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Samsung's TouchWiz preventing Galaxy S owners from getting Android 4.0 ICS - Page 5

post #161 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

Versus having a phone which can never have battery life even close to that of an iOS device. Big deal!

Look, I've owned multiple Android phones that did better than my 4S is currently. You're just making general, incorrect statements.
post #162 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

The difference is that Android users do have a solution, if they just look for it.

*coughjailbreakingcough*

Quote:
Apple users must kneel to Apple's will.

*coughjailbreakingcough*

Quote:
For instance, if you upgrade your iPhone 4 to iOS 5.0.1 and find that it now eats battery, you're screwed. End of story.

Well, what have we here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

What is jailbreaking going to get me? A phone I can barely use… … that still has bad battery life. Awful. It makes me miss Android a bit.

Yeah, I can see why that might bring back memories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

You can lambaste and call me a troll all you want, but I am just an Apple user that plays devil's advocate.

No, you're just propagating blatant lies.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #163 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

And we have the trolls show up who just don't get it. Techtards be damned - the overwhelming majority of consumers do not want to, know how to, or are to complacent to try to root their devices. They should just work, and be updated seamlessly, but are getting screwed by these companies selling them crap. Obsolete the day they walk out of the store.

I could also claim that the majority don't care if they ever get an update to Android 4.0/ICS
post #164 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

I could also claim that the majority don't care if they ever get an update to Android 4.0/ICS

OH! Was that you earlier who said that there's nothing you can do with 4.0 that you can't with 2.2, thereby "justifying" the fact that it's okay that three month old phones will never receive another software update?

SOMEone said that; I can't remember who.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #165 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

*coughjailbreakingcough*



*coughjailbreakingcough*



Well, what have we here.



Yeah, I can see why that might bring back memories.



No, you're just propagating blatant lies.

Back up your claims.
- How can jailbreaking improve my battery life?
- How do I downgrade w/o SHSH blobs? My phone came with 4.3.5.

Your solution to everything is jailbreaking which circumvents the whole Apple gospel. Besides that, for MANY MANY people, it is a poor or otherwise impossible solution.
post #166 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

Your solution to everything is jailbreaking which circumvents the whole Apple gospel.

And your solution is rooting

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #167 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

OH! Was that you earlier who said that there's nothing you can do with 4.0 that you can't with 2.2, thereby "justifying" the fact that it's okay that three month old phones will never receive another software update?

SOMEone said that; I can't remember who.

I don't recall ever saying that, nor do I care to search for who might have. Again, you make a blatantly incorrect statement. The phones can easily run Android 4.0/ICS if the user is willing. A bit different than 'never'.
post #168 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

Look, I've owned multiple Android phones that did better than my 4S is currently. You're just making general, incorrect statements.

Under the same conditions? If you constantly try and manage Wi-Fi, bluetooth, screen etc. on an Android device I'm sure you can get close, but if you leave iOS/Android devices with Wi-Fi on permanently, bluetooth off, screen at half-brightness and make general usage over a day the iOS device WILL last longer, fact!
post #169 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

And your solution is rooting

Yeah, it is. Rooting is not violating ToS. Jailbreaking is. Rooting actually works on the Android phone, Jailbreaking is (currently) a half solution.
post #170 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

Again, you make a blatantly incorrect statement. The phones can easily run Android 4.0/ICS if the user is willing.

You don't have a clue about which phones I'm talking. Nice try.

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply

Originally Posted by Marvin

The only thing more insecure than Android’s OS is its userbase.
Reply
post #171 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

Under the same conditions? If you constantly try and manage Wi-Fi, bluetooth, screen etc. on an Android device I'm sure you can get close, but if you leave iOS/Android devices with Wi-Fi on permanently, bluetooth off, screen at half-brightness and make general usage over a day the iOS device WILL last longer, fact!

There a million ways to compare battery life on devices. I will just plainly state that my 4S battery life is PATHETIC (for an Apple device). Also I'm not constantly playing on the phone in a way which would cause drain. I have iCloud and most notifications off. Hopefully there is a fix soon.
post #172 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

You don't have a clue about which phones I'm talking. Nice try.

I'm talking about the Galaxy S since that's what the thread is about.
post #173 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

There a million ways to compare battery life on devices. I will just plainly state that my 4S battery life is PATHETIC (for an Apple device). Also I'm not constantly playing on the phone in a way which would cause drain. I have iCloud and most notifications off. Hopefully there is a fix soon.

Best thing I've found for battery life is turning of the pointless "Setting Timezone" setting in "Location Services > System Services". Never need to change it anyway.
post #174 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

I will just plainly state that my 4S battery life is PATHETIC (for an Apple device).

And yet it still beats the competition on battery life for the performance, meh!
post #175 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

Yeah, it is. Rooting is not violating ToS. Jailbreaking is. Rooting actually works on the Android phone, Jailbreaking is (currently) a half solution.

Either way, rooting/jailbreaking WILL invalidate warranties. End of story, don't try and claim it's any different.
post #176 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by tawilson View Post

Under the same conditions? If you constantly try and manage Wi-Fi, bluetooth, screen etc. on an Android device I'm sure you can get close, but if you leave iOS/Android devices with Wi-Fi on permanently, bluetooth off, screen at half-brightness and make general usage over a day the iOS device WILL last longer, fact!

To be perfectly fair it depends on what you use your smartphone for. If it's primarily as a phone with only rare web browsing there are several Android smartphones that might last a bit (or a lot) longer between charges than an iPhone.

Apple has done an admirable job with power management for generally very good battery performance. A blanket statement that iPhones will always have better battery life than an Android phone isn't accurate.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Smartphone11/351
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post #177 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

To be perfectly fair it depends on what you use your smartphone for. If it's primarily as a phone with only rare web browsing there are several Android smartphones that might last a bit (or a lot) longer between charges than an iPhone.

Apple has done an admirable job with power management for generally very good battery performance. A blanket statement that iPhones will always have better battery life than an Android phone isn't accurate.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Smartphone11/351

Fair comment I suppose, but if you use it as a smartphone, the iPhone will win.
post #178 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo42 View Post

There a million ways to compare battery life on devices. I will just plainly state that my 4S battery life is PATHETIC (for an Apple device). Also I'm not constantly playing on the phone in a way which would cause drain. I have iCloud and most notifications off. Hopefully there is a fix soon.

From everything I've seen and read that isn't true. There seem to be plenty of iPhone 4Ses that are doing just fine with their battery life and are well within the stated specs of the device.

From what I've seen there is a large percentage of 4Ses with the battery issue. An issue that is firmware based which may be affecting certain 4S builds or perhaps certain usage cases (i..e:, used with a certain dB range or certain frequency band).

My reasoning: If you look at the iOS 5.0 updates for the 4S the firmware is rapidly changing, has shown some negative affects for some users updating, is a new chip from Qualcomm, and is the first world-mode chip I've seen in a smartphone with anywhere near this many radios. It doesn't excuse Apple but it does explain it.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #179 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

To be perfectly fair it depends on what you use your smartphone for. If it's primarily as a phone with only rare web browsing there are several Android smartphones that might last a bit (or a lot) longer between charges than an iPhone.

Apple has done an admirable job with power management for generally very good battery performance. A blanket statement that iPhones will always have better battery life than an Android phone isn't accurate.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Smartphone11/351

1) The only AnandTech benchmark you choose was for wireless hotspots, bypassing the more useful metrics that are commonly used on smartphones. That was deliberate yet it hurts your argument because the iPhone running at 800MHz/512MB besting other smartphones running at 1Ghz or more shows that vendors are doing pretty well with Android as it is seeing as how most batteries aren't 25% larger than in the iPhone.

2) iOS, WP7, Bada, and other mobile OSes designed around very specific HW will always have an intrinsic advantage over OSes that are designed with very general HW requirements. You can check AnandTech for the battery life differences between Windows and Mac OS for a comparison.

"The real haunted empire?  It's the New York Times." ~SockRolid

"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #180 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

1) The only AnandTech benchmark you choose was for wireless hotspots, bypassing the more useful metrics that are commonly used on smartphones.

I didn't choose any particular usage metric. They're all there to browse thru. Talk time specifically tends to favor some android phones over the iPhone line. Wifi hotspot benchmarks just happened to be the last one in the list and the last one I looked at, thus part of the link.
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post #181 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I didn't choose any particular usage metric. They're all there to browse thru. Talk time specifically tends to favor some android phones over the iPhone line. Wifi hotspot benchmarks just happened to be the last one in the list and the last one I looked at, thus part of the link.

And yet, that doesn't have anything to do with the fact that a major Android handset will get zero features from the latest version of Android because the manufacturer won't be offering any upgrade, at all.
post #182 of 193
According to Slashgear, Samsung is reconsidering it's decision not to offer ICS for the original S series smartphones. With the high-profile attention their original poorly-conceived announcement got, this isn't a big surprise if true.

http://www.slashgear.com/samsung-and...view-27204635/
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post #183 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

According to Slashgear, Samsung is reconsidering it's decision not to offer ICS for the original S series smartphones. With the high-profile attention their original poorly-conceived announcement got, this isn't a big surprise if true.

http://www.slashgear.com/samsung-and...view-27204635/

Nice! I wonder if they are considering removing any of their code or if this potential update is predicated on their ability to reduce the memory footprint as is.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #184 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Nice! I wonder if they are considering removing any of their code or if this potential update is predicated on their ability to reduce the memory footprint as is.

Actually, it's just an empty PR statement most likely to escape the heat. They'll study it, declare they tried everything they could, then say, no, it's really not possible.
post #185 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

According to Slashgear, Samsung is reconsidering it's decision not to offer ICS for the original S series smartphones. With the high-profile attention their original poorly-conceived announcement got, this isn't a big surprise if true.

http://www.slashgear.com/samsung-and...view-27204635/

Yeah it's great what the power of the internet can do. http://penny-arcade.com/2011/12/26/just-wow1

The update ends on a pretty awesome note too
post #186 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Actually, it's just an empty PR statement most likely to escape the heat. They'll study it, declare they tried everything they could, then say, no, it's really not possible.

I'm not so sure it's empty. They have enough of these high-end devices in circulation that I think the amount of effort likely needed compared to the potential of retention via customer support and satisfaction is likely well in their favour. I think they likely did a blanket dismissal of any phones that fell below a certain specification (in this case less than 1GB RAM) and then thought about that demarcation a little more closely for this model.

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"There is no rule that says the best phones must have the largest screen." ~RoundaboutNow

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post #187 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssquirrel View Post

yeah it's great what the power of the internet can do. http://penny-arcade.com/2011/12/26/just-wow1

the update ends on a pretty awesome note too

rofl!!
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post #188 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post

I'm sorry, but I've got to go with Gatorguy and say that it's your pride and arrogance that won't simply let it be said that the iPhone 3GS hardware can support Siri and that it is Apple's decision to keep it from 3GS. You're the one who felt the need to move the goal posts and say it's on the server side. Sorry, but the Siri servers ARE NOT part of the 3GS hardware.

BUT they are big part of the Siri. After all Siri is a service not just an app on the phone. Maybe they will start expanding the userbase after the beta phase to other iphones after all it COULD happen!?!? We will see sooner or later wont we? I think they would have done it if they could have handled the volume that this would entail.

After all this would be another spike in Googles coffin (and androids)
post #189 of 193
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Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Yesterday at a Christmas party I had a "business analyst" brag about his work with "solutions architects" and "enterprise deployment" and how everything in the "enterprise" is Java blah blah blah... At this stage I'm really disliking this guy, something's not adding up with his attitude.

Then bingo... He told me it's now down between .Net and Java but a significant amount of "enterprise" is doing Java because Java is cross-platform, and even runs on iPad, iPhone and mobile phones [presumably including Android].

3. Java is cross-platform and runs on everything including phones and tablets and iPad. What do you say to this. And this guy is a "business analyst" for one of the largest government utilities in the state!

Its even funnyer that Android has an incompatible java or really just bastard java. Whether you can actually call that java is going to be settled in court by judges it seems. Oracles case seems quite good on the outcome. It will be definate one of the big news what happens in 2012 between Oracle and Google.
post #190 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

According to Slashgear, Samsung is reconsidering it's decision not to offer ICS for the original S series smartphones. With the high-profile attention their original poorly-conceived announcement got, this isn't a big surprise if true.

http://www.slashgear.com/samsung-and...view-27204635/

Gatorguy, in the spirit of the new year, I would like to say keep on posting. I know I've accused you of certain things, which if incorrect, I apologise.

In any case, I think your input is pertinent. I've targeted learning iPad programming in 2012 so I won't have time to follow Android stuff but I don't want to be blindsided.

Can you provide insight into how close or far away the Kindle Fire is from Android 4.0? When will Samsung Galaxy SII get 4.0? I know I can Google all this but your posts provide this info quite efficiently.

What is the state of Google's Siri competitor? Is it available as an API? If not, when?

What happened to Honeycomb? Seems like it was much-hyped, then it came, then now it's all about ICS. Who's actually running Honeycomb? I know it's tablet-only or something, right?

What are the rumours about the Galaxy S3? When will the Galaxy Tab get ICS? Is ICS only for smartphones at this stage?
post #191 of 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Gatorguy, in the spirit of the new year, I would like to say keep on posting. I know I've accused you of certain things, which if incorrect, I apologise.

In any case, I think your input is pertinent. I've targeted learning iPad programming in 2012 so I won't have time to follow Android stuff but I don't want to be blindsided.

1. Can you provide insight into how close or far away the Kindle Fire is from Android 4.0? 2. When will Samsung Galaxy SII get 4.0? I know I can Google all this but your posts provide this info quite efficiently.

3. What is the state of Google's Siri competitor? Is it available as an API? If not, when?

4. What happened to Honeycomb? Seems like it was much-hyped, then it came, then now it's all about ICS. Who's actually running Honeycomb? I know it's tablet-only or something, right?

5. What are the rumours about the Galaxy S3? When will the Galaxy Tab get ICS? Is ICS only for smartphones at this stage?

Actually I feel I'm more aware of what Apple offers than Google, and certainly more in touch with some of the rumors that float around about the iOS platform. I'll take a stab at answering as best I can tho. Trust me, I have no secret inside sources so this is all stuff anyone could find on the web with a bit of research. I'm no expert.

1. I'm probably not much help with the Kindle fork. I've never used it and have no Kindle devices. I have read there are "jailbroken" Fire's using ICS and with access to the Android Market.

AFAIK, Amazon simply built on top of (probably) Gingerbread, much like Samsung (Touchwiz) built on top of stock Android versions. Amazon just got more serious about it, even redirecting search results to an Amazon landing rather than Google. They've caught a lot of flack for that and reportedly ceasing after several privacy concerns were lodged. I haven't seen anything anywhere that would indicate Amazon couldn't use ICS if they wanted to. The source code is already released by Google, and even Apple could make use of it if they wished. I haven't seen anyone indicate that Amazon themselves would benefit from ICS tho, particularly with the work required to change the OS from the current.

2. Samsung announced only "the first quarter of 2012", so it could be as late as March.

3. There's been nothing official published or announced on a Siri competitor AFAIK so I don't imagine there are API's available.

4. As you mentioned, Honeycomb was intended as a bridge OS for tablets until ICS was finished. Samsung, Motorola, Toshiba and others wanted an OS more appropriate for their tablet plans but didn't have the patience to wait for Google to complete Android 4.0. In any case that source code was released around the same time as ICS, so it's now available if anyone felt the need to use it. With that now mentioned, there was a rumor that Samsung would use Honeycomb to cull specific features to upgrade their old original Galaxy S via a "value pack". One developer wrote that Google doesn't permit ICS to be offered in pieces, it's an either/or. Si it could be surmised that the only way for Samsung to avoid removing Touchwiz altogether is to use an old Android version to pull features from. Honeycomb would be kinda/sorta close to ICS in some areas I guess. Whether Samsung really has any plans to do such I have no idea.

5. There's all kinds of rumors about what the S3 will offer, just as there is for some Apple products. Some of those that claim they're in the know say it will be be announced at MWC in a few weeks and include ICS (of course)a quadcore Exynos processor of their own design (of course again), true 720P Super-Amoled display (the one without Pentile), a 12MP main camera and a fairly tight integration with 3D, including interconnectivity with 3D smart-tv's. That last part is kind of interesting in light of a Google patent app early this year for accessing TV search and control functions via voice (think Siri/Apple TV), perhaps using Android-compatible devices like a smartphone.

I don't think anything has changed about ICS being used for both tablets and phones. Perhaps they won't get serious about that until the Medfield tablets start shipping. I don't know.

Anyway, that's all I've got, but perhaps it's helped at least a little bit.
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post #192 of 193
OK thanks, this is quite useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Actually I feel I'm more aware of what Apple offers than Google, and certainly more in touch with some of the rumors that float around about the iOS platform. I'll take a stab at answering as best I can tho. Trust me, I have no secret inside sources so this is all stuff anyone could find on the web with a bit of research. I'm no expert.

1. I'm probably not much help with the Kindle fork. I've never used it and have no Kindle devices. I have read there are "jailbroken" Fire's using ICS and with access to the Android Market.

AFAIK, Amazon simply built on top of (probably) Gingerbread, much like Samsung (Touchwiz) built on top of stock Android versions. Amazon just got more serious about it, even redirecting search results to an Amazon landing rather than Google. They've caught a lot of flack for that and reportedly ceasing after several privacy concerns were lodged. I haven't seen anything anywhere that would indicate Amazon couldn't use ICS if they wanted to. The source code is already released by Google, and even Apple could make use of it if they wished. I haven't seen anyone indicate that Amazon themselves would benefit from ICS tho, particularly with the work required to change the OS from the current.

2. Samsung announced only "the first quarter of 2012", so it could be as late as March.

3. There's been nothing official published or announced on a Siri competitor AFAIK so I don't imagine there are API's available.

4. As you mentioned, Honeycomb was intended as a bridge OS for tablets until ICS was finished. Samsung, Motorola, Toshiba and others wanted an OS more appropriate for their tablet plans but didn't have the patience to wait for Google to complete Android 4.0. In any case that source code was released around the same time as ICS, so it's now available if anyone felt the need to use it. With that now mentioned, there was a rumor that Samsung would use Honeycomb to cull specific features to upgrade their old original Galaxy S via a "value pack". One developer wrote that Google doesn't permit ICS to be offered in pieces, it's an either/or. Si it could be surmised that the only way for Samsung to avoid removing Touchwiz altogether is to use an old Android version to pull features from. Honeycomb would be kinda/sorta close to ICS in some areas I guess. Whether Samsung really has any plans to do such I have no idea.

5. There's all kinds of rumors about what the S3 will offer, just as there is for some Apple products. Some of those that claim they're in the know say it will be be announced at MWC in a few weeks and include ICS (of course)a quadcore Exynos processor of their own design (of course again), true 720P Super-Amoled display (the one without Pentile), a 12MP main camera and a fairly tight integration with 3D, including interconnectivity with 3D smart-tv's. That last part is kind of interesting in light of a Google patent app early this year for accessing TV search and control functions via voice (think Siri/Apple TV), perhaps using Android-compatible devices like a smartphone.

I don't think anything has changed about ICS being used for both tablets and phones. Perhaps they won't get serious about that until the Medfield tablets start shipping. I don't know.

Anyway, that's all I've got, but perhaps it's helped at least a little bit.
post #193 of 193
As mentioned I will try to learn iPad programming in 2012. I'll be pretty much following AppleInsider and not many other sites... [Edit: besides dev-related sites]

No time and don't want to be distracted. It's iPad, iPad2, iOS 4,5, Siri API and iPad3~iOS6 all the way in 2012.

So I won't be checking out Giz, Kotaku, Engadget and all that. I won't even be checking out gaming websites, I'll just get whatever looks good at the game shop for my Xbox360 whenever I finish a game.

My iPhone 4S is doing quite well and I've got insurance for it so will hang on to that until the iPhone 5.

But I do want to keep an eye on happenings in the Android world, I don't want to just stick my head in the sand... At the same time I don't want to be expending time looking at all kinds of Android things unless they appear to be gaining reasonable momentum ~ specifically Android tablets running ICS and then Android 5.0... Kindle Fire looks like something's happening, but I don't know if I will think about that too much for now, though I would like to know how it's going from time to time.

I don't mean to paint Android in a derogatory light, just that it does seem a little confusing to me at this stage. I know I've moaned and groaned about Android in the past, but the fact is, is that it is out there, and stuff is happening, and it is one of Google's biggest thrusts now.

At the end of the day, the web stuff will put food on my table but in five years as I approach my 40's I want to have a grip on this tablet stuff. It's a fast moving field, and the momentum of iPad should see tablets through to 2015 quite well. (I mean, they have been outselling Macs by a few multiples for quite a while now) ...But my focus will be to get some sort of a grip on iPad coding, then if there are compelling reasons, port to Android. But I'm starting simple.

Keep us updated Gatorguy...

While I have been brutal in talking about Android in the past, I think ideology should always be put aside whenever possible. I'm going to try putting it aside, anyways, FWIW, it is New Year's after all.
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