marketed to be?

Have a look on the Fire home page.

http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Fire-Am.../dp/B0051VVOB2

You'll see a reference to the iPad or Apple at least 5 times.

"Vibrant color touchscreen with extra-wide viewing angle - same as an iPad"

"The Fire gives me the features I want at a price point that's less than half of the iPad 2."

"Amazon’s Kindle Fire is likely to be the first successful tablet not sold by Apple, and there
are several good reasons for it"

etc.etc.

If that aint marketing aimed directly at the iPad (ie. iPad killer) then I'll eat my iMac puck mouse.
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post #55 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Have a look on the Fire home page.

http://www.amazon.com/Kindle-Fire-Am.../dp/B0051VVOB2

You'll see a reference to the iPad or Apple at least 5 times.

"Vibrant color touchscreen with extra-wide viewing angle - same as an iPad"

"The Fire gives me the features I want at a price point that's less than half of the iPad 2."

"Amazons Kindle Fire is likely to be the first successful tablet not sold by Apple, and there
are several good reasons for it"

etc.etc.

If that aint marketing aimed directly at the iPad (ie. iPad killer) then I'll eat my iMac puck mouse.

Your argument is sound. Amazon is clearly trying to market this as a low-cost alternative to the iPad that makes the iPad appear overpriced. This is a good move with the long standing stigma that Apple products are expensive and thr you are just paying for a logo.

As for dkimak comment Amazon would never called it an "iPad killer" at not publically. That's something analysts, consumers and personally within Amazon might do, but never an exec or marketer in any official capacity without causing a lot of problems for themselves.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #56 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

I remember a lot of people having a lot of complaints about the initial iPad, but as I recall there was a minor software update or two soon after launch that fixed some things, and then when ios 4 came to the device, everyone really started singing its praises.

Give Amazon 9 more months and see where this thing stands, these sisues will be in teh rear view mirror and the fire OS and system software will have been tuned optimized and debugged to a greater extent.

The initial launch wasnt perfect software wise, but it is more important for Amazon to have it in peoples hands at Christmas than to have perfect software at launch, and if the software update is availible by Christmas, no worries, all the new users will get teh new software when they fire the devices up so problem solved.

Some actor playing the roll of hippie who started some little fruit stand in Cupertino Ca once said "Great artists ship!"


I don't remember any complaints about the iPad after launch other than reviewers saying it will be a flop because of there not being a market for it. The iPad was one of Apple's best launches ever. Very few problems.

People can go into any Target and play with the Kindle Fire, the Kindle Touch, and various other tablets like the new Nooks. In my honest opinion, the Fire is the worst tablet out there. Some things it will never be able to fix in this current iteration. Currently, the GUI is poor, it runs sluggish, and it lacks features that it will never have because of a lack of cameras, microphone, and other sensors. Moreover, do not loss one because anybody can buy crap on it using your account information.
post #57 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBell View Post

I don't remember any complaints about the iPad after launch other than reviewers saying it will be a flop because of there not being a market for it. The iPad was one of Apple's best launches ever. Very few problems.

The main complaints about the iPad at launch were the various features that were not in the first version (cameras, etc) and people saying there was no market for it to target.
post #58 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by runner7775 View Post

I've never figured out all the complaining about the Kindle Fire. In the admittedly short time that I used the Fire, everything was smooth and it performed well. It's probably the best Android tablet on the market, even if it is using a proprietary interface.

Proprietary interface as opposed to what? It's a Kindle built on top of Android. If it lacked a proprietary interface, it would be just an Android tablet running the Kindle App.

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post #59 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

The main complaints about the iPad at launch were the various features that were not in the first version (cameras, etc) and people saying there was no market for it to target.

No market for it? Don't think that was a valid complaint; I distinctly remember the iPad 1 selling very well.

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post #60 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

No market for it? Don't think that was a valid complaint; I distinctly remember the iPad 1 selling very well.

That was the complaint. I knew the iPad would be a roaring success but I couldn't see how it would fit into my computing life since I use a 13" MBP and an iPhone. That leaves a small window of usage. I think most analysts and a lot of users just couldn't see how it could be a success if they couldn't find an initial need for it.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #61 of 82
Gimme a break!

I know this is Apple Insider, but seriously?! The Apple-centric bias here is suffocating! You guys are worse than the Faux News Channel!

So it's not as good as an iPad. Big deal. It's a lot cheaper than an iPad, and it's plenty good for a large number of users. As an Amazon Prime member and as a "normal" person (i.e., not an Apple fanboy), the Fire makes a lot of sense to me.

My wife and I each have an iPhone 4, we have two iPods (including an old iPod touch), and we have a Mac mini. (Although our primary machines are Windows desktops and notebooks.) I like Apple products. I've coveted an iPad for several years. But they're just too expensive, they're not sufficiently more useful than my iPhone, and I've never purchased any audio or video from iTunes and have no desire to start. The Fire has its problems, as to be expected of a 1.0 device, but the pluses far outweigh the minuses for me. Evidently for a lot of other people, too.

It is The best-selling product on Amazon. In what universe does that make it a "failure"? I don't see an iPad in the top 100 of electronics. (However, there are a few iPod touches and the Apple TV in the top 10.) Is the Chevy Cruze a "failure" because it isn't a BMW? I don't see any BMWs on Forbes's list of the top-selling vehicles of 2011, but the Cruze is #9.

Like it or not, expect the Fire to be around for the long haul and attract significantly more purchasers than the iPad.

But who cares?! You have your iPad, and you like it. Good for you. Why do all you fanboys have this intrinsic need to look down your noses at anything without an Apple logo stamped on it? Seriously, you're like those morons in the Samsung ads. (Excellent ads, by the way!)

As it happens, I do drive a BMW. It matters to me not one whit that there are a lot more Cruze drivers out there.
post #62 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Aaargh....... z boyz are out in force....

Give up, guys. It's a POS. You get what you pay for.

Didn't you know: if you root a Volkswagen it turns into a Porsche!
That's their answer to everything: root root root.

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post #63 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWB View Post

Gimme a break!

I know this is Apple Insider, but seriously?! The Apple-centric bias here is suffocating! You guys are worse than the Faux News Channel!

So it's not as good as an iPad. Big deal. It's a lot cheaper than an iPad, and it's plenty good for a large number of users. As an Amazon Prime member and as a "normal" person (i.e., not an Apple fanboy), the Fire makes a lot of sense to me.

My wife and I each have an iPhone 4, we have two iPods (including an old iPod touch), and we have a Mac mini. (Although our primary machines are Windows desktops and notebooks.) I like Apple products. I've coveted an iPad for several years. But they're just too expensive, they're not sufficiently more useful than my iPhone, and I've never purchased any audio or video from iTunes and have no desire to start. The Fire has its problems, as to be expected of a 1.0 device, but the pluses far outweigh the minuses for me. Evidently for a lot of other people, too.

It is The best-selling product on Amazon. In what universe does that make it a "failure"? I don't see an iPad in the top 100 of electronics. (However, there are a few iPod touches and the Apple TV in the top 10.) Is the Chevy Cruze a "failure" because it isn't a BMW? I don't see any BMWs on Forbes's list of the top-selling vehicles of 2011, but the Cruze is #9.

Like it or not, expect the Fire to be around for the long haul and attract significantly more purchasers than the iPad.

But who cares?! You have your iPad, and you like it. Good for you. Why do all you fanboys have this intrinsic need to look down your noses at anything without an Apple logo stamped on it? Seriously, you're like those morons in the Samsung ads. (Excellent ads, by the way!)

As it happens, I do drive a BMW. It matters to me not one whit that there are a lot more Cruze drivers out there.

I've heard this argument before... I like it, therefore it will do well.

The reason I don't think it will do well is because at some point Amazon has to start making money with this thing. Making more and more and more of them only digs Amazon deeper into a hole if people aren't purchasing content. A company can only lose money for so long on an item before they have to pull the plug. I'm not sure what sort of window Amazon has given the Fire but I'd imagine it isn't too long into the future. [I also believe that a lot of Fires will sit on the closet shelf after Christmas]

Having said that, I also question the strength of iPad sales in 2012. My guess is that the tablet market is getting fairly saturated and if new iPads don't do much more than an iPad 2 then I can't see people going out of their way to upgrade. Sooner or later, though, someone (my guess is Apple) will introduce a tablet that will more closely parallel a laptop (ie. MS will introduce Office for tablets, Adobe will introduce almost full fledged PS and AI apps.) and then I can see tablets taking a huge leap forward in numbers shipped.

We'll see.
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post #64 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I've heard this argument before... I like it, therefore it will do well.

Actually, my argument was not that it will do well, but that it already is doing well, unless you believe Amazon is fudging their sales ranks. I was mainly reacting to the overt and ridiculous Apple bias of the original article and many of the follow-up comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

at some point Amazon has to start making money with this thing.

They do, but unlike Apple (and the rest of the market, for that matter), they have no need to make money on the hardware, and if the regular Kindle is any indication, no desire to, either. (I believe the regular Kindle has always been sold at or below cost, but I could be wrong.) Amazon is in the business of making money on the content. It's the old "give away the razor, make money on the blades" model.

Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

We'll see.

Indeed.
post #65 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWB View Post

Actually, my argument was not that it will do well, but that it already is doing well, unless you believe Amazon is fudging their sales ranks. I was mainly reacting to the overt and ridiculous Apple bias of the original article and many of the follow-up comments.

We haven't even seen the quarterly results (from just one quarter no less) and you are ready to call this a success. So you're telling me that they are giving away the razor but without even knowing if people are buying the blades you are ready to call the promotion a success. I need a lot more evidence than that. ... and, yes, I truly think Amazon is fudging its sales.

Quote:
They do, but unlike Apple (and the rest of the market, for that matter), they have no need to make money on the hardware, and if the regular Kindle is any indication, no desire to, either. (I believe the regular Kindle has always been sold at or below cost, but I could be wrong.) Amazon is in the business of making money on the content. It's the old "give away the razor, make money on the blades" model.

... and I already covered that in my reply to your original comment.

Quote:
Indeed.

Yes... indeed.
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post #66 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWB View Post

Gimme a break!

I know this is Apple Insider, but seriously?! The Apple-centric bias here is suffocating! You guys are worse than the Faux News Channel!

So it's not as good as an iPad. Big deal. It's a lot cheaper than an iPad, and it's plenty good for a large number of users. As an Amazon Prime member and as a "normal" person (i.e., not an Apple fanboy), the Fire makes a lot of sense to me.

My wife and I each have an iPhone 4, we have two iPods (including an old iPod touch), and we have a Mac mini. (Although our primary machines are Windows desktops and notebooks.) I like Apple products. I've coveted an iPad for several years. But they're just too expensive, they're not sufficiently more useful than my iPhone, and I've never purchased any audio or video from iTunes and have no desire to start. The Fire has its problems, as to be expected of a 1.0 device, but the pluses far outweigh the minuses for me. Evidently for a lot of other people, too.

It is The best-selling product on Amazon. In what universe does that make it a "failure"? I don't see an iPad in the top 100 of electronics. (However, there are a few iPod touches and the Apple TV in the top 10.) Is the Chevy Cruze a "failure" because it isn't a BMW? I don't see any BMWs on Forbes's list of the top-selling vehicles of 2011, but the Cruze is #9.

Like it or not, expect the Fire to be around for the long haul and attract significantly more purchasers than the iPad.

But who cares?! You have your iPad, and you like it. Good for you. Why do all you fanboys have this intrinsic need to look down your noses at anything without an Apple logo stamped on it? Seriously, you're like those morons in the Samsung ads. (Excellent ads, by the way!)

First of all, I take issue with your suggestion that there's anything wrong with liking Apple, and seeing the world filtered accordingly. The Apple ownership experience has raised my standards about how consumer electronics should work, and everything else has to measure up to that. You obviously think there is something wrong with that. You compared Apple fans to the "morons" in the Samsung ad. That reminds me another post by someone else in a recent thread that also suggested that the people waiting in line at Apple's new Grand Central Store were iKoolAid drinking sheep or otherwise weird. Well, if that Samsung ad speaks to you, then you don't understand why people line up for new iPhones and iPads. Neither does Samsung. They aren't morons. They aren't "iSheep" either. They are people like my dad and my sister. Apple fans are normal people: there's no Apple fans as opposed to normal people as Microsoft fans have long pretended.

There are a few very active trolls who inhabit these forums posting day and night saying basically the same thing: you Apple fans are freaking morons because you don't think like me! You can't appreciate anything not made by Apple. Therefore, I am better than you. They cannot stand the idea that someone else doesn't think like them (and they don't respect them). The irony is: they accuse Apple fans of looking down on other people, but that's exactly what they are doing on these forums. If you can accept that someone doesn't think like you, whether you personally agree with them or not, welcome. If you've come here to put down "Apple fans" as sheep and weirdos, then this isn't the right place.

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #67 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

If you've come here to put down "Apple fans" as sheep and weirdos, then this isn't the right place.

Time to get my black t-shirt, white lettering... Apple logo on the back and "I'm a Weirdo" on the front.
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post #68 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

because that _NEVER_ happens with apple gear!

Only for iPhones. On launch day.

Not for browsing every web site. At Christmas when it's safe to assume there will be a spike in activity.

Should be fun to watch. I guess we'll see how elastic Amazon's servers really are!
post #69 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

I remember a lot of people having a lot of complaints about the initial iPad

Allot of people complaining about the iPad didn't own one, didn't understand it and were predicting failure from day one. Many of them are still complaining

iPad complaints and Kindle Fire complaints aren't even in the same league, and many of what was cited as complaints in this article will require a hardware refresh - not just a software update.
post #70 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by prenez View Post

Nonsense. It's a version 1.0, and it's useful for reading books and other media, which is what it's supposed to do.

Sure - but it's being touted as the second coming for tablets. Make up my mind - is it a "media tablet" or an iPad competitor? Because it's touted or one or the other - only when convenient, mind you

Quote:
I'd say that it's best as a good second machine for an iPad owner who doesn't want to lug the thing around and try to wield it just to read something

Huh? The Fire offers NOTHING over the iPad for just reading. I own a Kindle (actually, just upgraded to a DX) because the eInk screen brings something new to the table. But if I have an iPad (and I do) there is no reason I would want a Fire. None.

I could see the Fire for a non-iPad owner, but what the heck would a Kindle bring to the table other than the desire to throw it out the window and return to the iPad?

Quote:
Could it better? Sure. So could the iPad. And they both will be.

You called a thought other than this bone headed? Here's the difference - even if the iPad didn't get another update it would still be very functional as it is right now. So far the Kindle Fire is looking barely tolerable for simple media consumption, with a bunch of silly hardware issues (Really Amazon? What is it with power switches? People complaining about the idiotic placement on the original Kindle's wasn't enough?). Even if they can clean up some of the issues with the software, the underlying hardware is still half baked and more than likely will REQUIRE a hardware update. Whereas the iPad 2 was a refinement of the original iPad - not addressing basic flaws in the original product.

And perhaps your good with that - good for you and your sister. But stop pretending it's even remotely similar to the iPad and implying that they are both flawed and it's just a matter of time before the Fire bests the iPad. Talk about spin!
post #71 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandyf View Post

Been using the Fire for about 2 weeks (prepping it for my wife). Mostly using it for the wonderful selection of FREE movies & TV (classic, camp & comedy for me).

Point of order, the "FREE" movies and TV will only continue if you continue to pay for Prime.

I use Prime because it saves on the shipping so it would be "FREE" for me too - but if you weren't a Prime subscriber before, just be aware that after your free year is up, so will your "FREE" movies and TV shows.
post #72 of 82
Even for only $200 I expect that a product would still be able to function adequately - ie hitting button targets, adequate hardware functionality, safety/privacy settings implemented, smooth interface etc etc. For it's price point, it's hard for Amazon to fail with the Fire, but with these faults for me it is a fail. Just not good enough. John Siracusa and Marco Arment nailed it in their critiques of this device.
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post #73 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Proprietary interface as opposed to what? It's a Kindle built on top of Android. If it lacked a proprietary interface, it would be just an Android tablet running the Kindle App.

Er, no it wouldn't - it will never be "just an Android tablet". It's an Android fork. Android is a trademarked name reserved for manufacturers that play by Google's rules. While it might be using the core of what eventually makes Android, it's not "Android" that people think of when you say Android.

The UI, store and other parts are Amazon proprietary because they have to be. Because they choose to be so they didn't have to be beholden to Google (or plaster Google crap all over the place). I don't blame Amazon for that - it's brilliant actually. Leverage the work of Google while ensuring they see no benefit. At least Amazon is really liking "Open" I'll bet!

So while the Fire may be built on the foundations of Android, it is NOT Android - and that's why Amazon doesn't tout it as such either.
post #74 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkimak View Post

I don't want to be supporting eInk readers here

Why not? For reading on anything other than paper, nothing beats eInk today. I love my Kindle(s) - eInk versions, that is!

Quote:
but what you have to say is really ignorant of what these readers are.

Yup - as you point out, all his "objections" are pretty shallow.

My biggest complaint - there needs to be a way to organize content on the Kindle - folders, tags, groups - something. And I should be able to add/remote/organize items on my Kindle from my Amazon web account.

Quote:
But for people that want a light-weight and convenient device to read books, the eInk devices (Kindle, etc) are a much better option.

Meh - size and weight aren't even an issue for me. The real saving grace for the eInk Kindle is the display. I love it. I can read on a Kindle all day (and I literally have) without feeling fatigued. Not so on a computer screen or my iPad. The high contrast display is top notch for reading. I like it so much, I just got a used DX today. Synced it to my Amazon account and had a few books on it in less than a minute. I think i like the button placement on the DX even better than the 4th generation (or whatever the one right before the touchscreen) Kindle I also have.
post #75 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

This thing was hyped, intentionally or not, as an iPad killer. Cheaptards, err I mean price conscious consumers thought they were getting an iPad for a third of the price. Now they are finding out different and are complaining? I don't understand.

I don't get it either because the Kindle works fine. People must have it pretty good if the major problem in their life is a $199 e-reader/tablet not having all the features of a $500 tablet.
post #76 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo View Post

I don't get it either because the Kindle works fine. People must have it pretty good if the major problem in their life is a $199 e-reader/tablet not having all the features of a $500 tablet.

Don't forget people are also comparing its usability against the iPhone, iPod Touch, and even Android-based phones, all of which have a much better touch-interface and UX experience than the Fire t this point. It's all about thinking "I'm getting 40% the quality of an iPad".

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post #77 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

Even for only $200 I expect that a product would still be able to function adequately - ie hitting button targets, adequate hardware functionality, safety/privacy settings implemented, smooth interface etc etc. For it's price point, it's hard for Amazon to fail with the Fire, but with these faults for me it is a fail. Just not good enough. John Siracusa and Marco Arment nailed it in their critiques of this device.

I just don't see it. It's not hard to hit the buttons, they work, turning off one click is easy, you can you use other browsers with more privacy features. It's not perfect, but for a convenient entertainment device that I don't have to worry about losing, having stolen, and is small enough to pocket easily its a win. The last thing I want to do is drop $500+ on an iPad2 and see the iPad3 in a few months, which is the Kindles biggest win. Its so cheap its an easy buy for an e-reader with the bonus of being able to goof around with an Android tablet check out what the Android fans like so much about rooting and "open" systems and keep me generally entertained until next years new generation of tablets. Variety is good.
post #78 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post


I could see the Fire for a non-iPad owner, but what the heck would a Kindle bring to the table other than the desire to throw it out the window and return to the iPad?

It's smaller, I don't always want to carry an iPad with me. There's a lot more peace of mind traveling with a $200 gadget than a $500+ gadget. It's different, I like to use Windows, Mac OS X, Android, and iOS devices. Tech is fun, why limit yourself to one eco-system?
post #79 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo View Post

I just don't see it.

But so many others do, hence the complaints and negative reviews. And Joe Average isn't going to know the work-arounds.

Quote:
Variety is good.

Oh, I agree. But I expect a certain level of quality where basic functions actually work all the time, and easily.
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post #80 of 82
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The whole idea of a Kindle is lost.

The reader that works even better under the sun or bright lighting than it does in dim lighting and without hurting your eyes and with awesome battery life...that's what Kindle is all about.


What the heck is the Fire for? Is it for failing?

I got a Kindle Touch. I love it. Of course, the UI is written by a team that would get a D or F in any college intro-to-programing course:

It has dead-ends that force me to restart the thing to escape.
The latency when entering my 4-digit unlock code is one full second/stroke.
I love the text-to-speech feature. But it has no way to scrub back if you miss a few words.
It needs a 30-second rewind and it needs a way to turn back pages without exiting t-2-s and then paging back and then re-launching t-2-s. ALSO: does it take Steve Jobs resurrected to think of a feature like a sleep timer. If I had this, I could have the Kindle read me to sleep and then shut the hell up after, say, 30 minutes. How nice that would be! How many lines of code would it really take? But...noooooooo!!!!.... we don't get that. It would be way too "Apple".

Anyway, I think that if my folks bought me a Kindle Fire instead of an iPad, I would be truly upset.

Still, I think this Touch is what Kindle ought to be about, instead of a half-assed tablet that has all the flaws of back-lit displays and a lousy user experience from a loser UI.

The lighted, leather case from Amazon is awesome, but the cover flap is not secured: how about some tiny magnets at two corners so the cover will p-r-o-t-e-c-t the screen in the event of a drop? Huh? Why not? As it is, the flap will likely flip open to let the device fall on its face and break or scratch...a truly beautiful cover with that mandatory, dumb-ass flaw.

But...if you like to read, I highly recommend the Kindle Touch 3G; especially if they hire some paid, pro, code pounders to fix the UI experience and if they hire me to think of brilliant features like sleep timer, screen-savers that we can make ourselves with our chosen jpegs, without jail-breaking the poor thing into a bricked state; LOUDER SPEAKER !!!!; faster response; etc.
---gooddog

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