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R-E-S-P-E-C-T

post #1 of 108
Thread Starter 
Let us forget predictions for a moment. What, in all reality and seriousness, would Apple theoretically have to come out with at MWSF or MWTO to get your RESPECT back? Try to remember the speed dump fiaso, the current mhz gap that is now a ghz gap (and itself bigger than Apple's fastest processor machine!) and a three year old iMac. Don't get me wrong , I'm not going anywhere....but GD Apple, here is what I think!

You would need to:

1) Release a G5 PowerMac in excess of 1.4 GHZ with DDR RAM and 266mhz bus.

2) Release a flat panel GHZ iMac with an Apollo G4 and the top model with a SuperDrive (well I can live w/o the superdrive)

3) Bump ibook speeds too 900mhz or 1 GHZ.

4) Lower iPod price to $249 (Sorry, I laughed my ass off at $399....cool as it is and all)

5) Ship a combo drive PBG4 with a 1GHZ+ G4.

6) Lower PM Prices to 1299, 2199 and 2999.

7) Offer and Airport Card standard on all PM's.

8) No shipping pro model should have less than 256MB of RAM. Top model should have 1GB.

Perhaps more. This isn't just what I want...for what they charge this is what they should do. Esecially in the area of the speed gap....that is just ludicrous at this point.

My other processor scenario is G4's at 1.X through 1.6GHZ with all said features and G3 flat panel iMacs in the GHZ range.

Right now, if Apple doesn't break 1GHZ with ALL four of its comps than to the pubic it is a ****ing joke.

Still love you Apple, but I think we need counseling.

PS: This is a NO APPLE APOLOGIST ZONE.

[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: SDW2001 ]</p>
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post #2 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>What, in all reality and seriousness, would Apple theoretically have to come out with at MWSF or MWTO to get your RESPECT back?</strong><hr></blockquote>

MY RESPECT FOR APPLE HAS NEVER BEEN GREATER. THEIR PRODUCTS HAVE NEVER BEEN BETTER. END OF THREAD.


[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: NeoMac ]</p>
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post #3 of 108
lol. You want Apple to sell the iPod at a huge loss!?

and with those G4 speeds in a Powerbook you'd like be able to fry your food on the damn thing
post #4 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by NeoMac:
<strong>

MY RESPECT FOR APPLE HAS NEVER BEEN GREATER. THEIR PRODUCTS HAVE NEVER BEEN BETTER. END OF THREAD.


[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: NeoMac ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ahmen!
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post #5 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>lol. You want Apple to sell the iPod at a huge loss!?

and with those G4 speeds in a Powerbook you'd like be able to fry your food on the damn thing</strong><hr></blockquote>

They make more profit on the iPod then anyother product.
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post #6 of 108
How much profit???
post #7 of 108
Dudes, the iPod is NOT a high-margin product., The drive alone costs $350.

I respect Apple. I agree that Apple needs to puta serious speed bump into ALL of its lineups in order to stay competitive. This is reality in the computer world.
post #8 of 108
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by NeoMac:
<strong>

MY RESPECT FOR APPLE HAS NEVER BEEN GREATER. THEIR PRODUCTS HAVE NEVER BEEN BETTER. END OF THREAD.


[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: NeoMac ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

You are smoking freakin crack. Apple has the highest profit margin in the industry. It is shipping PM's with 133mhz bus speeds for $3499. The speed gap is now almost 1.2 GHZ....WTF?

The iMac is three years old and still has 15" screen (not viewable area). The ipod is cool but don't even tell me $249 is a loss....maybe we'll say $299.

PowerBook Heat Issues: Not if Apollo is what we hear it will be....

I still love Apple...but not everyone gets it. I love their retail iniative and I will never go back to PC....but you guys are as frustrated as I am and you know it....
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post #9 of 108
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by cdhostage:
<strong>Dudes, the iPod is NOT a high-margin product., The drive alone costs $350.

I respect Apple. I agree that Apple needs to puta serious speed bump into ALL of its lineups in order to stay competitive. This is reality in the computer world.</strong><hr></blockquote>

WTF ever, dude. It might cost US that much....it probably costs them $150.00.
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post #10 of 108
Hmmm. I think that SDW2001 or what his name is has got a point. Only because i wouldn't even use a PC if the Mac was still on OS 7.6 and a g3 266 Mhz that doesn't mean I am blind, or have no needs.
And if you look at Apple from a students point of view, it is a RIDICULOUS Company. I know a huge amount of people who like Apple, but just think that they are takin' the PISS with their pricing policy. Well, everyone has to decide himself how much money he could spend, but if that decision is made so damn easy by Apple by simply delivering highly outdated technology (from an amateurs point of view), than it's time to talk about what they SHOULD do in order to be an attractive company again. Apple should NOT not continue this massively arrogant design policy and just design cool products for the sake of designing a cool product. After all it's people and their needs who they have to design it for. Takin that into account, their products will kick ass even more (well, they do anyway, designwise)If they continue neglecting that, they are already DEAD. So what do you guys NEED from a company like Apple? We should be going on and tell them. They will listen.

[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: SuperKoch ]</p>
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post #11 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>

WTF ever, dude. It might cost US that much....it probably costs them $150.00.</strong><hr></blockquote>

do some research. the drive alone retails for 399-499.

Apple's "cost" for the iPod according to them is $319

that sounds about right to me. You thought Apple just made it 399 for the hell of it? give me a break. I'm sure they are dieing to cut the price.
post #12 of 108
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>

do some research. the drive alone retails for 399-499.

Apple's "cost" for the iPod according to them is $319

that sounds about right to me. You thought Apple just made it 399 for the hell of it? give me a break. I'm sure they are dieing to cut the price.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It doesn't cost them that much. No ****ing way. Maybe $250.
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post #13 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>

It doesn't cost them that much. No ****ing way. Maybe $250.</strong><hr></blockquote>

look, face the facts.

the drive is retailing for 499 at some places.

Apple needs to add a case, firewire, the bridge chip, 2 processors, 32 MB of solid state storage, an LCD screen, a backlight, the OS, the headphones, and the packaging.

you're numbers of 150 and even 250 are insane for that at this time.

Apple generally sells Developers all their hardware at cost. The iPod is $319 for developers.
post #14 of 108
My Respect = My Money

They won't get another dime of it until I see a G5. My Rev. A iMac is still great for surfing the web and checking email, but it's a dog for everything else (including X, which I'm growing to love despite my speed issues). And now that I've been out of school and in the workforce for a couple of years I have some money to start getting into photographic manipulation and digital photography. So I really want to get a pro model in the coming year. However, I've played around with X on a 866 and a Dual 800 and I still remain unimpressed with certain speed aspects of the UI (ie. window resizing). Classic's UI on my Rev. A still gets the nod, and that's sad.

So basically I'm waiting for a machine that's going to make X fly and that will allow me to run some highend apps efficiently. The current offerings fall just a bit short. Add to that the prices, and I'm definitely not going to touch them with a 10 foot pole.
post #15 of 108
Yeah right applenut. The price of the iPod is ridiculous. You know damn well it cost Apple a lot less than this supposed $319 figure you pulled out of your @$$.

For Apple to gain my respect they must release systems that not only compete with but beat PCs. That means G5s.

PowerMac
1.0, 1.2, 1.4 GHz
Rapid I/O
400 MHz bus
DDR RAM
new case with 2 5.25" drive bays
GeForce 3 standard
DVD-RW standard
1599, 1999, 2499, 2999

iMac
15" LCD w/1400x1050 resolution (see Samsung's LCDs)
IBM "Sahara" G3 (800 MHz-1 GHz)
200 MHz SDR bus
GeForce2 MX w/32 MB RAM

Powerbook G4

G4 "Apollo" 7460
1.0, 1.13, 1.26 GHz
133 MHz bus
combo drive
higher screen resolution
ATI Radeon Mobility 7500 or nVidia NV17 w/32 OR 64 MB RAM
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post #16 of 108
You won't be spending any money any time soon.
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post #17 of 108
Your question suggests that Apple actually CAN win the respect back

Anywais, There's just no f*ck!ng way I would buy an Apple now. In short I like reasonably (whatever that is) priced Mac that runs it OS flawlessly.
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post #18 of 108
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>

look, face the facts.

the drive is retailing for 499 at some places.

Apple needs to add a case, firewire, the bridge chip, 2 processors, 32 MB of solid state storage, an LCD screen, a backlight, the OS, the headphones, and the packaging.

you're numbers of 150 and even 250 are insane for that at this time.

Apple generally sells Developers all their hardware at cost. The iPod is $319 for developers.</strong><hr></blockquote>

No, they TELL developers they pay that much for hardware...and BTW, three words: RETAIL PRICES MEAN SHIT. It costs them less than $300....it has to...maybe $280....no more. The $150 was just a shot in the dark..

What do they charge a developer for dual 800?
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post #19 of 108
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>

No, they TELL developers they pay that much for hardware...and BTW, three words: RETAIL PRICES MEAN SHIT. It costs them less than $300....it has to...maybe $280....no more. The $150 was just a shot in the dark..

What do they charge a developer for dual 800?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh, and I never said 150 and 250 were the final cost....I just meant the drive. who knows what they pay.....maybe we can find out....who makes it?
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post #20 of 108
Thread Starter 
Wow...I quoted myself....maybe I'll roll my eyes at myself

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post #21 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>

No, they TELL developers they pay that much for hardware...and BTW, three words: RETAIL PRICES MEAN SHIT. It costs them less than $300....it has to...maybe $280....no more. The $150 was just a shot in the dark..

What do they charge a developer for dual 800?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Why does it have to be less than $300. I think everything that applenut said is pretty reasonable.
post #22 of 108
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by EmAn:
<strong>

Why does it have to be less than $300. I think everything that applenut said is pretty reasonable.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Don't you always?

...seriously, I just don't think it actually costs that much. Remember the retail price on the SuperDrive was$999 and Apple put it in PowerMac w/o raising the price. According to your logic the price should have been like $4499.....
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post #23 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by cdhostage:
<strong>Dudes, the iPod is NOT a high-margin product., The drive alone costs $350.

I respect Apple. I agree that Apple needs to puta serious speed bump into ALL of its lineups in order to stay competitive. This is reality in the computer world.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Uh yes it is. I can't find the link (I've been looking for it) They bought shitloads of the HDs so they are a lot cheaper plus they are wholesale not retail. The iPod id one if not they biggest profit margin ratio product Apple has. NOT $ wise, but MARGIN wise.
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post #24 of 108
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by KidRed:
<strong>

Uh yes it is. I can't find the link (I've been looking for it) They bought shitloads of the HDs so they are a lot cheaper plus they are wholesale not retail. The iPod id one if not they biggest profit margin ratio product Apple has. NOT $ wise, but MARGIN wise.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Exactly. It will come down next year....
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post #25 of 108
[quote]No, they TELL developers they pay that much for hardware...and BTW, three words: RETAIL PRICES MEAN SHIT. It costs them less than $300....it has to...maybe $280....no more. The $150 was just a shot in the dark..

What do they charge a developer for dual 800? <hr></blockquote>

one would think they would lie to the developers about cost but Apple doesn't.

The PowerMac G4/dual 800 is supposedly costs 2799. that's the developer discount.

why does the iPod have to cost less than what you think? Can you not except the fact that its an expensive device to manufacture at this time?

Toshiba makes the drive. feel free to research the OEM pricing for it. I'm not gonna waste time doing only to prove you wrong.

[quote]
...seriously, I just don't think it actually costs that much. Remember the retail price on the SuperDrive was$999 and Apple put it in PowerMac w/o raising the price. According to your logic the price should have been like $4499..... <hr></blockquote>

MY LOGIC? Apple probably gets the drive for 225-250. the rest of the iPod is not cheap either and is likely around the 319 developer "cost" price.

[quote]Uh yes it is. I can't find the link (I've been looking for it) They bought shitloads of the HDs so they are a lot cheaper plus they are wholesale not retail. The iPod id one if not they biggest profit margin ratio product Apple has. NOT $ wise, but MARGIN wise. <hr></blockquote>

1.) there reaches a point where no matter how many you buy, cost simply won't go down anymore. especially when demand outstrips supply. the drive isn't going to magically go down from 300 bucks to 150 just because Apple bought several thousands.
2.) some facts to backup your statement of the iPod having the highest margin percentage wise would be helpful. I've provided my "facts" based on the developer pricing which is normally inline with cost of the product.

[quote]Yeah right applenut. The price of the iPod is ridiculous. You know damn well it cost Apple a lot less than this supposed $319 figure you pulled out of your @$$.<hr></blockquote>

above applies to you too.
post #26 of 108
Thread Starter 
Applenut writes:

1.) there reaches a point where no matter how many you buy, cost simply won't go down anymore. especially when demand outstrips supply. the drive isn't going to magically go down from 300 bucks to 150 just because Apple bought several thousands.
2.) some facts to backup your statement of the iPod having the highest margin percentage wise would be helpful. I've provided my "facts" based on the developer pricing which is normally inline with cost of the product.

1) Ok, well you make a good point there. But the questions is, where is "that" point of "no more discount". I still think they got it cheap.

2) Who says its inline with the cost of the product...you? Did Apple tell you?
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post #27 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>

Don't you always?
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, if you remember back before AI went down there were quite a few times that me and applenut didn't agree at all. The only time I agree with him is when he's right and recently I feel he's been right about a lot of the things he's posted.
post #28 of 108
[quote] 1.) there reaches a point where no matter how many you buy, cost simply won't go down anymore. especially when demand outstrips supply. the drive isn't going to magically go down from 300 bucks to 150 just because Apple bought several thousands.
2.) some facts to backup your statement of the iPod having the highest margin percentage wise would be helpful. I've provided my "facts" based on the developer pricing which is normally inline with cost of the product. <hr></blockquote>

Well, if you read my post I said I can't find the link. You can have your opinion, I know what I read. Apple makes the highest margin off the iPod reguardless of what you think. I never specualted on what Apple pays for the drives, meerly specualting that it isn't ANYWHERE near what Joe Shmoe would pay thus leading to the profit margin on the iPod. Thank you, have a nice day
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post #29 of 108
Applenut is absolutely right about the ipod.

The drive mechanism is VERY scarce right now and extremely expensive as a result. They ipods cost a TON of money for apple to make, this is their lowest margin product. go find distributor prices for all of the parts, add in R&D and go figure. Dont be so dense.
post #30 of 108
Bullshit. I heard the iPod costs $499 and Apple is losing $100 on it. Steve loves us and dropped the price to $399 to make us happy.

BTW, I just think EmAn is such a little cutie.

[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: murbot ]</p>
post #31 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by SDW2001:
<strong>Applenut writes:


2) Who says its inline with the cost of the product...you? Did Apple tell you?</strong><hr></blockquote>

figure in their reported margins and you'll get the figures they offer developers. employees also get their hardware at cost and its the SAME exact product list. so please, I've provided my info. If you're going to keep telling me I'm wrong you're gonna have to do a better job defending your point
post #32 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by applenut:
<strong>

figure in their reported margins and you'll get the figures they offer developers. employees also get their hardware at cost and its the SAME exact product list. so please, I've provided my info. If you're going to keep telling me I'm wrong you're gonna have to do a better job defending your point</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm not telling you you are wrong, again read all my posts, I'm telling you what I read. You can believe it or not as I can't find the link or remember what site it was on. I don't have to defend an opinion based on something I read.
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post #33 of 108
[quote]Originally posted by murbot:
BTW, I just think EmAn is such a little cutie.

<hr></blockquote>

Yep, that's me, a little cutie.

[ 12-05-2001: Message edited by: EmAn ]</p>
post #34 of 108
[quote] SDW2001 wrote:
Right now, if Apple doesn't break 1GHZ with ALL four of its comps than to the pubic it is a ****ing joke. <hr></blockquote>

Everything to my pubic is a ****ing joke. :cool:

- Pook
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post #35 of 108
The way I see it...

It does not matter if Apple's margins on the iPod are "RAPE" or just "SEXUAL ASSAULT"...

THEY HAVE THE HIGHEST MARGINS OF ANYONE ELSE IN THE INDUSTRY - FACE IT ALREADY. Your continued support of their behavior is why the rest of us have to pay $399 for it! Even if their margins for THIS product are on the low(Apple)end, it is still MORE THAN IT SHOULD BE!

Is this a hard concept to understand? Do you guys even you at the financials from quarter to quarter?

----Yes, I love Apple.
----I just understand the illusion in front of me
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post #36 of 108
what the hell are you babling about?

if cost is really $319 for Apple then what margins do you expect them to have? 30 bucks? be real.

it's their desktops that are a ripoff.

the iPod will come down as the components come down in cost.


BTW, I looked all over for OEM sales info on the drive. nothing. just the $399 figure. the 2GB version costs $299.
post #37 of 108
The developer prices are almost always exactly 20% off list. These prices are NOT their cost -- they've never said so, and it doesn't make any sense for their margins on everything to be EXACTLY 20%. On the low-margin products (iMac, iBook), it's probably close, but that's about it.

The only thing that I remember not having a developer discount was the Cinema Display when priced at $4000. That probably indicates that they weren't making anything on it at the time.

Their cost for the iPod is most likely less than $319. How much less, I haven't a clue.

I say let 'em rake in the cash. It just means better Macs for us.

Alex
post #38 of 108
OK, I have to throw in my 2 cents (very little profit margin). I am in the contract manufacturing industry, the company i work for makes everything from multi-million dollar destructive electron tools and x-ray equipment for microprocessor analysis to networking equipment, lotto ticket machines, etc.... I've worked in estimating (determining how much we can build and sell a product for), buying (self explanatory), and currently documentation (make the manuals to show our employees how to build the stuff).

While I won't pretend to know how much Apple gets the drives for (which will be based on an agreement to buy a certain qty over a certain period of time) or the cost of the LCD, case chips, etc.... You are all overlooking the overhead costs!!!! R&D is pricey!!! I would assume initial tooling and setup shouldn't be that bad due to the volume they probably contracted for. I'm assuming the R&D is pretty substantial. I'll agree that most company's make a practice of overpricing when a product is released to try and recoup R&D within the first 6 months to 1 year, but we don't know in this situation.

Someone put a list of known components in this device and I will search our pricing database and try to get a reasonable estimate.

Give me the following:
Manufacturer name and part number for the HD, chips, and LCD, battery etc...

Give me that info and I'll get back to you.
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post #39 of 108
Great effort, Slacker, but reading the NAME of the thread, he the man:

[quote]Originally posted by Dali:
<strong>

It does not matter if Apple's margins on the iPod are "RAPE" or just "SEXUAL ASSAULT"... <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />

THEY HAVE THE HIGHEST MARGINS OF ANYONE ELSE IN THE INDUSTRY - FACE IT ALREADY. Your continued support of their behavior is why the rest of us have to pay $399 for it! [...]
----Yes, I love Apple.
----I just understand the illusion in front of me</strong><hr></blockquote>

And never worry about the detail too much. Just point the BIG GUN into the right direction! And I still think: If Apple wants our RESPECT, well...they will have to make products which are meeting our needs. Not our Nerds (the gadget freaks etc.)
TWD

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: SuperKoch ]</p>
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post #40 of 108
SuperKoch - that was an excellent response, props to that.

Could anyone please direct me to any site or link that would enlighten me about Apple's profit margins?

I have heard a lot of conjecture, no facts, I would like to know just how high they are even if they are relatively low.
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