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Argentina blocks iPhone sales in bid to strengthen economy - Page 3

post #81 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by grblade View Post

Oh, so THIS is why Nazis took refuge in Argentina. Because they're freedom-limiting fascists. How about letting your people decide for themselves what they'd like to purchase?!

what do you know about argentina more than wikipedia says?
post #82 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I rather like the Argentinian people and culture. Have you ever been there? The cities remind me of Europe. They also have excellent food and wine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grblade View Post

Oh, so THIS is why Nazis took refuge in Argentina. Because they're freedom-limiting fascists. How about letting your people decide for themselves what they'd like to purchase?!

I quoted two unrelated posts that are...related
post #83 of 121
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Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

You quoted me twice? I'm touched. How sweet.

poor baby....
post #84 of 121
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Originally Posted by success View Post

I quoted two unrelated posts that are...related

may be, but am not writing stupid things...
post #85 of 121
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Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

You have to wonder if the folks behind this actually understand international law. It almost sounds like a back room attempt at extortion by the mob.

hahahahaha!
post #86 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by professorsteve View Post

Blocking the iphone imports is clearly a violation of international trade law. The Obama Administration should lodge a lawsuit against Argentina at the World Trade Organization

Are you serious?
post #87 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by APPLEBIRD View Post


Black market will be awesome down in that third world hellhole of a country.

take your head out of your ass and open your eyes. The US of A is a hell hole of a country as well. If it keeps going down the road it's going, it too will become third world. Then how are you going to buy iPhones? With your Social Security check that Obama is trying to rob you of to pay down the $15 trillion debt.
post #88 of 121
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Originally Posted by ghostface147 View Post

No, it's stupid. When you buy things, you support your economy, whether it be a cell contract, some local accessory shop with ugly cases at a pulga....whatever. I'd tell Argentina to go F themselves and tell them to F Messi as well.

YOU LEAVE Messi OUT OF THIS!!! NO SOUP FOR YOU!!!

That said, 3rd World Countries gonna 3rd World.

It's sad, really. 3rd World is an attitude, and Argentina is showing it now.
post #89 of 121
So tell me again why Toyota, Honda, BMW and Mercedes had to build factories here in the USA? Because our labor is cheaper than in Asia or eastern Europe? I don't think so.

Oh yeah, and why does Boeing have to build parts of the new 787 in a dozen different countries? You think it's cheap shipping huge parts of planes around the world?

Every country does this. Some with more grace than others....

Full disclosure - I love Argentina. I've spent many many months there driving around the country, meeting the wonderful people, seeing the beautiful scenery, enjoying the fantastic food and wine. And just about everything related to technology or banking there is ridiculously complicated, especially for a foreigner. Still love the place though.
post #90 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

No, it's not time for that. Everyone loses when protection increases. Small numbers lose when trade happens, and the majority gain far more.

Protectionism works in China but long term it fails and it would fail in the short run too if the US retaliated against China.
post #91 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

You're clearly confused, on that we agree.

No, everybody does not complain about how Apple has no domestic manufacturing. The same people who complain about that also think this is a great idea. You can't take a group of people who don't understand economics and claim that they are both sides of a debate. Those are the idiots. The people who understand how the world works are trashing Argentina and defending Apple for not manufacturing in the USA. Everyone benefits when companies produce their good as efficiently as possible, regardless of a line on a map. Everyone suffers when politicians get involved in corporate decisions, without exception.

I was with you until the very last sentence. Regulationsn exist for many consumer protection reasons. If you don't have some baseline standard that protects consumers from predatory corporations, you will have a large segment of people afraid to spend their cash and adoption of new technology would be much lower lowering both productivity and wealth.
post #92 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Exactly, therein lies the stupidity of anti trade practices like this, unless they turn into a a closed society entirely people will buy elsewhere, the demand may even increase (you always want what you can't have even more). We simply sell more here in the US and Argentina loses the ability to have Apple Stores and all sorts of spin off revenues!

I have to think this will be re thought ...

That's a good point. Think of the money that could be brought in from the retail stores.
post #93 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrmtrk View Post

So tell me again why Toyota, Honda, BMW and Mercedes had to build factories here in the USA? Because our labor is cheaper than in Asia or eastern Europe? I don't think so.

Oh yeah, and why does Boeing have to build parts of the new 787 in a dozen different countries? You think it's cheap shipping huge parts of planes around the world?

Every country does this. Some with more grace than others....

Full disclosure - I love Argentina. I've spent many many months there driving around the country, meeting the wonderful people, seeing the beautiful scenery, enjoying the fantastic food and wine. And just about everything related to technology or banking there is ridiculously complicated, especially for a foreigner. Still love the place though.

Actually, no ... this is COMPLETELY different than the examples you cited. What you are describing is a country placing a domestic production clause to the lifting of a tariff on a product. Basically what it does is make a foreign branded product to be sold for a cheaper price if the company is willing to produce at least some of the components, or the entire product, in the country. That ... is completely normal.

What Argentina has done has been to completely BAN the sale of an item, with the caveat the only way lift that ban is to produce it in country. It's basically the international trade equivalent of blackmail/extortion. That's completely different that saying, "you can sell a product that is foreign produced in our country, but we'll place tariffs on it." At least in the latter situation the product is still available for purchase ...

It's especially troubling because Argentina placing a ban on products unless those companies produce them in country is a direct violation of WTO and Mercosul conventions -- of which Argentina is a signatory and a member.
post #94 of 121
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Originally Posted by zeromeus View Post

Maybe Apple should just BUY Argentina and.... name it Steve Jobs!

"Designed by Apple in Steve Jobs. Assembled in Steve Jobs."

Or Apple should buy Argentina and name it APPLE.

"Designed by Apple in Apple. Assembled in Apple."

The entire business can take place in that country and EVERY Apple job will belong to its citizen.

Sadly, this is so true. Ironically, it also refers to countries in Europe. There was a documentary on Ireland that had me almost in tears. Bl**dy second potato famine, it is.

With Apple's cash reserves they can buy a country or two. They don't even have to use up all their cash reserves, they just need to refinance the debt and voila! Free country for you!
post #95 of 121
I've never been to South America, I'm sure there are beautiful parts.

The issue I am most offended by is that this is standard 3rd-world thinking.

What? Tons of iPhones coming in? Ban them, that'll teach them!

Achievement: Zero
Grey/Black Market: 200%

Now. Think about this... What's the value (not just revenue or profit) for iOS and iOS (web-app) related industries? A heck of a lot more than you'd get from low-wage manufacturing. The Argentinian government, in this case, is looking at their butt instead of in front of them.

I've complained at length previously about Malaysia, and 3rd world is really, a state of mind. The facts, figures and attitudes only differ by a bit, but it makes a big difference in the big picture, long-term outlook of a country. Just like the genetic difference between ape and humans is just a bit, yet it makes a huge difference. And I'm not just talking about non-Caucasian countries, Scotland, the Irish Isle, Spain, Greece and Italy are all going to have an entire "lost generation" ~ we're talking 30% or more unemployment for those under 25. The US is not far behind, 20% youth unemployment.

http://www.economist.com/node/21528614



In the next 20 years, what industries are going to be most important? Manufacturing? Or IT. Fossil Fuels? Yes, but also renewables dovetailing behind it as energy costs rise. Argiculture? Important, but more for self-sustenance of a country.

At the unemployment centres in the UK, across Europe, the Western world and the third world, what skills should we be teaching them? How to make the cheapest crap at the cheapest prices? Microsoft Word? Or web, iOS, Android and real knowledge-economy skills?

Even Vietnam now is pulling in quite a bit of IT outsourcing. Vietnam, not Argentina, Peru, or Colombia.

Brazil managed to get a manufacturing deal. This looks like Argentina wanting a piece of the pie, but to go up against not just China but Brazil as well, while restricting your own people from becoming more skilled, is... just tragic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xtrmtrk View Post

So tell me again why Toyota, Honda, BMW and Mercedes had to build factories here in the USA? Because our labor is cheaper than in Asia or eastern Europe? I don't think so.

Oh yeah, and why does Boeing have to build parts of the new 787 in a dozen different countries? You think it's cheap shipping huge parts of planes around the world?

Every country does this. Some with more grace than others....

Full disclosure - I love Argentina. I've spent many many months there driving around the country, meeting the wonderful people, seeing the beautiful scenery, enjoying the fantastic food and wine. And just about everything related to technology or banking there is ridiculously complicated, especially for a foreigner. Still love the place though.
post #96 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Apple should definitely not build any plants there.

So iPhones are banned in Argentina, because of their fascist rules? So what. Apple doesn't need Argentina.

Apple can't just go around accommodating the demands of every third world country on the planet.

Build plants here or else we ban your phone! Sounds like a dictator run, fascist country! Let Apple pull out of Argentina completely! It'll be too bad for any Argentinian Apple fans, but blame your pathetic country for that, not Apple.


I agree. Argentinians can go to Brazil or Chile to get iPhones and get taxed there; then snugle it to Argentina and sell it at 10 times the price. Brilliant. In the mean time, Brazilians and Chileans and others will make a killing.
post #97 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

That math assumes that sales to Argentines will drop to zero otherwise. Totally false. Argentina can't prevent phones from streaming in over its borders. This law will only enrich those willing to break the law and using money from those who can afford a premium price, which you would THINK would be two unintended consequences. How a politician cannot see them coming when enacting this kind of stupid protectionism is beyond me.

Actually that's not true. I assume the politicians know what will happen, but they assume that their constituents are as uninformed as many of the posters on this board about basic economics.

we have a winner!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post

Except for brief, isolated periods of rationality, Argentina is South America's decades-long poster child for economic mismanagement. As it is elsewhere, the iPhone is a game-changer and enormously popular. That makes it the easy whipping boy for Argentinian demagogues looking to hoodwink their citizens with the big lie that "high-priced luxury imports" are what's bankrupting the country. There's no doubt that hard currency in private hands is fleeing the country, but it's not because of imports. If you're an Argentine citizen trying to protect your wealth and living under a government that you can't trust, what would you do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

..... everybody does not complain about how Apple has no domestic manufacturing. The same people who complain about that also think this is a great idea. You can't take a group of people who don't understand economics and claim that they are both sides of a debate. Those are the idiots. The people who understand how the world works are trashing Argentina and defending Apple for not manufacturing in the USA. Everyone benefits when companies produce their good as efficiently as possible, regardless of a line on a map. Everyone suffers when politicians get involved in corporate decisions, without exception.

Both the above are so true. If I was Argentinean I would be depressed. All the time. Or seeking to emigrate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by professorsteve View Post

Blocking the iphone imports is clearly a violation of international trade law. The Obama Administration should lodge a lawsuit against Argentina at the World Trade Organization

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

You have to wonder if the folks behind this actually understand international law. It almost sounds like a back room attempt at extortion by the mob.

If Argentina is a signatory to the WTO Obama *could* take Argentina to the WTO, but why bother? It would cause an international ruckus (big bad Amerikkka picking on the little guy) and in the end who cares? Argentineans get their iphones on the black market, the crime lords get rich, the argentinean politicians continue to blame TEH EEVILL international corporations as the reason why their economy is in the toilet, and Yanks get to continue to not care about the stupid Argys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Txomin View Post

Again? Las Islas Malvinas were invaded by the brits, kicking all the argentinians out.. Inform yourself before making stupid comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Mmmmm stupid comments eh? Are you sure Argentina existed as a country when the islands were first settled by Brits? The Brits settled those islands in 1690. Meanwhile Argentina was established as a legal, federal state in 1853-1861. So where did those 'Argentinians' come from in 1690 that you say were kicked out? Perhaps you are confusing Spaniards with Argentinians, in which case the Brits and the Spaniards were kicking each other all over the place in 1690 but I hate to break it to you, there were no Argentinians at the time the islands were settled by Brits. The correct name is therefore, The Falkland Islands.

Damn but the truth can burn!
It's the heat death of the universe, my friends.
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It's the heat death of the universe, my friends.
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post #98 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaarrrgggh View Post

Argentinia has an addressable smart phone market of around 4-6MM units per year. Let's assume that is $2.5B at retail without tarif, or approximately $500MM in tarif to be collected per year. Assembling the phones in China costs ~$60MM in incremental cost.

The simple question is if the avoided tarif offsets the cost of building a plant and operating it less efficiently than in China. I would expect the per-unit assembly cost to be about 5x (~$60/unit), and the capital cost of the plant to be about $400MM. That pretty much makes it a wash.

The alternative is to just do final assembly and packaging in-country.

Political freedom, economic freedom and free trade are the ultimate and best solution. The rest is pure nonsense trying to game the system for political power . If a society grows to adapt to those conditions, it will triumph.
post #99 of 121
I live in Argentina, and I'm a Mac user.
The whole thing is Bullsh*t. There is a ban on every electronic product that do not put money under the table for the current government. They request a Plant, but it could be ANY plant.
Imagine that Apple ships iPhones to argentina (no local manufacturing whatsoever), and they build in Argentina a local plant to manufacture the box they use to ship the iPhone.... Then it is ok to sell the iPhone in Argentina.

The problem with Apple, is that Apple has pretty boxes, and the others manufacturers (nokia, LG, Samsung, Motorola) ship in a plain brown box.

I know this sounds extremely silly... it is.

I don't care that much about the iPhone, the real problem is the ban on Laptops and desktop. You can only buy on retail stores shitty re-branded Acer / Asus laptops (which spot a local brand) but are only assembled in here (they import the laptops pieces (main board, LCD, case) and they put them together).

If you plan to visit Argentina, bring an iPhone 4S with you, you can sell it for more than twice you paid for it.
post #100 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by professorsteve View Post

Blocking the iphone imports is clearly a violation of international trade law. The Obama Administration should lodge a lawsuit against Argentina at the World Trade Organization

Yeah, it would do Obama lots of good to lodge a lawsuit to force Argentina to buy imported goods from China. I could see the GOP feasting on that.

The ones who need to file are the Chinese. Unfortunately, China violates so many WTO rules it would be trivial for Argentina to block even more imports in one way or the other.

This is hardball and there is nothing wrong with that. What´s wrong is that the move is bad for Argentina´s technological development, so it will cost the country more than it will gain. The sum of many poor policies such as this one results in an uncompetitive economy, which is what they have.

What they should ban are imports of cheap toxic toys and non-RoHS compliant electronics. Ban the obsolete, not the leading edge.

In the 1980´s, virtually all electronics imports had been banned outright. Did it result in growth? Of course not. Local assembly of foreign parts is just importation under another name, but costlier. It just leads to reduced choice and high prices, in exchange for a few assembly jobs. Worse, it stifled software developers, who can add more value than assemblers.

Incredibly, they seem to be heading in the same direction again. Stupid, as I said.
post #101 of 121
Why are countries that speak Spanish so effed up?
post #102 of 121
Hey, guess what, while you're all talking about Argentina as if you even knew where it is located, our lives keep moving on with or without iPhones

The thing is, people here prefers Android phones and BlackBerrys and it's been like that since before the iPhone was first released.

Apple didn't give a shit about Argentina before. It took them a million years to release the iPhone here (3G was the first one), and another million years to release each new version. That was back when there was no importing issues.

People here just don't like iPhones. I'm an iPhone user since the 3GS was released here and I can tell you I only know ONE other person that has an iPhone.

We're the only Latin American country where Android has a bigger marketshare than iOS, and it's not because of the "ban". People here just prefers Androids.



As for learning from old mistakes... our local industry was completely destroyed during the 90's because we imported every thing (it was cheaper to import because of our fake dollar rate).

We won't import a single screw anymore if we can make it here.
post #103 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgardito View Post

I live in Argentina, and I'm a Mac user.
The whole thing is Bullsh*t. There is a ban on every electronic product that do not put money under the table for the current government. They request a Plant, but it could be ANY plant.
Imagine that Apple ships iPhones to argentina (no local manufacturing whatsoever), and they build in Argentina a local plant to manufacture the box they use to ship the iPhone.... Then it is ok to sell the iPhone in Argentina.

The problem with Apple, is that Apple has pretty boxes, and the others manufacturers (nokia, LG, Samsung, Motorola) ship in a plain brown box.

I know this sounds extremely silly... it is.

I don't care that much about the iPhone, the real problem is the ban on Laptops and desktop. You can only buy on retail stores shitty re-branded Acer / Asus laptops (which spot a local brand) but are only assembled in here (they import the laptops pieces (main board, LCD, case) and they put them together).

If you plan to visit Argentina, bring an iPhone 4S with you, you can sell it for more than twice you paid for it.

God... yeah, the boxes... that's it... you're a genius. What a wasted talent...
post #104 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by edgardito View Post

I live in Argentina, and I'm a Mac user.
The whole thing is Bullsh*t. There is a ban on every electronic product that do not put money under the table for the current government. They request a Plant, but it could be ANY plant.
Imagine that Apple ships iPhones to argentina (no local manufacturing whatsoever), and they build in Argentina a local plant to manufacture the box they use to ship the iPhone.... Then it is ok to sell the iPhone in Argentina.

The problem with Apple, is that Apple has pretty boxes, and the others manufacturers (nokia, LG, Samsung, Motorola) ship in a plain brown box.

I know this sounds extremely silly... it is.

I don't care that much about the iPhone, the real problem is the ban on Laptops and desktop. You can only buy on retail stores shitty re-branded Acer / Asus laptops (which spot a local brand) but are only assembled in here (they import the laptops pieces (main board, LCD, case) and they put them together).

If you plan to visit Argentina, bring an iPhone 4S with you, you can sell it for more than twice you paid for it.

How long before Kirchner gone?

And what if they still banned it when iPad plants in Brazil is up? Will Dilma tell Kirchner to knock it off should Brazilian-made Apple goods fall under MERCUSOR? No harm's done for it will be one scary woman against another.
post #105 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by ktappe View Post

Why not whip up a small iPhone plant in Argentina? In fact, Apple should be moving to spread its manufacturing so it doesn't have a single point of failure in case some big disaster (earthquake?) hits China. Spread the risk.

First Brazil. Now Argentina says make them here or don't sell them here. If Apple caves to this, what's to stop every country from demanding the same thing? It'll happen.
post #106 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by flexo View Post

Hey, guess what, while you're all talking about Argentina as if you even knew where it is located, our lives keep moving on with or without iPhones

The thing is, people here prefers Android phones and BlackBerrys and it's been like that since before the iPhone was first released.

Apple didn't give a shit about Argentina before. It took them a million years to release the iPhone here (3G was the first one), and another million years to release each new version. That was back when there was no importing issues.

People here just don't like iPhones. I'm an iPhone user since the 3GS was released here and I can tell you I only know ONE other person that has an iPhone.

We're the only Latin American country where Android has a bigger marketshare than iOS, and it's not because of the "ban". People here just prefers Androids.



As for learning from old mistakes... our local industry was completely destroyed during the 90's because we imported every thing (it was cheaper to import because of our fake dollar rate).

We won't import a single screw anymore if we can make it here.

You might want to read your own chart before you post.

Yeah, Android has 33% and Apple has 28%. So that explains why you've never seen another iPhone around right? Oh and that BB that you say people just prefer? 3%? Wow. Clearly you're right about your people Duh

Also that economic theory you stated at the end is just clueless. Talk about lurching from one failed government interference policy to another. Just open it up! Then the markets magically push every country to do what they do best and stop doing what they do poorly or expensively. Stupid.
post #107 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairthrope View Post

How long before Kirchner gone?

And what if they still banned it when iPad plants in Brazil is up? Will Dilma tell Kirchner to knock it off should Brazilian-made Apple goods fall under MERCUSOR? No harm's done for it will be one scary woman against another.

Brasil is the 6th largest economy in the world. They have a really strong industry. MERCOSUR is an strategic alliance here in the south, but the situation is tense due to the inclusion of Venezuela in Mercosur. It is sponsored by Argentina, but Venezuela is not a Full-Member of Mercosur, mainly because Brasil opposes to it.

I hope iPhones and iPads are built in Brasil, because they will get easily in here. Brasil has a lot of leverage, and they can easily manufacture iPhones. Argentina represent a VERY SMALL market for anyone if you compare it to Brasil.

CFK (Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner) has a lot of support in here (54%) mainly because they put hundreds of millions in scholarships, financial assistance to the poor, health care .... Most of the people in here can not afford iPhones ( Mobile Operators used to sell them for nearly 600u$s with a two year contract) and they see this kind of governments acts as a positive thing.
I guess people in Argentina still didn't realize how small we are (only 40M people) in a worldwide economy, how little leverage and barging power we have.

I will always believe that every Argentinian has a Texans inside (we believe we are the greatest in everything... we have the greatest wonders of nature, the greatest food, the most beautiful women, etc).
post #108 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by flexo View Post

God... yeah, the boxes... that's it... you're a genius. What a wasted talent...

Yup, Boxes. I work for an Electronic Company who assembles Phone Chargers. They manufacture the Chargers so Motorola can sell phones in here. It is a great factory... 10 employee take a PCB with all the components soldered to it imported from China, two pieces of plastic (also imported from China), glue them together and put it in the box with the phone and the manual (the manual is local printed thanks to god).

Thanks CFK, you created a total of 10 highly qualified electronic jobs.

On the other side, I teach at a local university, and have 20 students (all old enough to vote) taking a basic computers course, which they keep failing because they receive a scholarship as long as they take the course.

We have a bigger problem in here than iPhones....
post #109 of 121
As edgardito said, we have far more concerning problems here than a ban on apple products. Apple won't care about losing this market and probably 97% of our country won't give a damn about not having apple stuff. They will prolly buy stuff ovearseas as we always do when it comes to this kind of things.

Let me give you an example, if you want to buy a laptop here, let's say a Sony Vaio. You'll pay twice as much than you pay in the US. So if you're talking about a US$1400 laptop, you end up paying twice that amount.
roundtrip ticket to miami = US$700-900
Do the math...

The only thing is bypassing customs... oh right, you can get the guy that selled you the laptop to give you a copy of the bill for US$300 and you pay nothing at all.

About the falklands/malvinas occupation: what can I say? they were occupied by Spain till 1811, they left and we ocuppied the islands in 1820 till they were invaded by the brits in 1833. You figure it out.

About the Falklands/Malvinas war, try reading some books like "No Picnic" by Julian Thompson or "One Hundred Days: Memoirs of the Falklands Battle Group Commander" by Sandy Woodward.
post #110 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by skottichan View Post

We need to stop using the incorrect term "Third World Nation", I believe what most of you are looking for is "Least Developed Nations", Third World was a Cold War term for nations not allied with NATO (First World) and the Soviet Bloc (Second World).

I, too, wonder at referring to Argentina as part of the third world. My understanding of the "worlds" is the Old World (Europe), the New World (the Americas), and the Third World (the rest, mostly former European colonies which remain economic backwaters). Argentina certainly has its share of old world-level institutions, but, by economic standards, it has slid since the currency collapse several years back.

Still, protectionism is unlikely to fix the country's woes.
post #111 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by cameronj View Post

Ugh... so much wrong. I'll just give you some reading material for your ps: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...PP)_per_capita

Your economy is worse than just about all european countries.

Take econ 101. Please.

"High inflation has been a weakness of the Argentine economy for decades.[64] Officially hovering around 9% since 2006, inflation has been privately estimated at over 20%,[65] becoming a contentious issue again. The urban income poverty rate has dropped to 18% as of mid-2008, a third of the peak level observed in 2002, though still above the level prior to 1976.[66][67] Income distribution, having improved since 2002, is still considerably unequal.[68][69]
Argentina ranks 105th out of 178 countries in the Transparency International's Corruption Perceptions Index for 2010.[70] Reported problems include both government and private-sector corruption, the latter of which include money laundering, trafficking in narcotics and contraband, and tax evasion.[71] The Kirchner administration responded to the Global financial crisis of 20082009 with a record public-works program, new tax cuts and subsidies,[72][73] and the transfer of private pensions to the social security system. Private pension plans, which required growing subsidies to cover, were nationalized to shed a budgetary drain as well as to finance high government spending and debt obligations.[74][75]"

From Wiki


So you mean that the Argentinian economy is double so good than the Chinese, and the American 6 or 7 times as good? I think you should compare other things, like the growth of the economy, the cost of living and compared economy, HDI, etc... Argentina has a 9% economy growth in USD, but still is not really well distributed. What's the American economical growth for 2011?
post #112 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by msimpson View Post

Occupy Argentina.

If anyone does at least teach them that using your hands to score goals in football (soccer) is not the correct way to do it.
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post #113 of 121
That'll backfire. It's unrealistic. Imagine if every country in the world demanded local plants/factories be built in order to sell a product there - it's unsustainable, there's just too many countries on the globe to make that work. That's counterproductive to international trade. Do they not understand all the businesses they're hurting in their country by blocking sales of any particular item?

...Of course if Argentina follows through on this idea, what will happen is a company will set up a one room "plant" where they'll have a guy who receives all the devices via FedEx, puts them in individual boxes and ships 'em out again. Viola! Local factory. I visualize 5 mile long "office parks" with thousands of 10'x10' "offices" each employing 1 guy stuffing boxes all day long dotting the countryside.
post #114 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by mytdave View Post

That'll backfire. It's unrealistic. Imagine if every country in the world demanded local plants/factories be built in order to sell a product there - it's unsustainable, there's just too many countries on the globe to make that work. That's counterproductive to international trade. Do they not understand all the businesses they're hurting in their country by blocking sales of any particular item?

...Of course if Argentina follows through on this idea, what will happen is a company will set up a one room "plant" where they'll have a guy who receives all the devices via FedEx, puts them in individual boxes and ships 'em out again. Viola! Local factory. I visualize 5 mile long "office parks" with thousands of 10'x10' "offices" each employing 1 guy stuffing boxes all day long dotting the countryside.

That's what happens here.

Still, the math is quite simple, if you buy more than what you sell, the difference must come from somewhere.

That's the reason why they ban certain items.

For instance, if you import stuff over here, you must export something for them same amount at least.
BMW had its cars locked at customs for months till they decided to export... i don't remember waht it was.

The reason: trade balance.
post #115 of 121
Sadly, the iPhone is looked as a luxury item in here.

No one gives a tiny rat ass about the ban in here... most people who can afford an iPhone 4S can also afford a roundtrip ticket to Miami or Europe to get one.
It is more important for me that Apple sells no-contract iPhone for $650, than to be able to get it locally.

While RIM is struggling to stay high on the smartphone market with their crappy products and their subsidize message service, in here (Argentina) people buys Blackberrys like crazy because they can send free SMS to each other.

Apple way of doing business won't work in Argentina. Who will pay 5 bucks video rental when they can watch the movie streamed for free at Cuevana.tv (and do not mind about quality).

If you are planning to visit some place for vacationing, come to Argentina... we have lovely places (Falls, Montains, Glaciars,), all climates, a nice meat-based cuisine, but don't even think about buying something retail (like a cellphone, a TV, a Fridge...)
post #116 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post

i guess they can replace the iphones with a boat load of nokia phones.

they've got containers full of them. hurry up!!

or Motorola, Nokia or Samsung..
post #117 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielguas View Post

So you mean that the Argentinian economy is double so good than the Chinese, and the American 6 or 7 times as good? I think you should compare other things, like the growth of the economy, the cost of living and compared economy, HDI, etc... Argentina has a 9% economy growth in USD, but still is not really well distributed. What's the American economical growth for 2011?

Those stats are GDP per head at PPP, that is purchasing power parity. So if American GDP P/C at PPP is $10 and Argentina is $1, an American can buy 10x as many typically priced dinners out, cars on the local market, units of housing, etc.

In other words, GPD per head at PPP is the only relevant number when comparing how various economies are doing. It tells you how well off each citizen is.

Growth in an economy is TOTALLY pointless. For instance, if your country's economy grew 9% last year, did you get 9% more of anything in your life? Did you get a 9% raise?

GDP growth ignores population growth and inflation. If a burger in Argentina went from $1 to $1.06 this year, and your population grew by 5%, then the wealth available to each person in the economy to actually spend fell in the year. Is that the case? I don't know. But I'd rather be rich and be able to buy lots of things than live in a country with fast growing GDP and be very poor.

Here is the list of the fastest growing countries in 2010:
Code:

RankCountryRate
1 Qatar16.272
2 Singapore15.270
3 Paraguay14.400
4 India11.1
5 Republic of China (Taiwan)10.8
6 People's Republic of China10.300
7 Turkmenistan9.222
8 Argentina9.161
9 Sri Lanka9.134
10 Congo, Republic of9.090
11 Zimbabwe9.006
12 Peru8.795
13 Botswana8.562
14 Uzbekistan8.500
15 Uruguay8.468
16 Nigeria8.394
17 Afghanistan8.227
18 Turkey8.200
19 Yemen8.016
20 Ethiopia8.008



Tell me what strikes you about that list, when you compare it to the list of countries with the highest GDP per capita:

Code:

35 Qatar105.999
102 Luxembourg86.645
151 Singapore62.095
121 Norway54.657
76 Hong Kong51.602
26 Brunei49.925
51 United Arab Emirates49.472
56 United States49.055
158 Switzerland44.326
124 Netherlands43.160
11 Austria42.774
157 Sweden42.495
10 Australia42.112
94 Kuwait41.838
34 Canada41.326
82 Ireland40.650
161 Taiwan39.891
83 Iceland39.050
3 Germany38.902
46 Denmark38.605
17 Belgium38.387



Tell me, which one of those lists would you like to be a citizen of? Did you happen to notice that the only country on both lists (Singapore) happens to be a vanguard to laissez faire capitalism?
post #118 of 121
Nope. Back in the late 50's, Nehru of India and Tito of Yugoslavia decided they could get better deals at the UN if they organised a "Non-Aligned Movement". The UN was then split into two virtual blocs, Western vs Soviet. The NAM became the 3rd Bloc, which set up a system of selling their votes as a group to either of the other two. To ensure more amusement, most of the countries in the NAM were also members of "Socialism International", which was financed by the Soviets. To make things easier for the news media to understand, the unofficial designators for the three groups became: 'Western', 'Soviet' and 'Third World'.

Cheers
post #119 of 121
For those who wish to cite a report that Apple would build iPads in Brazil, note that Apple does no manufacturing on it's own: it contracts such to others. Thus the news was that "Foxconn" of China was planning a factory in Brazil to build iPads. Apple's interest would be with costs and quality, but not with the actual factory.
Similarly, if Argentina wishes a factory to build iPhones, they need to find a company which is building iPhones elsewhere, and persuade them to do so in Argentina. Apple isn't fussed either way, they just won't build an Apple factory anywhere.
I'd suggest that investing in an Apple import business in Montevideo would probably be quite profitable, absent interference by the government of Uruguay.

Cheers
post #120 of 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by flexo View Post

Hey, guess what, while you're all talking about Argentina as if you even knew where it is located, our lives keep moving on with or without iPhones

The thing is, people here prefers Android phones and BlackBerrys and it's been like that since before the iPhone was first released.[/IMG]

That's not true at all. The truth is that the carriers prefer Android and BBs, so it has been difficult to get an iPhone for years. The carriers saw how much control Apple exerted in other markets and didn't like that. So they kept low stock and salespeople trained to sell anything but Apple. This is also why the carriers put no pressure on the government. They are happier without iPhones.

In Argentina, Apple should simply have released all the iPhone models unlocked with no carrier, since carrier subsidies were low to nonexistent to begin with, so the phones were also expensive.

Even then, there are plenty of people with iPhones. There are three groups of buyers, IT people, marketers and designers (who already have Apple products), and those wealthy enough to travel regularly abroad. In fact, now that US phones can be bough unlocked, more people can buy them abroad without dealing with jailbreak issues.
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