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There are no overlords, it is up to people to make their own way in this world

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
And does this mean that our Overlords in the top 1% will be happy? Please Overlords, start the trickle down economics that Reagan promised us, we have been waiting for over 20 years for it to start. That or go and buy another yacht, what ever your Harvard MBA adviser suggests would let you pay less taxes.
post #2 of 19
There are no overlords, it is up to people to make their own way in this world. Further if you are waiting for a handout instead of working you are a fool.

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Originally Posted by 801 View Post

And does this mean that our Overlords in the top 1% will be happy? Please Overlords, start the trickle down economics that Reagan promised us, we have been waiting for over 20 years for it to start.

For people that actually contribute to the economy Reagonomics wasn't that bad. The reality is Reagan is long gone and frankly has been replaced by a succession of stooges. Obama is frankly the biggest moron to occupy the white house in some time.
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That or go and buy another yacht, what ever your Harvard MBA adviser suggests would let you pay less taxes.

Paying reasonable taxes is something every decent American strives for be he rich or poor. By the way the boating industry use to employ thousands. The reality is every time this country gets a bug up it's ass about taxing the rich, taxing luxuries and the like, lots of working Americans loose their jobs.

One only has to look at what is happening around Apples success to realize that making money is a good thing. Their venture with Samsung is coming online in Austin, data centers are springing up right and left, talk of buying firms is rampant and in general employment is up world wide. Making money creates jobs as Apple clearly demonstrates. Taxing the rich does nothing but expand the welfare state.
post #3 of 19
I can make a good argument that Apple is over priced right now. You can disagree with that but really there is no need to get emotional about it.

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Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

If the share price is going to continue to fall, it won't matter
to shareholders how much revenue Apple is pulling in. I'm not blaming Apple for the situation, I'm only saying that bullish outlooks mean nothing if shareholders continue to see bearish results.

Let's be honest here Apple has never been a wall street darling.
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When it comes to Apple, Wall Street continues to look years into the future so that they can devalue the company despite current record earnings. You might say that Apple is being priced to fail which makes very little logical sense, but if the people running Wall Street are represented by John Corzine, then it's perfectly clear.

This non sense is becoming unbearable. There are many factors that impact a stocks price. Further nobody actually runs Wall Street. At least not in the way you imply.
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My case in point is that Apple is performing far better than the financial institutions that are claiming Apple's future growth potential is rather limited. What right have they got to decide such a thing when their own institutions are in financial shambles? I don't believe they are qualified to accurately predict Apple's future.

Then why concern yourself with them? More so like going to a doctor for cancer treatment do you take his and only his advice as the gospel?

I really don't understand this mentality with people these days. It is like they have no free will and actually believe their lives are controlled by some faceless enity. Worse they seem to accept having to submit to this imagined control.
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Guys like Zaky and Dediu enjoy playing with numbers and that's all they see. The people that are actually controlling the market are not true numbers people. They're probably just high rolling gamblers or maybe there's no risk at all because they actually control the market to suit themselves.

Stop! Please stop, we all need a break from this non sense.
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I'm not sure, but when a company's share price disconnects from fundamentals, then something is most definitely wrong. It wouldn't even make sense to build a successful company if that is the outcome.

Really? Have you ever stopped to consider that your evaluation of the situation is wrong?
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I've been Apple long since 2004 and I really shouldn't be griping since I've made money but it's getting annoying hearing these protests about the market cheating Apple shareholders because there probably won't be any changes made in the near future. Apple shareholders will just have to suck it up or look elsewhere for share gains.

I really think you you should just get out of the market entirely. Complaining about gains when it comes to Apple seems at best foolish. As to investments of course people look to the future and make educated guesses, you wouldn't be much of an investor if you didn't. Objectively one has to see considerable risk right now with Apple stock as a long term investment. It isn't so much that failure is a problem but rather where does future growth come from and how reliable will that growth be.

Ten years ago Apple was an excellent investment opportunity for capital growth over ten years. Now it is a different story, it will be much harder to double or triple your money over the next ten years, based on Apples current size and what is known about its current products. By the way that doesn't mean it is a bad investment just that you can't expect massive gains like we have seen in the past.
post #4 of 19
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Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

There are no overlords, it is up to people to make their own way in this world. Further if you are waiting for a handout instead of working you are a fool.


For people that actually contribute to the economy Reagonomics wasn't that bad. The reality is Reagan is long gone and frankly has been replaced by a succession of stooges. Obama is frankly the biggest moron to occupy the white house in some time.

Hey! Take it easy there!
post #5 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

There are no overlords, it is up to people to make their own way in this world. Further if you are waiting for a handout instead of working you are a fool.


For people that actually contribute to the economy Reagonomics wasn't that bad. The reality is Reagan is long gone and frankly has been replaced by a succession of stooges. Obama is frankly the biggest moron to occupy the white house in some time.


Paying reasonable taxes is something every decent American strives for be he rich or poor. By the way the boating industry use to employ thousands. The reality is every time this country gets a bug up it's ass about taxing the rich, taxing luxuries and the like, lots of working Americans loose their jobs.

One only has to look at what is happening around Apples success to realize that making money is a good thing. Their venture with Samsung is coming online in Austin, data centers are springing up right and left, talk of buying firms is rampant and in general employment is up world wide. Making money creates jobs as Apple clearly demonstrates. Taxing the rich does nothing but expand the welfare state.

This is the free market and Obama isn't your effing daddy! You want a job so bad cause you don't have one then go tell an perspective employer you'll work for 2 dollars an hour. Then agree to sign a waiver giving the employer complete immunity if anything happens to you on the job. In a nutshell, you are own your own. Get hurt and can't work? Get carted out the company through the back door.
And your argument about taxing the rich will kill jobs is BS!!!

Right know , are the rich(the top 1% hoarding 15 trillion in wealth) and the corporations(hoarding nearly 3 trillion in cash! Mostly off shore.) creating jobs? That is a combined wealth of 18 trillion!!!!!

And in closing, when is the last time the rich went on tv to tell the president that if they get taxed, they won't create jobs? LOL!!!!
Stop feasting on your delusional dogma.
post #6 of 19
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Originally Posted by DrDoppio View Post

I could argue against almost every point that you made with facts, but here is neither the time nor the place for political action. Reported.

The post really wasn't about politics which I suppose is a big problem as people confuse politics with personal responsibility and developing a reasonable grasp of the world. If you where to read for content you would have realized the post is an objection to this idea that ever aspect of people's lives are being controlled by outside influences. This is a recent phenomena, at least in its public magnitude.

It is especially bewildering in the context of a forum dedicated to Apple. Let's face it Steve made a success of Apple and himself against some incredible odds. If there really was a concerted effort to keep people "down", as seems to be the common wisdom, Apple and Steve wouldn't have been a success. Success comes from personal drive and vision, if you don't have those you really shouldn't be blaming Reagan who is now a part of history.

So you see the only politics here is the result of somebody placing blame for whatever shortcomings he has on somebody that is long passed.
post #7 of 19
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Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

This is the free market and Obama isn't your effing daddy! You want a job so bad cause you don't have one then go tell an perspective employer you'll work for 2 dollars an hour.

Never heard of the minimum wage have you?
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Then agree to sign a waiver giving the employer complete immunity if anything happens to you on the job. In a nutshell, you are own your own. Get hurt and can't work? Get carted out the company through the back door.

Apparently you aren't familiar with the disability laws either.
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And your argument about taxing the rich will kill jobs is BS!!!

It isn't BS, look at history as every time we go after the rich through luxury taxes people loose jobs.
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Right know , are the rich(the top 1% hoarding 15 trillion in wealth) and the corporations(hoarding nearly 3 trillion in cash! Mostly off shore.) creating jobs? That is a combined wealth of 18 trillion!!!!!

In a down economy this is the reasonable thing to do. Further when you have an idiot running the country it is the responsible thing to do.

Getting back on the Apple track here, Apple has huge sums of money off shore that it would like to bring back to the US. Honestly why would they do this if that would mean loosing a good portion of that money to the government. Every dollar that gets taxed can never be put to use productively by the company.
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And in closing, when is the last time the rich went on tv to tell the president that if they get taxed, they won't create jobs? LOL!!!!
Stop feasting on your delusional dogma.

Actually some have already been on record as basically saying that. Or that they are waiting for Obama to leave office.

In any event you still mis the point, getting or having a job is a personal responsibility that is separate from politics. The dogma you seem to support is the idea that the rich should be giving people jobs, that is BS. All those trillions in the bank mean nothing in the end if people don't take responsibility for themselves.
post #8 of 19
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Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Taxing the rich does nothing but expand the welfare state.

Yes indeed! Let the proletariat eat cake.
post #9 of 19
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Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Yes indeed! Let the proletariat eat cake.

No tax them, someone got to pay to keep society running!
post #10 of 19
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Originally Posted by RPT View Post

No tax them, someone got to pay to keep society running!

True. And the rich want a little cake, too. Jeez... is nothing fair?
post #11 of 19
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Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Wizard69, I can't really engage with your off-topic rant, but I notice that you spell "lose" -- as in lose your shirt -- with two "o"s -- as in "loose their jobs." And then elsewhere I have seen you spell "too" -- as in "too much" -- with one "o" -- you say "to much." Are you sure you are competent to judge who is the most moronic president we have ever had? At least our current one knows enough about language to say "nuclear."

Then again maybe the spell checker did twist loose.

In any event you seem to think I'm off topic here but I really don't see that. Stock prices are not set simply by cold hard calculations though that has an impact, there is also a mental component to the mix. Some like to see it as politics, others just have problems imagining continued growth based on what they know now.

The problem for Apple is this, if you are one of the largest companies in America, maybe the world how do you realistically become 2X or 4X that size? It isn't easy in the best of times. However you also have a rather negative political and economic climate that you can't divorce from the discussion if you are reasonable.

So when I see people complain about Apples stock price I really have to shake my head. A prudent investor has to be cautious about Apple simply because it's size puts it in a unique position. Add to that the political climate and excessive exposure to its supply chain in China and you have investors exercising reasonable caution. In any event you really can't have any discussion about Wall Street without politics, politics is as much a factor in the mental game as is imagining where that doubling in size will come from with respect to Apple.
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On topic, I agree with you that Apple's ongoing success, and its likely impetus in getting Samsung to expand in Texas, are the way economies do and should develop. I'm thinking that "the Apple effect" may soon be quantifiable in macroeconomic terms. There have to be secondary effects from putting a computer in everybody's pocket and hands.

Apple has invested huge amounts of cash world wide in the last couple of years but it is seldom shown in a positive light. Again this seems too be a recent reality where success is minimized or even ridiculed in the media. Instead we have the greedy and lazy screeming that they want, need a piece of that pie. My response to them is simple, get a job, any job and develop a little self respect. Charity is for the needy and disadvantaged not the lazy and greedy.

As to an Apple effect, I do believe something is up in that regard. I'm seeing companies that would even let an Apple product in the door embrace and support the use of iPhones and iPads. There has to be some positives coming out of this. Those are larger corporations though, I suspect that smaller operations like contractors and sales reps have the most to gain as they literally can have their whole office in their pocket. That given that software will become available. Apple is changing the world in its own little way.


As a side note it really doesn't do you much good to make fun of people speech and things like the use of the word nuclear. All you really are doing is pointing out poor communications skills of a person, which has little to do with their underlying intelligence or capabilities. So we had a president that bobbled his speech, that really shouldn't come into play when evaluating his performance as the president. One good movie that addresses this is "The Kings Speech" (if I remember the title correctly) which covered the life of a king with far greater problems with speech than most leaders have to deal with. Bush had his problems but the publics obsession with Bush'isms is really pathetic. Obama on the other hand has real ethical problems and frankly has demonstrated that he is not deserving of the office. <---- that is politics but if you don't believe that people's opinion of the president doesn't impact the economy then maybe it is time for me to get into the bridge selling business.
post #12 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

There are no overlords, it is up to people to make their own way in this world. Further if you are waiting for a handout instead of working you are a fool.


For people that actually contribute to the economy Reagonomics wasn't that bad. The reality is Reagan is long gone and frankly has been replaced by a succession of stooges. Obama is frankly the biggest moron to occupy the white house in some time.


Paying reasonable taxes is something every decent American strives for be he rich or poor. By the way the boating industry use to employ thousands. The reality is every time this country gets a bug up it's ass about taxing the rich, taxing luxuries and the like, lots of working Americans loose their jobs.

One only has to look at what is happening around Apples success to realize that making money is a good thing. Their venture with Samsung is coming online in Austin, data centers are springing up right and left, talk of buying firms is rampant and in general employment is up world wide. Making money creates jobs as Apple clearly demonstrates. Taxing the rich does nothing but expand the welfare state.

You have no evidence to back up your statements. Reagan's economic advisor Stockman one of the architects of trickle down. says it doesn't work. We see the evidence of deregulation & what happened with the banks (& throughout history). History is full of instances that when left unchecked power & greed corrupt. The economy tanked under Reagan & daddy Bush. Not only were there constitutional scandals (Iran Contra) there were also economic scandals (junk bonds, savings & loan, etc) In fact I would argue that the 2 wars we are in now are related to the foreign policy initiatives that happened during the Reagan/Bush era. The same players were involved. We are now cleaning up their mess. The country's taxes are at a decades low. Where are the jobs? Ronald Reagan raised taxes 11 times in his presidency. Where is your proof of anything you have stated. The economy tanked under baby Bush & most of the deficit happened under his watch, with a Republican majority in both houses for the majority of that tenure.
This President got handed a bag of shit from the previous administration & is consistently being blamed for it by the party that largely contributed to the whole mess. Like this huge mess left behind was going to be cleared up over night. Including the secret 7 trillion in dollars given to the banks by the federal reserve with no oversight as to where the money went. Including a poorly executed war strategy that left no good options for exit & cost the American taxpayers billions of dollars & worse lives. A war mostly being fought by, you guessed it, the Freeloaders.
Is it president Obama's problem to solve you bet it is. Did it happen under his watch & is he responsible for events that took place before his presidency...ummm no. For a party that prides itself on personal responsibility they never seem to take responsibility for anything. NOT EVEN THEIR OWN IDEAS.
Now we get to listen to the usual FREELOADER argument from the usual load mouth arrogant assholes who actually have the balls to say that they are the reason that the economy moves forward. We should all kiss their feet & thank God everyday for them watching over all of us! Of course, in their minds they come up with all the ideas & do all the work. The employees in their fold contribute absolutely nothing to move a company forward & the middle class has no buying power. It's an idiotic & arrogant view & has no basis in reality. The truth is they both need each other to survive & we need reasonable regulations to keep corruption & greed in check. The market/business will not successfully regulate itself...it never really has. Citizens of this nation have to follow laws. What makes business any different?

"One only has to look at what is happening around Apples success to realize that making money is a good thing. Their venture with Samsung is coming online in Austin, data centers are springing up right and left, talk of buying firms is rampant and in general employment is up world wide. Making money creates jobs as Apple clearly demonstrates. Taxing the rich does nothing but expand the welfare state."

Build straw men much? Apple is making money. No one is arguing that making money is a bad thing. Apple's success like any corporations successes are based on the hard work of many people within that organization. Not just the wealthy one's. This notion that no one contributes to success unless they are wealthy & have a Harvard MBA is laughable & idiotic.
A successful corporation also needs people to buy it's products. Most of those people that do buy these products have to have a reasonable income to do so. What do you consider a fair wage? This idea that the middle class is somehow a freeloader on the system & makes absolutely no contributions to industry or society is not only an unrealistic view of reality, it's total bullshit & insulting.
There has to be a balance. Corporations are not people. The wealthy in this country are not being asked to empty their pockets...they are being asked to contribute a bit more. Small & large businesses are being given tax incentives under this President. The country just bailed out the banks, which started under GEORGE W. BUSH, with close to NO INTEREST LOANS (do you think you could get that kind of deal from the banks?)...time to contribute to the over all health of "the country you/they love". The country that saved your ass & the wealth of the "Job Creators". People are just asking for laws & regulations that reflect a fair playing field...not a hand out (like the banks). The president prefers a balanced approach...the Republican party is still espousing the same trickle down THEORY from the Reagan era. That doesn't work & never has. The evidence does not match up with your statements.
post #13 of 19
Wizard69, let's see if I can contiue to do this within topic, as you did above for the most part.

I think you are right that the valuation is now reasonable for most because no one can imagine where 2x or 4x growth is going to come from. Meanwhile Andy's three articles so far are trying to show how short-sighted the general view is.

The global view, not the short view, is the Tim Cook and the legacy Steve Jobs view. They are just getting started. There is China and the chunk of the rest of the world yet to sell to. It is going to be big, very big, and if I had the spare change I'd be buying as much AAPL as I could now.

The short-sighted are the problem, and it is a disease peculiar to selfish, left-brained, fearful, reactionary, privileged people. The big global thinkers use their right brains and their empathic capabilities to imagine the future. In the case of Steve Jobs, he saw changing the world by putting desirable technology in everybody's pocket as the best way to build a company that could deserve to dominate the market in the biggest industry there is, communications. And this was a guy who could never say "et cetera," but always said "ek cetera." So you're right, good language skills don't equate with intelligence exactly. But I would never trust anyone who would say, "I don't do nuance." Obama does nuance without talking about it, and the reason he met with Jobs was to swap ideas with a person who could meet him on a strategic, global level. Would his predecessor have ever considered meeting with Steve Jobs?
post #14 of 19
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Originally Posted by arlomedia View Post

I think this is backwards, and should read, "Every time lots of working Americans lose their jobs, this country gets a bug up its ass about taxing the rich."

Americans may blame the rich for loosing their jobs but that is seldom the correct course of action, often the "rich" take part in the blood bath also. A prime local example is Kodak where tens of thousands have lost their jobs. Mind you good people that had no control over the company falling apart, but realistically there is no argument that the rich are to blame. Conversely if you where rich and geavily invested in Kodak, you are not so rich anymore.
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I don't think most Americans mind rich people being rich if they can make an honest living for themselves.

This is probably true for most folks. After all they may never interact with the ultra wealthy. My problem is not with these people, but rather the people that believe the ultra rich are out to get them personally or are directly responsible for their plight. This is seldom if ever the case.
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But when unemployment doubles and there's talk about huge cuts at all levels of government, then we have a problem and it's reasonable to question whether record low personal income taxes for wealthy Americans is part of the solution or part of the problem.

I don't think there is anybody that objects to the idea of reasonable taxes applied equally to all. The problem is that this isn't what I'm hearing lately. Rather I'm hearing of demands to punish the rich for simply being rich and to do so with excessively high taxes. Taxes by the way that will have little impact on the federal budget and probably would lead to even more unemployment. What we don't need is feel good solutions that allows some failure to say; hey we f$&ked the rich so now my life will be better. It won't be any better because the quality of his life isn't adjustable by tweaking taxes on the rich.

As to the federal budget that is so easy to fix it is almost child's play. All we need to do is take congress out of the budgeting process! OK so that won't work with our current form of government, but the reality is the ballooning budget is a direct result of congressman trying to please to many people. In many cases these people are asking of government things that government should never be involved with in the first place. In the end the public is directly responsible for the run away federal budget.

In the end un employment and govermental budget short falls are interrelated. It is a result of a slowing economy which by the way impacts the rich also. In every slow down some businesses do well, Apple for one and of course discount chains. The problem is do you really want to balance the governments budget based Apples profits? How about the discount chains that are actually rather important when people are short on cash? The unfortunate reality is that if you live on credit you eventually have to pay the bill and eventually your ability too tax people expires. There have been a number of local government defaulting recently due to such mis management, are higher taxes the answer in these situations? How about jail for the elected officials?

I could go on but in this context people have to realize that some of these political "solutions" could have a dramatically negative impact on Apples share price. So from the standpoint of an investor one needs to be very careful about what they support politically. For example there have been suggestions that companies like Apple should be forced to repatriate off shore earnings at an even higher tax rate than the current rate Apple objects to. this would not be good for share holders at all. Whatever you believe politically you can not remove the uncertainty of politics as a factor in Apples share price. Especially with the current mentality of taking as mipuch as possible from successful companies like Apple.
post #15 of 19
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Originally Posted by Flaneur View Post

Wizard69, let's see if I can contiue to do this within topic, as you did above for the most part.

I think you are right that the valuation is now reasonable for most because no one can imagine where 2x or 4x growth is going to come from. Meanwhile Andy's three articles so far are trying to show how short-sighted the general view is.

Short-sighted maybe but uncharted territory for sure. How does a company like Apple double in size in let's say five years. Small companies do so all the time with varied degrees of success but the record is pretty clean with respect to companies Apples size. So you can see there is reasonable concern.
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The global view, not the short view, is the Tim Cook and the legacy Steve Jobs view. They are just getting started. There is China and the chunk of the rest of the world yet to sell to. It is going to be big, very big, and if I had the spare change I'd be buying as much AAPL as I could now.

There is also a rough 50-50 chance that we will be at war with China in five years. If not war substantially cooled relations due to China seizing land in Asia. Either way this will have a dramatic impact on Apple. Even if this doesn't come to pass we are already seeing trade relations going to hell.
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The short-sighted are the problem, and it is a disease peculiar to selfish, left-brained, fearful, reactionary, privileged people. The big global thinkers use their right brains and their empathic capabilities to imagine the future. In the case of Steve Jobs, he saw changing the world by putting desirable technology in everybody's pocket as the best way to build a company that could deserve to dominate the market in the biggest industry there is, communications.

Well I think it is more than just putting things in people's pockets. You need to take out the green stuff to have a successful company.

Still the question remains, how long can Apple keep the dramatic growth going? They can grow I have no doubt there but at the rate seen in the last couple of years? It isn't just growing either they need to maintain the same margins to remain desirable. They may do it but again they do so in uncharted waters. The rational side of name says to be careful with my expectations.
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And this was a guy who could never say "et cetera," but always said "ek cetera." So you're right, good language skills don't equate with intelligence exactly. But I would never trust anyone who would say, "I don't do nuance." Obama does nuance without talking about it,

I see "nuance" as a firm of lying or dishonesty. In that regard you are right Obama is a very dishonest president. His attacks on civil liberties through the department of justice, backing people like Holder and his general disregard for human rights is appalling. But yet he is nuanced enough to make it look pretty. I really don't have any trust or respect for anybody that can't be honest.
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and the reason he met with Jobs was to swap ideas with a person who could meet him on a strategic, global level.

You have to accept that Obama is an idiot but one that realizes he needs to grow favor with the business world to succeed. In any event I'm left thinking that Jobs impression of Obama after the meeting was pretty negative. Jobs wasn't the type of guy looking for excuses and certainly didn't want to hear them from the commander in chief.
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Would his predecessor have ever considered meeting with Steve Jobs?

Good question but on the other hand if Jobs was a dyed in the wool democrate would he of bothered? I'm not so sure Jobs was that much of a democrate anyways as his business views certainly didn't lean that way. Jobs sounded more like a Libertarian than anything. I don't think Jobs really liked the political climate and tended to avoid it business wise. Apple only recently started engaging people in Washington to cover their interests there.

Actually I think this brings back to business and politics, get to a certain size and you can't avoid politics as a business. Business impacts politics and politics impacts business, there is no way around that. So let's say that Apple becomes a business that is 1.5 times as large as any other business in let's say two years. Right now Apple is sort of under the radar as far as big businesses go, but if they are 1.5x bigger than everybody else they become a target. Basically a target for every Tom Dick and Harry that wants a piece of the action or feels abused. This means exposure to politically motivated attacks the likes of which Apple has not seen to date. Groups like Occupy Wall Street will be trying to bend Apple over every way they can if their little party is allowed to continue.

In the end I just see all sorts of factors impacting Apples share price in the future. Some may never come to pass but Apple will have new struggles and issues of scale that will make appreciation in share price more difficult. In the end a conservative view on share price is wise.
post #16 of 19
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Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

I see "nuance" as a firm of lying or dishonesty. In that regard you are right Obama is a very dishonest president.

No one will take you seriously now, and I don't mean because you typo'd "form". The world isn't black and white unless you are 14 years old.

iPhone 5 64GB, iPhone 4S 16GB, mid-2011 iMac, Apple TV 2nd Gen, iPod Nano

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iPhone 5 64GB, iPhone 4S 16GB, mid-2011 iMac, Apple TV 2nd Gen, iPod Nano

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post #17 of 19
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Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

The Texas manufacturing plant interest me, also...

I am under the impression, that semiconductor manufacturing, while not labor-intensive, requires the use of toxic chemicals and gasses. And, because of that, health and environmental regulations have made this type of manufacturing uncompetitive/unprofitable in the U.S.

The factories are automated but my impression is that there are a lot of people employees there. I was seriously thinking about applying for a job there but Texas is pretty far south for me. They at onetime had a huge number of jobs listed.

As to environmental concerns those are worldwide. Some of the process gases like Silane are very reactive, so you either handle them correctly or you have accidents.
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I suspect that Apple paid for that plant and manufacturing equipment as part of the deal with Sammy... It is possible that Apple owns the entire facility (including land and improvements).

I'm not sure what exactly transpired here. I know back a few years ago when the plant was just talk the officials from Samsung alluded to partnerships. They weren't specific and frankly where so tight lipped that one would suspect that Apple was a key partner.

Apple has been known to partner with other manufactures so it wouldn't be a surprise here.
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It would be interesting if Apple could use its financial muscle to get Government and Industry to negotiate a solution to bring high-paid manufacturing jobs back to the U.S... or at least stop the hemorrhaging.

According to reports Steve brought this up directly with Obama when they saw each other. All he got was the usual non sense Obama is famous or.
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It was not that long ago, that Apple proudly ran a large plant in Fremont, CA.

Apple to Close Fremont Plant, Lay Off 345

A semiconductor plant involves more high value skills than simple assembly so it becomes easier to justify the expense of doing business in the USA. It is notable that both AMD and Intel have also recently built plants in the US. But actual production of logic boards is almost all off shore now. Low labor rates and cheap materials are big factors in the move to China. That is changing though as labor rates go up.
post #18 of 19
I never said the world was black and white, I said Obama was dishonest. Big difference!

Take unemployment as an example. Every administration has fudged the numbers during major recessions. This certainly happened during the early eighties and during other major recessions. In part the motivation may have been to try to change people's mindset to a more positive position. In the end lies none the less. The problem with Obama is that he goes overboard and burns his personal credibility along the way. A little bit of fudge might be forgivable as the goal might be worthwhile but the way this administration has handled the issue is just not ethical.

That is a minor issue compared to his involvement in things like Fast and Furious. You know where government tried to create crime where it didn't exist simply to try to justify policies that are contrary to our freedoms.

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Originally Posted by LarryA View Post

No one will take you seriously now, and I don't mean because you typo'd "form". The world isn't black and white unless you are 14 years old.

Contrary to your opinion there is right and wrong. Come up on the side of wrong to many times and people will take you to be a questionable person. Only a 14 year old would believe it is acceptable for a president to be so dishonest and corrupt. Maybe you weren't around when Nixon was out of control but right now Obama is just as bad. Sadly even to this day there are people that make excuses for Nixon, some never learn.
post #19 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


Paying reasonable taxes is something every decent American strives for be he rich or poor. By the way the boating industry use to employ thousands. The reality is every time this country gets a bug up it's ass about taxing the rich, taxing luxuries and the like, lots of working Americans loose their jobs.

Taxing the rich does nothing but expand the welfare state.

And not taxing the rich expands the welfare state for the rich. The 18% long-term capital gains tax is a farce. Why should investors pay 20% less than salaried workers?

Your hero, Ronald Reagan, taxed the rich at 50% (highest marginal rate) and it's now only 38%. The great Republican Dwight D. Eisenhower taxed the rich at 90%. So I'm totally in favor of returning to Eisenhower's or Reagan's tax rates for the rich.

I've never understood this mantra that raising the taxes on the rich kills jobs. Let's say you're the CEO of a large company and making $5 million. Republicans win Congress and your highest marginal tax rate drops 3%, so you come home with an extra $150,000. What does this have to do with your company creating jobs? Nothing. (OK, you might be able to make the case that they will spend that extra $150,000 and that creates jobs, but history has proven that wrong.)

Corporations are reporting record profits and there's little in the way of jobs. If you want to argue that a reduction in corporate taxes (as opposed to personal taxes) would increase jobs, at least you'd have a reasonable argument, although I don't personally believe it would make any difference.

The fact is that we've become far more productive and we've moved most manufacturing and much customer service off-shore. There may never be enough jobs for the middle-class again in this country.

There is no such thing as "being on your own" when we have 300 million living in our society. Education, roads, sewers, infrastructure, public transportation, the environment, food safety, libraries, hospitals, schools, police and the military are common to all of us. Besides, the rich were never on their own. They made their $ millions off of the backs of underpaid workers and the existing infrastructure. Do you think there'd be rich people in NYC if the subways didn't bring two million people to work every day? People who were largely educated (for better or worse) in the public school system?

And it's simply cruel to talk about people wanting handouts when we have 9% unemployment (which probably translates to 13% actual unemployment.) And that doesn't include the fact that most workers haven't seen any real income gains in 20 years.

So you know what? I don't give a fuck if some rich clown can't buy his luxury yacht because his taxes went up 2%.
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