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Redesigned iPhone 5, expanded iPad lineup anticipated from Apple in 2012 - Page 2

post #41 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

One word: Sprint.

Is this really a problem? I've always considered Sprint to be 4th among US carriers, despite what the data suggests. GSM is a global standard, but Sprint followed Verizon's lead and hopped on the CDMA train. While this may have advantages, they'll always be fighting with VZ for customers and it doesn't take much thought to figure out who would win that battle.

Also, CDMA in its current form doesn't really have a future (in the US anyways) so now they have to get off old tech and jettison a losing fourth-generation network strategy (WiMax) and invest large amounts of money to transition sites or build up their network.

As to your point, it's not like any of the carriers have an alternative. Once they can offer the iPhone they're essentially stuck. People broke contracts just to get the iPhone, if Sprint got pissed and wanted out, people could just as easily leave. Loyalty to Apple far outweighs any commitment people have to a carrier.
post #42 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMF View Post

Is this really a problem?

Them selling a phone called "iPhone LTE" that runs on their network when it isn't an LTE network sounds something like a problem.

For them and false advertising lawsuits, at least.

Originally Posted by Marvin

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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #43 of 98
Munster at his predictions again. Unfortunately his track record is less than what one would expect. Take all this analysis with a grain of salt
post #44 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Them selling a phone called "iPhone LTE" that runs on their network when it isn't an LTE network sounds something like a problem.

For them and false advertising lawsuits, at least.

What makes you think that by next year Verizon and AT&T won't have sufficient LTE coverage to justify this? As I said earlier, Sprint is the issue, but I can't see Apple waiting on them to get moving on LTE (might take several years before they get critical mass).

Not good if you're on Sprint, but they made a bad choice (even if it seemed right at the time).
post #45 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMF View Post

What makes you think that by next year Verizon and AT&T won't have sufficient LTE coverage to justify this?

Where did I say anything about that? And that's not the argument. They have LTE now. Sprint doesn't.

I don't think AT&T had sufficient 3G coverage to justify being able to sell the iPhone 3G when it came out, but that's the past.

Quote:
As I said earlier, Sprint is the issue, but I can't see Apple waiting on them to get moving on LTE (might take several years before they get critical mass).

I don't think that Apple would wait either. Just that they wouldn't name it after a technology that one of their primary carriers doesn't have.

Originally Posted by Marvin

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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #46 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by poke View Post

But anyway, my point is there are reasons Apple does what it does and those reasons are not typically "we need a new design every year to stay fresh", and acting as if they are makes for bad analysis.

Finally someone saying how Apple really works its design. I agree with EVERYTHING you said!! Most people here and everywhere lose this fact in their analysis of marketing. Apple is great at marketing their products BUT marketing doesn't drive their design.

Bravo to you... sir.
post #47 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

One word: Sprint.

Not saying it won't HAVE LTE, just that it wouldn't be called that.

A few more words: Apple didn't release the "iPhone HSPA" or the "iPhone HSDPA". Apple chooses the broad term for a level of telephony, not a branch of it (LTE, for example).

I have doubts about the device being called iPhone LTE (because it doesn't seem marketable) and doubts about it being called iPhone 4G (because it seems too confusing to the average user after the 5th generation being the iPhone 4S), but Sprint is rolling out LTE so I don't think that is an issue.

Even in 2012 LTE will still be limited. More limited than HSDPA and EV-DO was on AT&T and Verizon's networks, respectively, back in 2007.

Quote:
At Sprints Developer Conference, CEO Dan Hesse said that Sprints upcoming LTE rollout would cover some 125 million people by the end of 2012, and 250 million people by the end of 2013.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #48 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

How could anyone possibly believe the next model will be the "iPhone 5"?

Umm because that's what everyone (consumers) are expecting. However, I predict, whatever Apple calls it people will be knocking down doors to buy it.
post #49 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post

Umm because that's what everyone (consumers) are expecting.

No. They're NOT.

Originally Posted by Marvin

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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #50 of 98
How about the iMac- it screams for an update.
post #51 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMF View Post

Why not iPhone LTE? The 3G followed this pattern (based on technology and arguably the most important improvement). Apple even went out of the way to mention that 4G isn't well defined at this point (partially due to marketing and disagreements about the spec itself). It's not like people will be confused whether or not future models beyond next year will have LTE capability.

Consider:

1st: iPhone

2nd: iPhone 3G (Tech)

3rd: iPhone 3GS (Tech/Performance - 'S is for speed')

4th: iPhone 4 (This is the exception...)

5th: iPhone 4S (Tech/Performance - Could be for Speed or Siri, but Siri at this point is a novelty and far from essential, despite what Google would have you believe)

6th: iPhone LTE (Tech)

Any thoughts?

Yeah but you probably wouldn't care to hear them. /s

However nice history lesson. BUT Apple IMO will never call the next iPhone the iPhone LTE because most consumers do not understand that tech moniker. They do know 4G so maybe it has a chance. My guess is it will be called iPhone 5.
post #52 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post

My guess is it will be called iPhone 5.

Filler.

Originally Posted by Marvin

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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #53 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Filler.

I've given up. The reasoning is as sound as calling the 6th generation the iPhone 4 because it will be the 4th design change for the exterior. Words and phrases change meaning over time because too people use them incorrectly that it becomes the new standard so maybe Apple will have no choice but use this irrational nomenclature to best market the device.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #54 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

I think Apple will have to eventually settle on a better naming scheme. What about calling the next one iPhone 12, for the year? At least with the year in the name it makes things a lot less confusing. You could even add the storage number to be even more precise like the iPhone 1264 for an iPhone released in 2012 with 64GB of storage.

You can also add a country code and carrier to the name to make it look more like an Intel part number. iPhone 1264T1776 to refer to the 2012 64GB US T-Mobile iPhone.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #55 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

maybe Apple will have no choice but use this irrational nomenclature to best market the device.

Eh, Apple will do whatever they want to do. People made fun of iPad, iTab, and iSlate. Didn't stop them.

I still wish Apple had called their tablet Slice. It's a revolution in computing in its own right, and it needs to have name more suited to a product that is first in its category, not some third run of a completely different type of device.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #56 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

No. They're NOT.

Yes. They are!!! Most consumers are not tech junkies like us. They could care less about naming conventions. Just that 5 comes after 4 and new owners probably didn't even know the time span between 4 and 4S.
post #57 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post

Yes. They are!!! Most consumers are not tech junkies like us. They could care less about naming conventions. Just that 5 comes after 4 and new owners probably didn't even know the time span between 4 and 4S.

I don't see people asking where the iPhone 2 went.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #58 of 98
Apple understands that refreshing is necessary from the technology standpoint AND the consumerism standpoint. I have an iPhone 4 and am still under my AT&T contract. I did not want to upgrade to 4S only to have a new phone come out six or eight months later, so I skipped much as I did the 3GS. Sure, some people upgrade with each new phone, but many are on the "every other" program, and the longer since the upgraded phone was released the less likely people are going to upgrade to it. That is, few people will upgrade to the 4S after it's been out for eight or ten months. The 4S was primarily put out to capitalize on the Christmas sales and unless there's a new phone in 2012, US sales will steadily decline throughout the year. A new phone in June will bring in those of us on "every other" timing to see if Siri is really the best thing since canned beer.
post #59 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by kvh14 View Post

The 4S was primarily put out to capitalize on the Christmas sales

Not the case.

Quote:
and unless there's a new phone in 2012

Like there won't be.

Quote:
US sales will steadily decline throughout the year.

No, they've been increasing.

Quote:
A new phone in June

Way too early. We're on an October cycle now.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #60 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Where did I say anything about that? And that's not the argument. They have LTE now. Sprint doesn't.

I don't think AT&T had sufficient 3G coverage to justify being able to sell the iPhone 3G when it came out, but that's the past.

I don't think that Apple would wait either. Just that they wouldn't name it after a technology that one of their primary carriers doesn't have.


Although it's a long shot, they could release it separately on Sprint at some point when they have enough capacity, but that takes the idea of 1 phone for everyone off the table.

It wouldn't solve everyone's needs, but Sprint is the last carrier I'd be worried about, given their size. The demand on AT&T and Verizon is much greater from what I can tell.

People will bring up the issues around the 3G's launch, but having gone through that experience personally, I think everyone was more frustrated about the tight supply of iPhones and activation issues than a lack of 3G coverage.
post #61 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

I guess you missed the news about Sprint rolling out their LTE network. Sprint actually has far more towers than AT&T or Verizon. The problem is that it was divided between IDEN use for Netxtel and those for Sprint. With network vision, all towers will be repurposed to use the former 800Mhz IDEN band for Sprint LTE. This will result in decreasing the total number of towers, but vastly increasing the native Sprint towers and coverage map.

Clearwire, their old WiMax partner, will also be building out LTE as well. If Lightsquared can get approval, that would further supplement Sprint's LTE coverage. But Sprint does have a solid plan for transitioning to LTE. It really is not far behind AT&T.

For those of you that think WiMax was a mistake, please remember that Clear and Sprint would have lost that spectrum if it wasn't used. The FCC put certain conditions on the sale. There was no LTE ready equipment at the time so they really didn't have any other choice. If they didn't deploy WiMax equipment they would have lost it completely. Spectrum and bandwidth will extremely important in the future and Sprint has a lot of room to grow.

This articles gives more details.
http://s4gru.spruz.com/pt/New-Networ...today/blog.htm

I heard that they were transitioning to LTE from WiMax, but hadn't seen any details on it until now. My concern about Sprint throughout this entire conversation has been that it will take time (perhaps a year or more) to enable much of the infrastructure that LTE needs (having towers already built helps, but as you said, frequency changes need to be made). With that said, regardless of what the name of the next phone is, I can't think of a good alternative for Apple given the different stages of LTE that each carrier has. Waiting it out for another year isn't really a feasible option at this point either.

For all we know, it may well end up as iPhone 5, but the naming scheme undoubtedly presents a problem, at least from a marketing standpoint. Consumers may not really care what it's called, but they're expecting '5' so Apple may have to go with it.
post #62 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

I think they will do it exactly like they did originally with the 3gs. They keep the two 16 gig wifi only models of the iPad 2 on sale and knock $100 off them, targeting kids and such. If you want the better, faster, Siri etc you get the iPad 3 which could step up to 32GB as the base model

Although I'll contine to buy the top of the line model no matter what, I'd love for that to be a 128GB model. My 64 is always full.

Six x 3.5GHz '14 MP, 64GB, 1TB PCIe, 16TB HDs
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Six x 3.5GHz '14 MP, 64GB, 1TB PCIe, 16TB HDs
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post #63 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMF View Post

Can someone give me a good argument as to what was wrong with the buttonless Shuffle?

It was totally not consonant with the Apple "it just works" mantra - an opaque device controlled by an arbitrary series of click gestures which had to be memorized. About as intuitive as memorizing keyboard commands for early DOS productivity programs like Wordstar! And like a sick baby. If it wasn't happy with your input, it couldn't tell you why. I called it a flop and a dead-end the day it came out.

For that matter, Apple's lucky there are alternatives to its 2, 3 and 4 finger trackpad swipe gestures. I have friends who love Macs and have been using them for years. And who, until I informed them were blithely unaware these things even existed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

I think Apple will have to eventually settle on a better naming scheme. What about calling the next one iPhone 12, for the year? At least with the year in the name it makes things a lot less confusing. You could even add the storage number to be even more precise like the iPhone 1264 for an iPhone released in 2012 with 64GB of storage.

Nooo! Not the year naming thing. Even MS has recognized the folly of that, except in its Office line where real advances have gotten harder, so planned obsolescence by ancient sounding years is a marketing tool. I'm glad my car is a Camry XLE - it's in perfect visual condition - and I'd be most unhappy if it had badging that said Camry 04.....

..and I'll buy you the first "iPhone 1264" that comes out. Speaking of non-Applish naming conventions. (tho PS, the iPhone's 12th iteration, if it's not implanted, may be more measured in TB's of storage rather than GB's) (But hey, that would be a good name for a retro/hi tech club in NYC - "TBGB's"!)(You get it or you don't, so don't worry if that's a head scratcher.)


..and in other news, I'm amazed at the passion of people claiming there will be no iPhone 5 because it's illogical for this reason or that. Once you go from "phone" to "3" then 3GS, 4, 4S you're not exactly counting in numbers (or numerology to read some of the more over-the-top comments) at all. As long as it's not named after fattening junk food treats I'll be happy.....

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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post #64 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Way too early. We're on an October cycle now.

I surely hope not. This year Apple did a minor upgrade, and Google a major one.

iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
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iPhone 4S 64GB, Black, soon to be sold in favor of a Nokia Lumia 920
Early 2010 MacBook Pro 2.4GHz, soon to be replaced with a Retina MacBook Pro, or an Asus U500

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post #65 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

This year Apple did a minor upgrade

No, that's not the case.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #66 of 98
Yeah, tomorrow is Thursday. Get that onto your diary, analysts!
post #67 of 98
hey I want to be an Analyst
post #68 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

Unless Apple have been dining on stupid sauce, it'll be called the iPhone 6. Or, maybe, just maybe, the iPhone 4G. Or there's a slight possibility of iPhone 4GS, though I hope not.

But not iPhone 5. Nope.

iPhone 5S

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Mac IIcx, Mac Quadra 800, Mac Performa 5200, Power Mac 8600, LaserWriter, iPhone 3G, iPad 3G, iPhone 4S | MacBook Pro, 27" iMac, iPad 3 LTE

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post #69 of 98
Phones and tablets.
Get back to me when Apple decides to expand the desktop line up.
post #70 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacTac View Post

Phones and tablets.
Get back to me when Apple decides to expand the desktop line up.

Desktop now is a second class citizen. They actually considering getting rid of Mac Pro.

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Mac IIcx, Mac Quadra 800, Mac Performa 5200, Power Mac 8600, LaserWriter, iPhone 3G, iPad 3G, iPhone 4S | MacBook Pro, 27" iMac, iPad 3 LTE

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post #71 of 98
edit: Mea culpa. thought mercury wrote Macs, not desktops.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #72 of 98
Nah, don't even bother taking Munster's advice with a grain of salt.

Just pitch it into the circular file, where it deserves to be.
post #73 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post


The phrase "no shit" comes to mind with these so called predictions.

Not exactly...

They predicted the iPhone 5 last time... and all we got was the iPhone 4S
post #74 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury99 View Post


Desktop now is a second class citizen. They actually considering getting rid of Mac Pro.

The Mac Pro is more of a "workstation" anyway... starting at $2500.

If Apple does kill the Mac Pro... I'm fairly certain the iMac will still be around.

While laptops rule the roost... desktops are still in demand. Somebody must be buying them.
post #75 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I don't see people asking where the iPhone 2 went.

That's my point. Thanks for making it for me. Normal people don't care what it's called. Just is it the new one. They know iPhone 4 was used. So they see 4 as new to 3 and 4S as an extension of 4 and will see 5 as an all new phone, particularly if Apple redesigns it.
post #76 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post

That's my point. Thanks for making it for me. Normal people don't care what it's called. Just is it the new one. They know iPhone 4 was used. So they see 4 as new to 3 and 4S as an extension of 4 and will see 5 as an all new phone, particularly if Apple redesigns it.

No, MY point is that they couldn't care less what number it is as long as the number is later. So they'll have no problem accepting iPhone 6.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #77 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac View Post

I think calling it the iPhone 5 has a very good chance simply because they have followed this for four phones in a row. 3G to 3GS, the 4 to 4S. Maybe that is a precedent they want to stick with. If so it would likely be called the iPhone 5 then 5GS or something similar. That is probably more likely than calling it an iPhone 6.

At the end of the day it really doesn't matter, people will just call it an iPhone and buy the latest iteration. Apple will call it whatever they like and who really cares? I am more interested in what it will include. I just pray that it has at least a 4" screen. That one change alone would get me to upgrade. 3.5" is just too small. If I had never used a 4.3" screen maybe I wouldn't care so much, but once you get used to it the iPhone screen really feels small. That is really my only complaint with making the switch.

I agree with your naming convention thoughts. As for a larger screen, for me I hope not. I'd rather it get smaller or remain the same. I think the iPhone is too big as a phone now. I don't watch movies or play games on it, and I don't use the browser much. I miss the smallness of the flip phone style. That's just me though. If I was actually going to use the iPhone as a smart phone, then I can see the 3.5 size work. But as a phone, it's just too big in my pocket now, particularly when you add a security type case. Then it's not only heftier but heavy too.
post #78 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by Quote:


US sales will steadily decline throughout the year.

No, they've been increasing.

Talk about taking what he said out of context. The year 2012 hasn't even started yet for the sales of any new phone.
post #79 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post

Talk about taking what he said out of context. The year 2012 hasn't even started yet for the sales of any new phone.

Fiscal year is the only thing that is counted/matters.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
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post #80 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post

Talk about taking what he said out of context. The year 2012 hasn't even started yet for the sales of any new phone.

Regardless of whether calendar or fiscal year was intended I don't see the justification for doom and gloom prediction of "sales steadily declining".

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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