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Apple wants to offer television subscribers customized channel lineups - Page 3

post #81 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

didn't just affect the channel it was on but also the frequency it was sharing with another channel. This was all last mile stuff.

Regardless of where the bottleneck occurs, in the end, user experience suffers and that is something that the average TV watcher is not going to understand. They will just assume Apple's TV sucks because they can't watch their favorite show without interruption or picture quality issues. Even if it is the ISP's problem, it affects Apples reputation. I think Apple will have to measure the roll out as they have done with other services simply to maintain quality and then slowly launch additional channels as the infrastructure allows.

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post #82 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Regardless of where the bottleneck occurs, in the end, user experience suffers and that is something that the average TV watcher is not going to understand. They will just assume Apple's TV sucks because they can't watch their favorite show without interruption or picture quality issues. Even if it is the ISP's problem, it affects Apples reputation. I think Apple will have to measure the roll out as they have done with other services simply to maintain quality and then slowly launch additional channels as the infrastructure allows.

Only if it's on-demand streaming or only if they don't have content servers in local areas. The first doesn't seem like Jobs "cracking" the TV market and the latter simply doesn't make any sense unless you neither sell nor support shows in those areas.

If you have local servers and the streaming is NOT on-demand, like like with cable/sat then your "hops" are very limited from the local server to the user. This currently isn't much (or any) of an issue for cable companies today.

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post #83 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Technically downstream can have bandwidth issues on digital coax. I first saw it with the movie Gladiator during an action scene with a lot of extra data. It didn't just affect the channel it was on but also the frequency it was sharing with another channel. This was all last mile stuff.

Touchè. But my watching a TV show here in Vancouver on my cable provider won't affect a users net speed in Florida, which it could if I was watching something on an Internet based service.

If we're talking about all channels being streamed on-demand, but I can only see this being done in the same way cable/sat is currently done, by offering most content at the same time across all distributors. That means that the content is fairly local. Likely using Akamai, as previously noted. Last mile could suffer if too many people are accessing that local server for a specific channel but I wouldn't expect anything close to what can happen from too many people accessing a website at once.

Basically what I'm saying is that the Internet is getting crowded, and is only going to get more so without some infrastructure improvements. I would hate to see an Apple TV suffer because of it. Wanting to be able to to ten things, but only being able to do four because of bandwidth restrictions
post #84 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Regardless of where the bottleneck occurs, in the end, user experience suffers and that is something that the average TV watcher is not going to understand. They will just assume Apple's TV sucks because they can't watch their favorite show without interruption or picture quality issues. Even if it is the ISP's problem, it affects Apples reputation. I think Apple will have to measure the roll out as they have done with other services simply to maintain quality and then slowly launch additional channels as the infrastructure allows.

I agree.

But Apple do have some options. Most streaming services shove out a bitstream of pre-encoded data with a fixed bitrate.

Either the connection is adequate - leaving users happy. Or the connection is inadequate and we get constant stalling and buffering.

If Apple are doing this the way I expect, they will be building and compressing a custom bitstream for each customer. They can raise and drop the compression ratio according to what the client device is telling them.

If they do this, the Apple TV picture will degrade - but it won't drop out.

C.
post #85 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maecvs View Post

Basically what I'm saying is that the Internet is getting crowded, and is only going to get more so without some infrastructure improvements. I would hate to see an Apple TV suffer because of it. Wanting to be able to to ten things, but only being able to do four because of bandwidth restrictions

I'm not talking about the "internet" I'm talking about dedicated servers in close proximity to the users that are pushing one channel/show out at a time at a given time. I'm not picturing Mission Impossible 4 hitting Netflix and 50 million people streaming the show from their servers at 50 million different times. I have heard no argument that makes this viable for Apple to "crack" the TV market. In fact the idea of a all channels streaming on-demand like Netflix makes the whole thing sound even more ludicrous than it was years ago.

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post #86 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Only if it's on-demand streaming or only if they don't have content servers in local areas.

It doesn't really make any difference if it is on-demand or not. When average Americans come home from work, they turn on the TV and many times it stays on until midnight. Regardless of what they are watching, ones and zeros are being pushed down the pipe and the pipe has a limitation, more so as the signal makes its way farther from the server. IP protocol requires more switches, more routers, and has more latency than traditional cable. That is the unfortunate reality of today's Internet. Last mile is the killer. Always has been since the popularization of the Internet. Fiber optics greatly increases the capacity but few homes have that option right now.

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post #87 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

$1 per channel per month? I don't see that happening. Remember, you're going for Ã* la carte pricing which means you pay a premium. Lets say right now your cable company has 100,000 customers all subscribing for a particular base channel station. Now you want to pay $1/month for it but it's an unpopular channel and only 5,000 (5%) want to subscribe to it. That means they are only getting $5/month from the cable company. The station was also getting hefty advertisement payments but now that the subscriber rate has dropped advertisers have dropped out completely. The station has gone under because the environment that made it work is no longer supporting it. You've now lost a channel.

I bet people watch plenty of channels and don't realize how much they watch them or that a particular show is on a channel. Can an Ã* la carte method sustain the future of television networks or will umbrella companies have to consolidate shows differently in order to make a buck?

Most of the channels have ads. A channel that can't sustain themselves by their actual audience shouldn't be kept alive by subsidy from people that don't watch it. I think that's a simple bit of market economics that's been subverted by the cable bundling system. If the ads can't sustain it, then what is really going on? Besides, many of the networks you mentioned (I guess I snipped them) already transmit over the air for free.

When I had C-Band satellite, I was paying $20/mo for 20 channels, and I picked at least 10 of them Ã* la carte.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Are you suggesting that IP network traffic would not be affected by 300 million users simultaneously streaming TV content over the Internet? It is not at all like satellite. When a satellite transmits a signal there is no router, there are no hops, there are no switches, there are no firewalls. The Internet is a completely different scenario. Even a busy day on Wall Street can slow down the Internet everywhere in the country.

Is Apple really going to be a bigger draw than Netflix?

Stock exchanges have been adding their own dedicated backbones.
post #88 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

It doesn't really make any difference if it is on-demand or not. When average Americans come home from work, they turn on the TV and many times it stays on until midnight. Regardless of what they are watching, ones and zeros are being pushed down the pipe and the pipe has a limitation, more so as the signal makes its way farther from the server. IP protocol requires more switches, more routers, and has more latency than traditional cable. That is the unfortunate reality of today's Internet. Last mile is the killer. Always has been since the popularization of the Internet. Fiber optics greatly increases the capacity but few homes have that option right now.

it makes all the difference in the world. Once channel is one data stream until you have to split it for each customer at the last mile. This is how TV streaming works on cable. If you have an independent data stream for each user accessing the initial content because all content is on-demand then you double the data for each user accessing at a given time for the entire stream.

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post #89 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Yes I know but a full IPTV implementatin would choke the entire ISP network between the servers and the households. There are no other ways than multicast and distributed servers from inside the ISP network for large amount of clients.

And even with this, it tooks years and billions of dollars to Bell Canada to come up with a system that works.

And on the netflix side, the traffic is already so bad that its now #1 after peer2peer. Bell announced they will no longer nerf peer2peer downloads and are thinking of choking Netflix trafic if the loads on the network affects internet performance of other clients.

storage and computing power is cheap enough where you can put mini servers closer to the customers. you don't have to store all the content there, but stage the most used content on the local segment
post #90 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Most of the channels have ads. A channel that can't sustain themselves by their actual audience shouldn't be kept alive by subsidy from people that don't watch it. I think that's a simple bit of market economics that's been subverted by the cable bundling system. If the ads can't sustain it, then what is really going on? Besides, the networks you mentioned (I guess I snipped them) already transmit over the air for free.

Channels have ads because those channels have eyeballs. If there are no longer people watching those channels then the advertisers go away.

Then you have the issue of local ads for local affiliate stations that offer local businesses ads. This space is reserved by the main operators. So how does Apple support that or does all that go away?


PS: What does any of this have to do with dedicated TV HW? WHy would Apple eschew the obvious choice of an AppleTV that can connect to any HDMI-compatible device to display an image in favour of just 3 TV sets? None of this makes no sense and each article seems to ignore every hurdle that would have to be tackled for Apple to "crack" the TV market. All I see are silly wishful dreams of "Wouldn't it be cool if Apple put the AppleTV in a TV?" and "Wouldn't it be great to only get the channels I watch without all the other crap?".

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post #91 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

I'm not talking about the "internet" I'm talking about dedicated servers in close proximity to the users that are pushing one channel/show out at a time at a given time. I'm not picturing Mission Impossible 4 hitting Netflix and 50 million people streaming the show from their servers at 50 million different times. I have heard no argument that makes this viable for Apple to "crack" the TV market. In fact the idea of a all channels streaming on-demand like Netflix makes the whole thing sound even more ludicrous than it was years ago.

A good question. Will Apple handle everything out of their data farms? I've heard they are building another one.

The problem is, one you enter into an Internet based TV model, everything you watch becomes a VOD event. It's like everyone with a computer starts watching Netflix, every day, in every household, in every town. That's what an Internet based TV is. It's the ultimate video on demand. Even with a server dedicated to every state, it's going to kill Internet traffic for everyone using that much bandwidth in that area. Then, you have to deal with every country you want to introduce the service to.

It's like going into someone house and turning on a tap. No big deal, until you turn on every tap, and run the shower, flush the toilet. The water pressure drops to nothing. That's what this could be like.

As someone suggested earlier, this is probably something that will need to be rollled out very slowly, to see how it works.
post #92 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

it makes all the difference in the world. Once channel is one data stream until you have to split it for each customer at the last mile. This is how TV streaming works on cable. If you have an independent data stream for each user accessing the initial content because all content is on-demand then you double the data for each user accessing at a given time for the entire stream.

I think we have a communication problem. Assuming there is no limit to Apple's server capacity using whatever technology they have such as NC data center Akamai, etc. The local ISP network is going to require much more capacity than it currently has to provide all the data through IP protocol. It is just math. Neighborhood has 'X' homes and has a network capacity of 'Y'. If each home requires 1000 mbs to stream TV content and everyone is requesting that amount of data simultaneously, it will likely exceed 'Y' with today's bandwidth IP network limitations. I don't think you are taking into consideration all the overhead that DNS, IP, switches, routers, etc. affects IP network traffic even if it is only going a thousand meters down the cul-de-sac.

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post #93 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I think we have a communication problem. Assuming there is no limit to Apple's server capacity using whatever technology they have such as NC data center Akamai, etc. The local ISP network is going to require much more capacity than it currently has to provide all the data through IP protocol. It is just math. Neighborhood has 'X' homes and has a network capacity of 'Y'. If each home requires 1000 mbs to stream TV content and everyone is requesting that amount of data simultaneously, it will likely exceed 'Y' with today's bandwidth IP network limitations. I don't think you are taking into consideration all the overhead that DNS, IP, switches, routers, etc. affects IP network traffic even if it is only going a thousand meters down the cul-de-sac.

On the local end that could happen but how much bandwidth are we talking about since we're only talking one channel per TV that would be streaming and the cable companies can handle that already?

This could be mitigated if Apple got with ISPs to allow last mile broadcasts but they would have to work with them which is something I think they have to do anyway, not work around or against them as has been stated here.

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post #94 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

$1 per channel per month? I don't see that happening. Remember, you're going for Ã* la carte pricing which means you pay a premium. Lets say right now your cable company has 100,000 customers all subscribing for a particular base channel station. Now you want to pay $1/month for it but it's an unpopular channel and only 5,000 (5%) want to subscribe to it. That means they are only getting $5/month from the cable company. The station was also getting hefty advertisement payments but now that the subscriber rate has dropped advertisers have dropped out completely. The station has gone under because the environment that made it work is no longer supporting it. You've now lost a channel.

I bet people watch plenty of channels and don't realize how much they watch them or that a particular show is on a channel. Can an Ã* la carte method sustain the future of television networks or will umbrella companies have to consolidate shows differently in order to make a buck? Will we see CBS split NCIS an NCIS: LA — two shows with high ratings — to different channels to maximize the number of stations you rent per month? Will they even go so far as to move a popular show across multiple channels week to week to maximize their return?

What people are wanting is to destroy something that will make it more expensive for customers unless you watch very little TV. Only those that want some select show or two on some cable network could possibly benefit from getting rid of the cable TV model.

Then you have consider how this will affect your cable interest costs. If your cable company loses 1/2 of it 100,000 TV paying customers they still have to pay all the networks the same amount of money. So do they double the costs of their loyal TV viewing customers? Not without losing more TV viewing customers that way. They have to jack the prices on your internet service, they now throttle users speeds, they now put in upper level caps. You're also using more internet than before because that is where your content is coming from. Can you blame them for trying to protect their business? I can't.

Or, the simple solution to all of that is supply and demand. If you lose viewers because they don't want to pay for all the channels they aren't watching, then maybe the cable carrier shouldn't be carrying the channel. You can say cable companies increase their rates to cover costs, I'd say they would decrease their costs to get in line with the new competition...on demand channels.

I think legacy cable carriers would offer an a la carte TV product like Apple supposedly will, or they will cut out all the fluff channels that drive the cost up but no one watches.
post #95 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

On the local end that could happen but how much bandwidth are we talking about since we're only talking one channel per TV that would be streaming and the cable companies can handle that already?

The difference is that the cable companies are not currently sending the data over IP protocol which is much more bandwidth intensive. Some homes will have several TVs on at the same time which might even exceed the bandwidth of their own wifi router in their house. Then multiply that scenario 1000 fold.

A perfect example of this is let's say I have a monster server with gigabit ethernet. I could handle a 100,000 full speed connections on my local network without breaking a sweat. But as soon as I try to deliver that data to 100,000 people on the Internet, the throughput drops by a significant factor because the Internet users cannot receive the data as fast as I can serve it due to their own bandwidth limitations.

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post #96 of 144
I only watch 4 channels -- CNBC and 3 Chinese Channels. It would save me $60 of cable fees if going internet only; or, I will take $4.99 per channel. Still save me $40, if I go by per channels only. Content providers/channel can set their own subscription price and Apple gets a 30% cut!
post #97 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

storage and computing power is cheap enough where you can put mini servers closer to the customers. you don't have to store all the content there, but stage the most used content on the local segment

Do you really think ISP are going to help Apple by doing that? And you cant do this with live feeds, you need the real IPTV architecture for this.

Apple must leave live content distribution to ISP and stay with fixed content streaming. But even that will choke the networks. imo ISP are just going to nerf anything Apple just like they do with peer2peer and kill Apple from the start.

imo Apple is not dumb enough to come up with something like this. A TV needs to be open and allow cable/Tel to deliver either real IPTV or QAM broadcast right into it using apps. It must be deploy with full cable/tel support or its going to fail from the start.

This is one case where a close down ecosystem just wont work.
post #98 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

On the local end that could happen but how much bandwidth are we talking about since we're only talking one channel per TV that would be streaming and the cable companies can handle that already?

This could be mitigated if Apple got with ISPs to allow last mile broadcasts but they would have to work with them which is something I think they have to do anyway, not work around or against them as has been stated here.

The ISPs would never go for that. They would protect their turf to the death.

Just using random numbers, right now the average house probably has five intent capable devices, (not including game boxess like PS3), and three TVs. Currently, the three TVs are using cable to watch TV. We will say they are using 1 mbs to do their thing. That's 3 mbs.

Now, we will say 5 mbs for each computer device. That's 25 mbs. We will add one game console, for another 5 mbs. So, currently, that's a total of 33 mbs of total bandwidth this house uses at maximum consumption, if they are all being used at the same time.

Now, let's go to an all Internet TV model. We still have our computers and PS3 consuming 30 mbs of data. But, now our TVs consume, we will say 7 mbs, because they have now become computers, so that's now a consumption rate of 21 mbs. So now just the Internet TVs alone are now almost consuming the equivalent of the entire household bandwidth! The new household now consumes 51 mbs of bandwidth. This household has almost doubled it's bandwidth by adopting Internet TV. Now, expand that to an entire ISP, and you can see where this is going. Then to an entire country, continent, then, eventually, to the net itself.....
post #99 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

On the local end that could happen but how much bandwidth are we talking about since we're only talking one channel per TV that would be streaming and the cable companies can handle that already?

This could be mitigated if Apple got with ISPs to allow last mile broadcasts but they would have to work with them which is something I think they have to do anyway, not work around or against them as has been stated here.

The way IPTV works it not just 1 channel per TV. They need a compress feed with all channels. This feed is used for PiP in the guide and for the first 8 secs when you choose a channel. When tuning in, you see a broadcast compress feed for the first seconds while in the background the set-top box setup the stream. After a few secs you start receiveng the high quality stream.

In the first month on my Bell Fibe subscription, you could see the transition between the broadcast and the stream feed after exactly 8 secs. Sometimes the stream was not ready even after 8 secs and the channel would then freeze. Thankfully they fixed that now.
post #100 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maecvs View Post

Now, let's go to an all Internet TV model. We still have our computers and PS3 consuming 30 mbs of data. But, now our TVs consume, we will say 7 mbs, because they have now become computers, so that's now a consumption rate of 21 mbs. So now just the Internet TVs alone are now almost consuming the equivalent of the entire household bandwidth! The new household now consumes 51 mbs of bandwidth. This household has almost doubled it's bandwidth by adopting Internet TV. Now, expand that to an entire ISP, and you can see where this is going. Then to an entire country, continent, then, eventually, to the net itself.....

I can give real numbers from a real IPTV setup. Bell needs 30 mbps for 3 HD and 4 SD and the live compress broadcast feed. My current capacity is 50 mbps that leaves 20 mbps max for my internet. The Bell modem can go up to 100 mbps but the cables between my house and the fiber optic node cant support more than 50 mbps. Fiber optic cant be more than 1000 feet away.

That 50 mbps is direct, its not shared. Once on the node I enter the fiber network. So I always have 20 mbps no matter what my neighboors are doing. Bell in investing billions of dollars to setup there network for IPTV and so far they only covered Montreal and Toronto. This is only doable in high population area.

post #101 of 144
I know the article mentioned IP delivery, but what if the data stream came down from a satellite, like Dish or DirecTV? All the channels would be in the stream and the "code" you entered into iTunes would let you watch what you paid for, just like satellite radio or that card in a satellite TV box.

I don't how many people would staple a dish to their houses, but I think this "stream" would be delivered everywhere much more easily. Mux it all together in one place, shoot it into the sky, and bounce it back to receivers.

If Apple depends on the cable company to deliver shows, the cable co's are gonna go nuts and increase rates on data plans.

Just a thought.
post #102 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilmnc View Post

If Apple depends on the cable company to deliver shows, the cable co's are gonna go nuts and increase rates on data plans.

The cable companies will not go nuts. They pay content providers based on subscribers. If cable subscribers cancelled, their content cost would go down. The high margin internet delivery revenue would still be there.
post #103 of 144
A lot of interesting comment in this thread.

I think the real issue is: News / Sports / Current events.

Having used my ATV2 extensively for a few months, I don't covet a fully "live" 24hr NBC, CBS, etc.

I already get the shows I want when I want by downloading them various ways (The Office, Dexter, etc.).

The only time I find my ATV lacks is when I wake up and just want to have the News on. The WSJ Live is okay but too business focused. I'm there with a 55" + ATV and don't want to have to search for a "show" to watch in the morning. I'd much rather just turn to a channel of programming.

Again, at night, I'll happily leave the "live" tv schedule to people who want to be inundated with commercials and enjoy my commercial free downloads.


Oh and also.. The idea of a 30-ish" iTV is hilarious!!! Who would buy a premium tv that small??!? The sizing should start at 50" and go to 60" & 70"
post #104 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

That's still 250 hours of 720p video. If your household really watches that much, then you're probably best off with cable. Apple's solutions so far serve the light watchers better than heavy users.

If you use Netflix, it's up to 1 GB per hour, or up to 2.3 GB per hour for HD. With children in the house also streaming HD vids from YouTube and Vimeo, 250 GB isn't that much.

Also, limits can be hit easily if you decide to puchase some TV shows. Through iTunes, I downloaded a season of an old TV show (no HD) and it alone was 30GB.
post #105 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

Its works with low volumes only... its impossible to implement with a large client base that would stream multiple HD feeds all the time. Distribution of feeds in volume requires an distributed architectures and only internet providers can do this...

This is the best explananation I could find on the wiki:

"Depending on the network architecture of the service provider, there are two main types of video server architectures that can be considered for IPTV deployment, centralized, and distributed.

The centralized architecture model is a relatively simple and easy to manage solution. For example, as all contents are stored in centralized servers, it does not require a comprehensive content distribution system. Centralized architecture is generally good for a network that provides relatively small VOD service deployment, has adequate core and edge bandwidth and has an efficient content delivery network (CDN).

Distributed architecture is just as scalable as the centralized model, however it has bandwidth usage advantages and inherent system management features that are essential for managing a larger server network. Operators who plan to deploy a relatively large system should therefore consider implementing a Distributed Architecture model right from the start. Distributed architecture requires intelligent and sophisticated content distribution technologies to augment effective delivery of multimedia contents over service provider's network.[3"

Somebody tell me how South Korea manages to have online gaming as the MAIN leisure time activity for the majority of households? Wish Apple would buy up Level3's glass pipes. It's a cryin shame this country is so throttled backwards by greed and ineptitude. If it went for Apple we would have little electronics innovation, that us USABLE.
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post #106 of 144
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Originally Posted by iVlad View Post

This might be Apple's hardest industry to crack. But back in 2001 people said same about digital music distribution. Slowly Apple got them all working out. I just really can't see a COAX cable running straight to the TV and not a cable box. That was like in the 90's. I am still shocked to see that option in modern TVs. A COAX in in the back. Weird.

Coax in the back indeed. We need glass fiber internet the last mile to our door. We need bullet trains to our major cities. We need electric automobile infrastructure. We need carbon fiber cars! Arrrgh was I born in the wrong decade or are we just slow? Shoulda had a lot of these things started in the 80's.
This is my lament.
How on earth did we send a man to the moon in the 60's ??!!??
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post #107 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Web code isn't the limitation, it's the way web pages are setup. iTunes Extras are much like DVD/BR menus. They are made to be accessed from a remote.

I just can't see myself typing in URLS or doing a Google search using the on-screen keyboard found in the AppleTV YouTube app. Siri could mitigate much of the effort but i don't think it will be enough and only solves half the problem. You still have the way pages are rendered for the web. Will Wikipedia make an AppleTV version of their site the way they made an iPhone version? Can they even do that seeing as how there are hundreds of links per average page?

Have you ever tried to use the net on a big TV? We have a mini hooked up, hoping that would be nice to read the net on a 55" monitor. Alas, no can do. Your eyes will go CRAZY. You can make the type larger simplify the page, it still doesn't matter. NTSC 's 29.95 fps is hard on your eyes when it comes to any amount of text. You will get a headache. Also, a big tv will have you turning your head like you are watching a ping pong match. I tried and tried, lousy idea, beyond just searching for a video item to watch. Now THAT is optimized for NTSC standards. I wonder if PAL would be any better but doesn't that also have rectangular pixels? There's definitely a big difference between a TV monitor and a computer monitor. I like my iPad first generation. Using it many hours a day for 2 years, still works great.
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post #108 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Do we not recall how difficult it was for Apple to get any movie and television studios on board after the AppleTV was demoed? Do we not remember NBC pulling out of iTunes Store for a year or so? Are we not seeing how they are still not wanting to give Apple any play by only allowing content to be bought (and sometimes rented) at high prices? So what exactly does Apple have to offer that will not negatively affect the networks solid, guaranteed deals with their local affiliates and distributors?

...

Apple has Siri.

And Siri has * the ability to ask the CableCo to pull up any ad that you watched previously.

And Siri has * the ability to find resellers for the products in the ad.

And Siri has * the ability to buy things that you request.


...And that should be of interest of everyone who participates in the content-delivery supply chain.


* Soon will have


Long story short:

The TV Tells you about things to buy...

Siri (along with the ATV) buys things at your behest.

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post #109 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by airnerd View Post

Please please please let this be true. I have wanted this since the first time I signed up for cable/satellite. If I could pay a price, even a freaking $1 per channel I would. I cut the chord just over a year ago and I love it, but I miss some of my old shows that Netflix hasn't picked up on yet. If I could have antenna plus a few channels like History, FX, Comedy Central, HGTV (for the wife), DIY, and some kid channels...I'd be in heaven.

ESPN will be paying almost $2 billion a year for Monday night football (NFL) with their new contract. I would doubt they would be willing to offer it for $1. They are getting almost $5 per subscriber. If a la carte programming was available, they would have to charge an amount that recoup the cost of programming and make a profit.
post #110 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post

ESPN will be paying almost $2 billion a year for Monday night football (NFL) with their new contract. I would doubt they would be willing to offer it for $1. They are getting almost $5 per subscriber. If a la carte programming was available, they would have to charge an amount that recoup the cost of programming and make a profit.

And how does ESPN monetize its investment?
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post #111 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by palomine View Post

Have you ever tried to use the net on a big TV? We have a mini hooked up, hoping that would be nice to read the net on a 55" monitor. Alas, no can do. Your eyes will go CRAZY. You can make the type larger simplify the page, it still doesn't matter. NTSC 's 29.95 fps is hard on your eyes when it comes to any amount of text. You will get a headache. Also, a big tv will have you turning your head like you are watching a ping pong match. I tried and tried, lousy idea, beyond just searching for a video item to watch. Now THAT is optimized for NTSC standards. I wonder if PAL would be any better but doesn't that also have rectangular pixels? There's definitely a big difference between a TV monitor and a computer monitor. I like my iPad first generation. Using it many hours a day for 2 years, still works great.

It's even worse than that... You commandeer the big screen so others can sit back and watch you type [badly] while searching for things that are of no interest to them... that the cannot read when you find them...

The way Apple will do it is this:

You will interact with the TV/ATV with you iPad -- the TV display will not show the interaction (unless you direct it to).

So while others are watching the programming, you are surfing, watching retrieved ads, shopping, ordering, buying, with Siri's help as needed.

...And others with iPads can do the same or watch another program/channel/movie to their iPad, as desired.
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post #112 of 144
You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the
existing model obsolete.

- Buckminster Fuller

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post #113 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

And how does ESPN monetize its investment?

They monetize it by subscriptions (per subscriber whether it is watched or not) and commercials.
post #114 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123 View Post

They monetize it by subscriptions (per subscriber whether it is watched or not) and commercials.

Commercials... Exactly!

Now, what if Apple could do a better job of delivering monetizing those commercials for both ESPN and the CableCos?
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post #115 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Greg] View Post

Eesh... Netflix told me I'd like Burn Notice as well... I watched a handful of episodes, and couldn't watch anymore. I thought it was a terrible show. Way too formulaic for me -- same story every episode with a few variations.

+1, has to be one of the worst shows around, eugh!
post #116 of 144
It sounds like something we'd all want but truth be told most of my favorite shows are shows I came across whilst channel surfing. The networks depend on shows being discovered. They'll fight tooth and nail to keep us with the programming we have now. And as for the Spanish channels, where else are we gonna see banging weather women?
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post #117 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

It's even worse than that... You commandeer the big screen so others can sit back and watch you type [badly] while searching for things that are of no interest to them... that the cannot read when you find them...

The way Apple will do it is this:

You will interact with the TV/ATV with you iPad -- the TV display will not show the interaction (unless you direct it to).

So while others are watching the programming, you are surfing, watching retrieved ads, shopping, ordering, buying, with Siri's help as needed.

...And others with iPads can do the same or watch another program/channel/movie to their iPad, as desired.

Yea because ipads are so inexpensive that I can buy one for every family member, what if I don't know a idevice?
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
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post #118 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Apple has Siri.

And Siri has * the ability to ask the CableCo to pull up any ad that you watched previously.

And Siri has * the ability to find resellers for the products in the ad.

And Siri has * the ability to buy things that you request.


...And that should be of interest of everyone who participates in the content-delivery supply chain.


* Soon will have


Long story short:

The TV Tells you about things to buy...

Siri (along with the ATV) buys things at your behest.


All that scares me
"Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example" Mark Twain
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #119 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by palomine View Post

Somebody tell me how South Korea manages to have online gaming as the MAIN leisure time activity for the majority of households? Wish Apple would buy up Level3's glass pipes. It's a cryin shame this country is so throttled backwards by greed and ineptitude. If it went for Apple we would have little electronics innovation, that us USABLE.

Because they've had 100 mbps for over 10 yrs now.
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"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #120 of 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX View Post

Web code isn't the limitation, it's the way web pages are setup. iTunes Extras are much like DVD/BR menus. They are made to be accessed from a remote.

I just can't see myself typing in URLS or doing a Google search using the on-screen keyboard found in the AppleTV YouTube app. Siri could mitigate much of the effort but i don't think it will be enough and only solves half the problem.

It doesn't matter if you are looking for web pages, apps, TV shows or movies on your TV, it is all basically the same search problem and we do have that quote from Steve saying that he has solved this.

Quote:
You still have the way pages are rendered for the web. Will Wikipedia make an AppleTV version of their site the way they made an iPhone version? Can they even do that seeing as how there are hundreds of links per average page?

Obviously Wikipedia is a site that won't work well on a TV as it is very text heavy (you are better off using your iPad); but for sites which are primarily video, it is pretty easy to make a webpage designed to be viewed on a TV and controlled with a basic remote.

Here are a few examples:
http://www.youtube.com/leanback/
http://www.tbs.com/leanback/
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/gtv/

You can even try them out on your computer, just ignore the mouse and just use the cursor keys and enter/return key.
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